Apex Legends Mafia: Boosted GAME OVER Who won?

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

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Sorry guys fell a bit behind here have had a busy weekend, wont really be able to sit down and do a full reread till late tonight, just catching up on mobile atm

From pages like 13-15 I need to review laser for sure because he most recent posts seem a bit off, wams absence is HIGHLY conspicuous, UP does not at all feel like the town UP I played against in completely vanilla, fontis tone is on a completely different plane from Things I Link which I think should be comforting but has not overcome my trust issues with the slot, xiviis coalition building efforts ping town, vicarin feels coasty and interested in self preservation, need to hear more from red ruy with real takes on any slot that isnt vicarin
 

fontisian

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Sorry guys fell a bit behind here have had a busy weekend, wont really be able to sit down and do a full reread till late tonight, just catching up on mobile atm

From pages like 13-15 I need to review laser for sure because he most recent posts seem a bit off, wams absence is HIGHLY conspicuous, UP does not at all feel like the town UP I played against in completely vanilla, fontis tone is on a completely different plane from Things I Link which I think should be comforting but has not overcome my trust issues with the slot, xiviis coalition building efforts ping town, vicarin feels coasty and interested in self preservation, need to hear more from red ruy with real takes on any slot that isnt vicarin
Who hurt you, Frozen?

Oh wait, it was me.
 

Malakandra

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Vicarin Vicarin I would like your reads on Frozen Flame, Bessie, and Wam as soon as possible and as in depth as possible please.
 

bessie

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I'm a little surprised she didn't take more offense. Bessie typically prides herself on having high-quality content, and for good reason... she usually does.
Noted.


I don't know it for certain, no, but I have a reasonable suspicion of it being the case based on other games I've played here and elsewhere that use a similar system. It was obvious to me that it was a real mod-comment being both bolded and Town colored, so I found it strange that you did not pick up on this and felt the need to clarify.
Perhaps I felt the need to clarify because you specifically pointed it out in your opening post, and voted me for it?


I take it you have forgotten Alien Warfare mafia? We practically solved the entire game just based entirely who knew what about which other faction.
I haven’t looked at that game recently because I am missing most of it (I only have 13/30 pages). I only vaguely remember (my mafia memory too is weirdly selective).

I was thinking of the rule about discussing the actual format of your posts, the things that can’t be paraphrased. I used to be in some mods' standard rulesets. I’m thinking about Vaniliafia (available in Wayback Machine). In that game, it was obvious non-town did not receive the town role pm, the game dissolved into non-town trying to figure out what word was missing from their role pms and posting faked role pms, and one player getting frustrated and analyzing one of the fake pms along the lines of “one word was added to the second line and if this was his real role pm he should have been modkilled for quoting it, and he wasn’t modkilled therefore scum…” with the town player getting modkilled for discussing the exact format of the role pms.

This also came up other times on xkcd, I think Vytron might have been the one trying to skirt the rule and BoomFrog was involved in the discussion, but I can’t remember the game.

I think most of my content in this game has been this discussion about whether or not it is reasonable that I did not notice colors in my role pm and in forum posts in general. And it still is. One way for me to respond to this would involve me screenshotting my role pm, and going through the format pointing out what I noticed and why, and doing the same thing with forum posts. Then screenshotting my private notes and explain how I organize and use those.

The fact that you will not let this go reminds me of arguments I used to have with plytho where he would keep me busy refuting the same points 20 different ways which sucked up all my time. See Crossover Mafia for a good example, where plytho was town. But Vicarin also did this to me in Wheel of Time III, he had me in an argument discussing something about whether or not certain roles would be in a game together, he would not let it drop and prodded me to comb through old games to defend myself, and when I tried to drop it he used that to justify suspicion on me. The discussion sucked up all my game time and took away from reads and Vicarin was scum in that game. Like what you’re doing here. You’re constantly making me defend against something that I can’t, which yes I could ignore, and for which you can scum read me for ignoring “my scumslip”.

I don’t have unlimited time and this response has sucked up an hour. And that’s without rereading the bits of Alien Warfare that I have. And without going through old xkcd rulesets, and without trying to dig up the other game I can’t remember where someone discussed the format of their role pm (“the third word starts with the letter A” or something like that).



