Arle Nadja, Puyo Popper Extraordinaire pops into Smash Bros.! (New Management!)

Which Puyo protagonist would you prefer for Smash?


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Ridrool64

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Well, think of it like this. It's a chart that has four paths.
Arle has an Assist Trophy in the base game: Win, publicity, a few more western games.
Arle is one of the remaining fighters in the base game: Win, publicity, way more western games.
Arle ends up DLC later on with a big enough push: Win, publicity, some more western games.
The only losing scenario is her total absence once the DLC cycle ends. With how she did according to the Japanese ballot poll by Source Gaming, an Assist Trophy role is basically a lock, however playability is still in the cards.

But why do I keep faith when even most of my fellow supporters have a far grimmer outlook, let alone people who don't know of her? I mean, most people would say that she's not happening, and I understand that can really affect you. But...
  • I didn't want to say anything about the background of the direct since I'd just be stealing Skull Kid's thunder, but there's a blue book, green couch, red pillow, and yellow and purple chairs. Now I am pretty sure it's a coincidence, and Skull Kid honestly probably could make the stronger argument, but hey, that's a sly acknowledgement of the Puyo colors.
  • We know that Monster Hunter and Castlevania are the third Capcom and Konami (respectively) series in Smash Bros. The biggest series for SEGA to put in for number 3 is Puyo Puyo. None of the other series they have are that big, popular, or relevant.
  • A big pick from Japan in particular is still open: almost every character was either for promotion or of the desires of the West up to this point.
  • Arle's biggest rivals (characters with the same basic idea) have a bad outlook (but I don't want to be too mean to them).
  • We are still here after both Bomberman AND Rathalos have been revealed as Assists, too. It could be because Arle's Assist will be big, or because Arle isn't an Assist.
  • Richter is the third character from a given third party company, meaning we still have that (though TBF a Sonic echo is far more likely).
  • Arle's western demand did come late, but Bomberman wasn't as relevant at the time of Ultimate's project plan (without K. Rool's sheer demand to circumvent it). Arle is never not relevant, having lots of releases across the span of some years, and was more popular than Bomberman in both's home country. Typically the fan demand is a bonus, only two characters had sheer fan demand get them a spot. [But not that Bomberman wouldn't have been great.]
  • She is among the last remaining notable 80's/90's gaming icons. The Smash Roster skews older.
  • All that's left is a direct acknowledgement from Sakurai that the series exists, but Pac-Man was revealed separately from Mega Man in Smash 4, and the same can be said of Sonic and Snake in Brawl (while Sonic made it because of a delay, it was still separate from Snake's reveal). Street Fighter didn't exist in or to Smash until Ryu made it. Same for Final Fantasy and Cloud, same for Bayonetta (self titled), same for Castlevania and Simon.
Everything's coming together and while I don't think it'll necessarily be by next direct, Arle does have a legitimate chance now. People are free to interpret these any way they want, but personally I believe the signs are there.

Also, Tee is kinda owned by the Tetris Company because he has T Tetrominoes on his clothes. I say kinda owned since he's basically a Geno. I'd sooner count for Assist Trophies Schezo or Witch, maybe Amitie or Ringo, but I wouldn't know. And that not-Layton thing reminds me of Fever 1. Wouldn't that guy draw more like 20th or Fever 2?

Edit: It just dawned on me. Something really neat is that if Arle gets in, she will be near (possibly even outright) the first character alphabetically, and the first character whose name starts with an A. Alph doesn't count because he's an alt for Olimar.

Edit 2: Another dry spell. I kinda wish there was more activity here. I've got so many ideas, we're doing pretty good, we've got the steam to make it at least to Assist Trophy if not outright playable, and I've found a good amount of Arle support on Tumblr. "Literally who" is starting to be dispelled, and I feel like we will be seeing Arle in the game, in some way, moreso than ever.
 
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Ridrool64

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If we see a trophy then we switch (heh) into DLC mode, because we know trophies don't mean you're dead anymore. That would be beautiful, and give the series acknowledgement which is even more beautiful.

