Arle Nadja, Puyo Popper Extraordinaire pops into Smash Bros.! (New Management!)

Which Puyo protagonist would you prefer for Smash?


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StarDustStorm

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Despite Masamitsu Niitani not having the rights to Puyo Puyo whom is now owned by Sega, I still think Sakurai would still ask some things about Arle since Niitani was the one who created the series and may ask for some advice on Arle. Sakurai is the guy who goes into the original sources after all.
We know he has gotten in contact with people who had involvement with a video game series before just to do some things for Smash, those small touches is also what makes Smash Bros. special from a historical perspective.
 
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Ridrool64

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That's a possibility. I could see them going for a bunch of Madou Monogatari callbacks, albeit as many as SEGA will let happen. She'll presumably have orange hair in most of her colors, for instance: brown would be available for her classic color and Doppel, assuming she has the latter. However, since Bayonetta does have hair color changes, they may get more adaptive than that.

I've written up a piece on what I think Arle's chances are. I'm saving it for Arle Day on RTC (whenever that is), but it's pretty glowing.

...yeah, I really wish I'd saved Puyo Puyo Champions for this post.

Take your bets, is it eSports localized? The next game? A rename of eSports? Or something else?

[I really like talking in this thread and wish it didn't go dark so often.]
 

Arle Nadja

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It's noteworthy that Doppel did not have a different hair color (or eye color) prior to Puyo Puyo Quest. Noteworthy because most Quest redesigns have been dropped when returning to the main series. Like, almost every single character got a minor or major redesign in Quest and we have seen like zero of them return, other than the characters originating from Quest of course.

I also can't see Sakurai implementing a character whose entire moveset is based on tossing colorful blobs at people as some fans have speculated. It strikes me as a bit monotonous theme wise, so we'd likely see some of her actual spells come back into focus, of which she has quite a lot of beyond what she's shouting about in modern Puyo games. The list is actually humongous. You can read it here, though it is in Japanese. She's the very first character on the list.
 
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Ridrool64

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I imagine that the moveset is going to be quite varied, too. She's obviously not going to be "Stage Control: the Character" in my eyes, and that feels more like a job for Lip. Arle would be the offensive counterpart to Lip.

Still, the main 6 are going to be the most prevalent abilities she has, and there are only a few special move slots.

----

Speaking of Arle movesets...

This is a work done by GamefreakDX on Deviantart. It's another take on Arle's moveset. I like it a fair bit, even if it is different from my own interpretation.
 

Looma

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I feel that Arle's greatest boon that gives her an edge over her fellow puzzle game compatriots is her absolutely gigantic pool of spells in addition to Puyo's competitive game mechanics that could be potentially translated really well into Smash. No matter what moveset Sakurai would design for her, it would be unique and unexpected. That's fantastic as far as bringing something new to the table goes.

May I propose the Tower from Puyo Puyo Fever 2 as her home stage? That one looks the most striking to me visually, and I feel that a taller stage would be fitting for Puyo Puyo.
 

Ridrool64

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To be honest, even I have trouble coming up with a Puyo stage. But the tower sounds like a good idea.

There's a well of potential inside this magician that I can't imagine that she didn't blip on Sakurai's radar the last time. It was probably just "Not popular enough outside Japan" that was the roadblock she couldn't overcome.

Short of a datamine implying Tails or Eggman are in, I think this is our time. We're the underdog, Arle would be massively hype to us and in Japan while having already introduced herself to the west pretty recently. I just feel like everything's come together. I think this is how a bunch of other fandoms have felt.
 

Looma

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This could definitely make for a really nice looking stage with some embellishments to make it more colorful. I wish I could find a rip of the Tower background from PPT as that is a way better render than this one.

Just add some platforms and pretty it up. I picture the actual platforms being structured similarly to Shadow Moses Island (sans the destructible spotlights of course), with two "main" platforms, and some smaller platforms complimenting them. A pit at each side instead of having walk offs. It should definitely be taller than it is wide. and perhaps some Puyo slowly falling from the sky that can be used as platforms off the sides?


One "Sakurai touch" that would be brilliant is if the new platforms textures are referenced from some classic Tsuu playing fields like these two.
 

