Are we giving up on Zelda too early?

[ADAPT Chance]

I agree that you definitely should not play her like Melee or Brawl, I've found out the hard way that it's not the best option.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

lol i **** with zelda iv been practicing dem sweet spot kick to a reliability on the move.

 

[BBNik]

Same here. I am pretty good as zelda. Proper positioning lets you use Zelda best since she needs t for her fair and bair Lightning kicks. Then proper use of the phantom allows yu to control the enemies movements by blocking dash attacks and movements. Allowing you to zone and force them to do certain favorable actios. Then of course teleport for mobility and offensive purposes.

I do love playing her :D

 

[Brinzy]

Another game. Another awful Zelda.

She's hilariously fun to play, but a nightmare to try to win with. As always.

They've made the most dynamic changes to date with this character and she is still horrendous. Cool, they made recovering on this character incredibly easy... and also gutted her dtilt. A slightly misplaced Fsmash still does pathetic damage and leaves you open for punishment even without SDI. Her jab, grab and throws still suck... not sure if they want her throws to KO or "combo" if you can call it that. Her new ability is extremely situational at best and yet another "all or nothing" attack she didn't need on top of all her aerials.

If you want to have fun, have fun with her. I've only lost once with her so far in For Glory, and it was fun playing her. I'm gonna just find someone else to play. /shrug

 

[InfiniteTripping]

It's never too early to give up on Zelda. She needs to be completely re-worked from the ground up. A radical re-thinking, not just patching the tires with a down B that ultimately does nothing for her.

 

[BBNik]

The down+b just needs less ending lag. I mean look at the hydrant; hardly any ending lag, but I do suppose there is a risk of it being hit by you. that's all I think it needs to be viable (oh and hit in front of you).

 

[Brinzy]

The move may have been so much better if they just let it be a charging move like Samus/WFT/Robin B. Right now it just feels like a glorified Din's with a limited application. I have yet to get her customs but I guess the shieldbreaker is nice.

 

[Kayeka]

The Phantom is also useful for providing a temporary shield right in front of you. Of course, in order for that to be actually useful, you'd need less ending lag.

Which is pretty much the answer to all of Zelda's faults, really; less ending lag.

 

[InfiniteTripping]

The Phantom is also useful for providing a temporary shield right in front of you. Of course, in order for that to be actually useful, you'd need less ending lag.

Which is pretty much the answer to all of Zelda's faults, really; less ending lag.

Not really. Didn't Project M lower the lag on her move set? She was top tier for awhile but I think now it's generally acknowledged that her predictability in her move set, with it unable to combo into anything, is another severe drawback of the character.

 

[Kayeka]

I'm not particularly familiar with Project M, so I'll just take your word for it. You're right, though, her lack of combos really hurts her. Doing 20% damage on a single aerial is impressive at first, until you realise that a peach player can rack up up to 50% with only a single combo.

 

[ZombieBran]

The Phantom is a nice edge guarder if you don't feel like Din's (because lol air dodges) or if you can't just kick them to death.

Other than that, I haven't found a use for Default Phantom.
The other two Phantoms are actually useful, though!

 

[shapular]

Do you guys really think Zelda is that bad? I was never a Zelda main like a lot of you guys but I did use Zelda a lot in Brawl (and some in PM) so I think I at least sort of know what I'm talking about. She does have the same fundamental weaknesses as always (except being edgehogged easily), but the difference in this game is that her strengths are a lot better than before. It feels like she finally stands a chance in what would normally be her horrible or unwinnable matchups.

 

[BBNik]

I don't think she is that bad. I think she just has unfavorable matchups versus the speedy guys. And the current presumed top tier are usually kinda fast.

But in my experience against zoners n heavy guys she wins. She can just jump on them with teleport or reflect powerful projectiles or zone the big guys.

 

[onlywonderboy]

I've mostly played PM Zelda and her play style actually seems pretty similar, although the moves feel weaker (shorter ranges/less combo potential). The landing lag on fair and bair is rough and the fact you can usually only get one out while you're in the air is rough. Missing lighting kick is super painful. And I miss 3 Din's Fire :<. I also don't have an opinion on the Phantom because I forget she actually has a down b move haha.

 

[ZombieBran]

Do you guys really think Zelda is that bad? I was never a Zelda main like a lot of you guys but I did use Zelda a lot in Brawl (and some in PM) so I think I at least sort of know what I'm talking about. She does have the same fundamental weaknesses as always (except being edgehogged easily), but the difference in this game is that her strengths are a lot better than before. It feels like she finally stands a chance in what would normally be her horrible or unwinnable matchups.

Yes, she does stand a chance because she's finally not completely awful.
But Zelda players have to play at the top of their game or she falters instantly She is very amazingly punishable if she screws up even a little. High risk and only okay reward.

The fact that she got any nerfs at all (u-smash AND d-smash, why!?) is a bad sign.

 

[Alphatron]

The phantom has grown on me to be honest. I never use it when my opponent is on stage but it does tremendous shield damage, and flat out pokes through certain taller characters like Shulk and Captain Falcon. The fully charged phantom slash covers the edge too, so it will hit stalling opponents. An opponent blocking the phantom at lower charges doesn't leave you punishable because the phantom gets in the way. The fully charged phantom lasts too long to be airdodged through. It's one of my favorite edge guarding tools now.

