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Fonti's fine, they've done a lot of stuff I've liked such as having an unbelievably townie tone and their reads align with my own. I'm comfortable with how they've been acting and would like to keep them around for now.
Call me the party pooper, but I'm not completely sold on town!Eido. He's been asking a lot of questions, but like I think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he knows that asking loads of questions is townie, especially if his potential scummates told him "make sure to ask a lot of questions.* Actions speak louder than words, and in terms of where his head has been at, I can't help but disagree.
I also don't like how FF has hard townlocked that slot. I get that it's not permanent but there's something that scares me about Eido and I'm not quite sure what. I think it's too early to put him high up in the townleans, even if they've been decent for the most part.
Xivii
and others, for when you're feeling doubts in the mid game.
Look at his process, look at the way he's willing to push against consensus, look at how his perspective comes from genuine feelings he's trying to figure out.
I do not know this site, Chaco's ideas of balance or enough roles to know what could or could not be in this game. So I am not looking at the mason claim itself but rather Ryker's behavior around it to read him.
looks like I'm not the only one getting slammed with work, I was on call over the weekend and had to advise investigators in the middle of the ****ing night both saturday and sunday night so my sleep schedule is shot rn and unfortunately I will continue to be on 24/7 duty until Friday morning
still need to re-read laserguy today, planning to get that done tonight
fonti's large townread list def contrasts with her wolfing from Things I Like, only other angle I can see for scum!fonti is to not ruffle the feathers of other generally town read slots so she gets a cozy early spot in a developing voting block that xivii was hinting at trying to solidify
UP literally feels the way he plays imposter in Among Us which I know is a bizarre meta read but I am very uncomfortable with the slot
Red ruy feels lost and I can't tell if that's just NAI laziness or scum skimming derivative
bessie comes off townier given her reaction to me blowing off her deflective answer to me calling her post the fluffiest in the game. I don't think scum!bessie says "wow look at FF trying to dodge opining on maven" as if I should have known that in her eyes, maven could be attacked on the same grounds. very strange narrowing of the possible rebuttal against my slot if she's scum. She could just have easily said "wow look at FF ignoring me because his attack was bad and he knows it" when instead she jumped to the conclusion that I was trying to avoid addressing maven's slot which feels like town!bessie projecting her own comparison of herself against other slots onto my thought process without realizing it and getting a mistaken but understandable scum ping from it as a result
Xivii
and others, for when you're feeling doubts in the mid game.
Look at his process, look at the way he's willing to push against consensus, look at how his perspective comes from genuine feelings he's trying to figure out.
I don't think scum!UP has any problem pushing against town consensus when his slot is a real play consideration for a few slots. from my limited experience with scum!UP, he doesn't play aggro scum unless thunderdome'd or setting up a thunderdome is a necessary path to endgame. I'd expect to see more subtle FUD tactics coming from scum!UP in earlygame and I think his current play is consistent with that. UP's scum game I think revolves around subtle suggestion, getting people to doubt themselves without realizing its UP's commentary doing it. I think you're underestimating scum!UP having such early confidence that he's expressing genuine feelings here because to me, UP comes off as having an intentionally disarming approach which tracks with scum!UP imo
Xivii
is this town!fonti legitimately being consonant with your coalition or scum!fonti reading the room and giving herself a free place in the delegation?
#HBC | Red Ryu
if you can only choose between laserguy and wam for the yeet today, who do you pick and why?
I really need to ISO vicarin, that's the project to follow the laserguy ISO
UtopianPoyzin
I accept that. I'm aware I've not given up a lot of myself in the thread.
Some players here are talking about others quite strongly, with knowledge or experience. I'm looking to see if I can agree with them, whether I can trust them.
#HBC | FrozeηFlame#HBC | FrozeηFlame
why were you for a mass claim??? This is so off from you, who I consider to be a more traditional player. Additionally, why are you so readily accepting of the Mason claim? How does Masons + Innocent Child make sense?
Thought my issue with Red Ryu was explained decently. Placing a vote on someone for pressure is fine, saying everyone else should as well on the same person or have to explain why they're not is a pretty scummy way of framing the conversation. What if I told you that's common DGames belief and...
