Apples Or Oranges?????

[sidefx]

lol@ this should be banned...

and no this is definately not easier to do than wobbling... i mained ic's and wobbling is a ****ing joke.

this actually takes practice to do and you have to time it right with your desyncs. yeah im sure after a days worth of practice anyone can do it.. im not saying its impossible.. but its not easier than wobbling.. thats all.

and until an ic's gets 1st consistantly BASED on this technique.. then it shouldnt even be considered to even be brought up to be banned..

as dumb as that may sound.. you have to develop a strategy against it and not get grabbed.. thats about it.

 

[Little England]

vids of Amanita please :]

 

[kouryuuXfighter]

Man... Danny's still upset over the loss he took yesterday. It's almost the same way I feel when I lose to a Snake T_T

My advice to you Danny is to space your fairs and use your Dtilts a lot. Neutral A (slash) works well too for keeping IC away when they are in ur face. Just let one out after a spaced Fair (or any aerial). Dtilts works wonders tho. Ftilt is good too. Try it out next time. Everything else that follows is elementary. Just separate the two and get rid of Nana. You should be fine from there. If that doesn't work... then go MK. MK ***** IC apparently =\

Also, to anyone who might think that Danny sucks... he's actually good lol. He has a combo vid ^_^

 

[NeighborhoodP]

big props to Amanita to making brawl as gay as possible

***** got mad tech skill

 

[araknophobik]

...actually don't ban it
eventually everyone will get frustrated and be like "hey, melee wasn't this gay" and go back =]

 

[GeekY]

agreed with banning. difficulty should be considered im pretty sure it only takes less than a day to spend time in training mode with IC practicing that nonsense.

but to a certain extent, the CG shouldn't be banned if its not abused. i can understand if a player just uses it once or twice to rack up SOME percentage, but not to completely obliterate his opponent. Say around 30% because just like other CG that other characters can do, 30% would be around average. unless your DDD and you got a wall ):

 

[lordXblade]

This is the stupidest thread I've ever seen. It's not a broken tactic. You're not gonna see everyone suddenly switching to IC's because if their CG. It's not game-breaking, it's not unavoidable, and it shouldn't be banned. Banning tactics that don't drastically alter the game to the point where it's unplayable is just ********. Why don't we ban gimps in Melee, or Snake as a character in Brawl?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

I'd like to say a few words.

Difficulty of technique is never a reason to ban/not ban something. That is irrelevant. The chaingrab is fairly difficult - but not even close to impossible to do consistently.

Landing a grab in Brawl is easy. "Avoid the grab" is no longer viable advice for the matchup because Brawl simply does not have the movement options that Melee did. I'd also like to say that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHICH ICE CLIMBER GRABS YOU FIRST. ICs now control the direction that both characters throw.

Also, there is no comparing this technique to the Wobble from melee. Yes, they both take a stock from almost any map position on any character in the game. However, in Melee there were a very large number of variables that would factor into the wobble being successful or even possible. Keeping the ice climbers seperated avoiding the grab making sure that if you are in a possition to get grabbed the ICs aren't right next to eachother so that the wobble is easy to set up etc and these factors simply do not exist in brawl.

The reason that I've lately been seeing this as a bannable technique is because there is simply no risk/reward anymore. I've stated this enough times already, but I figure one more time in text it doesn't really hurt much. In Melee if you were going to attempt to go for a Wobble or even a standard chaingrab with the ice climbers and you ended up being careless in your attempted grab you were in big trouble. You likely just lost a nana or perhaps even a stock. In any case (if you're opponent knows what they are doing) you've just been punished. In Brawl the result of missing a grab (without EXTENDED multiple airdodge predictions/reads) is land a tilt into a small combo that will deal probably on average about 30% or so (and that's a generous estimation). Basically there is a risk of almost nothing for a reward of an entire stock.

Short version.
Map position is pretty much irrelevant. The climber that grabs you is irrelevant. Your perecent is mostly irrelevant (as long as you are above around 30% it works). It is not difficult for ice climbers to land grabs (please not this is not opinion - it is not difficult for any character to land grabs). There is no risk involved in going for grabs. The infinite is not difficult to the point where it is impossible (or even improbable) to get this chaingrab consistently. The technique automatically takes a stock at a possible trade off of 30% for a missed grab.

