Apex Legends Mafia: Boosted GAME OVER Who won?

[fontisian]

Yeah so ordered /s








Oh and font what changed your mind from

1. Xivii agreed you should be on Mala shortly after that.
2. My mind has not changed. The night actions really don't matter, beyind the fact that if you are scum and scum have a roleblocker or roleblocker like ability, then you are that roleblocker. However, scum could have bo roleblocker or your role could be trueclaimed. I at least believe you probably do prevent actions from hitting your target. But there are two many possibilities to care about this when you are behaviorally clear scum and I get to see your exact role when you flip Today anyway.

 

[fontisian]

That's a weird way to ask the question. I'm saying Vic can only be scum if wam is scum and it's an elaborate plan, which I find very unlikely. Therefore Vic is town, but the night action stuff doesn't prove anything about wam without including tone reads in the calculation.


It's still true, but repeating myself to browbeat people isn't my style.

And why is it true, Boom? Explain this to me like I'm five. Why can't a role that hacks investigatives be town in a game with a town tracker and a scum watcher?

 

[Wam]

1. Xivii agreed you should be on Mala shortly after that.
2. My mind has not changed. The night actions really don't matter, beyind the fact that if you are scum and scum have a roleblocker or roleblocker like ability, then you are that roleblocker. However, scum could have bo roleblocker or your role could be trueclaimed. I at least believe you probably do prevent actions from hitting your target. But there are two many possibilities to care about this when you are behaviorally clear scum and I get to see your exact role when you flip Today anyway.

Show me where I was "ordered to target malak".

Prove more people told me that than left options and I will self hammer!

 

[Xivii]

Unvote

 

[fontisian]

Bro, just let the "jailer" do their job.

Very well I shall remain unemployed

Wam

 

[Wam]

2/14 is not a majority and you call that ordering!

 

[fontisian]

2/14 is not a majority and you call that ordering!

What I'm getting out of this is you felt like you could have shot Mala and not gotten yeeted for it.

 

[Wam]

What I'm getting out of this is you felt like you could have shot Mala and not gotten yeeted for it.

You take what you want from it.

But if I'm buddies with bessie why would I target the same person.

Also I will not be on at deadline it is 2am for me.

 

[BoomFrog]

And why is it true, Boom? Explain this to me like I'm five. Why can't a role that hacks investigatives be town in a game with a town tracker and a scum watcher?

Can't is a strong term, and I'd have previously said you can't have masons and innocent child together too, so yeah if this was my only point I would only be suspicious of you not calling for your yeet.

But, your role only interacts with three people and provides basically no actual info besides confirming the watcher and tracker are watcher and trackers. If Bessie had claimed watcher your role would do basically nothing. It doesn't make sense in the setup without more investigatives.

 

[Xivii]

Xivii Xivii is this correct? My impression is that it's obviously wrong, "fake being roleblocked" after being forced to claim is one of the most basic scumplays in the book. I don't see why Bessie or Wm wouldn't have thought of it.

No, again Wam wouldn't know who would get confirmation of his roleblock so he couldn't target anyone outside of Mala/Ryker without the potential of being found out. So no action is an obvious choice.

 

[fontisian]

No, again Wam wouldn't know who would get confirmation of his roleblock so he couldn't target anyone outside of Mala/Ryker without the potential of being found out. So no action is an obvious choice.

Mmm.

My impression of Bessie is that she's very, uh, safe play oriented? Like, she gets concerned about town roles that could interfere with her team and comes up with countermeasures.

 

[Xivii]

I'd like Vic to respond to this:

What's everyone's thoughts on the number of investigative roles in the game?

Which investigatives are you referring to?

And by investigatives I'd say anything that Fonti claims to be able to copy, that gives information: cop, watcher, tracker, etc.

Wait so what are your thoughts on the number of investigatives?

Can you answer this, Vicarin.

What. do. you. think. about. the. number. of. investigatives.

I'm. Not. Answering. That. Today.

YOURE THE ONE THAT BROUGHT IT UP.

And this:

Xivii Xivii So I used my vanillarization on the IC and claimed something that would fall apart as soon as I got investigated or the IC dies, choosing to no-kill as well to support it?

