Apex 2015 Game Lineup Announced!

[WT!]

NO PROJECT M?! FORGET IT, THIS IS NOT THE GREATEST TOURNAMENT.

 

[King Donkey Kong]

Hmm everyone insulting real Smash Bros games because their hack of one didn't make it?...

 

[OptimistNic]

PLEASE tell me Salty Suite will return.

 

[oGr33n]

Can Nintendo just buy Project M off of the respective owners? It will just turn into another one of their titles. They can rename it Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Edition or something. Use their resources to polish it up and sell it afterwards. I don't know if this isn't possible or Nintendo, namely the creators of the Smash series are too proud for that.

 

[King Donkey Kong]

Can Nintendo just buy Project M off of the respective owners? It will just turn into another one of their titles. They can rename it Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Edition or something. Use their resources to polish it up and sell it afterwards. I don't know if this isn't possible or Nintendo, namely the creators of the Smash series are too proud for that.

Why would they want to go backwards?

 

[Vigilante]

As an individual, I want to say this:

For the longest time, Project M players were accused of being Melee elitists. This is of course false for the most part as our tournaments include Brawl players, 64 players, smashers who began smash with Project M, and people who play every game in the series.

There is such a thing as Brawl elitism. Some of the comments I have read reek of intolerance and bigottery.

People have worked hard on this game, working on it nearly full time while they also have day jobs, and whilst it is not an official Nintendo game, it is still a part of the community and just as deserving of representation.

Just because the stigma was forcefully attributed to melee and Project M players, playing Brawl does not exclude you from being an elitist jerk. I have recieved a death threat in person from a Brawl player while I was at Poylybash for example (albeit I wasn't really scared). We would much more benefit from the comunity standing tall as a unit rather than it being divided.

 

[Mr.Random]

This thread has so many hurtful posts. I understand that getting along is hard for some but this is ridiculous.

 

[Shog]

The butthurt is stong into this, and why the hype for a mod? Why not putting all Smash Flash games too? You have to be kidding

 

[Boss N]

While I'm a huge PM player, I'm not really distraught about this. Mostly cuz i saw it coming.

This isn't going to be the end of PM guys.

Apex isn't the reason P:M is huge. Xanadu is. This doesn't matter.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Can Nintendo just buy Project M off of the respective owners? It will just turn into another one of their titles. They can rename it Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Edition or something. Use their resources to polish it up and sell it afterwards. I don't know if this isn't possible or Nintendo, namely the creators of the Smash series are too proud for that.

And be Another Street Fighter? ha.

 

[KrymsonSkyz]

a editorial, or an editorial? English 101, grade 2 m8

 

[GabPR]

I have no doubt that Apex will be big with or without PM, but considering the overwhelming support it got at Apex 2014, I feel that they could have put it as a secondary game or at least give a more detailed explanation to the community that validates as in why they excluded it.

 

[Xinc]

This'll be good.

But I doubt PM will leave this standing. Maybe a side event.

 

[PsiArbyOmega]

The end of PM lol (jk)

jeez finally someone who doesn't think PM is dead!!!

 

[Hellrazor]

Welp, this is sad. I was really looking forward to seeing PM. Not gonna bother addressing the ****storm in the thread; just saying that I wish Nintendo didn't feel the need to pry into something for the fans of Smash as a whole--all of its parts--and not exclusively the things they designed, just to insert their own ads. They've shown time and time again that they don't design Smash games for the competitive following, yet they decided to step onto our territory anyway. It's a smack in the face, truly, and a money-grubbing move by a disgusting corporation. The ugly side of Nintendo.

Nothing we can do, unfortunately. They must have Apex by the balls if they managed this. There's always next year and every other big tournament. And I'll always have Xanadu to look forward to.

 

[oGr33n]

Why would they want to go backwards?

Nintendo wouldn't be dropping Smash 4 if they were to buy Project M. It could just be a side game. This way, Sakurai doesn't have to worry about the skill gap between the casual and competitive crowds because you wouldn't expect the casual crowd to be buying Project M. It would be an extension of his game, made from another developer if he doesn't mind it.

This could also handle the issues with Nintendo reluctantly giving Project M an official name for itself.

 

[PsiArbyOmega]

Apex 2015 OH MY GOD SO MUCH HYPE!!!!! All 4 Smash games at 1 event!!! I really hope to attend!!!!!

64 Mains:
64 Secondaries:
Melee Mains:
Melee Secondaries:
Brawl Mains:
Brawl Secondaries:
3DS/Wii U Mains:
3DS/Wii U Secondaries:

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

As an individual, I want to say this:

For the longest time, Project M players were accused of being Melee elitists. This is of course false for the most part as our tournaments include Brawl players, 64 players, smashers who began smash with Project M, and people who play every game in the series.

