Are You Ready for Advertisement DLC?

[Diem]

I didn't say for certainty that it was added in for that very reason. Just that it probably was, or at least could have been considering the timing. I really don't think they give Sakurai as much freedom as some people think. It's funny to imagine he picked all of the Fire Emblem characters on his own without any suggestions or any input from Nintendo for the memes, but it makes too much sense when you see how much Fire Emblem has been promoted since Awakening. Why else is Corrin in Smash before his game even releases worldwide, but Rex from XB2 isn't despite Sakurai himself wanting him in? Awakening sold extremely well and XBX didn't. On another note, Brawl was pretty much what Sakurai wanted Smash to be. A great casual game that didn't encourage people to play it competitively, but now two entries afterwards, Smash games are being made to be played much more competitively than Brawl.

Actually it makes more sense that Sakurai alone picked the Fire Emblem characters instead of Nintendo.

If Nintendo were calling the shots and looking at things from a more objective, business point of view, why would they put so many chips on Fire Emblem, a series that, while enjoying newfound success, isn't nearly as popular as many of their other franchises in the game? Why would Fire Emblem get way more content than Donkey Kong, which is one of Nintendo's more historic and best-selling franchises? Why not add more Pokémon instead of Fire Emblem characters, since Pokémon is their most profitable franchise? Why add so much Kid Icarus content when the series was totally dead until the 3DS game, which even then didn't sell more than 1.5 million units? Or why would there be weird characters with limited popularity like Little Mac, Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, R.O.B., etc. etc.? Why not fill the roster with characters that are more recognizable and recent?

Awakening's success wasn't necessarily groundbreaking. It sold maybe 2 million units. That's a lot, but not staggering, and definitely not worth three characters and a promo character for the next game. But Sakurai's always liked Fire Emblem--that's why Marth and Roy were in Melee, after all, back when the series wasn't even really known in the West--so that was only fueled by the series' resurgence with Awakening. Kid Icarus content, especially in Smash 4, was also clearly due to Sakurai directing Uprising, rather than a business decision based in the game's popularity.

Corrin's game was released in Japan long before it was released internationally; the game was finished and out in Japan by the time they started work on the DLC. The project plan for Ultimate, though, was put together in December 2015, long before Xenoblade Chronicles 2 was even announced.

Brawl's "casual" nature was due to the Wii's target demographic being casual. Sakurai slowed down to accommodate for that, whereas the Gamecube targeted a hardcore audience. Smash 4 was made faster after it was evident that the Smash fanbase enjoyed Melee's speed more than Brawl, but not too fast because it was on the 3DS as well, and if the game was too fast, it'd be hard to keep track of what was going on. The Switch is going back to targeting hardcore gamers, and so Ultimate is reflecting that.

 

[Sabertooth]

It shouldn't be understated how much Sakurai loves FE, but I think he's also got a soft spot for Mario. There is so much Mario content in Smash, and I know it's Nintendo's biggest series and all so it makes sense, but even then I'd say it's a lot. Some examples: Smash 4 got two brand new Mario newcomers, Rosalina and Bowser Jr, as well as the return of Dr Mario. Smash 4 3DS got four brand new Mario stages by itself when two really would have been enough. Now in Ultimate Mario's getting two more newcomers, Daisy and Piranha Plant.

This is all fine by me because I love Mario, but it's definitely interesting and something to consider when speculating. I'd say Sakurai's favorite three series are Mario, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus; ironic that not even Kirby gets that much content anymore.

 

[Diem]

It shouldn't be understated how much Sakurai loves FE, but I think he's also got a soft spot for Mario. There is so much Mario content in Smash, and I know it's Nintendo's biggest series and all so it makes sense, but even then I'd say it's a lot. Some examples: Smash 4 got two brand new Mario newcomers, Rosalina and Bowser Jr, as well as the return of Dr Mario. Smash 4 3DS got four brand new Mario stages by itself when two really would have been enough. Now in Ultimate Mario's getting two more newcomers, Daisy and Piranha Plant.

This is all fine by me because I love Mario, but it's definitely interesting and something to consider when speculating. I'd say Sakurai's favorite three series are Mario, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus; ironic that not even Kirby gets that much content anymore.

In Melee, I remember hearing him say he didn't want to add too much Kirby stuff because he didn't want people to think he was showing favoritism towards his own creation.

Then in Brawl, he added Meta Knight and Dedede, and gave them some prominence in SSE, so he relaxed a bit then.