Ridrool64

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I've been thinking about Arle's chances a lot. They're very, very turbulent in my eyes, and it depends on when exactly the DLC statement started.

The more recently the DLC was chosen, the better. Anything past 2017 and she's almost a lock. If it came too soon, though, things get very dire for our magicienne. (Which is a word, apparently.) While I assume she did very well on the Japanese ballot (Bayonetta's results weren't mentioned from Japan, meaning that another SEGA character beat her for sure) we don't have any definitive evidence.

She's not disconfirmed, but the worst case scenario (Tails/Eggman) and the second worst case scenario (Jeanne as a unique) might be. If Spirits are disconfirmations... we can get hyped. If they are not... panic.
 
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NukeA6

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She's not disconfirmed, but the worst case scenario (Tails/Eggman) and the second worst case scenario (Jeanne as a unique) might be. If Spirits are disconfirmations... we can get hyped. If they are not... panic.
Jeanne unique? LOL She's almost a carbon copy of Bayonetta in the games (or at least the first one she is). If she was gonna be in, she'd be an echo and it's too late for her. Unless you think AiAi has very high chances, there is no competition for the Sega spot, if we're getting Arle at all.
 

StarDustStorm

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Jeanne unique? LOL She's almost a carbon copy of Bayonetta in the games (or at least the first one she is). If she was gonna be in, she'd be an echo and it's too late for her. Unless you think AiAi has very high chances, there is no competition for the Sega spot, if we're getting Arle at all.
Doesn't most Sega IPs that isn't Sonic appeals more to people outside of Japan? I think Puyo Puyo bears the distinction of having more appeal in Japan than in places like America or Europe. When people come into discussion of complaining about Sonic being the only IP that Sega produces nowdays, people seem to skip Puyo Puyo despite Tetris being released recently. I know that PP has many JP-only releases though.
 

Looma

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Seeing as how NoJ apparently compiled (heh) the list of newcomers, I'd wager that there's an inevitable hometown bias. Arle does very well on Japanese polls, so she's likely at the very least been looked at. It's also worth noting that in Japan, Arle had more vocal support in the ballot era than both Cloud and Bayonetta if that old Source Gaming chart is to be believed (which so far it's been incredibly reliable).

Arle's not quite the front runner, but she's certainly in play. Her and Jibanyan are possible sleeper agents. It all comes down to whether Sakurai liked them.
 

StarDustStorm

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Seeing as how NoJ apparently compiled (heh) the list of newcomers, I'd wager that there's an inevitable hometown bias. Arle does very well on Japanese polls, so she's likely at the very least been looked at. It's also worth noting that in Japan, Arle had more vocal support in the ballot era than both Cloud and Bayonetta if that old Source Gaming chart is to be believed (which so far it's been incredibly reliable).

Arle's not quite the front runner, but she's certainly in play. Her and Jibanyan are possible sleeper agents. It all comes down to whether Sakurai liked them.
Smash has a long history of NOT including "not released in Japan" content from games: Kid Icarus GB was not represented or mentioned at all outside of the Chronicle in the Smash Series, (not canon in Uprising either) and
Mike Jones is not even found as a Spirit in Smash Ultimate and I believe characters like Spyro have a low chance of appearing in any form, I don't know if Activision will give Sakurai the Square treatment and only include the Crash Fighter Spirit if he's in the game. (Only very few Spyro games released in Japan and the Remasters has no localization (such as Japanese dub) and his series is American developed unlike Metroid and Castlevania.)
 
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NukeA6

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If non-fighter spirits not being DLC is true, Adeleine has now become Arle's biggest competition. She's even a little magical girl in her own way and isn't actually unknown unless you don't play any Kirby games.
 

Ridrool64

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Not really? Adeleine is a totally different kind of character. Her attacks would be based around art, and probably take lots of notes from Star Allies. Arle's a straight up mage, with her own set of spells, so I doubt that Adeleine is much of a threat, or even competition at all.

Only characters we have/had to worry about are Tails and Eggman. Nobody else is bad news, except another new SEGA series character, which is extremely unlikely as none of them perform as well against Puyo Puyo. Only one of those to watch out for is AiAi.
 

