Apex Legends Mafia: Boosted GAME OVER Who won?

Wam

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I was going for a different definition

unwillingness to get involved in or influence other people's activities:


Never heard the economic one!
 

Eido

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Ah I was just about to quote this! I'm interested to hear about that ^
 

fontisian

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My problem right now with Wam is that his posts aren't pretty, they're a bit clumsy, a few players have attacked his character.

If my character was attacked, I would shape up. I imagine the Mafia would tell him to shape up if he was coordinating in a team.

But he has been consistently difficult to follow.

If he's Mafia, does he care he's Mafia?

fontisian fontisian Wam Wam

^ Would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this actually.
He has shaped up, to an extent. He is easier to follow here than he was in Things. However, I think he is also more manipulative here than in Things, and that's not something a scumplayer can just fix.
 

somitomi

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I think this is relying too much on the set-up while ignoring the play of the player. I personally think Utopian has had far better play than Sabrar which makes me think Sabrar just playes bad to pressure and possibly newer given the questions earlier where not helpful to ask.

what do make of utopian after coming in? Do they improve your opinions of the slot?
Yeah, that's fairly accurate. I'm putting way too much stock into my setup speculation because it felt more logical and reliable than my reads ever do. It's not the best approach, but this time around I'm trying to post more impulsively, otherwise every post takes way too much time. When it comes to content, I'd give both Sabrar and UP a decently townie rating so far (in my experience Sabrar can handle pressure fairly well for what it's worth).
Unvote
Yes if you believe the masons claim.
I really don't like the tone of this. Why do you think the mason claim is definitely not true?
Sorry if I'm unclear, I’m thinking of all the events that have happened and how I feel Mafia will want to play around them. My question rewritten is basically: Have the Mafia been responsible for the main talking points today? Have they set the stage?
Didn't you kind of implicitly answer that question by adding "mafia could fake it here" to two of the groups? Or am I misinterpreting something?
I expect to read your posts and find points that challenge my view of the gamestate. Things against my views that are nonetheless convincing. Nothing you have said today has been convincing.
Could you talk a bit more about what makes Laser's case on Xivii so unconvincing?
 

Vicarin

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Bessie -

Starts off with a bit of fluff towards me. Spends #140 mostly responding to questions, only asking a few herself. #262 is mostly concerned with starting arguing with LaserGuy over the role colouring stuff, and also having comments about my reaction to the mass claim idea. #436 is tied up responding to a bunch of questions from Xivii and also asking some of Ryker. #451 is responding to questions and saying that she isn't getting enough responses to her questions in return. #606 is mostly talking about the role pm discussion with LaserGuy and how it's monopolizing her time. #620 is interacting mostly with Red Ryu, but also asking a decent question of UtopianPoyzin.

Seems overall decently like her town game so far. I think it's pretty fair that a lot of her time has been taken up responding to LaserGuy repeatedly asking about role PM stuff, and I don't think it's a particularly productive route of inquiry, so that makes LaserGuy mostly look worse in that exchange. Other than that, she has been asking a lot of questions, quite a few of which have not really been answered, so what she can follow up on has been limited as well.

I'm inclined to believe town atm, would very much like to see her current reads list seeing as Maven has coughed up one by now.
 

Xivii

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Bessie and Vic would you mind linking the post numbers when you use them?
 

Vicarin

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Uh, sure. Just didn't want the post to get incredibly chunky, but I'll do that for the other reads I'm doing.
 

Xivii

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You can link using the link button. And will link the text without adding anything more to the post. Example.
 

Chaco

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“I need a MEDIC”


Vote Count 1.5:
Wam(3): Ryker, UtopianPoyzin, FrozenFlame
Xivii(2): LaserGuy
Bessie(1): RedRyu
LaserGuy(3): Xivii, Bessie, Fontisian
Fontisian(1): Wam

Not Voting(5):
Vicarin, Malakandra, Eido, Somitomi, Maven89

Checking for Prods.
 

