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[Sempiternity]

utilt rest best combo in the game

 

[clubbadubba]

Yea back in the day me and my friends always thought jiggs was the worst character. casual players only think characters are good if they have good smashes or grabs.

 

[ballin4life]

jiggs has leet grabs tho

 

[jimmyjoe]

I remember the days of judging characters on there smashes and grabs, and sometimes their upB.

 

[asianaussie]

my friend thought jiggs was bad

then i 5-stocked his pika using only n-air

now he thinks jiggs is broken

 

[Sempiternity]

i remember the first time i used jiggs

my buddy used fox and snickered to himself and said, "really?" when i picked jiggs

he was not laughing five stocks later

 

[Battlecow]

Jiggs appreciation:

1. Have no idea how to use jiggs; think jiggs is one of the worst characters in the game because who-knows-why but she doesn't have those hard-to-pin-down qualities that make ness and kirby so good

2. Someone who knows how to play jiggs ****s you up horribly because you can't DI. You get ***** by any combination of fthrow, dair, utilt, uair, and rest. This person may be much better than you or at around your level, but you're nonetheless convinced that jiggs is one of the most OP characters in the game

3. You learn to DI, so Jiggs' combos become less threatening, and other characters' slightly-more-complex combos get more threatening as you learn how to use them. You now know that jiggs is sorta meh.

4. You take LSD mixed with Capitan Tavo's Semen and become one with the game, unlocking all of its secrets and learning how to do the reverse aerial drop-canceled pivot-rollout singrest, and you know that Jiggs is the best character in the world.

 

[Sangoku]

Play Bear's jiggly and notice how DI is useless...

Also jiggs is good since she's better than fox .

 

[KeroKeroppi]

lol.^^
hey guys. So im reallly goddanm board and have been reading some more of the tecnical threads. By technical i mean, threads that actually brake down the game and take a look at its true nature.. uhh.. that sounded dumb, i dont know how to word it. Example: Sheild thread by sangoku.
ANYWAY,
i see people talking about hittboxxes and frames and all this advanced stuff that would require much extensive research. What i mean is that noone can simply look at any given attack, forexample, and say "hmm. that attack has X frames and X amount of hitboxxes that take up X amount of space".
blehh. im bad at wording what im trying to say. im sure you guys know what i mean.

where are people gettting this information?
because surely they arent doing some of these calculations themselves ,are they?

 

[asianaussie]

slow things down, do it frame by frame TAS style, possibly (probably) with a hitbox cheat

 

[Sempiternity]

It's all TAS. I don't know **** about that, but there are TAS input plugins that allow you to slow down the game and go frame by frame. This allows you to look at each individual attack and movement to count the frames. Combine that with hitboxes and you can look at each move in depth.

As for other characteristics like character speed, air acceleration, weight, etc., I have no idea where those numbers came from. I'd assume they're all relative to each other, so you'd pick a character, give him a "1" in a category and then measure other characters based on that. I'd imagine those numbers are ratios or percentages found by, again, counting frames.

This could all be wrong, as I have no clue what the method was for obtaining the numbers in the following link. I suppose if I knew Japanese (not Google translate), I could figure out how those values were found and what exactly they mean.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/M_AbilityAll.html

There's some pretty cool **** here, like shield radii and character "material."

What I really want to know is what the row third from the bottom is all about. Falcon has a low value, while Samus has high, which could mean something in relation to combo ability........

Sangoku or somebody could probably shed some more light on this.

 

[asianaussie]

my limited japanese ability suggests it means (small) combo links(?) F, so i suppose it definitely has something to do with combos

 

[KeroKeroppi]

As for other characteristics like character speed, air acceleration, weight, etc., I have no idea where those numbers came from. I'd assume they're all relative to each other, so you'd pick a character, give him a "1" in a category and then measure other characters based on that. I'd imagine those numbers are ratios or percentages found by, again, counting frames.

i thought the samething too. I didnt even know TAS could do that. im still unsure of all its majic and wonders. as far as i was concerned, it allowed people to go back and retry things they may have messed up on durring gametime. Maybe requiring some sort of playback option. Like, in a btt run, saving every second to ensure perfection. (lol i dont even know if it can actually do that, i read that on google some number of months ago after freaking out on some guys youtube channel about, After he posted a TAS perfect run vid, how he was trying to trick the general public into thinking he was some sort of smash god when really he was just a cheatting *******. i than googled tas and was verry embarassed.)
Anyway, makes sence.

