Arizona Brawl Power Rankings and Brawl Social Thread (Updated: November 2013)

[Saffy]

Pokemon Battle Revolution
Or Brawl.... Low tier

 

[Silly Kyle]

I would DESTROY everyone in Wii Sports Tennis.

I have Mario Party 8 for the Wii, lots of fun.

New Super Mario Bros. would be fun too...

2 vs 2 tag team Brawl would be even better. <3

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

Dk Speed

I see we have similar games listed

lets do halo 2 v 2 moneymatch

- Super smash bros brawl - MM?
- Blazblue
- Mario Kart Wii - MM?
- Mario party 4 - MM
- Halo 3 2 v 2 (if burts on my team)
- New super mario bros ds (battle mode)
- SSB64 - MM?
- New super mario bros wii 4 v 4
- and most of all BLAZBLUE.

Kyle: Ill so take you at tennis!!

I wanna do Halo 3 the most though

do you have the cord to link two xbox 360's?

 

[DK SPEED DK]

Dk Speed

I see we have similar games listed

lets do halo 2 v 2 moneymatch

- Super smash bros brawl - MM?
- Blazblue
- Mario Kart Wii - MM?
- Mario party 4 - MM
- Halo 3 2 v 2 (if burts on my team)
- New super mario bros ds (battle mode)
- SSB64 - MM?
- New super mario bros wii 4 v 4
- and most of all BLAZBLUE.

Kyle: Ill so take you at tennis!!

I wanna do Halo 3 the most though

do you have the cord to link two xbox 360's?

burt might but im no so sure about halo he is a beast im just average but SSB64 and mario party 4 ill destroy you.

 

[Silly Kyle]

It's on, Chris! Prepared to get ***** hard, without lube or spit!!

Oh... Mario Kart Wii would also be fun too <3

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

dont **** out on Halo

OMG Mario Party 4 MM it is!

 

[Saffy]

I hope your not meaning my prizes go to those because they won't :o I guess I'm gonna do a random drawing from the people who enter ok? So like 1 team from doubles and 2 people from singles at random choice will win stuff ^_^

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

what are you even talking about Safara

This isn't the tournament thread
im talking about MONEY matches

 

[Saffy]

OH MY BAD. LOL well can I do that for the tourney anyways xD

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

thats legit, make it people who dont place though

 

[Dark Shifter]

yall sob's best come to my place monday! might do a fun super secret tourny.... WITH PRIZES!!!

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

lol @ macdonalds gift card as a prize Bryce

WE DONT WANNA GET FAT

 

[Saffy]

LMAO CHRIS XD
Mcdonalds is gross ewww
Ok soo people who don't get top 3? The people who don't win money ? That means you wont get anything lolz

 

[Duff0]

I'm coming Monday, Bryce.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

I'll MM anyone in Pokemon. OU or below. Smogon rules and clauses.

 

[Dark Shifter]

I'm coming Monday, Bryce.

sweetness...

 

[Jar'd]

Does anyone have a copy of minish cap I could borrow? D:

 

[Jane]

I'll MM anyone in Pokemon. OU or below. Smogon rules and clauses.

I'm very tempted... but I probably suck now/too lazy to make a team ;o

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

After reading through this thread and other ones, and doing a lot of analyzing
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258820

I'm really thinking about changing the starter stage list in our region to 7 or 9

At first this seems like an unneeded change but I am doing this for the good of making the game a lot more balanced.

What do you guys think about this change?

Starter

Yoshi's Island [Brawl]
Battlefield
Smashville
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1
Castle Siege
Delfino Plaza

This starter stage list makes matches a lot more fair by helping people who are disadvantaged by the current stage list and by hurting people who are buffed by the original stage list

In their defense, 11 starters is more neutral than 9 and 13 more neutral than 11.

The goal of stage striking is to reduce probability of getting a bad or good starter stage for either character, assuming we are ignoring personal preference ("I hate Lylat!") and both characters strike properly.

