Aphorisms and Distinctions

[Oblivion]

Good read.

 

[Masky]

wtf is this

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

Great read. Verm, you're one of my favorite discussion leaders I've ever read posts from. You never talk down to others, you work to elevate them up to your mental level.

Spoiler

Even if you're just trying to have fun and pass the time. :D

And to everyone who's against the use of a more complete vocabulary on the grounds that it alienates people who lack the same grasp of the language: Hush.

The topic is about the joy and potential of language, it only applies to those who wish to learn more about it and better themselves. Of course you'd select more colloquial words if you were to converse with another about something important, but where's the fun in dialogue that's purely verbatim of your peers?

 

[Alien Vision]

I agree with Verm. Everyone should talk like this:

--
A tautegorical colloquy accompanied by ventripotent colligation will not sufflaminate our fundamental mathesis. It allows us to millitate a moliminous amount of conation by commoration.
---

 

[Zankoku]

I don't think that word means what you think it means. Also, you misspelled "militate".

 

[Alien Vision]

I'm only a novice.

Verm has yet to teach me his ways.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

That's not Verma's point, AV.

Like, at all.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Vinylic.]

^^ This is the #1 reason why a stupid arguement starts up on every thread AV posts.

 

[Alien Vision]

I honestly think Verm is stating that it wouldn't hurt to learn incredibly huge words for several reasons.

. - You are able to stay away from a repetitive nature whilst communicating if you have more than one word to describe what you are describing.

. - Having technical terms can give increasingly more of a solid shape to what you are trying to explain.

. - Having big words can sometimes create different effects like different colours. I do indeed like to say ''I concur'' instead of ''I agree''.

. - It can be a form of art.

 

[frotaz37]

Big words are dumb because they aren't part of the natural way most people talk.

Nobody cares if you have a big vocabulary because all that matters is that you communicate efficiently and effectively. Usually, big words USUALLY don't help this cause, they only hurt it.

I can't even remember how many times I've asked a person who won't stop using big words what one of them meant. Every time, they scoff, chuckle and then look around at others in the room as if everyone should look down on me for not knowing a word.

That's just one of many reasons why I usually avoid hanging around people who consider themselves to be really smart.

 

[Alien Vision]

I concur.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I am reading this and

I agree with Verm. Everyone should talk like this:

--
A tautegorical colloquy accompanied by ventripotent colligation will not sufflaminate our fundamental mathesis. It allows us to millitate a moliminous amount of conation by commoration.
---

I honestly think Verm is stating that it wouldn't hurt to learn incredibly huge words for several reasons.

. - You are able to stay away from a repetitive nature whilst communicating if you have more than one word to describe what you are describing.

. - Having technical terms can give increasingly more of a solid shape to what you are trying to explain.

. - Having big words can sometimes create different effects like different colours. I do indeed like to say ''I concur'' instead of ''I agree''.

. - It can be a form of art.

I thought, "welp that was to be expected." Then Frotaz comes along arguing against what AV just advocated

Big words are dumb because they aren't part of the natural way most people talk.

Nobody cares if you have a big vocabulary because all that matters is that you communicate efficiently and effectively. Usually, big words USUALLY don't help this cause, they only hurt it.

I can't even remember how many times I've asked a person who won't stop using big words what one of them meant. Every time, they scoff, chuckle and then look around at others in the room as if everyone should look down on me for not knowing a word.

That's just one of many reasons why I usually avoid hanging around people who consider themselves to be really smart.

I concur.

I just don't understand.

Anyhow, on topic: I don't like learning "big words" because they're "smart" or "effective at communicating higher level ideas", or because I fancy them a "form of art", but because I just live by the notion that it's nice to know as much as one can about as much as there is to know about at the time. It makes life richer and more enjoyable, because you're broadening your horizons. An added bonus is the fact that you'll hardly ever find yourself in a situation where things just got uncomfortable because you either don't know what the other party is talking about or you just don't know what they're saying.

 

[frotaz37]

Don't worry Indigo Jeans, I don't understand either.

 

[Alien Vision]

I don't understand it aswell.

 

[Exceladon City]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG953sCKIPg

 

[Maaaaaaaaaan]

EXCELlent use of Lupe.

