Arkansas Smashers Chat

[The March Hare]

That joke was fowl.

I've heard these puns a thousand times; you guys need to stop before you egret it.

 

[arbustos]

Personally, I find these puns fairly pheasant. Real quail-ity stuff. You guys roc!

. . . but seriously, they're murdering me over here. I'm like to crow over and die.



Real-life Notebook: http://www.kcci.com/r/29528191/detail.html

"We were like, he isn't breathing. How does he still have a heart beat? The nurse checked and said that's because they were holding hands and it's going through them. Her heart was beating through him and picking it up."

how touching

Spoiler

yeeeaaah... :[

Spoiler

I've been here many times with that exact chair.

The comments indicate nearly every college has these. Did some lucky company corner the market!?

http://www.myvidster.com/video/1994277/_Dexter039s_Lab_Speed_Racer
Oooh yes.


"If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn’t help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we’ve got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don’t want to do it.” ― Stephen Colbert

pri good quote

 

[The March Hare]

No, monkey, no! That is not candy, it is hot lava!

 

[arbustos]

1. VTS are we going this weekend or not? I'm fine either way
2. Zane we should play soon. I was looking back over the MIST vids, which was right when we were playing about twice a week, and I was so much smoother than I am now. And sometimes I get half-remembered flashes of cool stuff I made up/used to do but don't even remember anymore We could have made a baller video if we recorded during the summer. What I'm saying is we have really fun matches and I miss them. Everyone's so busy now :'(
3. Could you go to Missouri this weekend if we went? Although I think attendance isn't looking too hot up there, so idk anymore.

 

[Vts]

Toshiba's new 6.1-inch LCD boasts an impressive resolution of 2,560×1,600 pixels, dear jesus thats crazy

i guess we can go

i mean since i said we are going

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Yeah there's people backing out last minute. But Strong Bad is still coming so come up and **** his face.

 

[G. Vice]

I don't have it in me to go this weekend. But I do wanna smash sometime. I kinda have been out of the smash loop as of late, and it's definitely showing.

I miss you too arby

 

[Yo$himan]

So, when are we leaving tomorrow?

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Are you guys coming tomorrow night? If so where are you staying?

 

[Vts]

hoping to stay at the church again

also leave around 7-8 pm after ace gets off work.

more crazyness http://gizmodo.com/5851614/panty-and-stocking-with-garterbelt--d-city-rock

 

[Zivilyn Bane]

Oh lol. You should warn me ahead of time lol. That should work though. I'll plant the key in the same place.

 

[arbustos]

The tier list thread is putting everyone and their dog over Ganon. Pika, Luigi, Mario, YOSHI, Y. Link, Samus. This community is fixated with the notion that you have to mess up and run into Ganon's moves to lose to him, as if that's suddenly true for that matchup and no other. Buncha dumbos. I wonder if they understand how slow, powerful characters work.

I mean, you have to get equivalent or more reads with the Potemkins, Hugos, Zangiefs, etc. of the world to win. That's the nature of the character type, and it's made feasible because they all prey on human expectation. Although a lot of Ganons seem to forget that in certain situations, which then lowers everyone's opinion of him Vicious cycle.

@Clay - ^Understanding this (mostly from playing Potemkin) is why I hit so often with the koolaid kick and have any kind of success with Ganon at all. It's just a different mentality.

 

[Yo$himan]

Of course, everyone knows that Yoshi and his dog, mario, are better than ganon.

 

[G. Vice]

Since when have people spoke so ill of Ganon Arby??

I'll not have it!

 

[arbustos]

"The Maid is a girl, who thinks she's a dude and dresses up in women's clothes and tries to be a real man."

#japan

 

[Strong Badam]

g. vice please go i want to play you.
vts isn't fun to play (**** ICs)

is ihavespaceballs coming again?

