Apex 2015 Ruleset is out! Survey inside!

[Piford]

So much salt and complaining. 2 Stock is great, skyloft is bad and was a good decision to leave a stage with platforms without ledges and pits that force a stale mate til it changes out of this. DSR is great with having 9 stages in singles and 10 in doubles. Win going to the initiator of a suicide move is great and makes sense as with ledge mechanics they cant camp on the edge and will easily be punished with little to no fear after they miss their move. Castle siege seems like the only odd one to me due to size. but considering you cant jab lock someone after 3 hits and there are no regrab chain grabs, i can see the reason behind putting this one in, although i think every rosalina will go to this stage after halbred gets banned.

You have a month left to practice these rule sets after the game on the wii u has barely been out for more than a month. Totally a reasonable amount of time to get the feel of all the stages and the stocks.

Gl and see you guys at APEX 2015!

What are you talking about Skyloft has ledges. And Castle Siege and Halberd are still legal in Brawl, so I don't see them getting banned as their main problems in Brawl (chain grabs and overpowered sharking respectively) have been fixed.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

2 Stock is great, skyloft is bad and was a good decision to leave a stage with platforms without ledges and pits that force a stale mate til it changes out of this.

Skyloft has no transformation that lacks grabbable ledges with the exception of the walkoffs for obvious reasons. Additional data for your reading pleasure.

 

[Asdioh]

Come to think of it, I haven't seen many 3 stock tournaments aside from Sky's. This could also be a reason.

Interestingly, this was the most entertaining tournament I've watched.

 

[Firefoxx]

I find it hard to believe that if Smash 4 is 3 stocks its going to piss off the magical eSports Gods. 2 stocks makes rage, defense, and SD's have more of an impact on the game then they do at three stocks. Maybe I'm wrong about that. But it would be nice if there was a large scale attempt to prove that.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Interestingly, this was the most entertaining tournament I've watched.

Me too, but mostly for the reason of there being so much talent there.

 

[Radirgy]

Smash Bros people wanting to be esports is why the FGC wants nothing to do with Smash Bros.

 

[Asdioh]

Smash Bros people wanting to be esports is why the FGC wants nothing to do with Smash Bros.

Can you explain your post? I don't get what you mean.

 

[thehard]

Obviously 2 and a half stocks is the way to go. 3 stocks and all players start at 60% damage.

 

[Radirgy]

Can you explain your post? I don't get what you mean.

FGC = Fighting Games Community
Fighting game people don't like smash bros because they feel that as a competitive community it is too in bed with esports communities like the moba and star craft players. Stuff like HBox going to evo in a team curse shirt is the kind of stuff people complained about.

 

[Asdioh]

Well, I know what FGC means. I just don't know enough about esports to see what the problem with that is, is the point I'm trying to make. And is it relevant to Apex?

 

[Radirgy]

I'm not too big into esports or fighting games to really know too much myself. The vibe I basically get from it all is that people see smash bros in a certain negative light. I remember there being some complaints when melee was on at evo about the game not being a good fit for a handful of reasons both to do with the game itself and the mentality of the games community.
I think people going on about how smash bros wii u should be 2 stock for the sake of spectatorship is the kind of thing fighting game people look down upon because you then put business over the game.

I'm not saying I fully agree with these arguments but I can see why the fighting game community has some issues with smash. Some fighting game players will always have an issue with smash being considered a fighter anyway but for those who are accepting of smash it has to be taken into consideration what can of scene smash bros is, for a scene with a lot of grassroots history it does at times seem to be a black sheep among fighters for what kind of image it has created for itself, then again smash brothers doesn't have a history that goes back to the arcades, it was always originally a party game that was made for home use.

 

[Herbert Von Karajan]

- People have mixed feelings on Suicide Moves (Ganoncide, bowserside ,etc..) giving you a win despite what the scoreboard says...It's been like this in every other smash game however

This is false. In smash 64, the winner on the results screen is the winner of the match. Kirby can suicide with f-throw, for example, but it would be counted as a loss. The suicide rule is ****ing dumb.

 

[Hb2]

What happened with the 2-2-2-2 and 3-3-3-3 Miis? That part didn't get updated in the latest ruleset. Anyone knows?

 

[anikom15]

Two stock is silly, esp. when Brawl gets three stock. I prefer conservative stagelists, but there should be at least five starters.

IMO these rules are way too conservative for a new game.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

What happened with the 2-2-2-2 and 3-3-3-3 Miis? That part didn't get updated in the latest ruleset. Anyone knows?

They were removed.

 

[Hb2]

How could they be removed if they were never added in the first place? I'm talking about the supposed modification Jigglymaster mentioned before, that allowed Miis to also use 2-2-2-2 and 3-3-3-3 movesets.That part never got updated in the ruleset, and now that we have a new version it still doesn't appear.