Unvote

Vote: LaserGuy




End of Page 14.
Back later.
 

Eido

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UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin Sorry if I'm unclear, I’m thinking of all the events that have happened and how I feel Mafia will want to play around them. My question rewritten is basically: Have the Mafia been responsible for the main talking points today? Have they set the stage?

Or are they in a group of reactionary players that we can identify and narrow down the search? I've put my take on some bits below:

Ryker / Fontisian / Xivii / Sabrar

^ They have set the stage. In Sabrar's case, I've been voting him, but he did put forward a discussion on Xivii that others have used as a talking point.

Red Ryu / Wam / Bessie

^ Feels in their own lane. Their points don't feel part of the wider group chat to me. I think Mafia could fake it here.

Frozenflame / Somitomi / Vicarin / LaserGuy / Maven

^ These are players who haven't advanced the group chat with anything new, or they come across as reacting more to the events around them / catching up. I think Mafia could fake it here.

This isn't ordered, and it's not a list of reads.

Unvote
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Have the Mafia been responsible for the main talking points today? Have they set the stage?

Or are they in a group of reactionary players that we can identify and narrow down the search? I've put my take on some bits below:
I think town has set the stage, and mafia has completely agreed. I know this because I came to the same general consensus as everyone else, and I am town. Because of this, town must have set that stage because it’s similar to my own. By consequence, mafia followed suit.
 

fontisian

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I think town has set the stage, and mafia has completely agreed. I know this because I came to the same general consensus as everyone else, and I am town. Because of this, town must have set that stage because it’s similar to my own. By consequence, mafia followed suit.
What if you just came to agree with mafia?
 

fontisian

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Touché. So I ask you this, which part(s) are you implying that I'm matching to my buddies? If I'm scum just copying other scum's reads, where did it go wrong? I have yet to justify my reads, so let me speak towards some.
No, dude, I think you're town.

I'm wondering about why you, a townie, don't think you could be agreeing with convincing scum.
 

UtopianPoyzin

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Was thinking about what Kary and Acrostic said a bit ago in the discord about reading through DGames archives. I used to stick with games from 2016-2018 but decided to go way back just for fun. So I'll be active for a while, but my responses will probably be a bit delayed because it'll be 5-10 minutes before I refresh my browser
 

Chaco

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Vote Count 1.4:

Wam(2): Laserguy, Ryker
Xivii(2): Wam
UtopianPoyzin(2): FrozenFlame, Somitomi
Bessie(1): RedRyu
LaserGuy(3): Xivii, Bessie, Fontisian
Maven89(1): UtopianPoyzin



Not Voting(4):

Vicarin, Maven89, Malakandra, Eido

Edited for accuracy.
 
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Vicarin

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Ok, requested LaserGuy read from Ryker:

Reread through all his content. Starts with mostly asking small questions, and saying they're against a mass claim. Has a weird irrelevant exchange with Xivii about horror movies. Goes after Xivii with regards to the flavour claims proposal. Fencesits with regards to my reaction to the mass claim proposal. Continues to press bessie about the role pm colour situation, and apparently thinks her responses are scummy because he wanted to execute her at that point. Asks me what I think about the people on my wagon. Expresses suspicion of wam and bessie, and then says fontisian is difficult to pin down. Continues arguing with bessie about role pm colours. Spends time mostly responding to specific questions and asking a couple, then provides a few barebones reads.

I think the worst looking thing for him is the way he's continuing to drill bessie about the PM colours situation; I had to reread the OP before I noticed Malakandra being explicitly mentioned in blue, and some players use plenty of coloured text (looking at Red Ryu here). It just doesn't seem like a particularly productive approach, but it has used up a bunch of time.

I'd also say that he usually tries to drive conversations more than he is in this game. He specifically mentions wanting to take a more laid back approach in one post due to being aggressive not working out in a previous game,

I'm also confused as to why he's reading certain people in the way he is. He reads Xivii as suspicious for hard flipping on Red Ryu when he does the same, just saying that he liked his 442 post, which is barely more than no justification. Doesn't take a stance with Maven, which seems like not wanting to commit to driving a case against someone low activity until he knows what the town consensus is.