Yeah there's people backing out last minute. But Strong Bad is still coming so come up and **** his face.

lol you just don't want to lose to me again

 

[chamberlin]

The tier list thread is putting everyone and their dog over Ganon. Pika, Luigi, Mario, YOSHI, Y. Link, Samus. This community is fixated with the notion that you have to mess up and run into Ganon's moves to lose to him, as if that's suddenly true for that matchup and no other. Buncha dumbos. I wonder if they understand how slow, powerful characters work.

I mean, you have to get equivalent or more reads with the Potemkins, Hugos, Zangiefs, etc. of the world to win. That's the nature of the character type, and it's made feasible because they all prey on human expectation. Although a lot of Ganons seem to forget that in certain situations, which then lowers everyone's opinion of him Vicious cycle.

@Clay - ^Understanding this (mostly from playing Potemkin) is why I hit so often with the koolaid kick and have any kind of success with Ganon at all. It's just a different mentality.

I'll be honest, my opinion of Ganon has been lowering after the past few months also. It's not like it's impossible to win with him, same goes for Yoshi, Pika, etc, but you have to have a WAY different mindset than the standard Fox, Marth, Shiek, etc. Take tech-chasing for example. The only way to successfully cover all tech-chase options with Ganon is to incorporate moves like the kool-aid kick, where as other characters like Fox, Shiek, Marth can simply run fast enough and use simple tactics to cover all options. That, and a few other things, is what would make Ganon a lower-tiered character than the big dogs imo.

Pika is an AMAZING character too, it's just the overhead required to play him to full potential is really high. Yoshi's got a lot of potential imo also, but I don't think anyone's fully tapped in to that resource yet. Young Link... kinda stanks haha.

Really any character in Melee can win(tires don exit), it's just that more people find it easier with certain characters thus the tier list was created. I mean people like Gvice and VTS have a built in mindset to win with their certain characters, it's just that more people find it easier to win with Fox.

 

[arbustos]

Ganon covers options with the threat of his moves though. His simple mixups keep you honest and hurt a whole lot. Marth does the same thing, but yeah he can take the easy route on tech chasing and just run you down. But if, for example, you forward throw someone by the edge and they always tech in because it's the safest option, you can obviously get a much stronger punish off that knowledge than regrab. Anyway, regrab is a comparatively better option with Ganon because he's scary. All anyone wants to do is reset to neutral against him when pressured. Keeping them down, even with a regrab, is way more effective psychologically than with Marth or whomever. People freeze up a little mentally and get real predictable. That, or they understand this is Ganon's M.O. and try to muscle through it/overwhelm him. And that's also real predictable. I've seen this exact dynamic play out in a million videos at all levels of play. It's exactly how the big guys like Potemkin operate too.

This type of character, which plays off the human element to land big hits, is never top tier material. But they are always successful in a competitive setting. Ganon's strong tourney history and his inherent strengths as a character (good moveset, hard punishes, deceptive movement, weight, bleh) justify his placement above the rest of mid tier and in the same area as Doc, Samus, Luigi, and Pika. The order doesn't matter so much as the idea that he belongs at the bottom of mid tier. That's crazy.

*Wizard foot only covers 3/4 options, like raptor boost. Roll away is safe, and get up attack sometimes works.

Then the guy gets to thinking teching away from Ganon sounds like the safest option, and suddenly a fist is there to meet them. It's like Falcon techchasing, or really any techchasing. People do the work for you.

 

[chamberlin]

*Wizard foot only covers 3/4 options, like raptor boost. Roll away is safe, and get up attack sometimes works.

I'm used to getting off scott free from Ganons because they don't use wizard's foot. If you see Ganon walking or running towards a direction, simply tech the other way and bam you're free (unless near a ledge).

Also, most Ganon's don't utilize the chain-grab game enough. It's pretty beast
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1AUfCgqpmY

 

[arbustos]

I think he could pretty easily fake you out before you have time to tech, unless you mean after you've missed your tech.

Yeah, that's like second or third best throw in the game besides Sheik down and Fox up >.> Maybe tied with Marth up.