I don't know why they nerfed up smash range though. Why even bother buffing the move if you were going to make it nearly impossible to hit anybody with.

 

[PrimalCarnage]

RIP Usmash and Dsmash.

Optimistic on Zelda again (...we'll see how long that'll last...) and having fun with her pivot ftilt and fsmash and dair shenanigans. Never thought I'd be leaping off the ledge wily-nily and spiking people with Zelda this often.

 

[ZombieBran]

I keep alternating between optimism and pessimism.
Honestly, I tend to get pessimistic when I play characters like Rosalina.

Phantom is okay, I agree. But I am really loving how safe it can be for her to just go off stage so often.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

zzz....

 

[Rion]

This game seems to be allllll about misguided visual to hitbox tricks.

Link's Clawshot, Meta Knight just -everywhere-, some of Shulk's stuff...

I had the distinct displeasure of realizing Zelda's ftilt misses people if they're too close to her. Good God Smash Bros Team.

Someone better be working on Smash 4 Project M already!

 

[*JuriHan*]

She's a lot of fun but she's flawed as always. Key with her is forcing approaches and good spacing, playing lame and poking with her tilts which can lead to some combos. If she can't force an approach she's in trouble so naturally characters that can out camp her are going to be her worst matchups. I've been working on using her up-b to punish projectile user's ending lag to amend this a bit.

eg. here @ 0:58

I wish her air attacks weren't so situational- they get beat out so easily if not used as a punish/situational. Best to remain on the ground as much as possible.

This game seems to be allllll about misguided visual to hitbox tricks.

Link's Clawshot, Meta Knight just -everywhere-, some of Shulk's stuff...

I had the distinct displeasure of realizing Zelda's ftilt misses people if they're too close to her. Good God Smash Bros Team.

Someone better be working on Smash 4 Project M already!

lmfao, this so much- I thought I was the only one noticing characters going through attacks- there are some very sloppy hitboxes in this game

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

This game seems to be allllll about misguided visual to hitbox tricks.

Link's Clawshot, Meta Knight just -everywhere-, some of Shulk's stuff...

I had the distinct displeasure of realizing Zelda's ftilt misses people if they're too close to her. Good God Smash Bros Team.

Someone better be working on Smash 4 Project M already!

Yep, those visual effects are deceiving: Sakurai said it was to highlight the quick movements, as if they were cutting through the air... But most of the time, air won't kill anybody

I think that Wii Fit Trainer is the only one without those effects. Maybe Olimar too.

 

[ZombieBran]

The wonky hitboxes definitely feel unpolished.
There are far too many of these cases and I don't think it was intentional at all.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

To be fair, Brawl's hitboxes were almost all obnoxiously large for their visible graphics (Zelda's Usmash and large Din's in particular). In Smash 4 they just seemed to take the problem in the opposite direction. >.>

 

[Alphatron]

Looking at Metaknight, those hitbox changes were most likely intentional. Sadly.

 

[onlywonderboy]

RIP Usmash and Dsmash.

Optimistic on Zelda again (...we'll see how long that'll last...) and having fun with her pivot ftilt and fsmash and dair shenanigans. Never thought I'd be leaping off the ledge wily-nily and spiking people with Zelda this often.

lol I do this in PM all the time. Gimping people with a teleburn is about as troll as it gets.

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

So I have been trying a lot of characters and I have finally gotten back to my LoZ roots with Link, Sheik and Zelda... Where as Link and Sheik feel great! ...my gawd what happened to Zelda. I feel she is worse here than in Melee.

I seriously think Nayru's Love doesn't have an active hit box until frame 12. There where so many times she had did a full spin inside Bowser's hurt box before actually striking 3 or 4 times. What the hell is that? Maybe I'm just bad but it really feels like he range on Up Smash, Forward Smash and F Tilt where dropped.

Than I come here and see my fears aren't just me sucking. Like why does Din's fire have a hit box HALF the size of it's graphic? Maybe that's an exaggeration but I really see my self dropping Zelda soon. It's kind of depressing...

 

[shapular]

So I have been trying a lot of characters and I have finally gotten back to my LoZ roots with Link, Sheik and Zelda... Where as Link and Sheik feel great! ...my gawd what happened to Zelda. I feel she is worse here than in Melee.

I don't think it's possible for any Zelda ever to be worse than Melee Zelda. Did she even have any redeeming qualities, other than being able to spam lightning kicks without staling them?

I'm bouncing back and forth between thinking Zelda is bad and Zelda is pretty good. If my game is off it feels like a big uphill battle, but when I'm on she feels pretty deadly. I just unlocked most of her customs last night so I'm looking forward to trying those out. They may make a big difference.

 

[BJN39]

I seriously think Nayru's Love doesn't have an active hit box until frame 12...

You DO realize Nayru's first hit-frame in Melee and Brawl IS frame 12, right? xD

 

[Da Black Rabbit]

You DO realize Nayru's first hit-frame in Melee and Brawl IS frame 12, right? xD

Yeah.... to much PM, I guess. But I think I am being generous. I haven't done more than a classic run through and 4 matches on For Glory with her but she just feels like she got nerfed when she wasn't that great to begin with in other games. The deceptively small hit boxes are really bothering me the most.

Seriously, full turn inside King D3's hurt box before Nayru's Love actually hits. What the hell, man?

 

[BJN39]

Yeah.... to much PM, I guess.

PM? As in Project M?

LOL it's frame 12 in that too.