By Smash 4, he clearly stopped caring, with large amounts of Kid Icarus content, along with Fire Emblem as well. After all, they're the only two franchises that got Echo Fighters in that game, when other characters could've had alt costumes or Echoes instead.

For Ultimate, he seems to have dialed it back in order to serve what fans want.

 

[YoshiandToad]

In Melee, I remember hearing him say he didn't want to add too much Kirby stuff because he didn't want people to think he was showing favoritism towards his own creation.

Then in Brawl, he added Meta Knight and Dedede, and gave them some prominence in SSE, so he relaxed a bit then.

By Smash 4, he clearly stopped caring, with large amounts of Kid Icarus content, along with Fire Emblem as well. After all, they're the only two franchises that got Echo Fighters in that game, when other characters could've had alt costumes or Echoes instead.

For Ultimate, he seems to have dialed it back in order to serve what fans want.

Okay, so what does this tweet actually tell us?

As far as I can tell, all it rules out is situations like with Solid Snake where their creator asked for them to be in the game.

Nintendo chooses the characters. Okay. .... and? hasn't Nintendo ALWAYS chose the characters? Sakurai works for Nintendo and he's picked them, right? So isn't that Nintendo picking the characters?

I think the difference is Sakurai's always been pretty open that he gets to usually choose exactly what gets in, such as when he asked to include Roy in Melee from looking at concept art, selecting Greninja in a similar manner, and that Corrin was a rarity since his development team asked if they could put him/her in. Now he's stating specifically it's the company choosing these, which is a little odd.

Nintendo normally gives Sakurai free range to put in fighters he deems fit by the sounds of things. I wonder what changed?

As for YoshiandToad none of those guys on your list are getting in, as much as I want Elma, Dillon, a Kirby villain or a Zelda rep beyond the triforces, they don't have a game coming up: **** was finalized today it seems, and unless we're suddenly getting Xeno X Deluxe, a new PM or confirmation that ATs can get in as DLC (they won't,. Sakurai thinks Mii costumes and ATs are 'just as good' as full-fledged fighters) all of that is blind hope bound to get crushed.

I agree Assist Trophies such as Waluigi and Dillon probably are still pretty unlikely, but Rex/Elma to promote Xenoblade 2 DLC is still possible, as only the first piece was released for that already.
Paper Mario gets plenty of new games even after Sticker Star 'killed the series' so I doubt Papes is impossible either. There probably is one in development in all honesty anyway.
Zelda's best chance on getting someone in that isn't a triforce member could well be Nintendo requesting it since Sakurai seems to deem everything else unworthy of a playable role. No specific character in mind, but they have a better chance than if it was all fan picks(everyone's an AT or a background element) or Sakurai's choice(aka no one).

That said; we have double Chrom in the fighter roster thanks to his inclusion in Robin's Final Smash still, Rathalos pulling a double shift as an Assist Trophy and a boss and Riki is both in an assist trophy role and in Shulk's final Smash so nothing is set in stone. As unlikely as I think it is, maybe we'll end up getting someone who had a previous role too whether that be an Assist(unlikely IMO), a background character(slightly more likely), a role in a Final Smash or something else.

 

[Johnknight1]

As is traditional, another bad thread with a bad title and a premise that paints game devs as "evil" is made by someone with less than 100 posts here.

 

[ProfPeanut]

While "The selection was made entirely by Nintendo" is a pretty worrying line that suggest corporate favouritism, I don't think there's any Square Enix character that really fits the bill, assuming Verge is accurate.

Plenty of them have the main hurdle is being potentially too obscure/unprofitable to be chosen (Geno, Terra, Crono), but many of the other candidates have their core games on competitor consoles (2B, Noctis, Lara Croft, Sora), something which I think would make them really unideal as a corporate advertisement choice. If we rule those out based on pure corporate interests, that leaves us with...Slime, or some other evergreen Dragon Quest rep. Which is hardly a bad choice, but it's not a significant moneymaking choice like Sora would be.

What I'm trying to get at is, who would Nintendo themselves choose as a second Square Enix character if Sakurai himself didn't prioritise any for the base roster, and what logic would they be following to arrive at that choice? If we could figure that out, we'd have a better shot of predicting who to expect for the Fighter Pass instead of just assuming it'll all be corporate advertisements.

 

[Sabertooth]

I could really, really see Nintendo adding a Champion from BotW as a playable character. That could be neat.