On another note, I've gotten around to posting images of what she can do. If anybody would like, I could have these images separately distributed, or even compacted into one of those "animated moveset" things.

ezgif.com-crop (4).gif
Fireball
ezgif.com-crop (1).gif
Ice Storm
ezgif.com-crop (2).gif
Mind Blast
ezgif.com-crop (3).gif
Judgement

Though they'll always be Brain Dumbed and Jugem to me.

Edit 2: "A lot of people are probably wondering, 'Who’s Richter?' I hope they’ll enjoy getting to know him through Ultimate." Sakurai on his latest interview. This is yet another thing going Arle's way, that recognizability to a general audience doesn't matter that much and he is open to exposing them to wider audiences, even for third parties and even for playable characters. And Arle did extremely well on Japan's ballot, which has been stated to be a factor in King K. Rool's inclusion (though he had more worldwide popularity at the time, and we know that this is something Arle used to struggle with). We WILL be seeing Arle in some form now, and I can now say this with 100% certainty (and am prepared to eat my words when she inevitably fails to show up, but she won't).
 
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warelander

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Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I remember Simon was a very popular request from western fans, but barely even a factor in Japan, due to Castlevania in being more popular in the west.

With that in mind Arle would make for a good companion pick, as someone who has a western following, but is far more of a factor in Japan, on top of everything else that she has going for her.

I just really want to believe that Arle has a shot, the good relationship between NIntendo and SEGA could make it easier to add her and SEGA has plenty to gain from Puyo Puyo being promoted via a game as big as Smash.
 

Takasmash

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Arle Nadja for smash ultimate I want her because I love Puzzle games we dont have a Puzzle rep whats with that.
 

Ridrool64

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Importing Chronicle and 20th for 3DS was a good idea, I must say. They're pretty fun. I'm interested in getting more of the Puyo series, right now looking at DS Fever 2 and DS Puyo 7.

I want to have a discussion. Next person to reply to me, I ask this: what would YOU choose for a Puyo Puyo stage? How would it work? Is there a boss battle, and if so, is it like Ridley or like the Yellow Devil?
 

smashkirby

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Importing Chronicle and 20th for 3DS was a good idea, I must say. They're pretty fun. I'm interested in getting more of the Puyo series, right now looking at DS Fever 2 and DS Puyo 7.

I want to have a discussion. Next person to reply to me, I ask this: what would YOU choose for a Puyo Puyo stage? How would it work? Is there a boss battle, and if so, is it like Ridley or like the Yellow Devil?
Primp Town, with characters playing Puyo in the background. Nuisance Puyo has chance of falling on you wherever it forms. As for boss battles, Satan can appear and unleash a spell, like Catacylcsm. On rare occasions, Doppelganger Arle will appear to unleash Void Hole. Well, if she's not Arle's Echo.
 

Ridrool64

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If Puyo Puyo is involved with this, it'll be perfect. I'm thinking of a certain 3DS title there was a massive push for back in 2016, involving a new Ally of Arle's. We can only hope.

Regardless, one thing that draws me to the idea of a playable Arle is that she contrasts :ultsimon: near perfectly, and with an Amitie echo she would be an outright foil.

