Arizona Brawl Power Rankings and Brawl Social Thread (Updated: November 2013)

[FoxFireMage]

@Jar'd All the research I've put in has shown that its been universally banned since release, show me otherwise

@Tommy What kind of playstyles work, if they're unfair, competitively unsound, whether they can be camped in, blastzones, how random the so called random elements are, etc.

 

[Medz!]

honestly i used to complain about mk too at first but now that i learned how he works idc about fighting him that much

u just have to improve and learn how to space, play patiently, and have a good mindset when fighting the character.

i dont see the point in adding stages, counter picks, and banning mk.

there is not that many mks here in yuma, only like 4 or 5 that i fought with 2 being good and the others playing like noobs lol

 

[Jar'd]

It was legal in Washington for the majority of 08. I'm looking for a thread or aib tourney that actually lists the rules, but if it's any consolation for now, a quote from Valdens

DaCogs (8:30): random question
***hannenbow was legal in WA for doubles or something like that a long *** time ago
***right
Valdens (8:30): Hanenbow used to be legal in WA period

 

[FoxFireMage]

Doubles...not helping your case

 

[Jar'd]

Doubles...not helping your case

Re-read the quote. I was under the assumption that it was just doubles, but Valdens corrected me telling me it was legal in everything.

 

[JustinKamikaze]

A guy who can't make it out of pools wants to ban MK and experiment with rules for a healthy more competitive scene? Nah dawg, stop with all the research non sense and actually learn how to play the game.

 

[FoxFireMage]

Um, who are you even? Seriously

 

[Duff0]

he's an old school az player

former #1

ffm, you are a smart guy. its smart to be in a scene for a long time before you start to mold it. that way you are a more respected member of the community (no offense) and people will be more likely to respect your views

 

[FoxFireMage]

Honestly back in July when I did THIS IS TUCSON!!!, I did not expect Phoenix to come down, or it to be added to the season. I consider my tourneys still mainly for Tucson, people in Tucson either don't care or want a MK ban, save a few exceptions. If we're banning MK why not experiment around a little, see what people like? Honestly that's my logic for all the things outside of MK

 

[Carn]

I personally am relatively new to the competitive scene, and still in the process of learning a lot of things (Which is a tad hard with my Wii being broken at the moment). I don't really feel like a local Metaknight ban is necessary in this state. If we were in some play like California were everyone and their sister plays Metaknight, I am sure my opinion would differ, but I feel like our state has enough diversity to justify keeping him a legal pick.

As for the stages you listed Fox, there are most definitely reasons some of them are banned. For instance, as a Falco player, I would be thrilled if Jungle Japes became an available counter-pick. There are to many dumb things Falco can pull off on that stage to make it legal, not to mention Diddy's annoying peanut camping on the side platforms.

A brief example of Falco being dumb on Japes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6SVIljteU

One thing that the video does not show is Falco's annoying jump down lazer that interrupts the opponent trying to jump out of the water, basically killing them. There are a few more reasons like Claptraps (Yes, I know they are on a set timer, but still...), but Falco alone is almost enough to have the stage banned.

But hey, I don't mind if you unban it, that means I always get Final Destination open on Falco.

As for Picto chat... I just hate that stage. To much interference for my tastes.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

And I seek to change that a little. In my opinion matches shouldn't be about who can play gay but instead about who's better, something the current timeout rule doesn't do as far as I'm concerned

This is why tires don exits should not be running tournaments

As I said at the beginning experimental ruleset. This will be mildly tested (mainly stages) before the next Tucson tourney for data, and the tourney will apply said data. The one thing I am completely serious about though is MK. Next Tucson tourney won't be until either 9/24 or 10/1. I can arrange at least 2 Smashfests out of Katana, so there should be plenty of data before than

@Tommy What kind of playstyles work, if they're unfair, competitively unsound, whether they can be camped in, blastzones, how random the so called random elements are, etc.

Tested by whom? Random kids at Katana who don't like playing with no items? Yourself, who has made it abundantly clear you will interpret everything with such heavy bias? You don't even have an MK player around you enough to form a frame of reference. Now, I don't mean to get personal or anything, but why may I ask do you think you're so qualified to try to make so many analyses? How are you going to convince a community years strong that your sudden decisions are valid? You may claim that you'll be "testing", but no matter what your "results" are, the community >, and it already has a pretty good idea of what's good for it.

Because I believe a more varied metagame would be healthier.

Metagames create themselves. By changing rules, you are halting metagame progression by forcing people to accomodate changes.

 

[Jane]

If the BBR decides to ban MK, I will not complain nor boycott any tournament. But, I refuse to accept local banning against the BBR's recommendation, just to satisfy a couple of people.

well then we're all good. and yeah a ban isnt absolutely vital for me. i've put up with him being not banned my entire smash career and i've never once blamed a loss on "they used mk" or any character. mk being banned is just like a happy daydream for me. either way i'll play this game.