 

[Cosmic77]

Believe it or not, I'm actually really excited by this move. Nintendo might show some blatant favoritism more often than not, but the fact that they're getting involved tells me they're looking for characters who have the biggest payoff. In other words, if we get a third-party character, then we could expect to see more collaboration between Nintendo and the parent company in the future. If it's a promotional character from an upcoming game, then Nintendo must have a lot of faith in said game becoming a potential top-seller. We could get a new Pokemon from Gen VII, a Three Houses rep (which I'm not too crazy on, but that's besides the point), or dare I dream, a promotional character for Prime 4.

The DLC has left a lot of questions open for me, so this new info has shed a lot of light on things. Speculation will be more enjoyable now that I have something solid to base my predictions on.

I could really, really see Nintendo adding a Champion from BotW as a playable character. That could be neat.

This is an outcome I feel like people have been sleeping on. Even if BotW is slowly approaching its two year anniversary, it continues to drive sales for the Switch. Wouldn't suprise me if Nintendo shows further support for the game by adding in a Champion, and it would certainly make sense if their intentions were to appeal to a broader demographic. Just about half of the people who own a Switch also own BotW.

 

[Zinith]

*cough cough*

Poochy

 

[praline]

I’m sure it won’t just be advertisement dlc. They know the ballot winners so I still expect a couple off that.

 

[Cosmic77]

I’m sure it won’t just be advertisement dlc. They know the ballot winners so I still expect a couple off that.

Nintendo isn't dumb. They've known who was popular long before the ballot even existed.

At this point, I think we should just forget about the ballot. We keep bringing it up, waiting for some type of inevitable wave of ballot-inspired fanservice that may or may not come. It started with, "Smash 4's DLC will be influenced by the ballot," before switching to, "Actually, the NEXT game will make use of the ballot," and now I'm hearing, "Ultimate will use the ballot for its DLC. Just watch."

If this keeps up, we'll be waiting for ballot characters 20 years from now.

 

[praline]

Nintendo isn't dumb. They've known who was popular long before the ballot even existed.

At this point, I think we should just forget about the ballot. We keep bringing it up, waiting for some type of inevitable wave of ballot-inspired fanservice that may or may not come. It started with, "Smash 4's DLC will be influenced by the ballot," before switching to, "Actually, the NEXT game will make use of the ballot," and now I'm hearing, "Ultimate will use the ballot for its DLC. Just watch."

If this keeps up, we'll be waiting for ballot characters 20 years from now.

Waiting for ballot characters? But we’ve definitely gotten 3 already from it.

 

[Cosmic77]

Waiting for ballot characters? But we’ve definitely gotten 3 already from it.

And that's my point. What we already have is likely everything we're getting from the ballot. If you're someone who thinks that wasn't enough and you're still waiting for those final "ballot characters", then I think you'll end up extremely disappointed and frustrated with this DLC.

 

[osby]

Waiting for ballot characters? But we’ve definitely gotten 3 already from it.

The problem is, we have no way of knowing which characters are here because of the ballot, we don't have results. K.Rool, sure, Sakurai said that much. Chrom and Dark Samus, probably. Rest? All of them have other stuff going for them and even were easy additions.

I agree with Cosmic77, at this point, bringing ballot up has very little to offer in terms of speculation.

 

[Arthur97]

I just hope the characters we get can be found on Nintendo consoles. I'm one of those conservative types who still thinks Smash Bros should be a Nintendo fighter first and foremost, and I think they did a preeeeetty good job with that this time (although I would have chosen actual Nintendo echo fighters over Richter and Ken, at least they're on Nintendo consoles). I'm hoping for nothing like Cloud that has nothing to do with Nintendo and only serves to promote PlayStation games.

People keep saying that, but I couldn't find where Richter was ever on a Nintendo system.

It shouldn't be understated how much Sakurai loves FE, but I think he's also got a soft spot for Mario. There is so much Mario content in Smash, and I know it's Nintendo's biggest series and all so it makes sense, but even then I'd say it's a lot. Some examples: Smash 4 got two brand new Mario newcomers, Rosalina and Bowser Jr, as well as the return of Dr Mario. Smash 4 3DS got four brand new Mario stages by itself when two really would have been enough. Now in Ultimate Mario's getting two more newcomers, Daisy and Piranha Plant.