  1. Both of them are very old-school heroes.
  2. Both of them would theoretically have echo fighters (:ultrichter: and Amitie).
    1. Arle is a brunette, and Amitie is blond: this would be the reverse of Simon and Richter.
  3. Both of them would be popular with little competition in one country, but with stiff competition in another.
    1. Edit: whereas Simon has the west, Arle has the east.
  4. While Castlevania has a serious aesthetic with the occasional goofy moment, Puyo Puyo is generally lighthearted with some grave moments (Madou Monogatari takes things another way though).
  5. Both series are mostly known for their 2D elements, but they do have some 3D in there.
  6. Both of them have defeated creatures and demons of varying sorts, and do so on a regular basis.
  7. A song often associated with both was originally neither's theme (Theme of Puyo Puyo/Vampire Killer), but has been both's theme at least once.
  8. Obvious, but while Simon's male, Arle's female.
  9. While Simon rides alone, Arle always has a companion by her side.
  10. There's probably more I'm not thinking of.
    1. Every subnumber is an edit. Both Arle and Simon have had inconsistent hair colors, but they are most iconic for their realistic hair colors (blonde and brunette, over crimson redhead and orange).
    2. Castlevania has always been Castlevania and a platformer series, whereas Puyo Puyo is the puzzle descendant of Madou Monogatari.
    3. The stars of the first few mainline games, both would not be the main character of the fifth one. While Simon skipped 3, Arle didn't. While Simon was not present after his time, Arle stayed around as a supporting character (until her return to prominence in 2016).
 
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Ridrool64

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Here's mine.
It’s night, and Kirby and Sonic are in the middle of a fight. It’s getting very tense, but eventually some bean-like jelly things fall from the sky. Kirby recognizes them as the blobs from that tournament against King Dedede! So, he pops some. But while Sonic waits to get back into action, a yellow creature comes into view. And it is only then that a girl clad in blue comes out of the shadows, popping lots of Puyo. So much, in fact, it sends Kirby flying. Sonic fist bumps her when he sees her, since they’ve met; it’s Arle. [Her tagline would come here, followed by her montage.] Carbuncle then bounces on the defeated Kirby, while Arle and Sonic are quickly joined by Bayonetta and the three look to the moon. (If Amitie is here, she tramples past Kirby and Carbuncle after Donguri Gaeru, meeting up with the SEGA trio. Her tagline would come and her gameplay would come after that.)

Kirby is involved because this is Arle's chance to take revenge. Every newcomer trailer has a meta reason for including every veteran.
 

HarajukuNinja

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So I'm relatively new to Puyo with PPT being the first Puyo game I've owned. I went back to play the other games, and it solidified my love for the franchise. While I think it's a bit of a longshot, I'd love to see Arle in Smash to bring more recognition to the games she hails from.

So add me to the support list!
 

Ridrool64

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Ah, the wait brings me ills. I finally feel like I've talked about almost everything, except a few things. She grows likelier to myself, and I will muster the courage to post the document elsewhere as my piece on the situation. I'm also considering translating it into Japanese (I want it to go far), but if I do I will need help. Onto my new topic.

Given that Ultimate even has a story mode, who would go well with her? Doc? Zelda? (Potential newcomers Lip or Layton)?

Edit: Also, rip me in that post above. No Puyo was discussed by the translation/localization team.
 
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warelander

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I'd like to see her with Kirby, just for the Kirby's Avalanche in-joke.
 
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smashkirby

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Ah, the wait brings me ills. I finally feel like I've talked about almost everything, except a few things. She grows likelier to myself, and I will muster the courage to post the document elsewhere as my piece on the situation. I'm also considering translating it into Japanese (I want it to go far), but if I do I will need help. Onto my new topic.

Given that Ultimate even has a story mode, who would go well with her? Doc? Zelda? (Potential newcomers Lip or Layton)?

Edit: Also, rip me in that post above. No Puyo was discussed by the translation/localization team.
I'd like to see her with Kirby, just for the Kirby's Avalanche in-joke.
Same here. I'd want her with Kirby just for in-joke and her being paired with Sonic would feel a bit... predictable...
 
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YouSeemFRAZZLED

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Hm...….there's that new Puyo game that got leaked for the Switch by the Korean and Japanese rating boards. (I'm so excited!) I guess I could see cross-promotion for that really boosting Arle's chances for DLC, especially since SEGA's apparently really gonna start pushing eSports with it. They might want it to be big even outside of Asia, and Smash would be great for that.
 