Much is cleared up now. thanks so much guys

 

[clubbadubba]

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nintendo.co.jp%2Fn01%2Fn64%2Fsoftware%2Fnus_p_nalj%2Fsmash%2FM_AbilityAll.html

google translate put it all in english, but still not that great because something must be lost in translation in the descriptions below. The one you're talking about is Small combo connection F. Anything with F in it is some amount of frames I think. Description doesn't make sense though

 

[KeroKeroppi]

whatt refers to a characters "floatyness"on the chart?

 

[clubbadubba]

I believe that would be max speed drop y and max speed dive y. drop being regular and dive being fastfalled.

 

[M!nt]

Types of leather? wtf

 

[Sempiternity]

Pretty sure heaviness is how easy a character is to combo horizontally, while floatiness is ease of comboing vertically.

Samus is a great example; very heavy, but also very floaty. This means you can string her along horizontally no problem (remember those Prince/Alancitu Yoshi Nair combos?), but you'll have a lot of trouble comboing vertically. Falcon can barely sustain a Uair chain.

That's the most basic description, and I'm sure there's more to it.

 

[The Star King]

That looks like antdgar's chart

And those are debatable secondary effects of floatiness and heaviness. More weight just means you suffer less knockback and less hitstun, and floatiness is just falling speed.

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah, looks like samus has a fundamentally different... something than the rest of the cast. I think "leather" is "skin" there, so she has a metal suit on, and it makes hitting her somehow a bit different than hitting anyone else

interesting.

Also **** jiggs' shield.

 

[The Star King]

^Wut? No wai

 

[Battlecow]

Hey, it's just my guess. I can see "skin" being mistranslated as leather, because leather is essentially skin. So samus has "iron" skin as opposed to "meat." What does that mean in game terms? You tell me, but it's significant enough to be on the chart. It means something, that's for sure.

 

[SSBPete]

wouldnt this be for the japanese game? which is slightly different

 

[Battlecow]

True, true. We should keep that in mind.

 

[jimmyjoe]

I checked to see if it was a sound effect thing, Since the japanese game hit sound effects seem "meaty" to me, but samus has the same sound effects as every other character.

 

[M!nt]

Maybe it is just an appearance thing, don't know why they'd bother putting it down though.

 

[Sempiternity]

From my Google translation, it looks like skin is a more visual thing. Samus has more "sparks" when she's hit than other characters.

And antdgar got his data from this chart. This is the official Nintendo (J) website.

 

[The Star King]

That means it's inaccurate for (U) because many things such as falling speeds were changed >_>

 

[Sempiternity]

!!!!

That didn't even occur to me! Well, I dunno about you, but the actual numbers are largely meaningless to me, and only serve as a way to loosely compare the characters. I can't imagine things were changed too much between characters from [J] to , so the general idea and order should still be applicable.

And babel fish seems to say that when "meat" characters are hit, it's more of a splash water droplet effect (blood?) than Samus's armor, which creates a more rigid spark effect.

 

[The Star King]

OK I tried hitting Samus compared to other characters and I seriously can't see any difference lol

 

[Sempiternity]

**** it.

seems like a silly category anyway

 

[Battlecow]

OK I tried hitting Samus compared to other characters and I seriously can't see any difference lol

Obviously we'd have noticed if it was something big and easy to spot

 

[KeroKeroppi]

i dont understand the confusiann.
on the google translated versian, it just says that all other characters are meat and shes iron.. than it goes on to explain exactly what "type of leather" means further down on the sight.
??

 

[M!nt]

i dont understand the confusiann.
on the google translated versian, it just says that all other characters are meat and shes iron.. than it goes on to explain exactly what "type of leather" means further down on the sight.
??

kero....




























come on

 

[SSBPete]

hahahahahaha @ sight

 

[KeroKeroppi]

kero.... is the man!!! i dont think ive ever met someone has inredible as him. soo amazing in everyway. everynight i think to myself about how much of an honor it would be to meet him.



























come on and teach me your ways of beeing the coolest guy on planet earth!!! i really want to be you. you're the best.

awww. mint<3
that was so sweet

mi spelleng iz dat ov eh therd geater. END EYE DUE KNOT CEAR.

 

[Sangoku]

Even in your quote hijacking you've made typos... In fact we could quote many of your posts to point out spelling mistakes disturbing non-english speaker like me (ie homonyms).

 

[asianaussie]

kero is actually a backroom troll account

is luigi's tornado hitbox actually really thin prior to the final hit?

 

[Sempiternity]

i dont understand the confusiann.
on the google translated versian, it just says that all other characters are meat and shes iron.. than it goes on to explain exactly what "type of leather" means further down on the sight.
??

Ignoring what appears to be a Google translated post, please Kero, help clear up the confusion and tell us what the site is trying to say.

 

[The Star King]

Why would you make fun of Kero's spelling when there's so many other things you can mock

That's just lame guys