There is such a thing as Brawl elitism. Some of the comments I have read reek of intolerance and bigottery.

People have worked hard on this game, working on it nearly full time while they also have day jobs, and whilst it is not an official Nintendo game, it is still a part of the community and just as deserving of representation.

Just because the stigma was forcefully attributed to melee and Project M players, playing Brawl does not exclude you from being an elitist jerk. I have recieved a death threat in person from a Brawl player while I was at Poylybash for example (albeit I wasn't really scared). We would much more benefit from the comunity standing tall as a unit rather than it being divided.

It doesn't exclude you, but as a mod and in tournaments there have been far far far more elitism and straight up antagonism from Melee and PM players to Brawl players.

Crush making his Project B thread which was clear baiting from the start.

The dude I forget who kept making troll threads saying Brawl sucks and when he got banned forr trolling made accounts called Brawl sucks in multiple areas.

Seeing people boo and his people on friendly set-ups for Brawl, peopel chanting Melee during Brawl top 8 at APEX.

I don't doubt there has been incidents the other way around, but Melee and PM communities are far worse from that standpoint than the other way around. That's what I know from the past 6 years.

 

[CyberZixx]

Ah well. Cause I won't be caring as much about Apex since PM is not in the lineup.

 

[oGr33n]

Welp, this is sad. I was really looking forward to seeing PM. Not gonna bother addressing the ****storm in the thread; just saying that I wish Nintendo didn't feel the need to pry into something for the fans of Smash as a whole--all of its parts--and not exclusively the things they designed, just to insert their own ads. They've shown time and time again that they don't design Smash games for the competitive following, yet they decided to step onto our territory anyway. It's a smack in the face, truly, and a money-grubbing move by a disgusting corporation. The ugly side of Nintendo.

Nothing we can do, unfortunately. They must have Apex by the balls if they managed this. There's always next year and every other big tournament. And I'll always have Xanadu to look forward to.

Project M is a hack, which you very well know. Its forcing a game into something it wasn't meant to be, its not right for it to be used. The hard work from the SSBB development team is placed into something they did not agree on.

If only the PM team can develop their own fighters, stages, and sound effect (make their own game altogether)....maybe one day.

 

[Sonsa]

Wow, that is an amazing line-up...might havta watch all of it! (besides KI and GG personally not interested) Totally understand why 3DS version isnt in, and PM too, I mean it's kinda just a hack...a really neat one, but...not for big tourneys like this... But yeah, simply cant wait for all the smash bros, pokemon, UMvC3 and SF!

 

[TopTierPichu]

PM in itself is just a giant manifestation of melee elitism, they literally took a game and and changed it so that it could play just like Melee, imo im kinda glad its being taken out of the spotlight

 

[CyberZixx]

All these people dissing PM because it is a mod must not play it and realize many of us feel it is better than most of the main Smash games.

 

[ShrekItRalph]

Welp, this is sad. I was really looking forward to seeing PM. Not gonna bother addressing the ****storm in the thread; just saying that I wish Nintendo didn't feel the need to pry into something for the fans of Smash as a whole--all of its parts--and not exclusively the things they designed, just to insert their own ads. They've shown time and time again that they don't design Smash games for the competitive following, yet they decided to step onto our territory anyway. It's a smack in the face, truly, and a money-grubbing move by a disgusting corporation. The ugly side of Nintendo.

If Nintendo wanted to, they could have C&D'ed PM years ago. The fact that they haven't shows that they do at least somewhat care about the fanbase. Yes Nintendo doesn't want to acknowledge the existence of PM in any official way, but honestly due to the legal ****storm that would ensure if they did, it's for the best that they continue to turn a blind eye to it. And all toxic attitudes like this does is give Nintendo more incentive to C&D it in the future.

 

[ShadyWolfe]

All these people dissing PM because it is a mod must not play it and realize many of us feel it is better than most of the main Smash games.

Doesn't matter if it is "better" or not a mod does not belong in a major tournament

 

[eshu125]

Are you sure about that? Because I remember seeing at least one thread dedicated to "why Smash 4 doesn't deserve to have Melee's spot at APEX" and there were similar conversations being had throughout other threads. I guess people figured it would be either Melee and Project: M or Smash 4 and Project: M. So much for the power of prediction, eh?

You're thinking of Evo

 

[Delzethin]

Wow, a lineup that includes every (official) Smash game? Condolences to the PM fans, but know your (temporary) sacrifice will not be in vain.

Time for the world to see how truly viable Smash 4 is!

 

[Hellrazor]

Project M is a hack, which you very well know. Its forcing a game into something it wasn't meant to be, its not right for it to be used. The hard work from the SSBB development team is placed into something they did not agree on.

