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Are You Ready for Advertisement DLC?

KafkaKomedy

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Recently, Sakurai posted this

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958604818657282

Confirming that a large corporation jointly chose our remaining DLC characters and not someone who actually enjoys video games enough to make a moveset for a single faceless enemy and STILL have it be full of character. As tone deaf as Pirhana Plant was, it seems we'll be getting even worse DLC down the line. Place your bets now, will it be the third parties we don't want, or 5 more mario characters?

Honestly I'm just hoping for Edelgard at this point, at least she'd have a new weapon... And of course, always remember:

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958663316615168
 
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TJ-Works

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Depends on what Nintendo's mindset is with choosing characters. Are they chosen based on highly-requested characters vocalised by fans? Will they be made as tie-ins with other franchises for advertisement sake (as OP said.)? Will they be working closely with third parties to build good business relationsships by promoting their IPs?

Lord knows how Nintendo wants to approach this. The only thing I will believe in is that they will keep the chosen DLC fighters as diversified as possible. My fear is that they will add another Pokemon/Fire Emblem/Mario character when those series already have enough fighter representation.
 
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Jexulus

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Recently, Sakurai posted this

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958604818657282

Confirming that a large corporation jointly chose our remaining DLC characters and not someone who actually enjoys video games enough to make a moveset for a single faceless enemy and STILL have it be full of character. As tone deaf as Pirhana Plant was, it seems we'll be getting even worse DLC down the line. Place your bets now, will it be the third parties we don't want, or 5 more mario characters?

Honestly I'm just hoping for Edelgard at this point, at least she'd have a new weapon... And of course, always remember:

https://twitter.com/Sora_Sakurai/status/1059958663316615168
Nintendo owns the rights to most of the characters currently in the game.
Nintendo owns the rights to Smash Bros as a franchise and Super Smash Bros Ultimate as a game.
Nintendo pays Sora Lt.'s paycheck and for the vast majority of the game's development.

Nintendo has the final say on a great many things. This is not earth-shattering news, this is not the ruination of a DLC pass. This is business. This is Nintendo's decision to make.
 

KafkaKomedy

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Nintendo owns the rights to most of the characters currently in the game.
Nintendo owns the rights to Smash Bros as a franchise and Super Smash Bros Ultimate as a game.
Nintendo pays Sora Lt.'s paycheck and for the vast majority of the game's development.

Nintendo has the final say on a great many things. This is not earth-shattering news, this is not the ruination of a DLC pass. This is business. This is Nintendo's decision to make.
Sure, Sakurai is being payed by Nintendo and they have to sign off on the thing, but Nintendo wasn't the one deciding characters and Sakurai was giving the okay, it used to be the other way around. That's a huge difference and depending on Nintendo's interests could table a ton of fan favorite characters. It's not as doom and gloom as I made it out to be in my OP but its still much less favorable than a man we know loves videogames doing the picks over a bunch of corporate suits worried about their bottom line.
 

Mariomaniac45213

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I actually wouldn't mind a few promo picks considering Spring-Man, Ribbon Girl, and Rex were all deconfirmed in that last direct. I actually think Nintendo making a pool is kinda a good thing. I'm sorry but I don't want Crash, Spyro, Heihachi, Shantae, etc. in Smash they just don't "fit" IMO. If Nintendo is deciding I doubt they get added if anything the only 3rd party I could see making it is Rayman due to the whole Ubisoft/Nintendo love connection going on right now.

Now if Nintendo decides to add idk more generic mooks, Pink Gold Peach, or baby characters then yeah we're in for a world of hurt and am glad I didn't buy the season pass yet.
 