This is all fine by me because I love Mario, but it's definitely interesting and something to consider when speculating. I'd say Sakurai's favorite three series are Mario, Fire Emblem, and Kid Icarus; ironic that not even Kirby gets that much content anymore.

I think Mario gets so much purely because it's Mario. If anything, it should have the most. To me, I'm not even sure how much he likes Mario if at all.

 

[Kevandre]

So long as they fit, I couldn't care if they were advertisement DLC or not.

 

[Kuragari]

Im sure the DLC characters will be awesome. I really like the first one. Though at the same time, I hope Nintendo isn't trying to hold back Sakurai's creativity.

 

[Oddball]

People keep saying that, but I couldn't find where Richter was ever on a Nintendo system.

Right here.

Castlevania Dracula X

 

[lucasla]

I hope to see Rayman and Crash, cause that way we will have all the most important representants of plataform games fighting in one game. And Ubisoft deservers some spot because all the support they give to Nintendo, and Crash... is just Crash, a big rival of Mario since Mario 64, and I want to see them fight!

 

[Dee Dude]

Issac ranked 2nd as the most requested first party newcomer Global wide after K.Rool himself and he didn’t get in.

I think we should stop relying on the Ballot to get false hope up.

Do you really think Ninty would bother to dig up graves like Geno or Banjo?

 

[Oddball]

Didn't mean to make this post. Ignore this.

 

[Mic_128]

Now if Nintendo decides to add idk more generic mooks, Pink Gold Peach

Don't even joke about that

 

[Arthur97]

Right here.

Castlevania Dracula X

Thank you! He's even got the same or very similar pose in his render. Good on you, Richter.

Edit: No wonder I missed it. When I searched it, the first result was Rondo since X is a remake.

 

[MacDaddyNook]

Oh god, let's hope Sakurai isn't trying to be the Rian Johnson of game development...

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Sakurai actually respects the source material of the content he's adapting and is actually good at his job.

 

[S_B]

Issac ranked 2nd as the most requested first party newcomer Global wide after K.Rool himself and he didn’t get in.

I think we should stop relying on the Ballot to get false hope up.

Do you really think Ninty would bother to dig up graves like Geno or Banjo?

Liking this not because I want it to be true but because it probably will be anyway.

The best we can hope for is DLC not releasing a character that breaks the meta to pave the way for SSB6...

 

[Diem]

Nintendo normally gives Sakurai free range to put in fighters he deems fit by the sounds of things. I wonder what changed?

If I had to guess, time. They're offering a pass to purchase the fighters in advance, so they need to have them all decided and developed in a timely manner, not inconsistently. Smash 4's DLC was all over the place with regards to when it came out:

• April 15, 2015: Mewtwo (almost 5 months after the game was released)
• June 14, 2015: Roy, Lucas, and Ryu (sudden dump of characters, helped by the fact that Roy and Lucas are veterans)
• December 15, 2015: Cloud (6 months later)
• February 3, 2015: Corrin and Bayonetta

That's a really annoying-ass schedule. Now imagine selling a $25 pass in advance when the characters are released like that.

So, by deciding all the characters in advance, they know exactly what's ahead, so they can just work on them one after another with no extended period of decision or negotiations involved. No need for a ballot or anything to draw things out, just one fighter every two months for a year.

 

[Sabertooth]

I can't believe how long ago that was now. I remember watching that final Smash direct like it was yesterday, being disappointed in another Fire Emblem character, thinking Bayonetta looked OK and wanting to play on her stage...I was a freshman in college then, now I'm a senior. What the hell happened to the time? Now we've gone through a whole new prerelease cycle of Smash Bros whereas the last one took my entire adolescence to fully complete. Where will I be when the next hype cycle begins? When it ends? When will this one truly end?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Oh **** yes! Everyone, get ready for the next bull**** advertisement for the next poorly crafted FE title! WOO HOO!!!

 

[Makai Wars]

I honestly hate the idea of even more promotional characters because that just means even more Fire Emblem. That being said I have next to no hope for any characters I want getting in so now it's time to support characters like Goku or something.

I think Nintendo is the only force capable of making Sakurai go back on his stipulation of keeping ATs as out of the running for being playable fighters, but don't get your hopes up for a playable Isaac or anything, this just means they'll make Sakurai put in Chain Chomp so Nintendo can promote him a playable racer in the new Mario Kart or something. I simply cannot see a good ending for this unless you're one of those people who are only happy watching other people be disappointed.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

ironic that not even Kirby gets that much content anymore.