If only the PM team can develop their own fighters, stages, and sound effect (make their own game altogether)....maybe one day.

I couldn't give two ****s whether Brawl was included in the lineup or not. It's something I have no interest in. But Nintendo went out of its way to keep PM out of the tournament. I don't understand the need for such an effort. Everything Nintendo made was there in full; who gives a **** if something extra and popular was added? PM was designed by the competitive players for the competitive players. This just seems like an act that seeks to alienate players.

If Nintendo wanted to, they could have C&D'ed PM years ago. The fact that they haven't shows that they do at least somewhat care about the fanbase. Yes Nintendo doesn't want to acknowledge the existence of PM in any official way, but honestly due to the legal ****storm that would ensure if they did, it's for the best that they continue to turn a blind eye to it. And all toxic attitudes like this does is give Nintendo more incentive to C&D it in the future.

If they want to turn a blind eye, then they should turn a blind eye, not get flustered and have it exempt from the tournament as a whole. Nintendo doesn't organize or run things like Evo, Apex, Big House, KoC, etc. I understand that there might be sponsorship and permissions to use their products involved, but they only care to dig their hands into the tournaments' content when something they've just thrown into the market and want extra profits off of is part of the scene.

I have a feeling that after Smash 4 hype has passed, maybe a few years later, PM will be back at Apex, simply because Nintendo has pointed its marketing boner at whatever other franchise they're focusing on at the time.

 

[Deleted member]

My

Just stopping by to wish good luck to the 5 people entering Brawl.

I guess you're taking PM not being in Apex pretty well :\

 

[kchamp523]

It's kind of funny that for the past while the debate has been "Melee or Smash 4 at APEX". Then, we get the best of both worlds and BOTH are present, but nobody's paying attention to that because "No Project M" gives people something else to complain about.

Oh well, life goes on I suppose.

Umm, where did you find this debate about "Melee vs Smash 4" at APEX? I only have seen debate about "Melee vs Smash 4" at Evo, where unlike APEX, will most likely only have one smash game.

 

[Vigilante]

@#HBC | Red Ryu

You speak from the stance of a Brawl player. Because of this, you would most likely see the negative from the other side more readily, but let me assure you that the vitriol from the Brawl community is at least equivalent, but I won't venture to say it's worse as I don't speak without evidence.

If you're on the Project M side of things, you experience both sides. You're under the scrutiny of Melee and Brawl players alike, and from my experience, I've been harassed by more representatives of the Brawl community. Things have been said that I would not repeat here as it makes me sick to my stomach. Some involve threats to my family. I took it calmly as it was just the ramblings of an angry, sad person. Mind you, I have spoken to many in that community and am friends with representatives from that community. Like in any group, there are bad eggs that make either group look bad.

My argument was that there is in fact such a thing as Brawl elitism. You try to divert the argument by asserting that there are more Melee elitists (albeit without evidence) instead of staying on topic. The numbers do not matter in this instance. I am merely calling out negative attitudes that need to be adressed if we are to co-exist as a community. By excusing bas behaviour, you are not helping.

I have called out Brawl elitism (On arguments like being called a Meleetard) only to be told I was a Melee elitist for stating that this was in fact a form of elitism. The strategy of attempting to go "But you're worse!" is not conducive to good dialogue.

Melee elitism may be a thing for a small subset of people, but the Brawl community is not devoid of guilt and must be called-out just the same. As a representative, you should not be excusing that behaviour, but condemning it, just as I condemn any elitism coming from the Project M camp.

We may not like the same game, but we can help each other as smashers.

 

[Xermo]

My


I guess you're taking PM not being in Apex pretty well :\

Don't see where my post insinuated that I cared about P:M being at Apex.

 

[victinivcreate1]

Doesn't matter if it is "better" or not a mod does not belong in a major tournament

PM in itself is just a giant manifestation of melee elitism

Project M is a hack, which you very well know. Its forcing a game into something it wasn't meant to be, its not right for it to be used. The hard work from the SSBB development team is placed into something they did not agree on.

To all the PM-only players: you aren't real Smashers. Nobody will miss you if you don't go to Apex or other tournaments or stop playing altogether.

This is disgusting. Time to educate you four, and everyone else who is hating on .

SSB64, the greatest game in existence. Everyone loved it. And it had some cool technical stuff for players who wanted to get good. Win win.

SSBM the mistake. Still super fun casually. No one really said "oh everyone drops like bricks, oh too fast". SSB64 is slower than Melee and you didn't hear people saying these things. Melee eventually got really fast, and guess what?

Sakurai HATED us. He did not want his game to be a competitive fighting game. He did not want people to beat others. He wanted this "fair playing ground for everyone".