As there are many, many potential matchups it is unlikely that we would ever actually sit down and plan it out so we can only adapt based off of what we see. We currently see the tier list literally shifting based off these starters. The rise of Falco, ICs, and Diddy in contrast to characters like Wario is explained primarily by our starters and CP choices limiting the former's weaknesses and the latter's strengths.

So while you may say "9 is great", what would your response to "why not 11" be?

My personal choice is to add additional stages until we get a neutral stage (meaning neither likes/dislikes it based on character, or at least to such a small degree it is irrelevant) and then be done.

MJG, we've been to events together, but I guess I have never talked to you about it. As a player (nothing to do with my views on policy), I hate Final Destination and never ever want to play on it. Not only is the stage super boring (which is a totally subjective statement), but it's horrible for my character and great for characters I don't like fighting very much. I literally don't understand how Mr. Game & Watch is supposed to approach Meta Knight there either; I can make do on every other stage, but on Final Destination, it's just too much. I definitely am inclined to whine about it any time I'm forced that way, and I consider myself lucky G&W and me both are so good on all the CPs because FD basically means I don't have a personal stage ban (I have to use it on FD all the time).

I want to be clear it's not a personal vendetta against ICs players (though boy did lain stomp me). I just think it's dumb that ICs basically get free counterpicks under so many stage rules (when ICs are an extremely stage-dependent character) while my character has his best counterpicks banned and is forced onto his worst stages in the first match. I mean, seriously, ICs are probably better than MK on Final Destination, and no matter how you look at it, ICs don't need help. Making a stage list really biased in their favor is pretty much the same as carefully crafting a stage list to make someone like Snake as powerful as possible (MK and Snake do benefit a lot from those conservative stage lists though).

An example that I think might help. Let's say I made the following really restrictive stage list:

Starter

Norfair
Rainbow Cruise
Green Greens
Port Town Aero Dive
Halberd

Counterpick

Battlefield
Distant Planet
Big Blue
Rumble Falls
Skyworld
75m
Delfino Plaza

Among other factors, I think it's easy to agree that a chief reason that stage list is bogus is because it's basically hand-crafted to make Mr. Game & Watch the best character in the game (or close to it). Even though that stage list would do a great job of making my chances in tournaments substantially better, on a principled level I wouldn't support it because it's just plain not fair to characters like Ice Climbers and makes characters like Mr. Game & Watch artificially buffed. I see the conservative stage lists some regions are trying to push on us all as perhaps less extreme than this hypothetical stage list but going along the same idea... just opposite. A good stage list would set its primary goal as being fair to all types of characters. Sure guys like Ganondorf are bad either way, and the reality of some characters being better than others is unavoidable. However, you want to pick such stages as to keep the game's overall diversity at a maximum, and I feel strongly that including a lot of stages not only induces direct diversity (by having more stages played on) but also indirect diversity (by having more characters viable).

Final Destination, the stage and topic at hand, is largely a symbol of the bias in certain popular stage lists. Yeah, it's a stupid stage in favor of some characters, but I should stress frustrations with FD itself would pretty much disappear if other types of characters also got their stages.

OS, I push for 7 because I think it's a battle I can maybe win (with 7 just being so much better than 5). 11 was what I originally supported actually and would definitely not mind actually playing, though I'm not sold that indefinitely more starters is indefinitely more balanced (at the extreme, you end up with something like 41 starters which is going to really hurt slow characters as they have to strike tons of loop stages). Hopefully this battle doesn't prove futile; Brawl's diverse stages are too amazing to give up on.

 

[DK SPEED DK]

Chris lets do FD and Smashville...and anything without platforms so i can use my naners properly. =)

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Chris, I'm against more nuetrals. Let's please not go back to Midwest mentality when I was in love with the stage list here already. 5 is plenty. 9 is pretty insane IMO.

Plus, no offense to OS or Amazing Ampharos, but I don't agree with them.