StarDustStorm

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Not really? Adeleine is a totally different kind of character. Her attacks would be based around art, and probably take lots of notes from Star Allies. Arle's a straight up mage, with her own set of spells, so I doubt that Adeleine is much of a threat, or even competition at all.

Only characters we have/had to worry about are Tails and Eggman. Nobody else is bad news, except another new SEGA series character, which is extremely unlikely as none of them perform as well against Puyo Puyo. Only one of those to watch out for is AiAi.
Sonic characters are substantially more popular than Puyo characters, and there's a chance that they would want to address the issue with a lack of new Sonic characters as DLC, but there's really only Eggman or Metal Sonic who can bring in a stage that is identified with them. So even a new Sonic character is pretty unlikely.

If they were to put Adeleine in Smash, I'm pretty sure a lot of Bandana Dee fans would be upset. Adeleine's issue is that she was an update DLC for Star Allies which is like about 9 months before Ultimate is released.

If Arle ends up being a future DLC Mii costume in Ultimate, then its pretty much over for her to be playable this iteration. Though it would be good if the Mii costume to come with Spirits from the Puyo series, proving the series as a form of representation.
 
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Ridrool64

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Oh, speaking of Mii Costumes, obviously Rulue would be a Brawler and Schezo would be a swordfighter, but (let's pretend Arle doesn't get hit with it) who would be Gunner? Directly assuming Puyo will get DLC Mii Costumes, I know, but I'm actually curious.
 

Flyboy

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Oh, speaking of Mii Costumes, obviously Rulue would be a Brawler and Schezo would be a swordfighter, but (let's pretend Arle doesn't get hit with it) who would be Gunner? Directly assuming Puyo will get DLC Mii Costumes, I know, but I'm actually curious.
Ringo But With A Realistic Gun
 

StarDustStorm

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Oh, speaking of Mii Costumes, obviously Rulue would be a Brawler and Schezo would be a swordfighter, but (let's pretend Arle doesn't get hit with it) who would be Gunner? Directly assuming Puyo will get DLC Mii Costumes, I know, but I'm actually curious.
Final Fantasy VII did get a Mii Costume released at the same time when Cloud debuted as a fighter, it was Chocobo which was actually seen in Melee's JP polls, lol. I'm pretty sure Puyo hs no rights issues except for maybe making remixes specifically, they've been stingy on Sonic remixes and making Puyo videos in Japan on YouTube. I don't think there was any new Bayo remixes this iteration.
 
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Ridrool64

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Issue is, Tee is owned in part by the Tetris Company: in Puyo Puyo Quest, he has no voiced lines, and his cards cannot be recorded (which goes in line with most other crossover characters). So we'd need both SEGA and the Tetris Company to be in Smash for Tee. It's sorta like Geno, if you want a picture of what's going on.

My own answer has changed anyway. It'd be Klug, firing "Magic" out of the Record of Sealing.

I've already posted my thoughts on music from Puyo way back when (and it hasn't changed), but curious: what do the new supporters want to hear?
 

Looma

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I have a VERY LONG list of Puyo music that I would want in Smash should Arle grace the series with her presence. Obviously Theme and Final of Puyo Puyo should be in there (ideally new arrangements, Sega pls), but there's also a lot more. Here's a snippet of my personal favorites.


What should Arle's victory theme be? A snippet from Victory of Puyo Puyo?
 

Luigifan18

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So, has anyone here heard of the upcoming Puyo Puyo x PQ2 crossover event?

Also, because Persona seems to be in an indirect battle with Shovel Knight over which series will have the most random unrequested crossovers/cameos, Japan is getting a PQ2 Puyo Puyo crossover.

View attachment 179925
Because, um. SEGA?
So... show of hands. Who wants to see Satan making a complete fool of himself over Arle wearing one of the more fanservicey Phantom Thieves outfits?
 

Ridrool64

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IDK What'll happen. All I know is that Rebecca with a gun is probably the peak as far as I'm concerned. Also I saw a tweet with Ms. Accord in a Popoi suit, not kidding, don't know if that's real.

I have a lot of words for Joker day on RTC, but one thing I will say is that I do not fear Joker the way I do Tails or Eggman, since at least it's another new series.
 

Notshane

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Some characters were allowed costumes that changed their entire design, so I have high hopes Arle will have both of her designs playable.