 

[Vts]

g. vice please go i want to play you.
vts isn't fun to play (**** ICs)

is ihavespaceballs coming again?

Ics are fun to play against i mean all you have to do is out camp them

no jack isn't coming

think we are leaving around 6 it looks like.

i need to clean my car up a little bit.

 

[G. Vice]

Arby fights hard on this point of Ganon being a good character. And honestly I'm not sure why. No offense to any of you guys, I understand you probably all know more about melee than me. But believe me when I say, I've been playing Ganon a long time, and I've been playing him versus many players. I've approached this game with him as my main in ALL kinds of different ways and situations. Offensively, defensively, trickily, space-happy, jab happy, slide happy, you name it I've tried it. He is a limited character in many ways, and no matter how you slice it, he is inferior to alot of others. Don't get me wrong. I still love the guy, and I'll main him no matter what. But believe me, he does have to work harder than you guys do with Marth/Fox/Falco/Sheik/Peach or whatever high tier character is played. He not only can make fewer mistakes, but he relies on the opponent making more mistakes than him. Baiting is not that good, if the fish are too smart to bite. Then you'll need another means of catching them, and being slow ain't a good way to do that(think real life, because it works in this analogy).

That's why Linguini/Chaddd all have a Fox. Because in times of duress, Ganon can't make the cut. Believe me, it's one of the reasons that makes me depressed smashing with you guys these days. Because not only are you good vs me due to playing me, but Ganon can't beat you guys. Arby, if you actually mained someone, and played someone consistently and let them get to know how you play and learn you, and they were not only good at the matchup, but a great smasher and had a character advantage vs you? You'd get depressed too. My case and point is clay. He beats me, but yet I'm not impressed while losing. If that makes sense...no offense clay. It's just that a smart playstyle.

Yes, the threat of Ganon's moves makes him scary, but honestly at this point in the metagame, with people advanced as they are, you desperately need a guaranteed follow up. Yes, sometimes Ganon chooses right and hits you, and hits you hard. But, fox/falcon/sheik and others, can literally react to you, and leave you with no option. So while they may be able to not hit you as hard, seeing as how they have a 100% follow up when done correctly, they are by default- better in that regard.

I do not believe that Ganon is a "bad" character. There are clearly worse characters. But when you compare his weight and how easy he is to combo, with the fact that he's slower than all of the upper tiered characters, and the fact that he has no projectile, and more lag on his moves. He is in fact, NOT that great.

And I do NOT know why everyone is riding the wizard's foot so hard. That move has it's uses, and they are few and far between. It does not by any means constitute an effective consistent techchase. It may be situationally useful for changing things up. It may even have a weird effect where you land it alot on certain people. But that is because you are exploiting the person, not that the move is good(though it is better than the falcon kick). That move will get you punished SO much, you honestly have no idea guys. Believe me, I've been around the block with Ganon, I know. And yeah, I don't chain grab because I just don't like it. If I wanted to do everything as g@y as possible I might would spam it. Or just main fox.


edit* Strongbad, sorry man. I'm not going. I'll play you again though, no worries.

 

[Yo$himan]

Sounds to me that you are giving yourself reasons not to get better. I believe that a character is only as limited as the creative limitations on the players mind. That means, if you think your character is limited, you need to train your mind.

 

[G. Vice]

Sounds to me that you are giving yourself reasons not to get better. I believe that a character is only as limited as the creative limitations on the players mind. That means, if you think your character is limited, you need to train your mind.

Bro, I've approached this a million different ways. And not to try to toot my own horn, but if nothing else, people have complimented my unique approach to this game. With Ganon, and in general. So the only way I'm going to get better at this game is to play more, devote more time to learning it, and practice tech skill daily. And that's not going to happen, due to many reasons. I just simply don't have as much time as I'd like.