 

[Mastermooseman]

heck yeah @Indigo,

best part is I just double click a word and it gives me a definition bubble, using https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mgijmajocgfcbeboacabfgobmjgjcoja.
sooo super handy!

 

[Kaffei]

I agree with this entirely. I try to say stuff but my vocab sux so the words don't come out right. :/

 

[Indigo Jeans]

heck yeah @Indigo,

best part is I just double click a word and it gives me a definition bubble, using https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/mgijmajocgfcbeboacabfgobmjgjcoja.
sooo super handy!

Oooh this looks nice. Thanks bro.

 

[Alien Vision]

1. 
   

   [code][s][spoiler]hippopopoopopopopottttttomontrosesquippedaliophobia![/spoiler][/s][/code]

 

[Wittgenstein]

HI IT'S ME. A DEAD GUY. HAVE YOU READ MY BOOK "PHILOSOPHICAL INVESTIGATIONS"? IT HAS A LOT TO SAY ABOUT LANGUAGE GAMES. (I.E. WHY OP NEEDS TO READ MORE)

(also the compsci example uses wrong definitions and isn't a good analogy)

 

[Theftz22]

Yo Wittengstein your private language argument is balls son.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Yo Wittengstein your private language argument is balls son.

Lmaoooooooooooooooooooooo.

I love you, Underdogs.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Teran]

Big words are dumb because they aren't part of the natural way most people talk.

**** most other people, if people took that approach with everything the world would go nowhere.

Nobody cares if you have a big vocabulary because all that matters is that you communicate efficiently and effectively. Usually, big words USUALLY don't help this cause, they only hurt it.

It depends, some "big words" have subtle nuances that would take a clunky level of description with run of the mill diction. Sure using a big word for that sake that it's big is pretentious and stupid, but if the word fits best, why not use it? If other people can't understand, then they can look it up in a dictionary, it's what we do as human beings, we learn.

I can't even remember how many times I've asked a person who won't stop using big words what one of them meant. Every time, they scoff, chuckle and then look around at others in the room as if everyone should look down on me for not knowing a word.

Well, hopefully that should have motivated you to look things up in a dictionary every now and again. It's not a shameful thing not to know what something means, the bad thing is deflecting the issue and making it about someone else being arrogant. Those people may have been ****s, but it wouldn't hurt to look up the words either. Unless you did but just saiyan.

That's just one of many reasons why I usually avoid hanging around people who consider themselves to be really smart.

People who consider themselves to be really smart usually aren't that smart, people who consider everyone else to be complete idiots are usually the smart ones.

 

[Vermanubis]

HI IT'S ME. A DEAD GUY. HAVE YOU READ MY BOOK "PHILOSOPHICAL INVESTIGATIONS"? IT HAS A LOT TO SAY ABOUT LANGUAGE GAMES. (I.E. WHY OP NEEDS TO READ MORE)

(also the compsci example uses wrong definitions and isn't a good analogy)

Wittgenstein was a hack lol. He was a staunch positivist, and like any positivist, he had his most obvious shortcomings in examining metaphysical subjects. Not to mention that his primary argument focused on the social philosophy of language, not cognition.

One of his most prominent thought experiments on defining the word "game" was inherently flawed, because it neglected the nucleic purpose of macroscopic words: condensation. All of his test subjects failed to return a unanimous definition of the word game because he emphasized the distinctions between them, but, ironically, didn't acknowledge the familial qualities of all of the definitions: a test of ability (which serves as a wonderful example as to why an extensive word-base can help to discern such things). All his strongest thought-experiment did was prove that his test subjects had varying linguistic reference points (e.g. playing catch, chess, etc.). That's why high-order logics were invented, because words contain a mixture of principle and reference, and since reference is phenomenological, it obscures principle. Logic exchanges reference for principle.

But yeah, anyway, Wittgenstein has almost nothing to do with the OP. I just felt like attacking him 'cause I don't like positivists.

No it doesn't. And I think it is!

Edit: And thanks to everybody who liked the read. I'm glad you all liked it!

 

[Wittgenstein]

things

Inability to see through own enculturation / word games... Thoroughly hilarious... Ever heard of linguistics bro? Maybe too busy discovering the metaphysical Truth through phenomenological meditations.