Maven89

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LaserGuy LaserGuy i got off your wagon due to you posting content, I really hope you’re not just going to sit on that reads list and will actually come in here and get in the mud with us
 

Vicarin

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FrozenFlame -

Starts the game with a pretty fluffy post and a random vote, doesn't really commit to either side the mass claim argument. Second is considerably better, initially reads scum!wam and Ryker vs Sabrar as TvsT. Next few: thinks Fontisian is defensive, thinks wam is pushing rather hard on people compared to normal. Next chunky post: thinks Sabrar is acting out of character compared to his normal town, thinks wam is considerably more aggressive here than his last town game, thinks Ryker's claim matches up with behaviour, reads a bunch into Sabrar replacing (can say here that Sabrar wouldn't replace out due to pressure, ever), and provides an ordered list. Does a few jokey posts, provides some short reads which seem reasonable. Does another chunky reads post which mostly makes sense (Font, bessie, later UP read, Red Ryu all sensible from my perspective, but the comment on UP in Among Us is a bit weird). Final bigger post is explanation of their viewpoint on the mass claim and game balance.

I didn't like his OP, but his content's been quite decent from then on. I understand where his reads are coming from and think they're reasonable, even if I don't necessarily agree with them all (in particular I think Sabrar's behaviour isn't completely out of character for his normal town). Haven't seen much of his previous play (it's quite a while since I read Crossover), but he seems to be doing perfectly fine town play to me. So long as he keeps doing reads and pushing people for answers, he seems fine to keep around.
 

Vicarin

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Wam -

Oh boy.

Immediate vote on Sabrar. Comments on me getting stuck in mass claim arguments. Says D1 town claims are scummy. Thinks Sabrar ignoring the vote is scummy. Asks Red Ryu why he voted for me. Starts thinking claim discussion is a way to look busy. Thinks Ryker, Sabrar, Xivii look bad from the claims discussion. Switches to Fontisian for lack of content. Accuses Fontisian of active lurking. Starts arguing with Fontisian, over some details that they say are pedantic. Thinks Fontisian is defensive as well. Keeps asking Maven if his jailor claim was serious or not (why?). Tries to get votes on Fontisian based off a pretty minor inconsistency, but was mostly making fun of the Lynch all Liars discussion earlier. Not immediately trusting of Mason claim by Ryker. Really likes Sabrar's case on Xivii, switches vote to Xivii (bit weird as wasn't seeing the case just beforehand). Starts meta-reading Sabrar as town as doesn't think town would be stacked enough to deal with a scum double voter. Thinks Ryker wound Sabrar up pointlessly. Thinks Ryker could be gambiting as scum with Mason claim. Does a rather weird reads list, based off gut, that goes decently against their earlier reads without much reasoning for how they got there. Bunch of smaller posts, then wonders why they're being scumread for talking to Maven, their vote target (reasonable question). Thinks Fontisian is rolefishing. Starts tunneling on Fontisian quite hard. Does a fairly barebones FrozenFlame read. Rest of posts have mostly been defending their playstyle.

Has mostly been careening around trying to find people to push apparently. First, Fontisian, until it was apparent that they were being town read by most players, before switching to Xivii after Sabrar's case. Puts out his reads list after, with Maven Bessie and me at the bottom, while still voting for Xivii, who is 6th scummiest by his reckoning, and Fontisian at 5th. After Fontisian starts pushing on him, switches his vote back to Fontisian where it is currently. All in all, his voting patterns seem completely detached from how he claims to be reading people. This strongly suggests that he's much more focused on someone to push instead of himself that might be able to draw other people's votes rather than actually scum hunting and driving against people he views as scummy. Pretty damn scummy.
 

bessie

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Interesting developments. I'm a little suspicious how many votes appeared so quickly off of Xivii's paper-thin case on me.
My vote had nothing to do with Xivii’s case on you. Did you even read #606?

Vic’s is a lot more similar than you’re letting on; the general layout is kinda the same, but like at the same time I haven’t been able to completely instill trust in them yet. RR’s is similar, FF’s is similar, Fonti’s is similar, actually most of the reads lists at the end are pretty similar. Sure Vic’s is a bit different in the sense that they scum read different people, but like for the most part I thought it was the same.
I went back one page to see where you were getting the idea that everyone agreed with you, and easily found an example that didn’t. I think your posts #549 and #552 were more about trying to reinforce the idea in everyone’s mind that your views are the town consensus ( implying you are town and those that don’t agree aren’t town) and also about buddying fonti.