FOXFIRE: i have an idea. why dont you conduct a poll in the tucson brawl page concerning your proposed stage changes and see what everyone thinks. i'm fairly positive everyone will oppose. would that be enough to end this fuckery?

 

[DerpDaBerp]

I think you need certain account status to make polls. not sure. almost drunk

 

[Blood_Hawk]

A guy who can't make it out of pools wants to ban MK and experiment with rules for a healthy more competitive scene? Nah dawg, stop with all the research non sense and actually learn how to play the game.

Wait, this game is worth learning?

 

[FoxFireMage]

@Derp I'm fully offended by the first sentence. Katana activate don't really play anymore, it would be a Smashfest I would advertise ahead of time and it would be free to play, solely to collect data on the new rules and have some fun. Honestly why are you so resistant to any kind of change? Even if its just to test things out? Better yet, why are you such a douche to me?

@Jane I'll post an open vote on the TB FB wall within the next few minutes

 

[JustinKamikaze]

Wait, this game is worth learning?

Welllllllllll if you wanna have credited input on it, sure why not <3 Pat

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Justin, when are you going to visit bro? We need to get drunk together.

 

[JustinKamikaze]

All I want for Christmas this year is to get drunk with my AZ brethren <3

 

[Nicknyte]

All I want for Christmas is all of you to play Melee, but there is no Santa Claus after all.

 

[DerpDaBerp]

All I want for Christmas this year is to get drunk with my AZ brethren <3

@Derp I'm fully offended by the first sentence. Katana activate don't really play anymore, it would be a Smashfest I would advertise ahead of time and it would be free to play, solely to collect data on the new rules and have some fun. Honestly why are you so resistant to any kind of change? Even if its just to test things out? Better yet, why are you such a douche to me?

Sorry for sounding like a jerk. That first part was just playin around
But you're not listening to us. There is no need for a change. There is no data to collect that the community doesn't already intuit naturally.
Playing the stages for fun is great, hell I'll even suggest Picto in tournament when I'm feeling extra saucy. But taking it upon yourself to propose alterations to major parts of the ruleset the scene has already accepted because of hypotheses will lead nowhere.

But how do you know without experimenting?

The scene's inception was 3 1/2 years ago at the release date. They've been experimenting ever since. Trust SWF on this one.

Again, sorry for sounding like a jerk

 

[FoxFireMage]

But what's wrong with US experimenting? What's the harm? I'm listening but you're not saying much other than SWF this and that, Unity has some flaws from my eyes, and testing some stuff out sees if we can pinpoint them. I see the contention with MK (I'm gathering a vote on the FB group) but I'm just trying to experiment around and see if some things click, I've heard individual people saying pros about the changes I'm experimenting on, and cons. Hello their are stages on the list that as a Fox main I would not want to play on period. It would force me to do Lucario. Just messing around, but honestly a tourney is the best way to gather some data

 

[Nicknyte]

Well, Derp, he has one point. The people who experiment, are people like FFM, that is willing to take a chance to see how people like idea of how a tournament could be ran. It aint a bad thing. 'Sides, ain't nothing to lose. Nubs will go to a brawl tournament regardless, just to meet up and chill with friends. The whole ban MK thing is just a bit extreme, but I would like to see some tournaments where metaknight is banned, and some aint, just for a change in flavor.

 

[JustinKamikaze]

Like Derp said though we have been experimenting since release date, I use to run jungle japes/luigis mansion/pictochat back when I hosted tourneys. Hell I remember playing shadow moses when somebody wanted to counter pick me there at a random tourney lol at living to 300%. Besides everybody plays smashville anyway so what does it matter.

 

[Nicknyte]

So, should we stop experimenting with FFM, is what I am saying. You never know, he could come up with the same conclusion similar to what the BBR has, but he wont personally know unless he tries. I think giving him a chance to see the pro and cons of such, is not a bad idea.

Listening to Grit's Theme. Yeaaa.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bXM-WqvT18

 

[TommyDerMeister]

tsk tsk Tommy, you disapoint me. lol

Honestly back in July when I did THIS IS TUCSON!!!, I did not expect Phoenix to come down, or it to be added to the season. I consider my tourneys still mainly for Tucson, people in Tucson either don't care or want a MK ban, save a few exceptions. If we're banning MK why not experiment around a little, see what people like? Honestly that's my logic for all the things outside of MK

Tourneys are considered for the PR of they have good turnout, but also with a pretty good concentration of good players as well. And with the way this tourney is looking to turnout, idk man... I know there are people other than myself who will consider not entering because of all the ruleset changes (not talking about MK)

I think you need certain account status to make polls. not sure. almost drunk

Yeah, you need to be a Mod or higher to make a Poll.


I'd rather vote on the ruleset changes other than MK.
I don't care about experimenting with MK bans, but the ruleset changes is what I care about.