Jexulus

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Sure, Sakurai is being payed by Nintendo and they have to sign off on the thing, but Nintendo wasn't the one deciding characters and Sakurai was giving the okay, it used to be the other way around. That's a huge difference and depending on Nintendo's interests could table a ton of fan favorite characters. It's not as doom and gloom as I made it out to be in my OP but its still much less favorable than a man we know loves videogames doing the picks over a bunch of corporate suits worried about their bottom line.
There was only ever going to be a finite number of characters produced for the game anyway. Not everyone on the ballot or even everyone they'd intend to use as advertisement will get created in the first place.
Also, I'm not sure there's enough proof out there that it was the other way around in every instance before this. That is, did Sakurai present every character and did Nintendo give the final say in exactly that order for every one of them? I'm not sure we know, but I'm certain there's been cases where both scenarios occurred. We have definitive proof that Nintendo decided in this particular instance, but we don't know who those characters are yet. This can be evaluated at the proper time, and it's ultimately subjective whether or not you like the character's inclusion. That I'm not arguing.
 

KafkaKomedy

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In response to both of the above people: I guess it is really just a matter of taste when it comes to who you like in the game. I'd totally be down with Shantae or Spyro and would totally not be down with... well almost any more first parties from series with more than 3 reps, barring Zelda since they've had different versions of the same 3 people for 4 games now. Also to respond to
Also, I'm not sure there's enough proof out there that it was the other way around in every instance before this. That is, did Sakurai present every character and did Nintendo give the final say in exactly that order for every one of them? I'm not sure we know, but I'm certain there's been cases where both scenarios occurred
You're totally right, its just that Sakurai has never brung attention to it, and that seems like an awful sign. You're right though, we just have to wait and see and if its a character I like, I guess I was wrong.
 
D

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I understand how you feel, with Petey Piranha. It was a weird choice. But honestly, I feel that is a bit negative. Sakurai has come this far and so far has done a great job.

Now saying that the next dlc will be crap, or just mediocre, isnt really giving him a chance.
I hate to be that guy, but we should be greatful for whoever gets in. But thats just my take on it.
 
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YoshiandToad

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Speak for yourself pal, I'm totally down for five more Mario characters. Bring on that playable Goomba!

Honestly, I'd be totally down for more promotional characters. Sm4sh did it but unfortunately for me I hated most the Wii generation picks, but adored the Wii U newcomers.

I made this prior to the E3 direct looking at a few characters from the Wii U generation that could work. Now obviously not all were awesome(hello Devil's Third) and obviously some got in but I'd of been down with the vast majority of this list of promotional characters that appeared last generation:

WiiUonly.jpg



Not really sure what the Switch's group could consist of. Maybe swap Susie for Marx, Springman and Rex should be on there too...maybe an Octopath traveller character but no clue who.
 

KafkaKomedy

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"I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection."

I don't think Nintendo only gave him five characters to pick from.
Somehow I doubt they gave him more than 10. Every time corporate reaches down like this they force the director's hand, and as much as I would like Travis to promote his new game or a DAEMON X MACHINA giant robo, I have a feeling they're going to go for another version of Mario and Steve from Minecraft. I know I'm being negative but these are genuine likely things to happen and you know its true, after getting burned by the Grinch and the **** last direct this is the safest bet. As for YoshiandToad YoshiandToad none of those guys on your list are getting in, as much as I want Elma, Dillon, a Kirby villain or a Zelda rep beyond the triforces, they don't have a game coming up: **** was finalized today it seems, and unless we're suddenly getting Xeno X Deluxe, a new PM or confirmation that ATs can get in as DLC (they won't,. Sakurai thinks Mii costumes and ATs are 'just as good' as full-fledged fighters) all of that is blind hope bound to get crushed.
 

Mariomaniac45213

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I know one thing if Nintendo was smart enough to add Dixie to their list based on K.Rool's popularity on the ballot (K.Rool fans most love DKC, Dixie is a part of DKC, all the people who voted for K.Rool will most likely buy Dixie and can promote a new DK game since we know one is in Development) and if Sakurai went ahead and added Dixie like he was originally going to in Brawl. I know I wouldn't ask Sakurai for another gosh damn thing again.
 
