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Apex Legends Mafia: Boosted GAME OVER Who won?

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
6,520
Location
Mobile, AL
Can you sanity check me on Boom? He feels very off to me Today, and I don't think it's just because he's pushing back against me, but I'd love a second opinion.

If it helps with the Wam thing, I have a strong feeling that Wam was being setup to be misyeeted Today with Mala getting shot.
He mirrored a lot of what I was thinking with regard to your slot. You're coming out really hard in favor of a plan that could blow up in either of our faces (me or Boom) if there exist unaccounted for variables and poses no threat to your slot. It, in fact, leaves your slot holding all the cards. You decide how things are going to be perceived with regard to my slot or Bessie's slot in that interaction. Wanting to go along with that plan, in addition to needing to be completely correct that scum don't have an additional way to **** with it, requires blind trust in your slot.

You've sort of been implying that you deserve that, which is HELLA offputting.
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
He mirrored a lot of what I was thinking with regard to your slot. You're coming out really hard in favor of a plan that could blow up in either of our faces (me or Boom) if there exist unaccounted for variables and poses no threat to your slot. It, in fact, leaves your slot holding all the cards. You decide how things are going to be perceived with regard to my slot or Bessie's slot in that interaction. Wanting to go along with that plan, in addition to needing to be completely correct that scum don't have an additional way to **** with it, requires blind trust in your slot.

You've sort of been implying that you deserve that, which is HELLA offputting.
I mean, if Bessie is town, I'm not holding any cards, I'm only verifying her results? I can't do anything independently of her.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
6,520
Location
Mobile, AL
I mean, if Bessie is town, I'm not holding any cards, I'm only verifying her results? I can't do anything independently of her.
You contradict Bessie, you can get a lynch. You claim you got nothing, you can get a lynch. You DEFINITELY damn that slot if you want. You just don't clear her and let Xivii Xivii off the leash.
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
My primary issue with Boom is related to his flip off of Bessie if Bessie is red.
Yes.

Relatedly, you may not like the plan, but I felt like you were genuinely trying to work it out with me. Boom was just trying to destroy it.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
6,520
Location
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My strongest read based on behavior is Wam, but that's a ****ty one to pursue. I SHOULD be rereading FF. I liked him a lot for helping me run up the votes on Bessie, but I was much more confident in a red flip on Bessie then.
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
You contradict Bessie, you can get a lynch. You claim you got nothing, you can get a lynch. You DEFINITELY damn that slot if you want. You just don't clear her and let Xivii Xivii off the leash.
That's not holding cards. If I contradict town!Bessie to kill her, I get yeeted afterwards. If scum!me says I was roleblocked, I risk getting countered by Boom and, again, yeeted. All that for only one misyeet when I could instead just back and let Xivii tunnel her and Ryu shoot her Today. In a town!Bessie scum!me world, town is already in deep **** andI just need shove it along.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
6,520
Location
Mobile, AL
That's not holding cards. If I contradict town!Bessie to kill her, I get yeeted afterwards. If scum!me says I was roleblocked, I risk getting countered by Boom and, again, yeeted. All that for only one misyeet when I could instead just back and let Xivii tunnel her and Ryu shoot her Today. In a town!Bessie scum!me world, town is already in deep **** andI just need shove it along.
Maybe I'm just better than you. I'm pretty sure I could walk for claiming "I got no result."
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
Further, Boom tried to argue that my role should make me think Bessie is town, which is fairly obviously nonsense. Imo, Scum!Boom was hoping I'd protect Bessie and he'd be able to yeet me for it.
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
Maybe I'm just better than you. I'm pretty sure I could walk for claiming "I got no result."
Yeah, but that literally just puts me in the same position I am right now. Bessie's already on the chopping block, I didn't to do anything except not propose a plan and let her die.

Like, your issue with my plan seems to be that I expect to be more trusted than Bessie, which, uh, yeah, of course I do, I'm not the one on the verge of being daykilled.
 

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
this game is absolutely insane, we have claimed multiple alleged protectives (commuter, hider, jailer, vic's vanillize and turbo protect), and double alignment confirmers (IC and masons), multiple investigatives (tracker and parity cop), etc.

needless to say either scum have some amazing arsenal of tools to navigate this cluster**** or lots of scum claiming in the shared lanes

bessie is 100% a bingo, no ****ing doubt in my mind at this point, literally willing to stake my life on it. if bessie flips town off with my head immediately after Im that ****ing confident, I mean look at this ****:

Just because YOU have never seen this variation of the role doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. I can maybe see your suspicion, but I am very suspicious that you called me a liar and voted for me instead of looking it up. Or asking me a question. Or asking the thread in general if anyone else was familiar with this role.

Edit: Actually I think I’m not going to answer this just to annoy FrozenFlame.