Ban ic infinite plz.

 

[Miztik]

they only reason i see this should be banned is if the IC players abuse this in tourney game play...which im sure they dont cuz i doubt theres many IC players...

 

[K Balls]

like i said to people and i will say it here.

Every fighting game(if not every, most) is broken in there own unique way. Deal with it. Even i have to deal with it. Its dumb, but i know what i am up against. If you think ic cg is dumb then just dont play in tournament then.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

compelling arguments...?

 

[Rob_West]

GG. Gimpy wins. Just read his post made of awesome.

 

[K Balls]

not compelling arguments if you were talking to me. You have your opinions i have my.

 

[Qzzy]

Preemptive bans are just scrubby. Let's at least wait until it completely breaks tournaments.

And the topic creator just seems like he's grumpy b/c he lost to this. Don't make excuses. Just get better. Or play another game.

 

[sidefx]

has an ic player consistently placed top 3 with this technique? and that doesnt mean one tourny.. untill its been abused to **** and until my neighbor can successfully win tournaments like this.. i dont see any warrant for a ban what-so-ever.

 

[ProdigyKid]

...actually don't ban it
eventually everyone will get frustrated and be like "hey, melee wasn't this gay" and go back =]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4wPybFSu0Lo&feature=related

12:22 - 14:10

Now wouldnt you hate to be Darkrain ;P

 

[Zoap]

so how come you cant pick ics if you're so worried about it? And whatever happened to the good ol destroy nana techniques, shes pretty much as stupid as she was in melee. I think smashers are just getting lazier and rather than find ways around things lets just ban it instead

 

[Miztik]

this is one of those rare times i agree 100% with zoap haha....

 

[Grunt]

Super Troll.

 

[sidefx]

i agree with peter as well.. banning is just creates another weak point in socals metagame.. what happens when you guys go out of state, and come across a cg'ing ic's from another state where it ISNT banned? john it up? or actually figure out what it takes to get around the grabs.. further the metagame and figure out new ways to up your game vs ic's. why give up at the first sight of a roadblock..

 

[mikeHAZE]

i beat that guy in teams^^

 

[Grunt]

Ice Climbers are abusing this to hell and dominating tournies with it? Where?

 

[BrawlBro]

Dont Get Grabbed Xd

 

[Hylian]

Lmao at people thinking I quoted myself. I don't speak in 3rd person.

It's much harder for ICs to grab in brawl. Much much much harder. They no longer have a wavedash. They have a very very short grab range. You cannot powershield with ICs. They have no moves that combo into grab. They have a very slow running speed.

Almost every single character has a move longer then thier grab range. It's soooo easy to avoid being grabbed by ICs in brawl. You just have to space well. I recently played Melee1, who has been winning several tournaments with climbers. In all of our matches, I never let him grab me more then once. When he did manage to grab me, I lost my stock. I still won every match I played vs him.

At a 128 person tournament last weekend it was Melee1 vs Wobbles in the finals. Wobbles 3-0ed him, and I don't remember wobbles being grabbed once. Learn to adapt people. If you get grabbed by climbers then look at your game and figure out why they are getting grabs off on you, and not on other players. Ask the people who are beating the climbers what they are doing.

Improve yourself.

ICs are NOT dominating tournaments with just chaingrabs. Banning something that doesn't hinder the meta-game is not smart.

 

[Lawlb0t]

Melee and Brawl are not the only fighting games with infinite or broken tactics.

It shouldn't be banned, but if it ends up being banned I won't be surprised.

 

[Furbs]

it's been banned in houston, thier first tournament with this rule will be saturday. maybe we should see how that turns out

Edit: LOL hylian i was able 2 use my wii and the neighbors internet! 5!