I had to deal with this stuff back in Midwest, I'd love it if we could skip it here. If it's not gonna help us when it comes to playing SoCal and Texas, we don't need it. Delphino, Siege, and Halberd are hardly neutral. They are in the same boat as like Frigate, Cruise, and Brinstar IMO. You can attack from under the stage, constantly changing, you can gimp easier, etc.

I feel by putting all these stages on, we give character like MK and Snake an even bigger advantage because they thrive on almost any stage. So increasing the number of stages only gives them the means to **** the lower tiered characters up even more.

Falco, Diddy, and ICs would be hindered, but Snake, MK, Marth, Wario, and D3 would be helped by a large margin IMO. Every other character, for the most part, would probably be hindered by this. (There are exceptions, but not enough to matter.) Since say a character who doesn't thrive well on Seige, Delphino, Halberd, and Lylat has to strike all those stages to even get one they can stand playing Metaknight on. While MK can pretty much have his free pick, since he would be happy to go to any of those above stages. Since his opponent has to waste 4 of his strikes on all the stages MK would **** them on, MK can just pick off all the other characters good stages one by one. Therefore, MK is pretty much guaranteed to play on the stage he wants to play on.

That scenario works for many of the higher tiered characters as well, since D3 wouldn't mind any of the above stages as well. Of course, it's character dependent, but for the most part the higher tiered will thrive even more.

TLDR;

We'll end up on Smashville or one of the original neutrals anyway so why bother?

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

The current stage list helps snake A LOT haha

Their reasoning is really hard to argue against
and anyways, we have plenty of experience playing on smashville anyway, so playing in socal or texas won't be any different (Since SV is the first stage 90% of time)

I'm going to try it at least once and see how it goes

 

[Duff0]

Nothing wrong with some experimentation.

 

[Blood_Hawk]

The current stage list helps snake A LOT haha

I hope that's not implying I'm against it because I use Snake. = / This new stage list is going to make Metaknight a god since he'll pretty much control what stage you go to. Wario, Marth, and D3 are going to be even better.

When we had 9 neutrals back in Midwest, I got to use Lucario even less because MK, D3, and Marth would literally pick me down to stages I'd do horrible against them at and I had no control over where we went. So I had to settle for a character who played well on a variety of stages, like Snake, D3, or Wario.

It'd literally boil down to me trying to minimize what stages a higher tiered character would **** me harder at. I know a stage lists job isn't to make Captain Falcon playable, but I'm just throwing it out there. I just feel you don't try to make an unbalanced game balanced by making it even more unbalanced.

I'm cool with trying it. I just want to make my fears known. Since I experienced it first hand pretty much. Why do you think Midwest is always behind other regions in high level play. It's because we did the same **** in Melee. While the rest of the world was getting better, we were playing on Pokefloats and Mario World II. Thus we fell behind and got rocked every regional we went to. We sure as heck didn't change Melee's diversity playing on janky stages. lol

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

Eh I don't feel like typing a huge long post about this

You saying MK would be god is completely wrong and you're saying that with no reasoning
This new stage would hurt MK and Snake by not giving them such a huge advantage, 3/5 Neutrals MK and Snake **** on.

FD/Castle Siege/Halberd = Not good for a MK
Battlefield/Lylat/Delfino = Amazing MK stages
the rest = Neutral stages

Therefore, the chances for a neutral stage where MK isn't given such a huge advantage is helped with this stage list (Since 3 of the 9 are very neutral for a Metaknight -SV, PK1,Yoshi-)

The current stage list is doing so much as to shift tiers because of characters like GnW/Wario are hindered by the current 5

11 would be the ideal choice anyway, but thats really taboo for the current scene

Again, the points made in that thread make so much sense and are very hard to argue against

 

[Blood_Hawk]

Eh I don't feel like typing a huge long post about this

but yes, this new stage would hurt MK and Snake by not giving them such a huge advantage, 3/5 Neutrals MK and Snake **** on.