As long as Sticker of Puyo Puyo gets into the game, I don't care what other songs they add from the series. It's just more of a bonus for me by that point.

And about earlier with the rep argument, I realized that earlier with Konami and it makes me have very high hopes for Goemon showing up as DLC more than ever. Metal Gear, Bomberman and Castlevania all became represented in some way, but Goemon is now among their last well known characters. His stage could be very unique, filled to the brim with catchy music from his N64 appearances and his moveset would be incredible, with Impact making quite a show as a Final Smash. Lastly, every game that was localized of his series did very well overseas, with the reason it stopped being made primarily involving the general neglect of Konami themselves toward the franchise.

If Takamaru somehow had a chance before, even without relevance, Goemon has very high chances. I hope for both Arle and Goemon to end up in the series at least once, and well I don't have very high hopes Arle will end up as DLC, I strangely have a newfound hope for Goemon due to thinking of all the Konami reps that have now gotten their chance into the series. Simply means Goemon is the last one left and I very much look forward to him if he barely makes it as one of the last or maybe even the first one announced.

I already got one of my wishlist characters last summer, so I don't tend to come off as greedy anymore with my requests. If none of these guys made it, I still would be satisfied with Ultimate. They added an obscure choice from my list and with my favorite song from the series, in the exact remix I wanted, ending up as one of their songs.

More miniscule things I would have liked would be, I suppose, Cocoa Caves (or Metal from Air Ride) from Super Star and Over the Hills from Return to Dream Land. Basically some more song choices. And I have no faith they will show up in a patch, so they basically lost as soon as the soundtrack was leaked.

If Arle or Goemon end up as DLC, I would never ask for anything again for Smash, let alone buy another entry after Ultimate, knowing full well those two would not return as characters. And if both ended up in Ultimate (assuming Ultimate goes about the same DLC path as Nintendo's "successful games" list did, such as Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey, which were confirmed to be getting more DLC due to their success a month ago) at the end, I believe I would be hospitalized for an unknown period of time due to how much adrenaline that would flow into my body over it.

Oh yeah, have not been posting here very often at all cause of life and all. Figured I'd just share a crap ton of opinions on this post all at once well I have some time to be here. And yes, I am debating getting Puyo Puyo eSports because it actually has some of my favorite characters from the series in it this time around that were absent from Puyo Puyo Tetris. But, the main drawback for me is it not having a retail release. Oh, and the fact that it feels like the most copy and paste entry to date, using the same exact design in its menus as Puyo Puyo Tetris and only differentiating itself with a bit more variety in the gameplay and loads more characters that we simply wish ended up in Puyo Puyo Tetris. It's a hard one for me. Would be easier if it was a bit cheaper.
 

Ridrool64

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All the wind at my steam, all the things that I tried to show, all the support... as far as I'm concerned, after tonight, it's more-or-less gone to waste.

Can't say I'm honestly looking forward to Joker. He's the SEGA rep, not us.
 

StarDustStorm

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All the wind at my steam, all the things that I tried to show, all the support... as far as I'm concerned, after tonight, it's more-or-less gone to waste.

Can't say I'm honestly looking forward to Joker. He's the SEGA rep, not us.
Arle's detriment for her is that they still have to localize more games. Puyo Puyo Tetris isn't enough to set credentials and its only short term if there's only one game being released consistently only in Japan almost once a decade. It makes it feel like Puyo is dormant outside of Japan by leaving the games there. As long as Puyo games aren't being released worldwide at the same time, its not going to imporve her credentials enough to be in the game.

I'm pretty excited for Joker, even if I didn't play the game series.
 
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warelander

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Looking forward to Joker, Arle was my most wanted third party character, but I was honestly never terribly optimistic about her getting in.
 

Ridrool64

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Well there is one way we could still happen.

We get a fourth Capcom character. Then, our chances come back to life.

Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright, Amaterasu, now is the time to support them as well as Arle.

Edit: At this point I no longer consider Arle a lost cause at all, regardless of Joker happening.