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Jexulus

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Somehow I doubt they gave him more than 10. Every time corporate reaches down like this they force the director's hand, and as much as I would like Travis to promote his new game or a DAEMON X MACHINA giant robo, I have a feeling they're going to go for another version of Mario and Steve from Minecraft. I know I'm being negative but these are genuine likely things to happen and you know its true, after getting burned by the Grinch and the **** last direct this is the safest bet. As for YoshiandToad YoshiandToad none of those guys on your list are getting in, as much as I want Elma, Dillon, a Kirby villain or a Zelda rep beyond the triforces, they don't have a game coming up: **** was finalized today it seems, and unless we're suddenly getting Xeno X Deluxe, a new PM or confirmation that ATs can get in as DLC (they won't,. Sakurai thinks Mii costumes and ATs are 'just as good' as full-fledged fighters) all of that is blind hope bound to get crushed.
Considering they had a definite package for each item you're paying for (Character, Stage, multiple music tracks), the decisions regarding not just the content of each of these packs, but the actual format, schedule for release, and decision to include music in the first place had to have been made some time ago. The implication from how Rex's Mii Outfit was announced was that the planning stage for both the base game and the DLC for the first pack had already been determined before Rex was a viable choice internally (we know Greninja was chosen from a very small group of Pokemon that had been finalized design-wise while X and Y were very early in development, for example).

The Grinch leaks had nothing to do with Nintendo or its decisions. I'm aware you know this, but please don't conflate the disappointment from a hoax with what was announced/disconfirmed from the Direct.

Sakurai has at no point stated that he believes costumes and ATs are just as good as being able to play as said characters.

The Direct confirmed there will be no echoes, which means no different versions of Mario.
 

Arthur97

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"I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection."

I don't think Nintendo only gave him five characters to pick from.
This is a good point. Wonder if any of the leftovers might make it in later or maybe as bonus echoes?

Anyway, is Nintendo of all companies really the worst choice for picking them? Do you really think they don't care about games? In any case, I hope this means more first party instead of a third party flood.
 

Jexulus

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Piranha Plant was an excellent choice that broadened Smash's horizons. Change my mind, haters.
Excellent? A bit generous.
Hilarious? Absolutely.

Piranha Plant is the kind of inclusion that only has the intended impact if you went into the Direct with no specific expectations. It's a subversion of traditional expectations, but depending on what your expectations are, your mileage may vary.

BTW, this is not saying a desire for a particular character that may or may not have been in the Grinch leak is a good or bad thing.
 

S_B

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Rayman
Sora
Dante
Hat Goomba
And seven more anime swordfighters

Excellent? A bit generous.
Hilarious? Absolutely.

Piranha Plant is the kind of inclusion that only has the intended impact if you went into the Direct with no specific expectations. It's a subversion of traditional expectations, but depending on what your expectations are, your mileage may vary.

BTW, this is not saying a desire for a particular character that may or may not have been in the Grinch leak is a good or bad thing.
Oh god, let's hope Sakurai isn't trying to be the Rian Johnson of game development...
 
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Jexulus

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Oh god, let's hope Sakurai isn't trying to be the Rian Johnson of game development...
Making a decision specifically for subverting expectations is nothing new. It always depends on the result, how it's executed, and the intention behind it.

It's clear that this was done not out of spite for fans or particular characters, but as a joke, a "WTF" character. The trailer delivered the joke well and demonstrated the effort put into Piranha Plant. Humor and comedy are always subjective topics, but as far as jokes like this go, it was done well.

Also Piranha Plant looks fun as hell and I look forward to dunking my enemies.
 

Arthur97

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Making a decision specifically for subverting expectations is nothing new. It always depends on the result, how it's executed, and the intention behind it.

It's clear that this was done not out of spite for fans or particular characters, but as a joke, a "WTF" character. The trailer delivered the joke well and demonstrated the effort put into Piranha Plant. Humor and comedy are always subjective topics, but as far as jokes like this go, it was done well.

Also Piranha Plant looks fun as hell and I look forward to dunking my enemies.
Move over Ganondorf, the new king of disrespect is here...in February.
 

S_B

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One should expect nintendo to have picked who would make them the most money. That would not necessarily be promotional characters.
I still expect mostly 3rd party characters because DLC offsets the cost of licensing those characters.

That's why it's sad that so many characters people have wanted for a while aren't in the base roster: they're basically going to be waiting for SSB6 for their next chance at this point.
 

Arthur97

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I still expect mostly 3rd party characters because DLC offsets the cost of licensing those characters.