 

[LiteralGrill]

How could they be removed if they were never added in the first place? I'm talking about the supposed modification Jigglymaster mentioned before, that allowed Miis to also use 2-2-2-2 and 3-3-3-3 movesets.That part never got updated in the ruleset, and now that we have a new version it still doesn't appear.

Yeah, they seemed to have decided not to update it after all. Dapuffster already posted he would not be going to Apex now because of it too.

 

[Djent]

Interestingly, this was the most entertaining tournament I've watched.

Wait, an invitational with all the top players was the most exciting tournament you've watched? Must've been the 3 stocks.

 

[Dr. Robotnik]

Two stock is silly, esp. when Brawl gets three stock. I prefer conservative stagelists, but there should be at least five starters.

IMO these rules are way too conservative for a new game.

stop comparing it to brawl. New game, new rules.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

2 stocks for ssb4 is ******** as hell. Ruins any big things happening for me in major tournaments.

But seriously... How does anyone running the tournaments like these rules? Surely not just because For Glory... Right? Those are just supposed to be speedy for the sake of online. Other smaller tournaments will probably just replicate from 3 to 2. Ugh.

Matches will run by way too fast without any real comebacks. Cheap tricks coming at you. Thanks assholes.

 

[anikom15]

stop comparing it to brawl. New game, new rules.

I'd love to hear your thoughts about why two stock is better than three stock.

 

[Dr. Robotnik]

I'd love to hear your thoughts about why two stock is better than three stock.

You ever fight a good, or even a decent rosalina? Ive had a best of 5 set where i won 3-0 take almost 20 minutes (ya know, time between matches) because almost every dame game goes til the last 30 seconds in a 2 stock 6 minute. An extra stock and only 2 minutes would give rosalina the ability to time out people, and im not saying than lets make it a 9-10 minute timer, because nobody is going to sit through a 1 hour grand finals bracket reset.

On the flip side of things, smash 4 has a rubber band effect called rage, so regardless of stock start count, its almost damn near impossible to win if you lose the first stock. Lets say you quickly take back the stock and tie it up. You are still faced with the same situation for the last stock. 9 times out of 10 though, it gets out of control because rage eliminates the neutral game and also makes it harder and takes more damage for the person who lost the first stock to even clean up the other guys first stock.

To sum up, this game is really all about the person who takes the first stock and maintains stage control and pressure for the second stock for the victory.

 

[GUIGUI]

(...)

On the flip side of things, smash 4 has a rubber band effect called rage, so regardless of stock start count, its almost damn near impossible to win if you lose the first stock. Lets say you quickly take back the stock and tie it up. You are still faced with the same situation for the last stock. 9 times out of 10 though, it gets out of control because rage eliminates the neutral game and also makes it harder and takes more damage for the person who lost the first stock to even clean up the other guys first stock.

To sum up, this game is really all about the person who takes the first stock and maintains stage control and pressure for the second stock for the victory.

What you said just there is precisely the reason as of why 3 stocks are needed. With 2 stocks, it's just a game of who will **** up first. 3 Stocks actually allow come-back and the display of skills beyond not ****ing up.

 

[John12346]

Changing the rules of Apex itself isn't the real goal, nice as that would be. The main thing is making sure the voices are heard.

This may be a little late, but I would like to point out how important this is if you want to make a change. Try throwing some ideas around, and see what you can come up with.

 

[TastyCarcass]

Two stocks is awful simply because it increases the likelihood of games being 1 stock vs 1 stock, high percent, where both players end up having to camp.

 

[Pazx]

3 stock takes too long in my opinion and that in itself is enough of a reason not to use it.

 

[BestTeaMaker]

I understand why Apex went conservative on their Smash for Wii U ruleset. It's a brand new game, so they want to take what has been most played so far so that practice for it is familiar.

However, I hope most people realize that Apex isn't the end of Smash 4's metagame. What with the game so young, we are supposed to be experimenting with different rulesets and ideas. 1/2/3/4 stock matches, customs on/off, large/small stagelist, etc...

The game is barely more than a month old, even less for some countries. I hope that within the outcries of Melee/PM is superior and Smash 4 sucks, people remember that this game is in its infancy. Let's not decide its fate without giving it the chance to grow and show its own strengths and talent.

 

[Asdioh]

You ever fight a good, or even a decent rosalina? Ive had a best of 5 set where i won 3-0 take almost 20 minutes (ya know, time between matches) because almost every dame game goes til the last 30 seconds in a 2 stock 6 minute. An extra stock and only 2 minutes would give rosalina the ability to time out people, and im not saying than lets make it a 9-10 minute timer, because nobody is going to sit through a 1 hour grand finals bracket reset.