Edit 2: Here's what I think her palettes would actually look like. Maybe the hair and eye colors wouldn't change [except for the last non-alt], but I digress.
arle colors ver 2.png

Arle (SEGA) - Amitie - Ringo - Ally - Satan - Arle (Compile/Minna) | Doppelganger Arle | Dark Arle

Edit 3: Amitie, too, deserves some love.
amitie alternate palettes2.png

Amitie - Raffina - Sig - Lidelle - Klug - Tarutaru - Accord | Popping Amitie/Fever 1 (considered Red, but she has a staff)

Sure, we aren't getting Echo Fighters anymore, but Amitie deserves love too. That being said, she didn't come out quite as nicely as Arle did.

Edit 4: I guess there just isn't much to discuss.
 

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KMDP

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Just wanted to pop into this thread to repost something I posted in the Main Discussion thread, a concept for a moveset for Arle.
Speaking of hypothetical character movesets, I've been mulling over one for Arle Nadja since Christmas Day (when I got Puyo Puyo Tetris).
The thought process I went through for Arle is: "the core facet of Puyo Puyo is setting up combos to deal lots of 'damage' to your opponents; how can you represent that in Arle's moveset?". Well, that's actually pretty easy.

Smash already has a "combo meter" built into the game (which you can only see in the Training Mode). My idea is that Arle's Special moves power up when you build up a large combo.

Arle's Neutral Special changes depending on the last registered combo number you got. While I've provided numbers, they are more to show the tiers of power, and don't (necessarily) represent how much combo you need to activate it.

1: "Hah!" - A Generic slap, does very little damage. Arle will use this if you haven't built up a combo yet, or only have a combo of one.
2: "Fire" - A Fire Ball, flies in a straight line for a short distance.
3: "Ice Storm" - A stream of freezing Ice Magic (functionally the same as Ice Climbers' Blizzard attack).
4: "Diacute" - Temporarily boosts the power of Arle's basic attack.
5: "Brain Dumbed" - Dazes the opponent, also does a lot of shield damage.
6: "Jugem" - Fires a slow, but very powerful ball of energy, if the ball hits, it has power on par with Warlock Punch and Flare Blade.
7: "Bayoen" - A blast of flame that instantly breaks shields, it is also very powerful; those who survive the hit are Dazed anyway.

Side Special: "Heedon" - Puts the opponent to sleep, the duration the enemy stays asleep is determined by Arle's Combo Count and not the amount of damage they have.
Up Special: Big Bang Warp - A warp spell, the distance Arle warps (and power of the explosion left in her wake) increase with higher Combos.
Down Special: Garbage Puyo - Slams down with Garbage Puyos, the amount dropped (and therefore the range and power) depends on her Combo Count. She only drops one with 0 or 1 Combo.

The game stores Arle's highest current combo until a Special Move is used, at which point the number returns to zero. Arle's Combo is shown by her player icon (just like all other Gimmicks).

Most of Arle's regular attacks utilize Carbuncle and/or Puyos in some way, Carbuncle isn't considered a separate entity like Luma is to Rosalina. I don't know enough about Madou Monogatari and Puyo Puyo to go into further detail, and I'm stumped as to what her Final Smash could be.
Man, typing this up took me 50 minutes.
Thought it was best placed here. :laugh:
 

Captain Shwampy

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Despite Masamitsu Niitani not having the rights to Puyo Puyo whom is now owned by Sega, I still think Sakurai would still ask some things about Arle since Niitani was the one who created the series and may ask for some advice on Arle. Sakurai is the guy who goes into the original sources after all.
We know he has gotten in contact with people who had involvement with a video game series before just to do some things for Smash, those small touches is also what makes Smash Bros. special from a historical perspective.
That's actually a main rule for sega chracters
You have to get permission from the original creators and their get there vision correctly

In All Stars Racing Transformed SUMO Digital had to call up the Skies of Arcadia and Panzer Dragoon creators to get permission to use the stages and Vyse as a character. They had to fix how the rocks in the Panzer Dragoon track looked multiple times until the creator approved it.

In a worst case, the Sakura Wars creator refused to have characters from it in Super Robot Wars since they didn't feel it fit
 
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Ridrool64

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So I was interested in checking out on Twitter how much the Japanese supported Arle. To do this, I looked up "Aruru" and "Suma Bora" (in Japanese lettering, so アルルスマブラ) and I was kinda floored.