More in a bit, busy day at work and I only had time to skim the thread so I'm still analyzing and this is a prod dodge.
 

LaserGuy

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LaserGuy LaserGuy i got off your wagon due to you posting content, I really hope you’re not just going to sit on that reads list and will actually come in here and get in the mud with us
I think I am just going to play the way I want, thanks.

My vote had nothing to do with Xivii’s case on you. Did you even read #606?
I did read it. I reference this in my read of you in #704.
 

Xivii

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There's a chance the post was simply written out of order though.
This is true. That point is void. I had forgotten it was in the same post. Even if it was written in order, in his mind it probably was more of an at-the-same-time thing.


UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin Sorry if I'm unclear, I’m thinking of all the events that have happened and how I feel Mafia will want to play around them. My question rewritten is basically: Have the Mafia been responsible for the main talking points today? Have they set the stage?

Or are they in a group of reactionary players that we can identify and narrow down the search? I've put my take on some bits below:

Ryker / Fontisian / Xivii / Sabrar

^ They have set the stage. In Sabrar's case, I've been voting him, but he did put forward a discussion on Xivii that others have used as a talking point.

Red Ryu / Wam / Bessie

^ Feels in their own lane. Their points don't feel part of the wider group chat to me. I think Mafia could fake it here.

Frozenflame / Somitomi / Vicarin / LaserGuy / Maven

^ These are players who haven't advanced the group chat with anything new, or they come across as reacting more to the events around them / catching up. I think Mafia could fake it here.

This isn't ordered, and it's not a list of reads.

Unvote
I really like this, not as in an alignment indicative way, but I like your thinking process as a person. I would say that this is an accurate representation of how each of these players play in general. The only exception being Laser who is generally within the first two categories. Where would you place yourself, out of curiosity?


Yo I hate these paragraphs. Like, a lot. His Ryker stance is pure padding and his reasons for voting Vic when a wagon had already formed are weak af (I already mentioned this earlier). HIs defense of Laserguy is also weak. I see Red Ryu as a likely partner with scum laser.
This is my thinking as well.


As far as I can see, I've only played one Town game with Maven and it was several years ago ina non-standard setup, so I'm very skeptical that he would remember anything about my Townplay from that or be able to draw any conclusions from it. In contrast, I have played a few games with him where I was scum and one where I was indy.
This isn't an honest representation though. In the indy game you were an anti-jester whose goal it was to be night killed by mafia and were successful. Maven was a part of the mafia, so from his perspective, he was playing against a town player that stood out in strength enough to night kill.


2.5 years isn't long?
That's a dishonest way of framing it. By saying you haven't seen Sabrar make a case like that, you're saying you haven't seen him do so in many games. That was a recent game in terms of order.

Flavorless II, that game I linked earlier, was the last game I played with Ryker and it was four years ago. But it would by silly for me to say MAN I HAVEN'T SEEN RYKER CLAIM MASON IN A LONG TIME. He literally did it in the last game I played with him.


Based on gut
Town
Malakandra
Eido
FrozenFlame
Somitomi
LaserGuy
Red Ryu
Ryker
Xivii
Fontisian
UtopianPoyzin
Vicarin
Bessie
Maven89
Scum
What happened to your read on me? You were willing to lynch me after Sabrar's claim but now I'm higher than him. Not to mention higher than 4 other people.


What do you make of his more recent posts?
I like everything he's posted since his catchup post. Likely town (with caution cause that **** could be anything with Xivii).


UP literally feels the way he plays imposter in Among Us which I know is a bizarre meta read but I am very uncomfortable with the slot
Others have asked, but I'm interested as well. Could you flesh this out some more?


Xivii Xivii Xivii Xivii is this town!fonti legitimately being consonant with your coalition or scum!fonti reading the room and giving herself a free place in the delegation?
I told my partner to raise that issue as a possibility after claiming if I'm dead so it could come out at a time I'd be more interested in seeing it pursued.