A. How would the chance of being investigated be a bad reason not to claim? How would claimedVic being investigated be different than nonclaimedVic being investigated?
B. Why would you be more likely to be investigated after successfully saving Mala? You really think you'd be anyone's priority to investigate?
C. If you're scum, how would the IC die?

 

[Xivii]

In the first chain, he brought up the investigatives question and then when asked his opinion on it played the "it's not productive for today" card.

In the second, his reasoning doesn't make sense at all. Why would someone investigate the protective role and why would the IC die if he was scum who controlled the kill?

 

[Xivii]

Mmm.

My impression of Bessie is that she's very, uh, safe play oriented? Like, she gets concerned about town roles that could interfere with her team and comes up with countermeasures.

I don't think there's enough data to say. There are too many particulars about Sumting to draw an overall conclusion about how bessie would play as scum. For example, Sabrar and me being her partners changes the dynamics of how she would play. It was also her first time as scum on a new forum with a host she had no experience with.

Thinking about it more though, my reasoning above in #2290 isn't right. Wam could have targeted Ryker and been fine, so there was an option other than not submitting an action. I still don't think it's outside his play to go for the being roleblocked route.

 

[Xivii]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame , bessie was trying to knock down Fonti's permatown read of UP here:

I am really, really certain UP is town.

Xivii and others, for when you're feeling doubts in the mid game.

Look at his process, look at the way he's willing to push against consensus, look at how his perspective comes from genuine feelings he's trying to figure out.

Like really? He’s not pushing very hard, he’s pushing very carefully. But perhaps he will push harder now, now that he sees it meets with your approval.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Man I am not mentally here.

where we at vote wise?

 

[Xivii]

Oh btw despite the wam lynch, Vic knows he'll be alive tomorrow.

Xivii Xivii I'll answer it tomorrow, not productive doing so today.

Otherwise, he wouldn't be so insistent on waiting until tomorrow. He'd be wanting to get his thoughts out all today.

 

[Xivii]

Man I am not mentally here.

where we at vote wise?

It's alright. Vote Vicarin with me.

Vote: Vic

 

[fontisian]

It's alright. Vote Vicarin with me.

Vote: Vic

Xivii.

Vic stopped the kill. His is the only night action that could have.

 

[Wam]

Xivii.

Vic stopped the kill. His is the only night action that could have.

I agree with font theres no way vic can be scum. I agree with xivii that his play is scummy but the kill prevent trumps that.

 

[Xivii]

Mmm maybe. Wam's gonna be lynched anyway, yall don't need me.

 

[Xivii]

Fonti where did you get the idea that wam has a preference for bussing?

 

[Xivii]

Well anyway here is the Stellaris scum chat where bessie and wam were scum: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/bCg34npnD44

Interestingly, their partner, Freezeblade had the same role that wam is claiming here. Additionally, bessie was a janitor, which wam earlier portrayed to be flabbergasted by the idea such a role would exist in a game. Lastly, wam was a ninja / strongman, similar to what Boom speculated here.

So yea, wam is definitely scum.

 

[fontisian]

Fonti where did you get the idea that wam has a preference for bussing?

Didn't he literally say he likes to bus in Things?

 

[Wam]

Theres a big difference in the games. Stellaris the flip was just hidden. Here it was suggested that it was altered. Theres a massive difference between the two. As I said

Depends on the forum but it's on that way. It depends on how it's done. If it's done "xxx role and alignment will not be revealed. That's less ***** than xxx was mafia when they were town.

Those with experience does ryker like gambiting?

 

[Xivii]

Spoiler: Specific Quotes Relating to Bessie Wam meta for Fonti

I did notice no one seems to do scum gambit any more! My thoughts were along the following lines. Claim a 1 shot cop on zenii and then you obscure the reveal? If I need to I can then claim a 1 shot role cop on one of you two?

Honest truth I think I will totally **** up if I try to do a gambit. I just don't have enough experience as mafia, I think like 4 games and 3 of them had day chat. Without you to advise me in day chat it would probably be better if I tried to avoid claiming something. If someone saw me visit Zen I was considering claiming a 1 shot roleblocker, since I could justify it as thinking that if he was so scummy with his claim that he may have decided to do the kill because there was a good chance he would be lynched today anyway. Also gives me a justification for not immediately claiming night results, as I would have nothing to claim.