Ridrool64

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The way everything is panning out, at this point I think Arle is a semi-lock for DLC. Base game is a tall order due to the project plan presumably taking place before the western launch Tetris and Chronicle's own launch, but she's basically got absolutely no weakness [none] once we get to the DLC season, though she probably won't be heavily expected. Hesitant to call her a lock on the level of Spring Man, since the only third party to have ever been a lock was Pac-Man and that was because Namco was directly involved, but still insanely likely for post-launch. We win no matter what happens, unless somebody simply dislikes the idea of Puyo Puyo getting into Smash Bros. in the development team or SEGA says "no," which would just be a repeat of the Sonic situation and can be overturned with enough demand. Legacy (being comparable to Mario and Ryu)? Popularity? Importance? Capability of fighting? Company willing to license usage of the property? All accounted for. I wouldn't be surprised if she is a fighter, and was moved to DLC fighter after being a planned Assist Trophy.

On a whim, I decided to go back in time to Arle's Brawl and Smash 4 support threads. It's nice seeing that Arle has a real, legitimate shot and people really believe she can make it now. I definitely got an air of "not happening, MAYBE she can squeeze in as an Assist or a trophy" even before coming in with hindsight and having never supported her back then. Man, I do wish I did. I could have even drawn more attention, though I was only 4 when her game was out (I should have bought it). Back in the old times, she wasn't even a blip on my radar. Now she's the character I actively want the most, by far. Also, I found something hilarious in hindsight: one guy predicted a boss fight in Sonic Mania quite a while before it was revealed.

By the way, man I do hope Puyo Puyo E Sports comes out over here, though as long as it's on Switch I can just import it so it's not a big deal (especially because I can read enough Japanese in the game to navigate the menus), and I'd even import it to other people. In terms of roster, if it doesn't have much of a story mode, then put in as many as they can get away with. Harpy, Skeleton T, Akuma, Strange Klug, people of that kind [instead of just the obvious crew]. They could even pull an Ultimate-style "Everyone is here!" From Arle to Rafisol. And that everyone includes the Mean Bean cast. And the Tetra crew. And if it's Nintendo exclusive, even the cast of Kirby's Avalanche. The Compile and Quest exclusives too. But I'd wager it'll only have Chronicle's cast.
 

YouSeemFRAZZLED

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Oh yeah, another little thing I thought. Maybe Arle could have Carbuncle with her, without causing too many problems for a possible Amitie echo fighter, by simply putting him in the background like Pokémon Trainer. He could do a bunch of idle animations like the ones he did in the middle of the screen in the Compile games.

That would be cute.
 

NukeA6

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I'd support but I know almost nothing of Arle other than she originated in a manga, is the star of Puyo-Puyo, and has become a big deal in the puzzle genre. I think she had an RPG too. Oh well, if I support Lip, I guess I Arle Nadja is in my list too? They're both similar after all with similar games.
 

Ridrool64

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Arle did not debut in a manga. She is a video game character, debuting in Madou Monogatari (1 kinda, 2 kinda). Otherwise she’d be ineligible.

She has had multiple RPG's, and the rest is accurate.
 
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Flyboy

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Big time support. I've been obsessed with Puyo Puyo Tetris lately and she has so much history with Nintendo and with Sega. She would have a great unique moveset based around puzzles with some of her spells, too. As I said in the Lip thread, my ideal scenario would be Lip and Arle revealed in the same trailer, one that features Kirby and Yoshi for that shout-out.

My dream scenario would also have Amitie and Ringo (my favorite) as echo fighters and Tee as an assist trophy. All the biggest puzzlers would then be represented in one game, as well as all the eras of Puyo Puyo.

(Also, if Carbuncle helps in any of Arle's moves, Ringo could substitute an apple, and that'd be funny.)

But yes! Puzzle games need rep in Smash and I love Arle and Puyo Puyo!
 

Jyl

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New around here, and while Arle isn't my number one most wanted, I do want her enough for her to be in my top three of most wanted for Smash. Seems like the support for her has diminished somwhat here in this thread, but nonetheless I want to let you all know I support Arle!
I got into the series late but better late than never. I'm a puzzle game fan and I love the gameplay of Puyo puyo even if I'm not very good at it.
 