I didn't say I was for a mass claim, just that I didn't have a strong objection to it. I'm not sure what you mean by me being "more traditional" and because I don't know what you mean I can't really respond to the assertion that because I'm "more traditional" I should therefore be against masslcaims which seems to be your implication. I play to wincon, and in this game I looked at my role, the available characters in the game, and the expressed methodology that Chaco says he used for alignment assignment, and concluded that a mass claim early in this game had a real probability of having a net pro-town outcome. I don't have a high power role to claim, we already have a cleared townie, ryker was hinting at having another clear or the power to clear more slots, and ultimately my calculus was that in a mass claim scenario town likely has the tempo advantage in this game to take advantage of the info surge before scum can punish it.
By traditional I mean not mass claiming Day 1. It's mafia 101. The only time I've ever seen you agree to a Day 1 mass claim was when you were scum.

What would you do to balance an IC and Masons?


That's not how you played in Things. There you came up with reads and then talked about your reasoning afterwards.
nodinagreement.gif


My problem right now with Wam is that his posts aren't pretty, they're a bit clumsy, a few players have attacked his character.

If my character was attacked, I would shape up. I imagine the Mafia would tell him to shape up if he was coordinating in a team.

But he has been consistently difficult to follow.

If he's Mafia, does he care he's Mafia?

fontisian fontisian Wam Wam

^ Would appreciate anyone's thoughts on this actually.
His posts are consciously clumsy as a general playstyle. It's how he plays as both alignments. But as he said, it's a bit less so as mafia.


Laser's Xivii Case
Xivii's early early Townread on bessie. The reasoning here is kind of absurd. Xivii and bessie actually have an almost identical interaction in SS mafia: bessie posts early; Xivii townreads her immediately. Both players were scum. So Xivii should absolutely know that bessie would post early in the game if the timing lined up for her to do so.
I think it's silly that you'd think I'd do the same thing. I was mimicking my town play in Sumting not the reverse. Mala made this mistake in TIL when I behaved the same way at the end of day 1 with regard to asking Boom to switch wagons. Additionally, you know I'm very much well known for this. And you stated last game that you do the same thing.

Anyway to clear things up, my early read here is more about the timing of her entering the thread relative to becoming aware that the thread was up than it is about what page she posted on.


Asking bessie about why she wasn't voting. I feel like Xivii should have enough meta knowledge to answer this. Dropping bessie down into the scumlean category based in part on this doesn't seem right to me either. bessie is later obvious Town without further explanation.
I explained this already.


Why Laser is Scum
Would you mind linking me that post? ^

Why would he act wishy washy on Sabrar as Mafia?

(Wishy washy meaning back and forth, right? Like he's not being clear on Sabrar?)
This is the post I was referring to. While apparently trying to catch up, Laser spent half his post on my read list. Most of his posts are about making sure he's commenting on things. It's focused on looking like he's doing busy work rather than actually trying to solve. Compare your posts, for example. You're asking questions that actually lead to further clarification and follow-up. They are narrow and specific in a way that reveals a thought process (for example, when you pursued Sabrar's vote on me). Laser is just taking a shotgun and commenting on anything he can find to comment on.

As for why he would be wishy-washy, Sabrar is one of the strongest players. If Sabrar is town, it wouldn't be in Laser's interest to step on his toes because once on Sabrar's scumdar, he's very unlikely to let it go. Additionally, Sabar is not an easy person to lynch, so getting on his scumdar does not have a good cost/benefit. If Sabar is scum, then he'd be wishy-washy because he wouldn't want to lynch a strong scummate. I don't think this is the case, however, because if they were buddies, Laser would have just hopped on the wagon until Sabrar claimed his doublevote ability to explain his behavior, at which point Laser could easily hop off. (Similar to what I'm asserting about the way Laser is treating Ryu below).

As I said at the end of TIL (directed at Chaco in my final thoughts), my intention was to take a less confrontational approach this game as I came out too strong last game and it hurt my reads.
This doesn't explain the above. I have nothing against you not being aggressive with your stances. The issue is that you're in survival mode rather than hunter mode. You're probably spending most of your time in the scum chat trying to plot out a lynch path and figure out why I'm so interested in the flavor (hint: it has nothing to do with the game).