Are you also a dualist virtue ethicist???


edit: just to be clear, my actual thesis: technical terms are great for debate and discussion amongst people who mutually understand them but trying to force them on people who aren't interested based on some Principle of Truth is dumb.

 

[Teran]

Man Wittgenstein is one sneaky bugger, an obvious alt with a totally clean proxy.

FFFFF

 

[frotaz37]

**** most other people, if people took that approach with everything the world would go nowhere.

Whether or not a person takes that approach in regards to communicating efficiently has no bearing on how they approach other things, so it doesn't really matter.

It depends, some "big words" have subtle nuances that would take a clunky level of description with run of the mill diction. Sure using a big word for that sake that it's big is pretentious and stupid, but if the word fits best, why not use it? If other people can't understand, then they can look it up in a dictionary, it's what we do as human beings, we learn.

Why not use it? Because there's a good chance people aren't going to understand it which could lead to unnecessary lapses in conversations, or more likely since some people won't say anything, confusion.

Well, hopefully that should have motivated you to look things up in a dictionary every now and again. It's not a shameful thing not to know what something means, the bad thing is deflecting the issue and making it about someone else being arrogant. Those people may have been ****s, but it wouldn't hurt to look up the words either. Unless you did but just saiyan.

...no, the bad thing is people using complex words and then putting them self above people who don't know the definitions. I don't understand why you're talking about me deflecting the issue when not knowing a word isn't an issue in the first place. Unless you're suggesting it's somehow my fault that somebody decided to be an elitist ***, which is of course ridiculous. All you do by suggesting that is make excuses for douchebags.

The only time I need to know a word is if it's being used, so "looking it up later" doesn't really deal with any of the issues I would have in that very moment. Unless you are suggesting I pretend like I understand and just nod and agree like a tool? Or are you suggesting that I carry a dictionary with me at all times?

Neither of those things are gonna happen.

People who consider themselves to be really smart usually aren't that smart, people who consider everyone else to be complete idiots are usually the smart ones.

If this were true then Smashboards is full of smart people, which is obviously not the case ;P

 

[Teran]

Why not use it? Because there's a good chance people aren't going to understand it which could lead to unnecessary lapses in conversations, or more likely since some people won't say anything, confusion.

Depends on how complex the word is, but honestly, I really don't see why people should be punished for knowing more words. Words that have more specific meanings are the logical choice linguistically, since using them conveys the most accurate meaning with the fewest number of words. I mean, you could hold the same level of contempt for regional slang variations causing problems in communication, but obviously slang doesn't make you looke elitist so it's just like WHATEVER MAN YOU JUST AREN'T HIP.

...no, the bad thing is people using complex words and then putting them self above people who don't know the definitions.

Yes that is bad, but my point was by looking up that word you then learn what it mean,s which could avoid a similar problem in the future. I mean really, children have limited vocabulary, if they took the approach older people were just being arrogant ****s with their BIG GROWN UP WORDS, they'd be stuck with a vocabulary that consists of nothing more than **** OFF MOM I'M PLAYING HALO.

I don't understand why you're talking about me deflecting the issue when not knowing a word isn't an issue in the first place.

It isn't per se, I mean of course it doesn't make you any less of a person, since not knowing something isn't the same as being stupid, but I mean there is an issue, and that issue is that not knowing something may make understanding certain things some people say difficult. What is the problem with increasing your knowledge? You can be offended by their arrogance, but there is a very easy way to rectify the issue if it comes up in future.

Unless you're suggesting it's somehow my fault that somebody decided to be an elitist ***, which is of course ridiculous. All you do by suggesting that is make excuses for douchebags.

The only time I need to know a word is if it's being used, so "looking it up later" doesn't really deal with any of the issues I would have in that very moment. Unless you are suggesting I pretend like I understand and just nod and agree like a tool? Or are you suggesting that I carry a dictionary with me at all times?

Well you can be honest and take the heat if you don't care for the person. You could also pretend, yes, but that is kinda gay isn't it ha, still depends, sometimes the dishonest route is necessary, or rather ideal however you wanna ****ing put it. You could try to grab a possible meaning using the context and stuff, honestly I did that a lot when I was younger then looked it up, often I was pleasantly surprised to see I was right, course, the words weren't exactly DEM BIG ONES but you know....