Overall, having read through more carefully, I'd say Laserguy's D1 play has been pretty scummy so far, especially more recently. Kind of surprising to me seeing as I've been fooled by his D1 scum play more than once, I usually mostly just default town read him.
 

bessie

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I decided to peruse through a bunch of recent reads lists and started comparing them to my own to see where things differ, and I began to realize, and it’s kind of weird, but most people are on relatively the same page? Like everybody has Mala Ryker Fonti near the top, with Somi, Xivii and Eido a bit down from the top, with Vic and Maven relatively near the middle, and Wam (and unfortunately Sabrar) near the bottom, with slight variations where applicable, i.e. people townread themselves obv. I don’t think I’ve played in a game where so many people are thinking the same things if that makes sense. I don’t know if that means anything or if it’s going to be helpful in the long run, but it was definitely worth noting. This could turn out to be a rather difficult game.
The eerie part being that everybody’s list is so similar. There are hardly any objections, yet I feel decently confident
Malakandara is mod confirmed town. Who is “everyone” on your list? At the time you made this post, I was voting for Ryker. Just going back one page to Page 13, Vicarin’s list Post #494 does not agree, he has Xivii and Maven near the bottom. So your “everyone” seems to be a select group of people. Or perhaps by everyone you actually mean fonti?


What do you have on other players? Did your questions give you an idea where people stand? This is why for most people I have kept to more general questions of reads for most of my prods so I can have stances I look back on or help town if I ever kick the bucket.

By responses, which players? If those questions mattered, did you poke those players on that?
At the time I made the post you quoted, I was referring to Ryker’s refusal to answer the same question multiple times.


And yes, even non answers can be useful, like FrozenFlame's non-answer to this:
There’s not one other post in this entire game that you would consider fluffier? Not one? Even Maven’s #193 which is his entire game content thus far?
Frozen quoted but did not answer my question in Post #404. So #HBC | FrozeηFlame #HBC | FrozeηFlame you want to answer this, or you want to continue to avoid giving a read on Maven's content?


What are you getting out of this? The red flag for me is that it feels like a show to me. I don't see how this is engagement with specific players, nor the Ryker vote where I question why voting him for being "mean" has much to do with the game.
Ok, first of all, my vote for Ryker was in Post #262, and if you go back and read the post, no I didn’t give a direct reason, but I implied that it was for not answering my question (this is my meta style and you can pick an xkcd player or Xivii to confirm). I did explain in detail in Post #436. My snarky remarks at Ryker for being mean to Sabrar did not come until Post #412, after Sabrar replaced out.


You can dislike demeanor, but that doesn't speak to anything related to alignment. I get why people see Ryker as sometimes aggressive and confrontational, but it gets results. You gotta think why he is doing what he is doing. And his actions of Ask about mass claim, voting, his claim and his actions do not read to me as someone doing this for a show. It's someone doing this to get the game rolling and a clear direction. He's good at that.
I was asked by Ryker directly if I was voting for him because I dislike him, and I did not address the dislike part of the question because it is irrelevant. And none of you know what I would answer, so quit extrapolating and attributing your assumptions to my personal thoughts.

Ok, Red Ryu, from your evaluation, what has Ryker done to generate content, and what are the results? I’m not denying that he has, but I would like to know what conclusions you draw from it.

bessie bessie Voting wise what do you make out of Vic? Ryker? Xivii? Utopian slot given the replacement in?
I don’t understand this question. Are you asking my evaluation of these players with respect to their voting?


I think town has set the stage, and mafia has completely agreed. I know this because I came to the same general consensus as everyone else, and I am town. Because of this, town must have set that stage because it’s similar to my own. By consequence, mafia followed suit.
skeptical bessie.PNG
 

Maven89

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@Xivii I am beginning to see what you are talking about with Laserguy as it is prevalent in his most recent posts (also, he doesn't want to be my friend anymore so I will need to find a new friend). I have no history, does he normally tread so incredibly carefully as town?
I've played with Laserguy before, it was a few years ago, but from what I remember he was one of the better town players, he did not act like this in the games I played with him.

Catching up I noticed what Xivii was saying about Laser and agree.

Vote: Laserguy

So as I said before I voted Vic since why not I got nothing better to do with my vote. Curious I don't think people answered me on why they did or did not vote the slot. I need to dig back and see if anyone answered that.