I didn’t receive result that will tell me Makakandra’s alignment. Again, you are scum reading me because YOU don’t understand how the role works.
Ok so 1.) she literally is skimming so hard she didn't see me correct myself about me pushing her for her claimed role title and power not lining up due to my own misconception about the role

2.) blatantly anti town behavior witholding info you literally have ZERO reason to withold having already claimed, just to annoy me

3.) she literally STILL DOES NOT GET WHY ITS SUSS AF FOR HER TO NOT HAVE ALREADY TOLD US WHAT HER RESULT WAS FROM N1 EVEN IF IT ISN'T AN EXPLICIT TOWN/SCUM RESULT. I was literally saying that since she went the "turn parity cop into novice cop" route, she has no reason to not tell us what her result was for mala so we can get the cypher to translate the result as a "town" result

bessie is so ****ing obvscum and the fact we haven't shot her yet is absolutely astounding to me

Ryu's claim seems just like a WAY more powerful version of my claim. Also, and I can't ****ing believe that no one has called him on this, his described role is NOTHING like what a traditional Hider does:


Normal version
The Normal version of the Hider is one of the simplest: the Hider, when they use their ability, cannot be killed by actions targeted at them; however, if their target dies as a result of an active killing action (e.g. a factional kill or Vigilante shot), the Hider will also die.

Variations
A Weak Hider is the original form of the Hider. This modified role is the most common version of this role (to the extent that many people will just say "Hider" to mean the role that has been standardised as "Weak Hider". A Weak role will die upon targeting a scum player, in addition to the other aspects of their role.

Some moderators treat kills performed on a Hider's target as being copied onto the Hider, rather than having the Hider's death trigger off the death of the hidee. This would change the result if, e.g., a Doctor was targeting the hidee directly (the variant Hider would die in that situation, whereas a Normal Hider would survive).

Some moderators cause hiding to apply to things other than kills. This commonly happens defensively; instead of being Bulletproof against direct actions while hiding, the Hider would be treated as a Commuter for direct actions. When treating actions as being copied (as in the previous variation), actions other than kills might also be copied; so the Doctor would now protect both targets, but a Cop would (perhaps unexpectedly) get two results. Note that this variant can lead to action resolution issues.

Other roles that can make their owner immune to nightkills include Bulletproof and Commuter. Meanwhile, the other aspect of the role – dying if the target dies, – has been seen as a modifier in its own right, Regretful.

literally NONE of this tracks to this alleged "totem" mechanic he is describing. What he's describing is just basically a one-shot self protect. He wasn't even specific about if he loses the totem if he deploys it and is not targeted by a lethal action which is a MASSIVELY important piece of information. If he gets to keep the totem upon deployment so long as he actually isn't targeted by a lethal night action, then his role is BROKEN. Literally what meaningful choice is there to deploying if so? He could and should literally deploy the totem every night until he gets hit, and in that scenario, why even design the role that way at all? Just make him a one shot bulletproof and be done with it? His claim literally makes no sense and I agree it very much seems to occupy a similar power space to mine. #HBC | Red Ryu #HBC | Red Ryu you need to clarify this asap because your role does not match your claimed archetype NOR does it even make sense mechanically given what your alleged role seems to be designed to do. And if your totem is just a passive 1 shot bulletproof then your claim of "town hider" is complete bull****

unfortunately Ryu has the gun and I'm obviously not going to be able to convince him to shoot himself, nor bessie if its scum!Ryu and scum!bessie but if he ends up shooting me yall know exactly where the **** to look because these two have absolutely garbage claims

UP literally disappearing after I explained my meta read on him after he EXPLICITLY asked me to explain it is so ****ing suss I don't even have words to describe it. Triss replacing in and tripping up the claim and not being entirely forthcoming about what the slot can do just make me want to yeet the slot that much harder

Daykilling/yeeting anyone outside of these three is absolute ****ing madness, tho I can kind of understand the appeal of getting an instant check on the claimed masons, but doing that literally gives up the very tempo we earned last night

#HBC | FrozeηFlame #HBC | FrozeηFlame Does your protection protect against day kills? Lynches?
no, lethal night actions only

#HBC | FrozeηFlame #HBC | FrozeηFlame What is your opinion of Fonti and Bessie's powers now that the mass claim is done?
bessie is 100% lying, guarantee you she is not a cop in any way shape or form. too powerful in a game with this many claimed protectives, and a tracker, AND an IC/masons

fonti's I can see being real given the known existence of a tracker and your claimed self watch

Frozen seems to be the only one whose role name is the same as their flavor name (sans Tracker for obvious reasons), so fake claim?
this was speedreading mistake on my part, I opened my role PM to make sure I was transcribing my ability and character name and flavor correctly and misread the heading to my PM. It says Wraith, the Interdimensional Skirmisher, Town Commuter. I assumed that since my role was described in the "Abilities" section of my role PM that there was no archetype to pull from the and that only the ability name was relevant, totally get why my claim reads suss to you tho because of that

Ryu's is powerful as heck, ye gods.