Don't say I'm not creative bro. That ain't cool. Lol

What it comes down to is time and practice and both are in small supply for me. Especially to be learning more about a character that has to find ways around stuff instead of being able to handle it head-on.

 

[Yo$himan]

I never said you were not creative, I was only saying that you could be more creative. There are a few tricks that you used on us back in the day, but now you don't use those anymore. If you could bring those back and incorporate them into your current game, it would be scary. Over all, I'm just saying that creativity has no limitations, except for those put on it by the player.

edit: I'm not just pointing this at gvice. I'm pointing it at everyone.

 

[arbustos]

Ics are fun to play against i mean all you have to do is out camp them.

>fun
>camp

That's not why they're fun to play.

Disgustingly long and unorganized post ahead. Slow traffic merge right.
*This isn't about how good Ganon is, because I'm pretty sure we see him in the same part of the tier list. It's about how you personally view him.

stuff

dude you really are limiting yourself

Just that part about the wizard's foot is a clear example. That move is simply amazing. It's got priority out the wazoo and stays out for years. You've gotta stop thinking in terms of what makes the high tiers good and focus on what's good for GANON. Having a move like down b is so useful, considering his mentality already focuses you to call people out and factoring in his low immediate ground speed.

Aah you keep comparing him to top tiers. Clay's right; he has a COMPLETELY different gameplan than those guys. Part of that is because he really doesn't have the same options. No one was saying Ganon is better than the top 8. But it's also because he was just built differently. Baiting is the name of his game, like with any character but amplified. Like dashdancing is good with everyone, but Marth/Fox/Falcon can amplify that and make it their game. Although they have other options and don't have to play that way. Ganon's speed kind of sets his playstyle though, but there's nothing wrong with that. And honestly, he's really freaking good at it. Some slow guys like Hugo are low/bottom tier in their game, and some are high, like Potemkin. Ganon's just good enough to be where he is, I think.

But when you compare his weight and how easy he is to combo, with the fact that he's slower than all of the upper tiered characters, and the fact that he has no projectile, and more lag on his moves.

See, focusing on all that is why you (and other non-top tier mains) get so down about your character. Why are you comparing him to the top tier when judging his worth? Focus on how good he is at doing his own thing. Which is way better than you're painting it. As someone who has played against Ganon with many characters and is good against him, I can tell you his game is very solid. I feel it when I play him too. I don't just lose when I'm playing bad, which is the usual community john when it comes to Ganon. (You'll just have to trust me on this, because in the heat of the moment it doesn't seem that way. And you have all those other factors working against you when you play me, like you said, so my losses are usually more complex than just "lol ganon.")

I don't buy that part about the fish being too smart to bite at all. Baiting is really the heart of this game, with every character. And every character does it differently. Ganon specializes in it. I mean, it's not just tricking the opponent over and over and hitting them hard. That limited way of thinking seems like it would box you into a cage of expectations.

You're mistaken about the ease with which the top tiers land hits. Maybe playing Ganon biases you, but they're doing all the same stuff you're doing, in their own fashion. And they all get comboed hard (although not as hard as Ganon, but again that depends on matchup). As someone without a main, it's really funny to see the rest of the community cast theirs down and raise everyone else's up. High level floaties complain that spacies just spam nair/laser/shield pressure without thinking and win. That's soooo far from the truth it hurts. They should know, considering how easily they destroy thoughtless spacy play. Fastfallers complain about floaty "camping" and all that BS. Falcons complain about everything. Point is, everyone sees their character through the lens of the rest of the cast. VTS always says "I wish Ice Climbers had that," being shine or up throw knee or whatever. It's ridiculous, but everyone else does it in some form or another. Forget about those other guys! Focus on what makes YOUR character work, and how to make it work better.

Especially to be learning more about a character that has to find ways around stuff instead of being able to handle it head-on.

He just does it differently. It's not a weakness, but a difference in design. Reframing it in context of how he plays, he does handle the situations this game throws at him head-on.