So reading up on the content before I do believe Ryker and think his interactions make more sense for him in his leadership role he tends to fill when he is town. Either that or this is a gambit but I have a hard time wrapping myself with an angle where as scum this would be ideal. I also think people taking issue with him being "mean" is pretty w/e in my eyes and expects from some players reacting to him.

I like Laserguy even if I do not agree with his initial reasoning to signal out Bessie. I still see townie intent there.
Yo I hate these paragraphs. Like, a lot. His Ryker stance is pure padding and his reasons for voting Vic when a wagon had already formed are weak af (I already mentioned this earlier). HIs defense of Laserguy is also weak. I see Red Ryu as a likely partner with scum laser.

I didn't see Vicarin post at all with my catch up, where they at?

Eido Eido Where you feeling like going right now and why? Also side note why were you posting another another mafia game in this thread? Unrelated to the game just odd why right here.

@somitomi Sup, let's chat, do you still got beef with me and me just giving my vote away cause why not lets help? You got an eye for anyone else?

Maven89 Maven89 Come talk to me in the here and now. Whats up, catch all the way up.
I hate all these questions too and see none of them as scum hunting.

@Xivii, I think Laser's content is just kind of fine? He's not as towny as he was at the beginning of Things I Like, but that can be explained by more limited time and him not being in a tunnel. His actual reads whenever I go over them seem perfectly fine. I'm not clearing him, the pressure is useful, but I'm not interested in joining you there right now.
I don't see this post as being partners with Scum-laser, it's too openly defensive yet acknowledging it's own weakness in that defense.

Town: Ryker, Xivii, Malkalkalkjalkjalksjlkdjflkanbish, Font

Scummy: Laser, Red Ryu

I'm not a real fan of Utopian's posts, but they're more just pinging me in an odd way.

I initially liked Vic's content against the mass claim, but he seemed to just vanish when that was done and the discussion moved more towards hunting mafia. Wam moved from null to a semi town-lean-null mix.

I'm going to do an ISO on Vic, Utopian/Sabar and Red Ryu tomorrow as well as look more at Wam. Somi/bessi are largely null and neither left a real impression on me.
 

Maven89

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That Xivii town read should actually be "Town read with caution" cause that **** could be anything with Xivii

Ask me anything you want, I've caught up in a game in the first time of what I think is over a year
 

Vicarin

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Is there any reason we should believe that your passive ability works as claimed and is on a town player?
 

fontisian

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That Xivii town read should actually be "Town read with caution" cause that **** could be anything with Xivii

Ask me anything you want, I've caught up in a game in the first time of what I think is over a year
So, are you just a self-conscious kind of player?
 

Vicarin

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Hard to verify without probably wasting something though. And its utility is way, way higher for scum than town (who really want nonlethal abilities to work on them).
 

fontisian

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Hard to verify without probably wasting something though. And its utility is way, way higher for scum than town (who really want nonlethal abilities to work on them).
It's a negative town utility role. Presumably, we need some of those, because if every town had something useful this would be a steamroll.

It's not as useful for scum as you might think. And it's more verifiable than you realize.
 

Vicarin

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Seems plenty useful if you're believing the claim. I'll take your word for the latter statement.
 

fontisian

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Town
fonti
Mala
Xivii
Ryker
Eido
UP
Maven
Somitomi

Meh
Vicarin
FrozenFlame

Not Town
Bessie
Red Ryu
Wam
Laserguy

Now we're getting somewhere.

My vote is on Laser, Chaco Chaco .
 

fontisian

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Font how did my last post lead you to believe my claim?
It wasn't your last post, I just thought about it more.

I know that you are as a town player are generally inactive and behind the thread. You are thus usually concerned about being misyeeted. As scum, your claim may have been an attempt to clear yourself early or get ahead of a massclaim. But it wasn't that. You were genuinely worried you would get scumread off your claim, so your desire to counterbalance it with content and subsequent claim when you realized you weren't going to get that content out in a timely manner make sense. You are not scum who believes the claim will help you in any way, you are town who believes you have to get the claim out Today to avoid other town wasting their actions on you and who is worried you'll be yeeted for making it.
 