I didn't say I was for a mass claim, just that I didn't have a strong objection to it. I'm not sure what you mean by me being "more traditional" and because I don't know what you mean I can't really respond to the assertion that because I'm "more traditional" I should therefore be against masslcaims which seems to be your implication. I play to wincon, and in this game I looked at my role, the available characters in the game, and the expressed methodology that Chaco says he used for alignment assignment, and concluded that a mass claim early in this game had a real probability of having a net pro-town outcome. I don't have a high power role to claim, we already have a cleared townie, ryker was hinting at having another clear or the power to clear more slots, and ultimately my calculus was that in a mass claim scenario town likely has the tempo advantage in this game to take advantage of the info surge before scum can punish it.
I can't explain how IC + masons makes sense because all I have is my own role to go off of to assess power balance and all I know is that my role is relatively low impact. Maven's claim, assuming his town, fits the "negative impact town" role that I would expect to see in a game with so much clear potential but of course thats post hoc analysis given we didn't have maven's claim at the time we were debating the merits of mass claim. I also just think Ryker is right and we're probably up against a high power scum team that has the tools to deal with cleared slots. It's also possible the masons are life-linked which would heavily nerf the power of their ability to clear one another, but all I can really do is speculate here and we could do that endlessly
I do not know this site, Chaco's ideas of balance or enough roles to know what could or could not be in this game. So I am not looking at the mason claim itself but rather Ryker's behavior around it to read him.
this belies your true intentions does it not? isn't saying like this directly contrary to your stated goal if you intend to nurture false hope? or am I just reading into a gag too much?
interesting takes from the XKCD crowd here no vicarin's posturing re: mass claim and how it apparantly differs from the slots normal meta of pushing for claims. LaserGuy@somitomi I'd like you both to address each others takes here. Also @bessie I haven't seen you explicitly react to these responses and you mentioned in one of your posts that you thought is was strange that no one had addressed vic's normal meta re: claims
this felt the fluffiest post in the game so far
nice non answer
self voting D1 during RVS or RVS adjacent discussion is the least risky time in the entire game to self vote. you are literally claiming town cred at a point where the risk you're saying self voting represents as an existential threat to a slot is at it's absolute minimum
it really susses me out that your thought process was to pick four slots and give reads on those slots, but then you decided to include malakandra in the mix. Literally what is the point? you could have picked any other slot and made the characters your typed atleast somewhat useful for consideration
also the take on red ryu isn't wrong per se but your diction here feels grime but I can't put my finger on why
do not let her avoid responding to this
any movement on your sab read? fonti?
Somitomi seems to have more motivation this D1 relative to the last two games I've played with him. Still trying to parse out what that means
Wam also falls into this category, I've seen more effort from Wam in these first 5 pages then I think I saw from wam from D3 to endgame in Things I Like. I generally feel like Wam is actually digging here but the contrast from Things I Like bothers me considering he was town there despite looking hella scummy by play. I'm left wondering if he's overcompensating for a vulnerability he feels as scum!Wam
Ryker v. Sab is giving me flashbacks to me v. Sab in Things I Like and thus feels TvT to me but Sab looks worse between the two imo. Sabs tone in his discussion of meta strategy differences with ryker feels less dismissive though than he was with me which is pinging slightly for me
So why is that scummy? Well, consider how you might be playing the game if you, like Wam, believed scum might use the massclaim stuff to talk about irrelevant things and look towny. Personally, I, before even sharing that thought, would have specific people in mind who might be abusing the massclaim talk, and I'd be looking at other things they were doing. I'd have names ready. Wam did not have those names ready, he made a suggestion ("scum might be doing "x") but had to look back through the thread to remind himself of who was doing "x." The original town thought process was missing.
this belies your true intentions does it not? isn't saying like this directly contrary to your stated goal if you intend to nurture false hope? or am I just reading into a gag too much?