That's why it's sad that so many characters people have wanted for a while aren't in the base roster: they're basically going to be waiting for SSB6 for their next chance at this point.
Maybe, maybe not. We don't have the veterans to go through this time so maybe we'll get some good ol' Nintendo blood in there. Or if one of the third parties is Geno which is still a Mario character at least. Other than that, the only third parties I would really be decently in favor of would be Banjo & Kazooie and Lloyd (Namco does help make it after all).
 

S_B

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Maybe, maybe not. We don't have the veterans to go through this time so maybe we'll get some good ol' Nintendo blood in there. Or if one of the third parties is Geno which is still a Mario character at least. Other than that, the only third parties I would really be decently in favor of would be Banjo & Kazooie and Lloyd (Namco does help make it after all).
I'd be happy with all of those, but I have my doubts.

Maybe Nintendo figured they should save some of the ballot characters for DLC because they'd be more profitable.

Dang, I'm just thinking about how I don't currently know what the hell I paid for in the fighter pass and how much I might regret it...
 
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Al-kīmiyā'

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I still expect mostly 3rd party characters because DLC offsets the cost of licensing those characters.

That's why it's sad that so many characters people have wanted for a while aren't in the base roster: they're basically going to be waiting for SSB6 for their next chance at this point.
This doesn't make sense to me. Why not just make DLC first party and keep all the money instead of offsetting licensing? Are you claiming that third-party DLC will sell more?

Maybe you meant they saved some third-party characters for DLC to use that cost to offset the licensing, but that also seems unnecessary. Wouldn't putting them in the base game increase sales of the base game? Again I come back to thinking you're claiming that third-party DLC will sell more.

I don't think it's clear that third-party DLC will sell more.
 

Arthur97

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I'd be happy with all of those, but I have my doubts.

Maybe Nintendo figured they should save some of the ballot characters for DLC because they'd be more profitable.

Dang, I'm just thinking about how I don't currently know what the hell I paid for in the fighter pass and how much I might regret it...
See, that's why you don't pay for something if you don't know what it is or know for sure you'll want it anyways. Judging from Smash 4, I won't want them all so I'm not getting the pass.

Now, if they release some more classic stages, I would probably buy that pack without knowing.
 

Sabertooth

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Yeah I feel pretty dumb for buying the Fighter Pass. I was blinded by hype. I just wanted to play as Rex and it was the only way!
 

Bolshoi

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I'm expecting at least one more Square-Enix character. If that's Geno, Sephiroth, or someone entirely different (c'moooon Chrono!) I wouldn't dare guess. But every console Final Fantasy (except 8 lol) coming to Switch, I think they're on very good terms right now.
 

ps_

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"This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo." What did they mean by this? Of course Nintendo is going to be solely responsible for Smash's DLC. Did they consult any other companies? Does this mean the newcomers will be purely Nintendo-related properties? Or maybe they tweeted this solely to stop fans from flooding their social media with character reque -



Never mind, now the tweet makes perfect sense.

One should expect nintendo to have picked who would make them the most money. That would not necessarily be promotional characters.
Are you guys ready for Minecraft Steve, Spongebob and Goku?
 
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Bobert

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Nintendo choosing Smash characters to advertise their games isn't new and they have a large say in who gets in Smash in the first place. Sakurai and his team develop the game, but Nintendo owns the whole franchise. Look at Isabelle, Roy, Greninja, and Corrin. Luigi using the poltergust as his grab and throws was probably thanks to higher ups at Nintendo since they need to advertise Luigi's Mansion 3 and the 3DS remake.
 
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Sabertooth

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I definitely shouldn't be the one to decide the Smash roster. I'd choose Rayman and pretty much everyone from the Donkey Kong and Pikmin series. There'd be no variety. Good thing I'm not in charge.
 