LaserGuy

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Interesting developments. I'm a little suspicious how many votes appeared so quickly off of Xivii's paper-thin case on me. Maven's vote in particular looks very suspicious for reasons discussed below, but I wouldn't be wholly surprised if there wasn't at least one more scum in there.

With four votes already and one or two people seeming to express an interest they will join, I imagine I will be claiming soon, but I will wait until King Malakandra Malakandra says I should.

Was hoping to get through all of these but ran out of time. So Vic, bessie and Xivii will have to wait until tomorrow. Sorry Ryker.

Reads so far:

Malakandra - Confirmed Town.

Ryker - Claimed mason. Play seems very consistent with his claim and was townreading him before his claim anyway. Very likely Town.

somitomi - His content is typically light and often makes him kind of lynchbaity, but he is fairly easy to read on tone. somitomi has a very noticeable difference in style in his scum play compared to his Town play, particularly in that he is much more businesslike and his posts come across as much more polished as mafia. Likely Town.

fontisian - fonti seems to be playing a much more straightforward game in the vein Midnight Ops rather than TIL. One thing I noticed fairly early on is that she was very willing to commit to Townreads (e.g. here, here, here, here), whereas on TIL she seemed much cagier about commiting to her opinions. I can't rule out entirely that this is still in her scum range as she's really impressed me in the last two games, and if this game goes long and poorly this is probably going to be the first slot I will revisit, but at this point I think she's Town.

FrozenFlame - Content is light but nothing really stands out to me as problematic and his analysis has felt pretty solid to me. Tonally I don't get any weird vibes from him. Would like to see more from him but he's a Town lean for now.

Sabrar/UP - Activity/engagement levels from Sabrar are much more consistent with his Town play than his scum play in SS and tonally he feels fine to me. Doesn't scream Town!Sabrar as much as his last game did, but I don't have a problem with what I see. His case on Xivii is good, and generally I feel Sabrar comes out looking better overall in this exchange. His claim is verified and is plausible as both a Town and scum role so I'm not putting a lot of weight on that. UP's content so far looks fine and I think him coming out with a strong statement about townreading me when I'm being pushed is probably not what scum wants to be doing here. Town lean.

Eido - Asks a lot of good questions, hasn't committed to a lot of opinions. Doesn't strike me as obviously newbie Town. Need to see more concrete opinions from him to be able to get a better sense of him. NullTown.

Eido Eido , could you give an ordered list of who you feel is most likely Town/scum?

Red Ryu - Content was pretty poor up to #442. Subsequent content has been somewhat better as he seems to be actually trying to sort people and make some waves. Haven't played with him before outside of Crossover (he was mafia) and I don't really recall much about him that game other than that he was kind of on the bubble for most of the game but we could never quite yeet him. Will probably end up deferring to one of the #HBC people I trust on this one. NullTown for now.

wam
- Push on fonti doesn't look great. Was still fairly early in the game and several people had much worse content than fonti (e.g. Ryu/Maven), so this doesn't come across as a particularly Town-motivated push. Not much to go on from more recent content. I agree with Xivii's meta that his content does look more polished this game, but I'm less certain that his engagement levels are consistent with this. Also this meta is very publicly known so it's hard to say how valuable the tell is going forward. On balance, leaning scum.

Maven - I'm very suspicious of this read of me:
I've played with Laserguy before, it was a few years ago, but from what I remember he was one of the better town players, he did not act like this in the games I played with him.
As far as I can see, I've only played one Town game with Maven and it was several years ago ina non-standard setup, so I'm very skeptical that he would remember anything about my Townplay from that or be able to draw any conclusions from it. In contrast, I have played a few games with him where I was scum and one where I was indy.

Now, actually we have played one recent game, Oasis mafia, a couple months ago, and Maven gave this read of me at the time:
im unhappy with Lasers content, he came in early with a ploy that was valueless then has barely shown up compared to his earlier activity.
Note he doesn't mention how he expects me to play as Town this game, likely because he doesn't remember as he's only seen it once, quite awhile ago. I find it hard to believe that a Town player would seriously make a cold meta read like he did in this game based on such limited information. I feel it's much more likely the case that this is opportunistic scum looking for an excuse to vote me without really thinking about the implications of his read... possibly some meta assistance from a scummate.

In the event of a scum flip here, I would take a close look at Vicarin. Scum.