interesting takes from the XKCD crowd here no vicarin's posturing re: mass claim and how it apparantly differs from the slots normal meta of pushing for claims. LaserGuy@somitomi I'd like you both to address each others takes here. Also @bessie I haven't seen you explicitly react to these responses and you mentioned in one of your posts that you thought is was strange that no one had addressed vic's normal meta re: claims
this felt the fluffiest post in the game so far
nice non answer
self voting D1 during RVS or RVS adjacent discussion is the least risky time in the entire game to self vote. you are literally claiming town cred at a point where the risk you're saying self voting represents as an existential threat to a slot is at it's absolute minimum
it really susses me out that your thought process was to pick four slots and give reads on those slots, but then you decided to include malakandra in the mix. Literally what is the point? you could have picked any other slot and made the characters your typed atleast somewhat useful for consideration
also the take on red ryu isn't wrong per se but your diction here feels grime but I can't put my finger on why
do not let her avoid responding to this
any movement on your sab read? fonti?
Somitomi seems to have more motivation this D1 relative to the last two games I've played with him. Still trying to parse out what that means
Wam also falls into this category, I've seen more effort from Wam in these first 5 pages then I think I saw from wam from D3 to endgame in Things I Like. I generally feel like Wam is actually digging here but the contrast from Things I Like bothers me considering he was town there despite looking hella scummy by play. I'm left wondering if he's overcompensating for a vulnerability he feels as scum!Wam
Ryker v. Sab is giving me flashbacks to me v. Sab in Things I Like and thus feels TvT to me but Sab looks worse between the two imo. Sabs tone in his discussion of meta strategy differences with ryker feels less dismissive though than he was with me which is pinging slightly for me
bro you look very bad/negligent for this and I'm refraining from saying why because I quickly realize maven saying that could just have easily been a bait as it could be an RVS style joke
no, it was just I bit spooky that you hadn't responded to xivii on that issue until literal minutes after I posted a reminder to xivii to follow up on it
also "is that a problem" again presents as defensive
Sorry guys fell a bit behind here have had a busy weekend, wont really be able to sit down and do a full reread till late tonight, just catching up on mobile atm
From pages like 13-15 I need to review laser for sure because he most recent posts seem a bit off, wams absence is HIGHLY conspicuous, UP does not at all feel like the town UP I played against in completely vanilla, fontis tone is on a completely different plane from Things I Link which I think should be comforting but has not overcome my trust issues with the slot, xiviis coalition building efforts ping town, vicarin feels coasty and interested in self preservation, need to hear more from red ruy with real takes on any slot that isnt vicarin
The names came after he was asked, that's my point. He didn't have them on hand as something he was already thinking about, he had to go back and look for them.
Lol. Because inno children and masons aren't as scary as a strong player. I'm not saying I'll die tonight, but I expect it'll be sooner than later.
Frozen, I hear you about UP. I don't think he is trying to make people doubt themselves here? I think /he/ is experiencing doubts, but isn't trying to push them on others. I'm up for discussing this with you.
The names came after he was asked, that's my point. He didn't have them on hand as something he was already thinking about, he had to go back and look for them.
Or that's the way I play. I really dont see how thinking that without specific names linked to.it is scummy. I play off the cuff and reacting to things as either alignment. But were never going to agree.
bessie - I tried to do this review mostly without consideration of the colour discussion and just focus on her other content.
Specifically, I spent a good deal of time rereading SS mafia (bessie was scum) and a few older Town games trying to figure out the specific thing in that game that pinged me strongly that bessie was mafia in that game. I'm pretty sure that I've narrowed it down to a high ratio of information to analysis in her posting. In SS, she really didn't dig into the 'why' of things very much, just provided surface level commentary that didn't really advance the discussion or lead to any real conclusions. I see some of that in this game, e.g. something like this which is a big info dump without really providing any commentary on what those players might think:
I do think it’s interesting, because Vicarin and I have had heated discussions re claiming in the past. I was poking the xkcd people to see if any of them wanted to comment on this, and interestingly no one has. I’m trying to give a little bit of space on this though because I don’t expect everyone to remember the same things I remember from old games, or even anything at all, and I don’t have the specific games I’m thinking of to link to. But as I pointed out earlier, Vicarin and I had a lot of conflict over sash claiming in B99, and I know that some people playing this game have read B99 recently (somitomi has asked for that game, and LaserGuy thanked me for posting it and said he would be reading it). One of the games though where Vicarin and I really got in to it was Stellaris Mafia, which is not yet in the xkcd game archive. But Wam, somitomi, Laserguy, Xivii, and and Sabrar played that game, and Xivii has read it recently.