Tollhouse

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Most of the newcomers have been fan requests already. We can't have them all because it's not a great idea to only add what the fans want. It limits the development team's creativity. Piranha Plant has more going for it as a fighter than anyone else would've thought. I was amazed by that. I appreciate Sakurai as an artist for making a simple character like that into a full fledged fighter. I'm not saying we should include more minion type characters or anything that's WTF. I just think smash can always use characters that are more outside the box. A lot of the fan requested characters seem similar to other fighters already in the game so I don't see any value in including them. Looking at characters like K Rool, Ridley, Simon, and Inciniroar; they are all incredibly unique. Does the character I want have enough potential going for them to compete with those newcomers? That's what I think about.

I'm personally interested in seeing what Sakurai picked from the character ideas Nintendo gave him. I don't expect these last 5 to be as hype as characters like Ridley, K Rool, or Simon, but I'm sure they'll all be fun and have innovative movesets.
 
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lordvaati

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Well Smash 4's DLC consisted of

Most requested overall veteran(Mewtwo)
Most requested Melee Veteran(Roy)
Most Requested Brawl Veteran(Lucas)
Guest Fighter #1(ryu)
Guest Fighter #2(Cloud)
Promotional Character(Corrin)
Ballot vote/potential promotional character(Bayonetta)

Even with Ninty at the helm, I think at least one popular choice has a chance going by how half of the Sma4sh DLC were requests. I only think we may get like one Promotional character at that, which might be Euden from Dragalia Lost or something, with the other 4 slots being popular choices and/or guests.
 

Diem

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Luigi using the poltergust as his grab and throws was probably thanks to higher ups at Nintendo since they need to advertise Luigi's Mansion 3 and the 3DS remake.
That has nothing to do with "higher ups" at Nintendo. There was a Luigi's Mansion stage in Brawl, and Luigi also had the Poltergust as his Final Smash in Smash 4. It's the one series where he stands out, so of course Sakurai will leverage that to make Luigi more unique from Mario. I'm pretty sure that giving Luigi a vacuum grab isn't a calculated move to get people rushing to buy Luigi's Mansion, but instead a way to incorporate the vacuum into Luigi's moveset without removing any of his unique moves or needing time for design and balance.

Sakurai doesn't really have any higher-ups to begin with. Nintendo knows that Sakurai knows what he's doing, so they give him carte blanche on the series, which is why it's so drastically different from any other game Nintendo puts out (just compare Ultimate to Mario Tennis Aces and Super Mario Party, Nintendo's other two big multiplayer games this year). Even Square Enix and Tetsuya Nomura didn't tell him what character to use, but rather let Sakurai request a character, leading to Cloud instead of some less famous from an older game on a Nintendo platform or a newer character like Noctis.

And as Sakurai stated, at the end of the day, he was the one who decided the fighters for DLC from what was proposed to him, so it was his call on who did or didn't make it into the game. Of course, there's no way of knowing who was on this list and what characters were selected at this point, but it's saying something that Sakurai had veto power as opposed to just being told "Do these characters" like some might imagine.
 

Sabertooth

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I just hope the characters we get can be found on Nintendo consoles. I'm one of those conservative types who still thinks Smash Bros should be a Nintendo fighter first and foremost, and I think they did a preeeeetty good job with that this time (although I would have chosen actual Nintendo echo fighters over Richter and Ken, at least they're on Nintendo consoles). I'm hoping for nothing like Cloud that has nothing to do with Nintendo and only serves to promote PlayStation games.
 
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Bobert

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That has nothing to do with "higher ups" at Nintendo. There was a Luigi's Mansion stage in Brawl, and Luigi also had the Poltergust as his Final Smash in Smash 4. It's the one series where he stands out, so of course Sakurai will leverage that to make Luigi more unique from Mario. I'm pretty sure that giving Luigi a vacuum grab isn't a calculated move to get people rushing to buy Luigi's Mansion, but instead a way to incorporate the vacuum into Luigi's moveset without removing any of his unique moves or needing time for design and balance.

Sakurai doesn't really have any higher-ups to begin with. Nintendo knows that Sakurai knows what he's doing, so they give him carte blanche on the series, which is why it's so drastically different from any other game Nintendo puts out (just compare Ultimate to Mario Tennis Aces and Super Mario Party, Nintendo's other two big multiplayer games this year). Even Square Enix and Tetsuya Nomura didn't tell him what character to use, but rather let Sakurai request a character, leading to Cloud instead of some less famous from an older game on a Nintendo platform or a newer character like Noctis.