While it's not like all of Nippon demanded their precious Arle, none of them seemed to lose faith or hope in her after Joker, not even on the day of his confirmation nor the day after, which is interesting considering the west seemed to do so. This only dooms her further, so rather than calling it quits (even for this round), I've decided to keep on fighting. And one day, maybe it'll happen.

That being said, there were a lot of "forecasts" as the translation machine called them, not so much specifically "Arle for Smash". Even if they don't want her outright, I find it inspiring, or at least interesting, that they didn't see Joker as any bad news at all. If anything, they might've seen him as good news.

I intend to go on Tumblr and Pixiv to see how many people desire her for the game there. There's likely going to be overlap, yes, but it's still Arle support.
 

Ridrool64

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In more Puyo Popping news, SEGA AGES will indeed have Puyo Puyo 1 and 2. Puyo 1 is about to launch in Japan, soon, as far as SEGA will tell us. Puyo 1 is also going to get a western release for sure: presumably, 2 will follow.

And since Dreamcast games are apparently eligible for AGES, we might see Puyo 4 and Fever make it too.

First acknowledgement.| Official website of Puyo 2 for SEGA Ages (release unknown).
 
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So I was interested in checking out on Twitter how much the Japanese supported Arle. To do this, I looked up "Aruru" and "Suma Bora" (in Japanese lettering, so アルルスマブラ) and I was kinda floored.

While it's not like all of Nippon demanded their precious Arle, none of them seemed to lose faith or hope in her after Joker, not even on the day of his confirmation nor the day after, which is interesting considering the west seemed to do so. This only dooms her further, so rather than calling it quits (even for this round), I've decided to keep on fighting. And one day, maybe it'll happen.

That being said, there were a lot of "forecasts" as the translation machine called them, not so much specifically "Arle for Smash". Even if they don't want her outright, I find it inspiring, or at least interesting, that they didn't see Joker as any bad news at all. If anything, they might've seen him as good news.

I intend to go on Tumblr and Pixiv to see how many people desire her for the game there. There's likely going to be overlap, yes, but it's still Arle support.
That's a good attitude to have. The more Sega-related characters to get in, the more chances characters from other series are elligible, since barriers are reduced.
 

Looma

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Yeah I'm not really big on this fan rule about "equal" representation from 3rd parties. Some companies just flat out have more that they're willing to contribute than others (screw you Square Enix). Favoritism be damned, I just don't think the character's origin is an issue internally with the Smash team. If anything, I think the amount of Sega and Capcom content in currently make it MORE likely to see even more from them.

Also technically, Bayonetta is more of a Platinum rep and Joker is more of an Atlus rep than both being purely Sega. Negotiations within negotiations, oh my.
 
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Yeah I'm not really big on this fan rule about "equal" representation from 3rd parties. Some companies just flat out have more that they're willing to contribute than others (screw you Square Enix). Favoritism be damned, I just don't think the character's origin is an issue internally with the Smash team. If anything, I think the amount of Sega and Capcom content in currently make it MORE likely to see even more from them.

Also technically, Bayonetta is more of a Platinum rep and Joker is more of an Atlus rep than both being purely Sega. Negotiations within negotiations, oh my.
To be fair, Sega flat-out owns Atlus. I'll give you Platinum though, seeing how particular their situation is.

What does confuse me is Bamco of all companies holding back on more characters, despite being onboard from the onset. I doubt it'd be for a reason as silly as "Bamco bias!" either. All we know is faithfully translating a Tekken character's gameplay into Smash would be a hassle.
 
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In more Puyo Popping news, SEGA AGES will indeed have Puyo Puyo 1 and 2. Puyo 1 is about to launch in Japan, soon, as far as SEGA will tell us. Puyo 1 is also going to get a western release for sure: presumably, 2 will follow.

And since Dreamcast games are apparently eligible for AGES, we might see Puyo 4 and Fever make it too.

First acknowledgement.| Official website of Puyo 2 for SEGA Ages (release unknown).
Not only that, but the western release of Puyo 1? It's supposedly going to have an ENGLISH DUB. The only thing is, I don't know if they're going to use the version that had SO many name changes, or if it's a whole new English dub provided by the cast used in Puyo Tetris (i.e. Erica Mendez, Kira Buckland, Ben Lepley, Xander Mobus, etc.).
 
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