All I want for Christmas this year is to get drunk with my AZ brethren <3

holy shit, come back.

 

[JustinKamikaze]

I mean if he is a TO than yea let him do what he wants but he should care more about the players opinions if he wants a good turnout. Just saying you guys were absent for like 40 or so of AZ's brawl tourneys over the course of 3 years, so you don't know what has all been experimented on already. Its not like we played the same stages/rules over and over for 3 years.

 

[Govikings07]

listening to grit's theme. Yeaaa.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bxm-wqvt18

nice!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <3

 

[Nicknyte]

I mean if he is a TO than yea let him do what he wants but he should care more about the players opinions if he wants a good turnout. Just saying you guys were absent for like 40 or so of AZ's brawl tourneys over the course of 3 years, so you don't know what has all been experimented on already. Its not like we played the same stages/rules over and over for 3 years.

Yep. Oh well. At least you aren't running the tournies, right? lol :D

Grit is a boss.

I am Tommy, look at my avatar.

 

[JustinKamikaze]

I am actually really happy that there are a lot of new players in the scene though that's all that really matters.

p.s. goodjob beating darklink ;p

 

[Govikings07]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhaLzAe95XQ

Just wanted to share a song with you guys <3

 

[DerpDaBerp]

But what's wrong with US experimenting? What's the harm?

Experimenting is great. And fun, surely. There is no loss.
The problem comes when the changes you make wind up doing more harm than good. Jonny said it really well

well no shit i'm not gonna pick them. the problem arises when some asshole decides to counterpick me to some stupid stage and wins not because of skill but because he can exploit the stage against my character. i only have one ban and i already have to decided between two ******** stages. don't add more for no reason.

You say we need to explain why they're unviable. That's not true. You need to convince us why they are viable.

It's not just the stages. The timeout rule change is silly. The bad kind of silly. If we manage to have the same number of stocks, but I've shown through difference of skill that I can deal/avoid more damage, I should win regardless of the size of the margin. I only won because I played gay you may say? Forte v. Rave is an amazing example. Same character, victory via 1%. There is absolutely no other explanation than Rave made the most good decisions, thus earning the win.
You might as well just take stocks away entirely and play it by points.

and we're cool though right?

tsk tsk Tommy, you disapoint me. lol

lol why

 

[Nicknyte]

I am actually really happy that there are a lot of new players in the scene though that's all that really matters.

p.s. goodjob beating darklink ;p

Thanks :D It was a scary match.

 

[TommyDerMeister]

i am tommy, look at my avatar.

lol dat paint

 

[Nicknyte]

How about some Boyz Noize? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwzRLgJorYQ

 

[Dark Shifter]

after reading all of this i have to say...

having mk banned won't help our community. as my ***** darklink said, i heard this through kira, having mk around keeps everyone in check. i interpret this as yes hes the best, get over it, become better because mk makes everyone better. most of the techniques you/every9one haas learend is to just fight sagainst mk. hell look at falco, no one started camping as much with falco until dehf beat tyrant by just camping and falco's metagame sky rocketed after that. having mk around isn't a problem in our state either, me, darklink, jard, meronight, .... uh........ k9. we use mk lol 5 with only 2 real mains laughable at banning him. get better scrub, yes you firefoxmage, im calling you out. get more rep in the scene before you start throwing out such nonsence garbagge about something you know nowthing about. go gtest your stuff, w/e havning mk banned is not a good thing.

tldr; im awesome

edit: if you think that i only win because of metaknkght, then you are more noob than i relized. i have no regrets with what i said. i could apologize later if i feel like it.

 

[JustinKamikaze]

FreeShifter with that DDD <3

 

[Carn]

tldr; im awesome

The tldr made the post lol.

 

[KiraFlax]

I agree that banning metaknight isnt a good idea. Some good advice is play as metaknight for awhile and i promise you that you will get better with all your other characters. Metaknight has almost all the tactics that this game has to offer. learning him WILL expand your mind to all the starategies he can do and to strategies you can do with other characters just by playing him. Its tight that you can learn one character and learn about most of the games tatics and mind games and blah. Id rather have that then HAVE to learn most characters in the game to maximize my mind games (which i did anyways, VERY recomended). Trust me. learn metaknight and many others and your mind will be expanded.

 

[Carn]

I agree that banning metaknight isnt a good idea. Some good advice is play as metaknight for awhile and i promise you that you will get better with all your other characters. Metaknight has almost all the tactics that this game has to offer. learning him WILL expand your mind to all the starategies he can do and to strategies you can do with other characters just by playing him. Its tight that you can learn one character and learn about most of the games tatics and mind games and blah. Id rather have that then HAVE to learn most characters in the game to maximize my mind games (which i did anyways, VERY recomended). Trust me. learn metaknight and many others and your mind will be expanded.

Kira with wonderful words of wisdom.

 

[KiraFlax]

Wisdom is precious stuff man!