FD/Castle Siege/Halberd = Not good for a MK
Battlefield/Lylat/Yoshi's = Amazing MK stages
the rest = Neutral stages

Therefore, the chances for a neutral stage where MK isn't given such a huge advantage is helped with this stage list

The current stage list is doing so much as to shift tiers because of characters like GnW/Wario are hindered by the current 5

You missed Delphino. Also, MK rocks on Halberd compared to other characters. He just doesn't like taking Snake there. That's about it. He would **** every other character there pretty hard due to it being a small stage he can control very easily. He can attack under that stage for crying out loud lol.

Seige and FD are not bad for MK, they just aren't favorable when playing certain characters (There are no bad MK stages, just stages MK wouldn't take certain characters to). MK likes platforms against Wario, Snake, etc, so when they aren't there, he naturally would rather go to a stage that has them.

If you go with your current stage list. MK would love to go to these stages against MOST of the characters in the roster:

Delphino
Yoshi's
Halberd
Lylat
Battlefield

He'd want to avoid FD and possibly Siege (although I think he ***** at siege if he's not playing Snake), since he loves platforms. Getting rid of those two isn't a problem when a character like Lucario would have to strike all 5 of the stages listed above to even hope to play MK on a stage that is neutral for both.


I'm not trying to pick on MK here, just using him as an example since he definitely has the most diverse selection of stages he can compete on.

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

Halberd (halberd is bad for MK, MK dying earlier really helps other characters, and he doesnt have vertical kill moves)

MK ***** on every single stage except FD
its so hard to argue against that
Many characters are versatile on many stages too
since few are really stage dependent characters

This stage list makes the game balanced for other characters!!!!
Stop thinking just about him

That threads logic > your biased logic

SV/BF/FD = Falco's/Diddy's/Ice Climbers BEST STAGES (Well Jungle Japes too for Falco)

again with the 5 neutrals
metaknight is guaranteed a stage he ***** on

but with the 9, theres a way higher chance he'll be taken somewhere that gives the other character a better chance of winning

PK Stadium/Smashville/Castle Siege

 

[Blood_Hawk]

I wasn't being biased. I was more or less just trollin. I really don't give a **** about what stage list we use. I was gonna continue on with this MK thing since you main him, but I don't want you to hate me. lol x3;

 

[Dark Shifter]

i like the more neutral stages

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

It wouldn't matter cause I knew all along that the reasoning you gave was stupid and obviously not very well thought out

>.> you f-a-g

lol

 

[Blood_Hawk]

How very perceptive of you. XD

 

[DerpDaBerp]

I'm down for experimenting with a bunch of new neutrals to see what difference it makes.

If the opinions are still split, a compromise perhaps?
Maybe more neutrals, but only like... 7 total
My vote is for:

Yoshi's Island [Brawl]
Battlefield
Smashville
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Halberd
Pokémon Stadium 1

 

[Duff0]

I'm down with any stage as long as there are no walls or walk-offs

 

[Dark Shifter]

I'm down with any stage as long as there are no walls or walk-offs

pshhh loser XD

 

[Blood_Hawk]

I might not come tonight.

I worked in the Garden Center all day yesterday and moved around 150 giant cinder blocks as well as boards and I'm sore as ****. We have to redo the garden center set up for the new plants that aren't holiday ones. Worst part is, I'm doing it again today too. About twice as many today though. X_X

If I survive I'll be there, but I might just want to go home and go to bed, so I'm making no promises.

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

no johns bloodhawk

 

[__Gold__]

so this week is tourney at chris's right?

 

[The Sage of Shadow: Darklink]

yea look at the date on the other thread lol

its this saturday

 

[Dark Shifter]

once again smashfest at my place today! starts at 4 but show up whenever you want. send me a pm if you need my cell/address

 

[__Gold__]

haha i dont have link >.>