Every smash game has characters like that though. Peach/Jigglypuff/Young Link, all of which have seem some decent representation in tournaments, often take a long time, especially when matched up against each other. Melee still has 4 stocks though.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

I like 2 stocks, **** I'd even go for a 4/5 minute timer.
Short games are nice.

 

[anikom15]

You ever fight a good, or even a decent rosalina? Ive had a best of 5 set where i won 3-0 take almost 20 minutes (ya know, time between matches) because almost every dame game goes til the last 30 seconds in a 2 stock 6 minute. An extra stock and only 2 minutes would give rosalina the ability to time out people, and im not saying than lets make it a 9-10 minute timer, because nobody is going to sit through a 1 hour grand finals bracket reset.

On the flip side of things, smash 4 has a rubber band effect called rage, so regardless of stock start count, its almost damn near impossible to win if you lose the first stock. Lets say you quickly take back the stock and tie it up. You are still faced with the same situation for the last stock. 9 times out of 10 though, it gets out of control because rage eliminates the neutral game and also makes it harder and takes more damage for the person who lost the first stock to even clean up the other guys first stock.

To sum up, this game is really all about the person who takes the first stock and maintains stage control and pressure for the second stock for the victory.

That's an extreme case that doesn't represent the norm.

The game changes on the last stock. With two stocks, half of the time is spent in the critical state. This might be good for spectators on a purely superficial level, but having only a third of the game in critical state is better for players.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Found a mii set that works for me in this set up - brawler 3333. Foot flurry is a poor man's onslaught but it's worth it to keep piston punch.

Actually now that I think of it brawler 1111 strikes me as a faster Ike with the added benefit of a projectile instead of a counter (need to work on timing with counter moves). Also checking out sword 2222, but probably not gonna take him too seriously because, well, he's the swordfighter.

 

[Ticker]

2 stocks for ssb4 is ******** as hell. Ruins any big things happening for me in major tournaments.

But seriously... How does anyone running the tournaments like these rules? Surely not just because For Glory... Right? Those are just supposed to be speedy for the sake of online. Other smaller tournaments will probably just replicate from 3 to 2. Ugh.

Matches will run by way too fast without any real comebacks. Cheap tricks coming at you. Thanks *******s.

Yes there are downsides to 2 stocks, but with 400 some entrants, 3 stocks would drasticlly increase the time it takes for the tournament to finish.

I like 2 stocks, **** I'd even go for a 4/5 minute timer.
Short games are nice.

And I think the TO likes when the tournament is running on time to.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Yes there are downsides to 2 stocks, but with 400 some entrants, 3 stocks would drasticlly increase the time it takes for the tournament to finish.

Understandable, yes... But then what about Brawl? Surely then THOSE matches would have to be 1-stock. Ho.

Honestly, I don't care about the APEX rules as much as I care about smaller scale regional tournaments doing what APEX is doing just for the sake of APEX doing them.
doing

But still, I feel the only way you could really justify the 2-stock limit on 4 and still have 3 on Brawl is the difference in entries. While I'm certain 4 will have a good bit more than Brawl will, I don't think it would matter that much to the point where they had to cut it down that much.

Nonetheless, I stand by my point and my feeling that 2-stock in SSB4 is wack yo.

 

[King_Vegetarian]

My issue is that those moves were patched specifically to make the initiator lose last stock (except for Ganondorf). Some characters can even survive Bowser's side B so it doesn't make sense.

You can DI out of Bowser's side B though. If you predict the direction the Bowser player will try to suicide in, you can hold in the opposite direction to move Bowser in that direction. Not sure if this is new to anyone, but I discovered it with my friends awhile back. Pretty handy when fighting a desperate Bowser.

 

[shapular]

You can DI out of Bowser's side B though. If you predict the direction the Bowser player will try to suicide in, you can hold in the opposite direction to move Bowser in that direction. Not sure if this is new to anyone, but I discovered it with my friends awhile back. Pretty handy when fighting a desperate Bowser.

It's dependent on who has the lower percent, I think. Lower percent controls where it goes. That's what I've heard.

El Psy... Congree? Nyan~?

 

[anikom15]

I'd be fine with two stocks if it meant customs were legal.

 

[Venks]

Really? 2222 and 3333 is banned from Miis? Why? It's not like it took real work to set up.
This is such a shame. When will Apex staff talk to us about their choices?

 

[Thinkaman]

El Psy... Congree?

Congroo, I'm sure you mean.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Sad about the miis - just found out. Still practicing with 1111 though.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Really? 2222 and 3333 is banned from Miis? Why? It's not like it took real work to set up.
This is such a shame. When will Apex staff talk to us about their choices?

They actually did legalize the 2222 and 3333 Miis. They did it recently, so at there's that.