NukeA6

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Arle did not debut in a manga. She is a video game character, debuting in Madou Monogatari (1 kinda, 2 kinda). Otherwise she’d be ineligible.

She has had multiple RPG's, and the rest is accurate.
My mistake then. I could sworn I saw volume next to Madou Monogatari 123 but I guess not.
 

Ridrool64

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The reason we're on a downswing right now, if I had to inquire, is because we're already waiting for DLC. Base game is too tall of an order [with what we know], but once we get there we're set and can make a big push.

I know a guy who made a different Arle moveset. There's a link in my document to their document. The primary difference is that Arle is a lot more like Mega Man. Give it a read, and see what you think.

Edit; So, Puyo Puyo e Sports has finally been officially revealed. Pour one out for Klug, but at least Harpy’s in. Here’s hoping Quest compatibility and a localization is a thing (also? Guess who has Quest now? I do! And I gotta say, I only hope for Skeleton T to show up. Can’t get into Quest exclusive characters because I can’t read their text.)

Gonna say this, Arle would probably be Fighter Number 72. It’s 24 times 3, and the opportunity for a stealth pun is brilliant.
 
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Captain Shwampy

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@1:39:37
Jun Senou (Sonic composer) and Shoji Meguro (Persona composer) did a cool puyo puyo remix at TGS
 

Ridrool64

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Me and a group of friends have been speculating that Puyo Puyo e Sports is sort of a "filler game", made to shorten the gap between Chronicle and another story focused game. It also means they're not dealing with the Tetris Company every time they want to host a tournament. And there's some new aestethic changes that I appreciate.

...but, man am I disappointed that 6 Quest Exclusives wormed their way into the roster, upsetting several characters. As a consolation prize, at least the likes of Skeleton T and Kikimora get to be profile pictures, but at the same time it's undeniable that seeing Lemres as just an extra in this day and age is... bizarre. If there was ever a reason to kick the 24 character limit to the curb, this is it.
 

smashkirby

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Me and a group of friends have been speculating that Puyo Puyo e Sports is sort of a "filler game", made to shorten the gap between Chronicle and another story focused game. It also means they're not dealing with the Tetris Company every time they want to host a tournament. And there's some new aesthetic changes that I appreciate.

...but, man am I disappointed that 6 Quest Exclusives wormed their way into the roster, upsetting several characters. As a consolation prize, at least the likes of Skeleton T and Kikimora get to be profile pictures, but at the same time it's undeniable that seeing Lemres as just an extra in this day and age is... bizarre. If there was ever a reason to kick the 24 character limit to the curb, this is it.
Yeah, I'm really hoping that rumor about being able to transfer any and all characters currently in Quest into e-Sports is true. That roster just feels like a real deal breaker right now.

In fact, the general consensus among the Puyo fandom (that I've seen so far) seems to agree that as of this game, the 24-character limit NEEDS to be removed.
 

Notshane

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Yeah, can't say I'm a fan of the roster either...
I'm very much a fan of Harpy and Seriri being playable (wish they were in PPT), but yeah, using a lot of Quest characters really hurts. Overseas players won't get where they came from and believe they're an original effort for eSports, assuming they continue to localize the series after Puyo Puyo Tetris.

Me and a group of friends have been speculating that Puyo Puyo e Sports is sort of a "filler game", made to shorten the gap between Chronicle and another story focused game. It also means they're not dealing with the Tetris Company every time they want to host a tournament. And there's some new aestethic changes that I appreciate.

...but, man am I disappointed that 6 Quest Exclusives wormed their way into the roster, upsetting several characters. As a consolation prize, at least the likes of Skeleton T and Kikimora get to be profile pictures, but at the same time it's undeniable that seeing Lemres as just an extra in this day and age is... bizarre. If there was ever a reason to kick the 24 character limit to the curb, this is it.
I imagine. That makes sense since eSports looks pretty recycled. I'd love Puyo Puyo avatars for the Switch, but I doubt third-party characters will have a chance there. It would also be pretty smart if they did what the Xbox 360 did and let you buy avatars.