Vote: Maven
 

Wam

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Wam Wam This is unclear to me:



Can you talk about this?
Sabrar as town tends to be very cagey esp day 1. Therefore if hes putting a detailed case together either he 100% believes this or hes scum pushing a mis lynch.

What are they? This is essential.
Did this get answered? UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin I see it got answered sarcastically.

Thinking it over, it's doubtful that Bessie and Ryker's opening is a coincidence. What if Ryker is like a scum commuter or some self-sacrificing role of some sort whose alignment isn't revealed and he set up multiple mason crumbs with his partners by which one of them could claim if ever in the hotseat.
I'm still highly suspicious of the claim.

You mean like your last scum game?
Side note: it's funny how similar this is. Particularly the "Zen doesn't care about actually reading" part and him thinking I'm 3P. I'm willing to let go of the UP push. That leaves us with LaserGuy, Wam, and Red Ryu. I'd be willing to yeet any of those three in that order of preference (harder to lynch to easier to lynch). Maven I'm undecided on based on that claim.

Vote: LaserGuy
2.5 years isn't long?

Town
fonti
Mala

Ryker
Xivii

Somitomi
Laserguy

I'm getting "could be scum" feels from everyone else, which means I need to get my **** together and sort out some townreads, heh.
This makes me feel better about font. As some else pointed font avoided town read through things.

Eido's body of work as a whole reads like new town, I think. It's fairly relaxed and inquisitive, not self-conscious, and solving oriented. He's especially focused on trying to figure out which player's reads on other players can be trusted, presumably so he can build his own reads from them.
I agree with this.
Based on gut
Town
Malakandra
Eido
FrozenFlame
Somitomi
LaserGuy
Red Ryu
Ryker
Xivii
Fontisian
UtopianPoyzin
Vicarin
Bessie
Maven89
Scum

Bessie is only so low due to meat. Bessie is normally an easy town read and isn't this game. Maven, role is suspicious. And way ut was done struck me as similar to scum claiming miller day 1.

Vote maven
 

Wam

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Oh and for ryker I view the mason claim as nai and am trying to read just based on content. Dont know if it's working though
 

Chaco

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Chaco Chaco is this (2) or (0)?
3. Sorry, phone is going to be the death of me. Fontisian was on Laser as well.

A ALL : Apologies for VC mess ups here and there, I’ve had a lot of stuff going on in my personal life. If you see anything just ping me and I will fix it. I’m gonna try to be more thorough in making sure it’s correct before posting from this point forward.
 
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#HBC | Red Ryu

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My Ryu read was premature. I think he's more likely to be scum. I'm also not certain on Laser, but I am scum leaning. I think bessie is kind of obvious town? I don't get all the shade that's being thrown at her.


I don't believe this at all. Why are you not pushing Maven then? Bessie's actually playing. BTW, Ryu, you should work on addressing players by their names and pronouns rather than by "slot." It's not a big deal imo, but it's good to do.

Masons and IC is bananas to me, but I'm also having a hard time seeing why scum!Ryker would claim this early. If his claim is true, then I agree scum has to have a janitor for this to be balanced. They probably also have a protective, ninja, and doublevoter/x?
At this time Maven has one post which to me was very a typical of him, he usually thinks I am scum sane with ranmaru if memory serves right.

What do you make of his more recent posts?

Someone mentioned that Ryker offered to claim in their very first post, not two hours after game start, suggesting he already had the claim ready. That just clicked my brain into taking the claim at face value, because the gambit option would involve crazy quick planning or a near suicidal level of flying by the seat of your pants. Regarding Sabrar/UP, my initial impression of both was fairly town. However, IC+masons+doublevoter all together seems to be a lot of confirmable/confirmed power on the town side, so pure metagame logic puts the slot into PoE.
Vote: UtopianPoyzin
I think this is relying too much on the set-up while ignoring the play of the player. I personally think Utopian has had far better play than Sabrar which makes me think Sabrar just playes bad to pressure and possibly newer given the questions earlier where not helpful to ask.

what do make of utopian after coming in? Do they improve your opinions of the slot?
 

Wam

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
456
Ryu sabrar is an experienced player who deals fine with pressure.

Ryu why did you pick somis read of UP out of all the content?
 
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