 

[Fogo]

so how come you cant pick ics if you're so worried about it? And whatever happened to the good ol destroy nana techniques, shes pretty much as stupid as she was in melee. I think smashers are just getting lazier and rather than find ways around things lets just ban it instead

agreed 100%


but you guys can ban it up there if you want, it'll just be easier for us oos'ers

 

[Goldkirby]

I'm starting to see why some SRK peeps have no respect for the smash community. Waaay too ban happy in general. For ****s sake, this technique hasn't even been proven to be broken, and you guys are gonna ban it without more testing? This sounds more like a john of "I don't want to adapt."

Only known people I agree with in this thread are Hylian, SideFX, and Edrees. All the other "pros" are acting like scrubs.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'd like to say a few words.

Difficulty of technique is never a reason to ban/not ban something. That is irrelevant. The chaingrab is fairly difficult - but not even close to impossible to do consistently.

Landing a grab in Brawl is easy. "Avoid the grab" is no longer viable advice for the matchup because Brawl simply does not have the movement options that Melee did. I'd also like to say that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHICH ICE CLIMBER GRABS YOU FIRST. ICs now control the direction that both characters throw.

Also, there is no comparing this technique to the Wobble from melee. Yes, they both take a stock from almost any map position on any character in the game. However, in Melee there were a very large number of variables that would factor into the wobble being successful or even possible. Keeping the ice climbers seperated avoiding the grab making sure that if you are in a possition to get grabbed the ICs aren't right next to eachother so that the wobble is easy to set up etc and these factors simply do not exist in brawl.

The reason that I've lately been seeing this as a bannable technique is because there is simply no risk/reward anymore. I've stated this enough times already, but I figure one more time in text it doesn't really hurt much. In Melee if you were going to attempt to go for a Wobble or even a standard chaingrab with the ice climbers and you ended up being careless in your attempted grab you were in big trouble. You likely just lost a nana or perhaps even a stock. In any case (if you're opponent knows what they are doing) you've just been punished. In Brawl the result of missing a grab (without EXTENDED multiple airdodge predictions/reads) is land a tilt into a small combo that will deal probably on average about 30% or so (and that's a generous estimation). Basically there is a risk of almost nothing for a reward of an entire stock.

Short version.
Map position is pretty much irrelevant. The climber that grabs you is irrelevant. Your perecent is mostly irrelevant (as long as you are above around 30% it works). It is not difficult for ice climbers to land grabs (please not this is not opinion - it is not difficult for any character to land grabs). There is no risk involved in going for grabs. The infinite is not difficult to the point where it is impossible (or even improbable) to get this chaingrab consistently. The technique automatically takes a stock at a possible trade off of 30% for a missed grab.

Ban ic infinite plz.

WArio's fart is no risk and reward: your stock. It should be banned too.
Snake is no risk for any **** he does and reward of killing you at 50%, he should be banned.
metaknights tornado has absolutely 0 risk and a reward of percentage and annoying the hell out of your opponent.
Marth's chaingrab on ness is no risk either, if you miss ness dodged your attack, if you get it, infinite combo to f-smash.

I don't see how you could say to ban this but not to ban these three things. I am not saying it shouldnt be banned, I'm just saying from a logic point of view, there's no reason why we should ban this but allow the items above.

Here's my challenge to everyone in socal. Beat me in tourny with IC. If you're so confident its broken, just pick IC when you play me, and if this is so broken, you should be able to beat me. So prove it. If it's as broken as you guys make it out to be, you should be able to pick IC, use this and get first , second or third going all IC. If you can't, as far as I'm concerned, all it means is that this is a cheap tactic that means IC is top tier. Doesn't make it a bannable offense.

 

[sidefx]

<3 edrees

 

[Hylian]

WArio's fart is no risk and reward: your stock. It should be banned too.
Snake is no risk for any **** he does and reward of killing you at 50%, he should be banned.
metaknights tornado has absolutely 0 risk and a reward of percentage and annoying the hell out of your opponent.
Marth's chaingrab on ness is no risk either, if you miss ness dodged your attack, if you get it, infinite combo to f-smash.

I don't see how you could say to ban this but not to ban these three things. I am not saying it shouldnt be banned, I'm just saying from a logic point of view, there's no reason why we should ban this but allow the items above.