And no, you don't need to carry a dictionary around at all times, but if you find yourself at a point of limitation that can easily be rectified in a matter of seconds when you get internet access, isn't that a better thing to do than to be stubborn and just say "oh they're ****s so I won't learn this word even though it's just adding to my bank of knowledge which has literally zero harmful effects"

I dunno, when I was doing martial arts as a kid I got scoffed at for not knowing a form by a kid a couple grades higher than me, and of course I could have been like ARROGANT PRICK and not learned the form out of spite and stubbornness, or just learned it because it improved my technique...

Suffice to say I chose the latter, it did me no harm.

If this were true then Smashboards is full of smart people, which is obviously not the case ;P

Yeah but they also think they all know absolutely everything.

I mean, so do I, but I've been clinically dead so obviously I've already lived a lifetime, making me much wiser than most people.

 

[Vinylic.]

Man Wittgenstein is one sneaky bugger, an obvious alt with a totally clean proxy.

FFFFF

It's not Alien Vision.

 

[frotaz37]

Nowhere did I say that knowing big words is dumb or that there is something wrong with a person expanding their vocabulary.

Not ever in any place did I say that.

 

[Teran]

But then what's the point of not using if you know- bah never mind

It's pretty much gonna go around in circles, but all I'm going to finish with is that there is nothing wrong with using big words, being a **** and using big words are not two things that come hand in hand.

Personally I like being articualte, I feel like I've expressed myself much better. If someone doesn't understand and they tell me, I'm fine with trying to explain it as best I can and not be an arse, but to say I should stop speaking English how I want with native speakers is asinine. If the person is a foreigner and doesn't speak English as their first language, I might consider simplifying for obvious reasons, but I expect native English speakers to understand pretty much all of what I say. If they don't I'm not going to feel like a **** about it, whereas I would if I started throwing big words around with someone who can barely string a sentence together.

 

[Wittgenstein]

There is a reason that cross-disciplinary academic journals are not well-disposed towards jargon.

 

[frotaz37]

You should go back and read my first post where I made sure to use the word usually very liberally just so people would have no reason to say to me what you're saying to me.

Being an *** and using big words often do come hand in hand. Obviously not 100% of the time but there is definitely a noticeable connection.

 

[Vermanubis]

Inability to see through own enculturation / word games... Thoroughly hilarious... Ever heard of linguistics bro? Maybe too busy discovering the metaphysical Truth through phenomenological meditations.

Are you also a dualist virtue ethicist???


edit: just to be clear, my actual thesis: technical terms are great for debate and discussion amongst people who mutually understand them but trying to force them on people who aren't interested based on some Principle of Truth is dumb.

If nothing else, my own thesis is to state that the commitment to the discipline of language yields many good things--cognitive function most of all.

You're way out of left field, my dood. I'm not even touching the base of social philosophy aside from the acknowledgment that undefined terms in discourse become counterproductive.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

There is a reason that cross-disciplinary academic journals are not well-disposed towards jargon.

Context and target audience, bro.

DERRRRRRRRRP.

But you were probably too busy beating elementary school kids to grasp that in your lifetime.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Wittgenstein]

Context and target audience, bro.

Context and target audience is precisely my point, MasterChief599. I'm glad that you picked up on that.

Also. The Discipline of Language. Hahahaha. Talking Is Just Like Doing Karate.

 

[Vermanubis]

Context and target audience is precisely my point, MasterChief599. I'm glad that you picked up on that.

Also. The Discipline of Language. Hahahaha. Talking Is Just Like Doing Karate.

That's what just about every intro to philosophy student who's read Russell, Wittgenstein or any of the other of the contemporary positivists says. (i.e. undermining the vast importance of language and rigor)

The major flaw of being a philosophy student: you're taught to think like the progenitors.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I get the underlining point of what you're saying, Verma.

He doesn't.

Smooth Criminal

 

[frotaz37]

The major flaw of being a philosophy student: you're taught to think like the progenitors.

This is true for a student of anything.