but I do think that her content this game is somewhat better than what I see in SS, especially with #436 which provided a lot of the context to her push on Ryker that I did not follow earlier. Her frustration with me in #606 also feels genuine to me, though she should know that this type of push is NAI at worst for me.
Mmm... I've kind of talked myself out of having a really strong scumread of her. Without consideration of the colour argument, I'm going to sheepishly put her at nullscum and pretend nobody notices.
Vicarin - Comes across as very active lurky. Spends a lot of time arguing about claim strategies or other mechanics and commits to few reads or opinions unless pushed. I feel like I've mostly played with Vic where he was scum and don't have a great feel for his Town meta, but I did track down an older read I had made of him early in D1 where he was Town (spoiler below) so I guess this is within his Town range. I think I'd prefer not to yeet him today to see how his content develops. Nullscum.
Vicarin - active lurking. Hasn't really posted anything of significance or really tried to generate any useful discussion. Content is notably weaker and less interesting than previous games. Hasn't attempted to follow up at all on his "number" questions.
Xivii - I'm actually really surprised so many people are townreading Xivii this game given how dubious his content has been thus far. Pretty much everything I have seen from Xivii this game I would either classify as, at best, weird, and at worst, bad. I originally had planned on having this set up as a good/bad/ugly dichotomy but I gave up as I couldn't find anything to put into the "good" category.
The bad
I don't care for a lot of Xivii's reads this game:
Xivii's early early Townread on bessie. The reasoning here is kind of absurd. Xivii and bessie actually have an almost identical interaction in SS mafia: bessie posts early; Xivii townreads her immediately. Both players were scum. So Xivii should absolutely know that bessie would post early in the game if the timing lined up for her to do so.
Asking bessie about why she wasn't voting. I feel like Xivii should have enough meta knowledge to answer this. Dropping bessie down into the scumlean category based in part on this doesn't seem right to me either. bessie is later obvious Town without further explanation.
Ryker read seems kind of a nothing read, everything just weird/strange without any explanation.
Case on Sabrar in the same post doesn't scan particularly well. Tonally I don't really feel Sabrar was that much different in this game compared to TIL. Sabrar also does not typically vote like an #HBC player so pushing him on this point seems very strange to me. I feel like Xivii is taking a lot of points that are kind of NAI and throwing them together to make it look scummier than it is.
His case on me is similarly... non-existent. I am producing content, which makes it easier for people to sort me and to sort others. This is a good thing. I am also sorting people. Here's some examples of that in thread, and, as I've alluded to, I've kept much of my analysis offline because I didn't want to get caught in a bad tunnel again:
#93 - Ryker is Town because scum typically hate giving Town any sort of strategic advice or are worried that it may come across as alignment informed. In my experience D1 mass claims suggestions specifically are basically always from Town and usually aren't serious but are an attempt to generate conversation.
#121 - Xivii's comments on flavor did not make sense to me so I was trying to establish why he was so interested in this. His non-answer does not impress me and he gets a scum lean.
#143 - bessie did not seem to get the significance of Malakandra's IC flip being blue, which felt like it may have been a scumslip, so I wanted to pursue this and see whether my hunch was correct.
#161 - Trying to pull some content out of Vicarin to better establish my read on him. His comments in response are meh, nullscum.
#323 - Still trying to understand Xivii's obsession with flavor. Investigating Eido's naked vote which seems very uncharacteristic for a new player. Sketch out a few of my reads. Take a look at Xivii's reads to see how they align with mine and try to solidfy my read on him. RR has little content and does not deserve a townread; Xivii's reasons for scumreading bessie do not make sense to me and he was townreading her earlier so I wanted to investigate the difference for the change in read; wam read matched a lot of my thoughts so I decide to move there. Xivii's position improves slightly.