Role cops are usually scum. I can't immediately think of a game where we had a town role cop, and at least three with a scum role cop.

Understood . I'm not sold yet on doing a gambit as quite often you can end up being too clever for your own good. Good point on the role cop item. If there is something in the town role pms they can use to tell we definitely need a safe version. I will type something up to that effect. I did ask for safe claims and then suzaku pointed out that it was already in our role pms. I don't know about yours but I have "You have come aboard the UNS Ajax as a Leiutenant in the UNE Marine Corps."

I am already working under the assumption that there is another anti town faction, as I did in Secret Santa. And I’m actively scum hunting them.

 

[Xivii]

Theres a big difference in the games. Stellaris the flip was just hidden. Here it was suggested that it was altered. Theres a massive difference between the two. As I said

At the time we were talking about janitor not it being altered, but yea looking back on that quote, I misremembered, it was Mala that asked about it being batard not you, my bad.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

#HBC | Ryker Xivii

UP liked about half a dozen ryker posts, some going directly after sabrar, in the first five pages. this means he atleast did start a re-read but didnt ever feel it important to carry those thoughts into the present and conveg what he got out of the interactions

how does this square with town!UP? Ryker why do you think he liked those early posts?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Guess.

This post gives me chills

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Font vs. Wam is way more ancient a conflict than I remember wow

 

[Eido]

Yo, here's a summary of why I'm leaning Wam, and I hope people can respond to it with thoughts/insights:

Spoiler: wham bam thank you mam

He wanted Ryu to not shoot Bessie, and agreed with Fonti’s plan to let Bessie live an extra Day. This is despite finding Bessie Mafia, and being suspicious of Fonti. His logic in general has been similar to the above — difficult to follow and perhaps opportunistic. I appreciate I don't know him well.

His role competes with Vic’s. Mafia finds out about Wam's role on Day 1 and they ‘block’ him to kill Mala, only to be stopped by Vic instead. That sounds punishing, and perhaps plausible. But if they didn’t find out what Wam was Day 1, Bessie’s Watch could also fail if they chose Mala, shutting down both their options to kill & watch and with no opportunity to even find Vicarin, who could just remain hidden. That sounds VERY punishing, perhaps it's not right then?

He claimed Town Jailkeeper Day 1 and no one added votes to his wagon. Town Jailkeeper is worth more to Mafia than Tracker, right? But it was LaserGuy’s wagon that built up more momentum instead EOD1 (with a surprise wagon on Bessie that came from Ryker/Xivii/Myself).

Setup speculation is obviously a challenge for me. But this is where my head's at regarding Wam.

 

[fontisian]

#HBC | Ryker Xivii

UP liked about half a dozen ryker posts, some going directly after sabrar, in the first five pages. this means he atleast did start a re-read but didnt ever feel it important to carry those thoughts into the present and conveg what he got out of the interactions

how does this square with town!UP? Ryker why do you think he liked those early posts?

He started a reread, realized he was too busy to do anything with it, stopped and replaced out.

 

[BoomFrog]

Freezeblade

Holy **** I've been conflating Freezeblade and FrozenFlame since I joined smashboards...

 

[Xivii]

that is too funny

 

[BoomFrog]

Wam is far more potentially duplicitous then I recall.

I still prefer Fonti, but I'm back down to only confident instead of certain. If wam flips scum don't give Fonti a 100% free pass though.

 

[fontisian]

Wam is far more potentially duplicitous then I recall.

I still prefer Fonti, but I'm back down to only confident instead of certain. If wam flips scum don't give Fonti a 100% free pass though.

Bruh.

I literally do not even know why you think I am scum outside of ****ty mod gaming.

 

[fontisian]

Xivii #HBC | FrozeηFlame Vicarin No shenanigans, make sure the Wam yeet goes through.

 

[Xivii]

So anyone wanna place bets on the scum team. I'll offer an Xbox One S and a year of SWF Premium membership for something of equivalent value.

 

[Malakandra]

Scum team is Mala/ Ryker/Eido

 

[Chaco]

Double checking votes right now, but I think Wam was lynched at #2278.