UP's content so far looks fine and I think him coming out with a strong statement about townreading me when I'm being pushed is probably not what scum wants to be doing here.
This read is the fakest by far. You literally just saw scum do this exact thing last game.

and pretend nobody notices.
This did not warrant this self-conscious reflection. Why would anyone care about you changing your mind on bessie considering you backed it up with specific points (unlike below).

I didn't quote it, but Laser's switch on Ryu was way grimy. It's a classic soft scum read your partner from nothing and then reverse when they make a big post. Ryu's post was not good. And Laser isn't even explaining why it's good. He's just referencing it like it's enough to justify the read.
 

Xivii

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Yo Xivii Xivii can you explain your read progression on Red Ryu already?
I didn't like his #442. The main thing that stood out to me was the random Laser read. It was an unnecessary line, one likely put there specifically just to have his buddy within the post. Why mention Laser of all people?

I also think his Ryker read is informed. There was no suspicion of Ryker's motives at all. And his scum read on bessie seemed to me like he picked someone out of a hat to push. And also he was hedging on Sabrar.

btw
And I have played with Xivii before a while ago, he seemed to be decently glad that I was signing up for a game. So I have some idea of his shenanigans, but completely changing reads with no justification is a new one for me.
We've been in 4 games together I believe. It seems like more to me though. I might be missing one.

Stellaris
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Were you in Darkest Dungeon?
 

Vicarin

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Yes, I was in Darkest Dungeon, as part of the Mason pair. That was a VERY weird game though (hilarious that you and somitomi both sent relatively useless first messages and we just scum read both of you for it).
 

Malakandra

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Just hopping in to say good work all! I'm proud of your progress so far. Expect more taxes from me though, thing have been hard since my governor left, I've had to like manage things.
 

Maven89

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unvote

I'm going to jump back on Laserguy soon because he's not trying to generate any discussion.

I'm fine with a Wam lynch, but I can easily see that more as off play than pure scumminess. Laserguy is obstinate in his refusal to scum hunt
 

bessie

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is Sabrar very experienced? Ohh that changes how I view earlier content then.....how much experience do they have?
Sabrar’s been playing for about four or five years. Including with you. Crossover Mafia on xkcd the game I already linked for you in my Fluffy Post .
It’s the same game in which Sabrar was your was your scum partner, as he pointed out in this post .


I'm not. I will clarify 100% that my claim will not change and if it does, I should be lynched on the spot.
This is a safe comment to make because if you’re in the situation where you need to change your claim it’s probably because you were already caught lying.


Fonti's fine, they've done a lot of stuff I've liked such as having an unbelievably townie tone and their reads align with my own. I'm comfortable with how they've been acting and would like to keep them around for now.
Or your reads align with fonti’s, not fonti's align with yours.


I am really, really certain UP is town.

Xivii Xivii and others, for when you're feeling doubts in the mid game.

Look at his process, look at the way he's willing to push against consensus, look at how his perspective comes from genuine feelings he's trying to figure out.
Like really? He’s not pushing very hard, he’s pushing very carefully. But perhaps he will push harder now, now that he sees it meets with your approval.


Page 18
Sorry I got a call and had to look at something for work
 

LaserGuy

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This isn't an honest representation though. In the indy game you were an anti-jester whose goal it was to be night killed by mafia and were successful. Maven was a part of the mafia, so from his perspective, he was playing against a town player that stood out in strength enough to night kill.
Even counting that game as Town (dubious), Maven has still not seen me play Town in years, has seen my play as scum more frequently and more recently and I honestly doubt my townplay in either of the games I played with him would have made a particularly strong impression. Curious that you feel the need to defend Maven here, when Maven himself didn't dispute the point that he didn't really have the meta.

Laser's Xivii Case
I think it's silly that you'd think I'd do the same thing. I was mimicking my town play in Sumting not the reverse. Mala made this mistake in TIL when I behaved the same way at the end of day 1 with regard to asking Boom to switch wagons. Additionally, you know I'm very much well known for this. And you stated last game that you do the same thing.
My problem isn't that you Townread people based on little information. The problem is that the specific information you chose to make this read on is based on a premise that is patently false, and that you ought to know is false because you were her partner in that game and interacted with her in a very similar manner to this one.