'tis a shame, indeed.

 

[SmashChu]

For clarification, here is some of the costumes Nintendo added to Mario Maker

• Yu Ayasaki (Daigasso! Band Bros. P)
• Donbe (Shin Onigashima)
• Hikira (Shin Onigashima)
• Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
• Iris Archwell (Monster Manor, one of the Mii Plaza games)
• Bubbles (Clu Clu Land)
• Volleyball Player (NES Volleyball)

I think we're going to be OK

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Issac ranked 2nd as the most requested first party newcomer Global wide after K.Rool himself and he didn’t get in.

I think we should stop relying on the Ballot to get false hope up.

Do you really think Ninty would bother to dig up graves like Geno or Banjo?

If we’re paying more attention to the Japanese polling though, both Geno and Banjo did significantly better than Isaac. Both of them being top 10 to Isaac’s like 19, which I wonder if it hurt Isaac in that way.

Geno is always going to be in a weird place, but Banjo Kazooie is of a whole different level and fan service and partnership.

Banjo has a way more enticing grave to dig up, because of the fact it represents so many things to people. Plus they could potentially have a deal for a N64 Classic so he’d be the perfect cross promotion/fan request satisfaction all in one.



Still basically no chance he happens in my mind though...

 

[KafkaKomedy]

Very insightful stuff from ProfPeanut and Diem . I'll admit I was in a pretty sour place when making this but I really do think its fair to regard the DLC with heavy suspicion until we get the first character. Although we know Nintendo isn't holding out content from us (They've never done it before and there's no evidence that any of the stuff we know is cut will be brought back later, for cash or not) they are a company still, and that bottom line is ever present. If that first character is good, is something people wanted, I will drop my guard and trust them, but with Online's terrible launch, the looking-to-be terrible online of Ultimate and whatnot, it's obvious they may be incompetent if not at least a little greedy like all other companies. I am surprised this thread has been received well as it has (minus a few hiccups) and feel its important for people not to get their hopes up and get burned for the 5th time.

 

[Fane]

they just don't "fit" IMO.

This is a silly argument against a character's inclusion.

Smash has shown it isn't a specific taste of characters and it is open to a variety of serious, wacky, strange, mature, etc... types of characters. The whole point of Smash is variety and diversity. Nothing is unfit if it can have a moveset.

 

[Sabertooth]

I had a guy try to convince me that a Goomba could never be playable. This was mere minutes after the reveal of Piranha Plant. Some people just don't learn.

 

[Idon]

Nope.

I'm going to be extremely disappointed with Nintendo if this follows through with nothing but advertisements.

 

[lordvaati]

The problem is, we have no way of knowing which characters are here because of the ballot, we don't have results. K.Rool, sure, Sakurai said that much. Chrom and Dark Samus, probably. Rest? All of them have other stuff going for them and even were easy additions.

I agree with Cosmic77, at this point, bringing ballot up has very little to offer in terms of speculation.

K.Rool was the absolutecharacter that we know got in. Inklings were a shoo-in, but they were also very likely voted high as well(note: I voted for them.) Ridley was probably a popular choice in the West at least, and as stated when Bayonetta was revealed some of the top scoring characters on the Ballot were "fighters from previous entries in the series"-mopst likely being Snake, Wolf and Ice Climbers who were heavily requested to return in Sm4sh.

So with the exceptions of Bandana Dee, Geno and Sora pretty much every popular Ballot Vote is in the game already as an AT or a fighter.

 

[KafkaKomedy]

an AT

Yeah that's the issue, I honestly kind of hate what Assists became. Thought they were pretty cool at first but now they seem like a cruel reminder that I'm not gonna get some of the characters I want, hell that a sizable chunk of people want, for a long time. In all likelyhood not this console cycle and beyond. Nintendo could change my mind, hope they do, but know they won't.

 

[osby]

Yeah that's the issue, I honestly kind of hate what Assists became. Thought they were pretty cool at first but now they seem like a cruel reminder that I'm not gonna get some of the characters I want, hell that a sizable chunk of people want, for a long time. In all likelyhood not this console cycle and beyond. Nintendo could change my mind, hope they do, but know they won't.

You weren't going to get them in this console generation anyway, though. It's not like not being an AT magically makes your character DLC.

 

[Sabertooth]

Assist trophies work best with characters like Andross, Dr Wily and Knuckles: cool and beloved side characters who you'd never expect to be playable anyway.