Here's my challenge to everyone in socal. Beat me in tourny with IC. If you're so confident its broken, just pick IC when you play me, and if this is so broken, you should be able to beat me. So prove it. If it's as broken as you guys make it out to be, you should be able to pick IC, use this and get first , second or third going all IC. If you can't, as far as I'm concerned, all it means is that this is a cheap tactic that means IC is top tier. Doesn't make it a bannable offense.

Good **** Edreese.

Of course, no one will bother once they realize how hard it is lol.

It isn't even possibile to develop muscle memory for the Alternating grabs. The timing is different for every single character and %. It's pretty much impossibile to program that **** into your hands lol.

 

[choknater]

"There are not enough technical options to avoid getting grabbed."

This is OPINION, not fact.

My opinion is different.

I say there are plenty of options.

 

[DRaGZ]

so how come you cant pick ics if you're so worried about it? And whatever happened to the good ol destroy nana techniques, shes pretty much as stupid as she was in melee. I think smashers are just getting lazier and rather than find ways around things lets just ban it instead

Nana is waaaay more ******** in Brawl than in Melee. I kill Nana the first chance I get, and it's super easy to do once they're desynched.

 

[Jmex]

Umm... is everyone being sarcastic?

Only a ****** would ban their grabs.

Spoiler

(Xyro77 from Texas)

With characters like G&W and Metaknight, it is easy as HELL to not get grabbed by the brawl IC's, who can't wavedash. Are release grab infinites banned? Is DDD's infinite on Mario/Luigi/Bowser/Samus banned?

Those are easier to do than IC's alternate grabbing. Let me tell you guys this, I have mained IC's and practiced that stuff for hours, and it's still hard.

The two best IC players in Brawl right now, Hylian and VirtualVoid, both mess those grabs up a lot in matches. If you think it's so retardedly good that you should ban... you honestly aren't good enough at knowing how to beat the IC's to stop it.

"Not technical enough to not get grabbed."

Yeah? Well I can say that IC's are not technical enough to freaking get grabs in the first place! They can't wavedash anymore either, people. People with disjointed hitboxes, and higher tier characters like Snake and Rob are ****-hard to grab. IC's seemingly have no chance against them, even if we DO 0-death grab them... they still have the advantage.

Don't let your emotions get in the way, even when you're getting infinite'd. (Which will be rare, because not many people can do it anyway. Kudos to Fly Amanita for practicing it enough.)

If you guys ban it... the general consensus on the IC boards is that you're hurting yourselves. If you go to other tournaments that don't ban it, you will have trouble because you will lack experience in truly trying to avoid their grabs because you didn't fight any IC's who tried to infinite you... because it wasn't allowed in your tournament.

Hylian said it himself... Hes to the point where he dosent mess up more than 90% of the time...

 

[AzN_Lep]

While I think infinites in general should be banned, until it proves to be unbalanced let it be. Once it gets excessively ******** (as wobbling did towards the end of melee) go ahead and ban it. At the moment I don't think that it's game breaking, but it's still pretty dumb. In a game where there are few to no combos, I think ALL infinites should be banned, but it doesn't seem like that's happening. As Edrees said there are plenty of other infinites in the game that no one is griping about.

 

[Fogo]

It isn't even possibile to develop muscle memory for the Alternating grabs. The timing is different for every single character and %. It's pretty much impossibile to program that **** into your hands lol.

you know what, i didn't even think of that. A technique is nowhere near bannable if it's not the same set of motions every time.


socal's banning decisions FTL

 

[sidefx]

so if you ban the infinite.. what do you do against an alternating chain grabbing ice climbers.. ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu43gvZfRmg

hylian's ic's is a prime example of SKILL.. being used to alternate his chaingrabs. to me that is a legit way of winning.. if the guy is skilled enough to preform a different grab after each one.. then he deserves it.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

more importantly can we ban snake already LOL

 

[sidefx]

hasnt japan banned snake?

 

[Little England]

lol Japan is ahead of us in technology and smash xD