SS mafia, game start is 4:54. bessie's first post is 7:38 the same day. bessie is mafia.
This game, game start is 7:01. bessie's first post is 8:30 the same day. Xivii claims this means bessie is Town.
Please explain why you believe the extra hour difference in her relative start times means one is Town given that the other is scum.

Yes, I do make townreads on people for reasons that are admittedly often pretty dubious. But I don't make townreads on people for things that I know for a fact are wrong.

I explained this already.
bessie never votes in RVS. Her voting meta is very consistent and you have played enough games with her that you ought to know it. bessie frequently goes through the better part of D1 without ever placing a vote.

This is the post I was referring to. While apparently trying to catch up, Laser spent half his post on my read list.
Why do you find it surprising that I would want to discuss your reads? Why do you find it surprising that I would try to sort you?

Most of his posts are about making sure he's commenting on things. It's focused on looking like he's doing busy work rather than actually trying to solve. Compare your posts, for example. You're asking questions that actually lead to further clarification and follow-up. They are narrow and specific in a way that reveals a thought process (for example, when you pursued Sabrar's vote on me). Laser is just taking a shotgun and commenting on anything he can find to comment on.
I'm discussing things that I find interesting, replying to people who ping me, following up on questions that I've asked previously. Such scummy things I do. Yes, I'm keeping my process more closed than I have in previous games here, but you've seen me do this before as well (in NNY, for example).

As for why he would be wishy-washy, Sabrar is one of the strongest players. If Sabrar is town, it wouldn't be in Laser's interest to step on his toes because once on Sabrar's scumdar, he's very unlikely to let it go. Additionally, Sabar is not an easy person to lynch, so getting on his scumdar does not have a good cost/benefit. If Sabar is scum, then he'd be wishy-washy because he wouldn't want to lynch a strong scummate. I don't think this is the case, however, because if they were buddies, Laser would have just hopped on the wagon until Sabrar claimed his doublevote ability to explain his behavior, at which point Laser could easily hop off. (Similar to what I'm asserting about the way Laser is treating Ryu below).
No, your case on Sabrar was just bad. You took some fairly normal Sabrar behaviours and spun a story for how they're scummy. Same as you did with bessie. Same as you're doing with me. You aren't trying to analyze people's motivations, you're imposing motivations on them to fit your narratives.

This doesn't explain the above. I have nothing against you not being aggressive with your stances. The issue is that you're in survival mode rather than hunter mode.
This isn't entirely false. I am not intentionally trying to draw an early night kill this game.

This read is the fakest by far. You literally just saw scum do this exact thing last game.
I'm not sure what specific situation from the previous game you're referring to here.

This did not warrant this self-conscious reflection. Why would anyone care about you changing your mind on bessie considering you backed it up with specific points (unlike below).
I felt it appropriate considering I had indicated in #574 that I felt this was probably bessie's scum meta and would give some specifics on it. Also because I've been bothering her all Day and felt bad about it.

I didn't quote it, but Laser's switch on Ryu was way grimy. It's a classic soft scum read your partner from nothing and then reverse when they make a big post. Ryu's post was not good. And Laser isn't even explaining why it's good. He's just referencing it like it's enough to justify the read.
I don't really feel the need to give detailed justification to move someone from nullscum to nullTown. But if you were curious about my reasoning, you always could have asked and I would have provided it. But you aren't interested in my reasoning, just in fleshing out your story.
 

Xivii

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SS mafia, game start is 4:54. bessie's first post is 7:38 the same day. bessie is mafia.
This game, game start is 7:01. bessie's first post is 8:30 the same day. Xivii claims this means bessie is Town.
Please explain why you believe the extra hour difference in her relative start times means one is Town given that the other is scum.
Again it's about the time she became aware that the thread was open, not when the thread opened. It's out of game related.

bessie never votes in RVS. Her voting meta is very consistent and you have played enough games with her that you ought to know it. bessie frequently goes through the better part of D1 without ever placing a vote.
I explained this already. She was ready to vote Kary from the first page in our last game. And there was no RVS here.


I'm not sure what specific situation from the previous game you're referring to here.
Fonti coming in town reading Frozen.