Really, I have grown used to how the art style is now and all, but part of me hopes that they try to change it up again one more time in the future. It amazes me that the games still take so long to make with how much they recycle. If eSports is compensating the series meeting its quota of having one new release every couple of years, then they must be putting in a lot of effort into the next mainline entry. I assume it will be the writing, of course, that's taking a while. Or perhaps, they will really surprise us and the soundtrack will be noticeably different.

Either way, Chronicles reminded us that the series mixing up its aesthetic is really what made it feel refreshing again. I'm amazed that, despite the simplicity of the Compile art style just being another anime game, every one of their entries looked different from each other in a lot of ways, especially YON. Three of the four games have very different appearances. And even the GBA one made by Sonic Team sticks out a lot on its own. If SEGA would bring back the mindset they had with that entry, maybe there's hope for the series yet to retain its overseas popularity, which I know won't last after Puyo Puyo Tetris due to, well, that game having Tetris in it, a puzzle game that is very beloved overseas.
 

NukeA6

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Throw me in the support list as well. I always support the OGs and there would be no Panel de Pon without her.
 

Arle Nadja

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There is no greater injustice in the history of Smash's inclusive roster than the fact that Puyo Puyo hasn't had so much as a measly trophy in the three games Sonic Team has been in contact with the Smash Team. A series this influential in Japanese culture should have never gotten that treatment. Though, I can't blame Sakurai. A big part of me suspects that the reason for this is simply that Sonic Team has never asked.

That being said I'd honestly be pleasantly surprised with anything, but Arle as a player character? I would main her no matter how badly she fit my playstyle. Easily my favorite character ever. Supported with great prejudice.
 
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Ridrool64

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The more the merrier. Welcome aboard to the Puyo hype train, where the wheels are made of slime balls and instead of chugging it's popping.

On that note... I've updated my document to a significant degree.


If you just want a basic list of changes...

1. Elaborated on why Arle in particular is important more clearly. While her series total sales are very impressive at 20 million, recent games aren't picking up the slack, except Puyo Puyo Quest which is gacha and Puyo Puyo Tetris which is on lots of platforms and has Tetris in it.
2. I intend to have it translated into Japanese. Rights are discussed.
3. Her moveset will eventually get a much more in depth analysis on how I imagine it playing out. Frame data, knockback, but I've layed out the seeds. Also, her moveset did get a change: her down throw, which is now a garbage Puyo bombardment and a lot less desperate for moveset potential.
4. The Amitie section has been expanded a little!
5. A bunch of other changes that aren't as big. For example, a bigger trophy list. More clarifications on how unbossy and weak willed I am.
6. A link to the other moveset, which I will provide a link to here. This moveset is a lot more "Madou Monogatari" while I went with a more "Puyo Puyo" approach, but I'd say Dimpsy's is just as good and worth a look.

Edit: The MYM template is pretty nice, because I go into a lot more detail here on how Arle herself would play. Take a look at this different version. EDIT 2: It is now an entry in Make Your Move.
 
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Ridrool64

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Yeah, it kinda is. I've exhausted most of my topics, but I will say, I'm certain that DLC will give us our reward. Base game is just... not our time.
 

FamicomDisk

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Here's something that I figured this thread might be interested in looking at - a few days ago, someone made a fake leak of Arle!


It's already been debunked, and while it was pretty clearly fake because of stuff like the stiff movements and the characters staying idle, it honestly doesn't look terrible! There have definitely been much worse-looking attempts at leaks in the past. :p Thought people here might think it's neat if they haven't seen it yet!

Arle being chosen for fake leaks definitely shows that she's becoming more well-known, too!
 
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NukeA6

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Why does Smash Bros have to be the target of the most cutting-edge trolling? Next, someone's gonna mod the demo and throw in Ronald McDonald just to piss off anyone who thinks Nintendo would be insane enough to add him in.
 
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