#328 - Still trying to tease information out of bessie. Keeping a close eye on fonti's reads as I feel consistency is probably the strongest towntell I can muster for her so I follow up on her change in Frozen read. Cross-reference Xivii's RR read with Ryker to help sort both slots.
#547 - Press Xivii on Sabrar's case against him. Follow up with bessie.
Xivii never provides any specifics of what he finds problematic in my content (or anyone else's, really); rather he simply makes a general comment about what he sees and lets people fill in whatever details that they want.
Noting also that Sabrar's case in #345 is very solid and Xivii has made no attempt to address those points against him either.
The weird
Xivii spends a lot of time thinking about flavor claims and how they relate to alignments... e.g here, here, here, here, here. He kind of admits that he doesn't really have a good reason for it when I question him about this here, his reply here, and also after several people point out that roles/alignments are not correlated. And Xivii is an experienced enough mod not to believe that any particular role or character should be self-clearing except for stuff like IC. I don't know what to make of this entire line of speculation especially when there's so MUCH of it. Even much, much later, he's still trying to do the samething.
Or that's the way I play. I really dont see how thinking that without specific names linked to.it is scummy. I play off the cuff and reacting to things as either alignment. But were never going to agree.
Sorry guys fell a bit behind here have had a busy weekend, wont really be able to sit down and do a full reread till late tonight, just catching up on mobile atm From pages like 13-15 I need to review laser for sure because he most recent posts seem a bit off, wams absence is HIGHLY...
smashboards.com
Utopia is 4th from the bottom on your list right now.
I’ve looked back and you noticed Sabrar early on (once at the beginning, and there's a dialogue between you and Frozenflame where you reinforce it).
Sabrar then was in a group of players you said you didn't like for talking about the mass claims.
Did anything happen around then that changed your mind on him? You jumped on Sabrar's case on Xivii easily. Wasn't Sabrar a suspect of yours?
Sabrar as town tends to be very cagey esp day 1. Therefore if hes putting a detailed case together either he 100% believes this or hes scum pushing a mis lynch.
This looks like a strong swing one way. But Utopia as 4th place doesn't fill me with confidence you're giving this much thought. Have you made any progress on this? You've voted Maven and, of all the reads on your list, you talked about Bessie. Why?
I expect to read your posts and find points that challenge my view of the gamestate. Things against my views that are nonetheless convincing. Nothing you have said today has been convincing.
I told my partner to raise that issue as a possibility after claiming if I'm dead so it could come out at a time I'd be more interested in seeing it pursued.
Sorry guys fell a bit behind here have had a busy weekend, wont really be able to sit down and do a full reread till late tonight, just catching up on mobile atm From pages like 13-15 I need to review laser for sure because he most recent posts seem a bit off, wams absence is HIGHLY...
smashboards.com
Utopia is 4th from the bottom on your list right now.
I’ve looked back and you noticed Sabrar early on (once at the beginning, and there's a dialogue between you and Frozenflame where you reinforce it).
Sabrar then was in a group of players you said you didn't like for talking about the mass claims.
Did anything happen around then that changed your mind on him? You jumped on Sabrar's case on Xivii easily. Wasn't Sabrar a suspect of yours?
This looks like a strong swing one way. But Utopia as 4th place doesn't fill me with confidence you're giving this much thought. Have you made any progress on this? You've voted Maven and, of all the reads on your list, you talked about Bessie. Why?
I still read the slot as scummy. Its day 1 the gap between bottom and 4th from bottom isn't massive. Bessie I talked about as that's the change in my mindset that stood out in the recent read lists.
I'm hoping if I get lynched they will have condemned themselves enough that it helps. Maybe I'm to laissez-faire about it but no matter how good you are at some point you will be mislynched day 1. And tbh there will be a lot of movement between now and deadline
Especially on this site it seems to swing dramatically at the end, based on my last game on here.