I don't really feel the need to give detailed justification to move someone from nullscum to nullTown. But if you were curious about my reasoning, you always could have asked and I would have provided it. But you aren't interested in my reasoning, just in fleshing out your story.
I'm listening.
 

Xivii

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bessie bessie would you say you are playing differently here than Flavoreless III? And if so, in what way?
 

Xivii

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And I used the same defense in Secret Santa as Town. You can ask bessie, wam or LaserGuy. It's NAI.
Which Secret Santa are you referring to?
The one that you modded with PW and I spent the entire D1 memeing.
Okay... I can't say I remember you saying that specific comment in that game, but it's plausible from what I remember of your play. You were playing a very different style that game from anything I've seen from you before though.

Would knowing that it was a different Secret Santa have changed your answer?? You wouldn't have remembered that line regardless, so there was no need to ask this.
 

Wam

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Yeah, that's fairly accurate. I'm putting way too much stock into my setup speculation because it felt more logical and reliable than my reads ever do. It's not the best approach, but this time around I'm trying to post more impulsively, otherwise every post takes way too much time. When it comes to content, I'd give both Sabrar and UP a decently townie rating so far (in my experience Sabrar can handle pressure fairly well for what it's worth).
Unvote

I really don't like the tone of this. Why do you think the mason claim is definitely not true?

Didn't you kind of implicitly answer that question by adding "mafia could fake it here" to two of the groups? Or am I misinterpreting something?

Could you talk a bit more about what makes Laser's case on Xivii so unconvincing?
Game balance. To clarify ryker might have chat with somebody. I'm highly suspicious both are mod confirmed town.
 

LaserGuy

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Bessie is only so low due to meat. Bessie is normally an easy town read and isn't this game. Maven, role is suspicious. And way ut was done struck me as similar to scum claiming miller day 1.
How do you feel this is similar to a scum miller claim?

LaserGuy LaserGuy , I actually had no recollection of playing with you since we played on your home site. The last few years of mafia for me have been me joining, falling behind, failing to catch up, and then either being replaced, mod killed, or lynched for inactivity. After a few months I figure I have time to actually play and wind up repeating the process. They all blend together at a certain point.
So which games in particular were you thinking of when you said you thought that my play here did not look like my previous games?

My problem right now with Wam is that his posts aren't pretty, they're a bit clumsy, a few players have attacked his character.

If my character was attacked, I would shape up. I imagine the Mafia would tell him to shape up if he was coordinating in a team.

But he has been consistently difficult to follow.

If he's Mafia, does he care he's Mafia?
Maybe you missed it, but I asked you in #635 to provide an ordered list of who you think is most likely Town/scum. Would you be able to do this? You don't need full explanations, the list is fine for right now.

Again it's about the time she became aware that the thread was open, not when the thread opened. It's out of game related.
🤨
I'm skeptical about this, but I will accept that this could be a thing you actually believe.

Fonti coming in town reading Frozen.
The situation isn't really equivalent. When fonti came in, she was being pushed by several players and townread Frozen to help relieve the pressure on herself. In this game, we have a situation where a Town player (me) is under pressure and the hypothetical scum player is not. They have no reason to stick out their neck for me to relieve the pressure on me. It's much more likely that Town!UP is trying to genuinely help one of his Townreads than scum!UP is trying to help me out.

I'm listening.
His early posting (everything before #403) didn't seem to be really doing anything. He was just there for a bit, not really trying to engage with anyone or comment on anything of significance. So he went into my early scum pool.

On #442:
The reads here are thin, but his read on Ryker is fine (I'm townreading him too, as are a lot of others), his read on me is fair enough. His comments on Sabrar and bessie are plausible, given that Ryu apparently has no memory of Crossover and is basically going with no meta on either player (which seems weird to me but he's been consistent about it).

There's nothing here that is really objectionable, and it's a definite improvement over everything he had posted previously. He doesn't go into detail on everyone, but he explains his strongest reads, and in a subsequent post explains his Town leans.

Since then he's been poking around asking questions and trying to get information. Nothing jumps out at me as super townie, but nothing jumps out as obviously scummy either. On balance I think he's slightly more likely Town than chance. So, he gets to be nullTown. I'll accept that you have meta on Ryu and might have better sense of his motivations and intents, but going by what I see, he looks okay. Not great, but okay.