And as Sakurai stated, at the end of the day, he was the one who decided the fighters for DLC from what was proposed to him, so it was his call on who did or didn't make it into the game. Of course, there's no way of knowing who was on this list and what characters were selected at this point, but it's saying something that Sakurai had veto power as opposed to just being told "Do these characters" like some might imagine.
I didn't say for certainty that it was added in for that very reason. Just that it probably was, or at least could have been considering the timing. I really don't think they give Sakurai as much freedom as some people think. It's funny to imagine he picked all of the Fire Emblem characters on his own without any suggestions or any input from Nintendo for the memes, but it makes too much sense when you see how much Fire Emblem has been promoted since Awakening. Why else is Corrin in Smash before his game even releases worldwide, but Rex from XC2 isn't despite Sakurai himself being a huge fan of the game? Awakening sold extremely well and XCX didn't. Also, why would they choose anybody other than Cloud? Cloud is blatantly the most popular FF character pretty much ever and no other FF character would come close to the number of DLC sales as Cloud. Sakurai choosing the characters at the end of the day doesn't mean he has full freedom. Nintendo still gives him a list of characters and pretty much just tells him to pick them out, which they pretty much just said outright. On another note, Brawl was pretty much what Sakurai wanted Smash to be. A great casual game that didn't encourage people to play it competitively, but now two entries afterwards, Smash games are being made to be played much more competitively than Brawl. You don't think Nintendo had any say in that at all?
 
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EricTheGamerman

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I'm just kind of going into DLC with an open mind because I've learned not to expect much else. I already got a lot of what I wanted in the base game and that's plenty to keep me content with Smash for the next few years. I'm still supporting Geno and Bandanna Dee since they seem to have the best chances out of my newcomer supports, but I don't know if either are super likely at this point.

I don't have a ton of confidence in Nintendo making those picks because they could be offering even more questionable advertisement picks. Pokemon absolutely needs to stay away from the DLC considering how many we've gotten and it was one of the few series to get a newcomer in the base roster. Fire Emblem, despite having potential to finally include a different user of the weapon triangle, doesn't really feel like it needs another spot either with Chrom's addition. But both are probably extremely high on the list of potential newcomers as advertisement reps.

Nintendo has almost no reason to look at the more fan requested characters left standing at this point, which is truly sad for the community at large. I mean, they could decide to include a couple, but I don't have enough trust in them to go with those picks. Even the coveted Banjo Kazooie feels further than ever away (And I never thought he was close to begin with).

And if they lean heavily on the third parties, who? There are a handful of amazing choices left, and plenty of strange ones to be made when we start bringing them in. While Vergeben seems to have thankfully shot down some of the GranBlue character ideology, whose to say that's the end of Nintendo trying to blatantly market another character through cross promotion like that? Smash is a game with so many big names and guest characters that not just any guest will do in my mind because I'm a stickler for preserving some personally perceived integrity of the roster I guess when it comes to third parties.
 

Oddball

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Okay, so what does this tweet actually tell us?

As far as I can tell, all it rules out is situations like with Solid Snake where their creator asked for them to be in the game.

Nintendo chooses the characters. Okay. .... and? hasn't Nintendo ALWAYS chose the characters? Sakurai works for Nintendo and he's picked them, right? So isn't that Nintendo picking the characters?

Nintendo picking the characters tells u nothing. Did they have a big office poll? Did they sit down with Takeda and Miyamoto? Kimishima? Reggie Fils-Aime? Nintendo has never been much of a stiff guys in suits kinda company so the "board of directors picked these character do to marketing research" explinations don't exactly seem to fit to me, (but I could be wrong there too.)

Sakurai said that he decided based on their selection. Does that mean he was give a big list and told to pick a few characters out of it. Was he give a list of seven characters and told to pick five? Was he just told something like "add a Zelda character and a Pokemon?"

We don't know.

We really don't know anything.

The tweet is a bit too vague for every to suddenly abandon hope.
 
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