Commuter seems pretty simple, it's phasing from MTG. You don't exist while commuted.
This. Ryu's claimed role is WAY more powerful than my claim, honestly shocked that people are more suss of my claim than his

I’m really wondering why Red Ryu has no reaction to frozen flame’s claim and if he’s not going to shoot frozen because it would reveal his role is real and doom red Ryu. But I have little doubt one of them is scum
my guess is he's hesitating to move because he knows he'll catch crazy heat if he shots someone who is town and he knows I would flip town if he shot me. if it's scum!bessie and scum!ryu then it makes even more sense that he would hesitate to shoot her right away AND hesitate to shoot me despite our claim's trying to occupy the same space essentially

Thinking about how hard Frozen pushed Bessie over Laser, it might be better to just shoot Bessie, since that's a good look for Frozen, and then yeet Trisscar if Bessie flips scum.
I think we should just see how things go in the night, day vig bessie, and lynch based off the result.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

bessie flip tells us SO ****ING MUCH about the defectors to the laser wagon and I guaran ****ing tee you its a goddamn bingo

Also, Frozen did push Wam yesterDay. I can't remember if this was pre his claim.

But I imagine that Wam, as Town Jailkeeper, would be high priority to get rid of because he can protect the Innocent Child. LaserGuy mentioned Wam is always in tricky positions on Day 1, so the opportunity to get rid of him as Jailkeeper would be more tempting.
I did push Wam but it was 100% pre claim. granted, I didn't come off him post claim because jailer seemed broken in a game with an IC and claimed masons, and still kind of does, but given our indication of a likely roleblocker out there and the emergent scumminess of other slots I haven't been pushing wam for awhile. The fact that I didn't jump on the laser wagon and infact actively tried to derail it should tell you that I'm not scum trying to pick off the roles that are a big threat to scum night activity
 

BoomFrog

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 23, 2020
Messages
1,493
Fonti if Bessie flips town you are getting autoyeeted. Do you accept that risk?
 

Xivii

caterpillar feet
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
NNID
HBC
Maven - the most obv town to roam the land.

Fonti - I can see Boom's perspective, but I think Fonti's push for the night strategy is a townie wanting to utilize their role and maximize town clears. I also don't think Fonti so adamantly asserts that wam was roleblocked. She'd want to keep a misyeet option open. And if they were partners, I don't think she would feel the need to put herself out there so strongly.

Xivii - I don't really think scum would have this role. Also he's playing all over the place. There's no calculatedness to his method. He's genuinely trying to figure things out and explore all possibilities.

Vic - I think the way he went about his claim was townie.

Ryker, Eido

Triss - Mala's point makes sense to me, but I do think it's sketchy that Triss didn't claim everything initially.

Ryu & Frozen - I think there probably has to be one scum here. I think the way Ryu has been trying to reread despite being busy is townie. I feel like he could have just yolo shot a long time ago if he was scum.

Wam - I'm not convinced wam was roleblocked. I think wam just choosing not to use his action is also plausible. He stated that he would do something like that as scum here. I think the cult speculation is kind of town though, but then again, I think wam may have been the one to bring up the idea of a cult in his last scum game (Stellaris), I'll have to check. Wam isn't a priority for me today regardless.

Boom - His push on Fonti seems kind of too strong, but at the same time I see some of where he's coming from. I think his bessie read and switch to LaserGuy at the last moment are bad looks though.

bessie - I feel like bessie gave up a while ago and has since been playing in a way as to minimize what info we gain from her flip.
 

Chaco

Never Logs In
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May 21, 2008
Messages
12,136
Location
NC
FF2E86E0-E1A0-4261-AB87-2D89CFF5A951.jpeg

250 meters, locked in.

“Breathe in, and exhale while pulling the trigger”


The sound of a .50 Caliber Kraber cracks through the air, followed by Bessie’s shield splintering from the headshot Ryu placed on her.

Bessie, Loba, Mafia Watcher, has been headshot.

Day 2 Resume.

Ill update the votecount in just a few, last baseball game of the season ending
 
Last edited:

Xivii

caterpillar feet
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Jul 20, 2008
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12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
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HBC
BoomFrog BoomFrog how come you asked me and Fonti about who we would shoot? I had another question but I have a group meeting in just a bit and so have been drinking and forgotten.

UP literally disappearing after I explained my meta read on him after he EXPLICITLY asked me to explain it is so ****ing suss I don't even have words to describe it.
To be fair, I can assure you UP's absence has nothing to do with the game.
 

Xivii

caterpillar feet
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
12,902
Location
Kindgom of Science
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HBC
I think Boom is the best lynch by far. He kept trying to get the shot off bessie by putting the shot to a vote. And then he tried pairing Fonti with bessie as a contingency. Also, his switch onto Laser at the end of the day when he thought Laser was town.
 

Vicarin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
319
As Frozen points out, Red Ryu's claim is Sus As Hell. I was voting for Frozen seeing as Red shooting himself was unlikely, but would have liked him dead. Seeing the flip though, gonna have to reread.

Unvote: Frozenflame
 

Eido

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 26, 2020
Messages
395
What do we know about Bessie's Mafia play?

Xivii Xivii You seem to know her well. Can you list anything useful?
 

Vicarin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 29, 2020
Messages
319
Hmmmm.

Why didn't Bessie claim watcher? Thought she'd be more likely to avoid being shot by claiming effectively novice cop? Interestingly, if we'd gone for Fontisian's plan, the gig would have been up instantly with the result not being of the correct format.
 
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