Would knowing that it was a different Secret Santa have changed your answer?? You wouldn't have remembered that line regardless, so there was no need to ask this.
Sabrar in SS 2017 played an extremely eccentric, hyperactive style (he was a day vig but could only target people who voted for him so he was trolling for most of the early part of the game). SS 2018 was a fairly conventional game that I don't really remember very well at all. If he had said 2018, I would have just said, no. In 2017, at least, I feel it's consistent with how I remember him playing that game.
 

#HBC | Ryker

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On mobile, can someone link me the latest votecount?

I've mostly been sitting here twiddling my thumbs waiting for people to be caught up, but it's past time we start rolling.

We've got like 4 days left and I would prefer not to have a deadline scramble.

I don't care about an elaborate read at this instance unless you feel the need to provide one, in which case great, but I do need the whole thread to weigh in on if they're willing to lynch Laserguy or Wam or both or neither.

If it's neither, you better be campaigning hard to get some steam for a new wagon.

Personally, I am perfectly fine with offing either.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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looks like I'm not the only one getting slammed with work, I was on call over the weekend and had to advise investigators in the middle of the ****ing night both saturday and sunday night so my sleep schedule is shot rn and unfortunately I will continue to be on 24/7 duty until Friday morning

still need to re-read laserguy today, planning to get that done tonight

fonti's large townread list def contrasts with her wolfing from Things I Like, only other angle I can see for scum!fonti is to not ruffle the feathers of other generally town read slots so she gets a cozy early spot in a developing voting block that xivii was hinting at trying to solidify

UP literally feels the way he plays imposter in Among Us which I know is a bizarre meta read but I am very uncomfortable with the slot

Red ruy feels lost and I can't tell if that's just NAI laziness or scum skimming derivative

bessie comes off townier given her reaction to me blowing off her deflective answer to me calling her post the fluffiest in the game. I don't think scum!bessie says "wow look at FF trying to dodge opining on maven" as if I should have known that in her eyes, maven could be attacked on the same grounds. very strange narrowing of the possible rebuttal against my slot if she's scum. She could just have easily said "wow look at FF ignoring me because his attack was bad and he knows it" when instead she jumped to the conclusion that I was trying to avoid addressing maven's slot which feels like town!bessie projecting her own comparison of herself against other slots onto my thought process without realizing it and getting a mistaken but understandable scum ping from it as a result

I don't think scum!UP has any problem pushing against town consensus when his slot is a real play consideration for a few slots. from my limited experience with scum!UP, he doesn't play aggro scum unless thunderdome'd or setting up a thunderdome is a necessary path to endgame. I'd expect to see more subtle FUD tactics coming from scum!UP in earlygame and I think his current play is consistent with that. UP's scum game I think revolves around subtle suggestion, getting people to doubt themselves without realizing its UP's commentary doing it. I think you're underestimating scum!UP having such early confidence that he's expressing genuine feelings here because to me, UP comes off as having an intentionally disarming approach which tracks with scum!UP imo



Xivii Xivii is this town!fonti legitimately being consonant with your coalition or scum!fonti reading the room and giving herself a free place in the delegation?

#HBC | Red Ryu #HBC | Red Ryu if you can only choose between laserguy and wam for the yeet today, who do you pick and why?

I really need to ISO vicarin, that's the project to follow the laserguy ISO

Wam can really, really go at this point

Unvote: UtopianPoyzin
Vote: Wam
Smashboards is blocked at my job and I cannot have my phone out at work normally. Grant most people are working from home but still I focus on work. I go off memory now.

Between Laser and Wam I would do Wam every situation at this point. I don't see why people are caling laser scum when I see his thought process step by step. I have an idea where his head is at. I don't agree with Fonti in the sense that I see the mindset and he is showing intent to find scum better than most players imo. His initial push on bessie where I do not agree with why they called bessie out I at least understood what he saw. I think a call out like that over the color stuff is more likely to come from town than scum.

Wam on the other hand is giving more of a IDGAF attitude but in turn is also being very unhelpful in his focus with people. His questionaire seems less focused on finding scum and more centered on himself.

I still would prefer we off Bessie over anyone at this point.
 
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