One small example. That situation you Ganons find yourselves in all the time, where you've got the guy relatively close to the edge one way or another and now you're falling on him at a spaced distance. Even (and especially) when he has time to get his shield up (like during a techchase), you still bair. Almost every time. Yeah, sometimes you land and ftilt to catch the jump, but it doesn't happen nearly enough. And there's so much you can do there, not just 1)bair or 2)ftilt. You've got him shielding after a tech at a good, spaced distance. Usually back to the edge. Come on now. I think it's a problem of broadening your option tree mid-scenario. You're too focused on one or two answers to expand and treat each situation with true creativity. Here I agree with Will. It is often the case that non-mains will see a character in a more creative light than the main, because the main is so entrenched in his way of playing and the answers he's built his game on. It's kind of painful to watch true mains sometimes because they keep making the "usually" correct choice 95% of the time out of habit. Hate to say, but you do too. As do I, and it's the next thing I'm working on. But it really holds your character back when he admittedly doesn't have many other options to be going on with.

Capitalize on what you have and stop worrying about what you don't!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxcCC2g1Ke0

My mom sent this to me

 

[Vts]

all i gotta say

 

[arbustos]

"Fat men in Speedos"

Things that make you go uuuueeewwugh

 

[Vts]

sadly i feel like i'm GF and BF

well more of i am instead of feel lol

 

[arbustos]

BF's a good thing though

I feel like AB and EG

 

[Vts]

Location: Blonde on Blonde

feeling Ronery?

 

[arbustos]

Yeah I want me some of this.

I guess there's a couple things going on there.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

BG & DG signing in.

 

[arbustos]

Awfully honest of you

 

[Vts]

could be worse could have mixed like AD and BG together to get something rather sick

 

[G. Vice]

Whatever. I got plenty to say, but I'm not typing that stuff out.

Trying to get better is instinctual, and for the last year it's felt stagnant and ineffective. Everyone else has been seeming to get better, but I think it's just where I'm at right now. Smash is just leaving me I think, and I'm not really sure why.

I play because I enjoy the game, and when the point comes that I don't, I won't. Simple as that.

 

[chamberlin]

Upon reading all the recent posts about Ganon, I related them all to marriage and relationships. Zane loves Ganon... So much that he wants to have no other character and won't even compromise the integrity of the character with tactics that he views immoral such as chain-grabbing. However, lately, the character selection has been riddled with feelings of "My Ganon's not good enough" and focusing on the weaknesses of the character. When really every relationsh *cough* character selection has it's pros and cons. If you feel the character selection is stuck in a rut, try spicing things up with moves such as the wizards foot or perhaps some forward-B action

 

[G. Vice]

Upon reading all the recent posts about Ganon, I related them all to marriage and relationships. Zane loves Ganon... So much that he wants to have no other character and won't even compromise the integrity of the character with tactics that he views immoral such as chain-grabbing. However, lately, the character selection has been riddled with feelings of "My Ganon's not good enough" and focusing on the weaknesses of the character. When really every relationsh *cough* character selection has it's pros and cons. If you feel the character selection is stuck in a rut, try spicing things up with moves such as the wizards foot or perhaps some forward-B action

I forward B combo all the time, where you at Clay.

Wizard's foot blows.

Foxes idea of pros and cons: Amazing decision vs really really good decision

 

[arbustos]

Whatever. I got plenty to say, but I'm not typing that stuff out.

Aw, that's no fun

Forward B kind of works in the metaphor (a little scoops action), but wizard foot? I don't even want to know.

 

[Vts]

Whatever. I got plenty to say, but I'm not typing that stuff out.

Trying to get better is instinctual, and for the last year it's felt stagnant and ineffective. Everyone else has been seeming to get better, but I think it's just where I'm at right now. Smash is just leaving me I think, and I'm not really sure why.

I play because I enjoy the game, and when the point comes that I don't, I won't. Simple as that.

why you pulling a renth homey g