Brawl, the result of this. Sakurai did this to blatantly disrespect those who played this game competitively. This is when people finally started saying "Melee is too fast". The game was completely catered to casuals. You can airdodge out of hitstun 13 frames after hitstun started, and attack out of it 25 frames after it started. This makes combos null. The recoveries are drastically buffed and many characters can grab the ledge from pretty far away. The shields were buffed so there are very few moves that are truly safe on shield, and vs good players, NOTHING is truly safe on shield. He even DESIGNED a character that was MEANT to destroy everyone else. This character was Meta Knight, and the only other character that Sakurai noticed that could go even with him was Diddy Kong, and that was because of his Bananas, which were never truly intended to be as effective as they were. We now know that ICs do very well vs MK too. He also gave other characters dumb things like Falco's CG, Dedede's infinite CG, etc.

We got mad. Most stuck with Melee. Some moved to Brawl. A slew of new players who wanted to prove Sakurai wrong made it as competitive as possible. And a few individuals made PM.

PM's goals are this:
Project M hopes to achieve a game similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee in many respects. It does not, however, intend to be a 1:1 Melee clone. The following is a list of the main aspects of Super Smash Bros. Melee that inspired and have carried over into Project M:

• A fast-paced game
• with flowing, natural movement
• where the player has a great degree of control over their character due to the technical skill that they've achieved.
• The balance of offense and defense changes depending on the exact matchup and playstyle, but overall tends to favor offense slightly.
• Offstage edgeguarding is risky but rewarding, while on-stage edgeguarding is safer but less rewarding.
• Recoveries generally require great skill to use, with the advantage usually being with the edgeguarding player, with some exceptions.
• The combos are challenging and spontaneous, with anything longer than 2-3 hits requiring a knowledge of both characters' options and some degree of prediction and/or a deep understanding of the mental aspect of the game.

In short, Project M aims to capture the essence of what made Melee a truly great game in our eyes.

PM improved on a lot of Brawl's flaws. But it also kept many things that made Brawl awesome (DACUS FTW).

So NO, PM is NOT a Melee clone TopTierPichu.


APEX 2014 had
629 Melee
382 Project M
370 Brawl
157 SSB64

SKTAR 3 had
237 Melee
256 Project M
97 Brawl

CEO 2014 had
262 Melee
255 Project M

Zenith had
281 Melee
165 Project M

Low Tier City 2 had
75 Melee
121 Project M

The Big House 4 had
570 (or 574 not sure) Melee
333 Project M

See Shapular? PM has a very big following. People LIKE the game. Its popular for a REASON. PM has OBLITERATED Brawl in attendance in every tourney both were featured at. PM had even beaten MELEE in attendance in some tournies.

ShadyWolfe, PM has been in SEVERAL major tournies and has been very successful. To say it all of a sudden doesn't is silly. If PM was having low turnouts then I'd understand, but 200-350 people showing up is not a low turnout to me.

EDIT: Also, how DARE some of you disrespect the PMDT

Guess how long it took to code Mewtwo into 3.0?

Over 700 Hours. 700 hours they could have used to do other things. Thats basically a MONTH of programming. ONE MONTH GONE of their life. They used that to build a character for a hack game that they don't even generate REVENUE from, and they're using THIER resources to do it. Heck they're technically risking bugging up their computers from all the programs that they're using.

Brawl took Sakurai 3 years to make but he was getting paid to do it, AND nintendo was giving him the resources. These guys are PROFESSIONALS. The PMDT is full of AMATEURS. And yet these AMATEURS are doing a downright amazing job, as their hack is garnering more players at tournaments than the real game (Brawl).

@ TopTierPichu
When was the last time that Fox's shine didnt have invincibility in Melee, or his lasers did less damage the farther they go. When was Mewtwo top tier in Melee. When did Ganondorf have a CG in Melee. When was Falcon able to grab the edge with Raptor Boost in Melee. When was Ike in Melee lmao. When was DACUS and glide toss in Melee. When was platform cancelling (brawl style) in Melee.

 

[TopTierPichu]

I never said it was a melee clone? but you literally explain how it is Melee elitism by saying "Project M hopes to achieve a game similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee in many respects"

 

[TheFadedWarrior]

Bleh, why don't they ever have Soulcalibur V at Apex?

Guys, you gotta realize that Project M is a mod. I'm pretty sure Nintendo has something to do with Project M not being on the list. Most likely because it's a mod.

Exactly. They probably asked Nintendo to have SSB4 at Apex, and Nintendo said yes but told them no Project M.

 

[Z25]

i like the lineup but seriously no PM, don't care for the 3ds version beung absent though.

 

[kchamp523]

This is disgusting. Time to educate you four, and everyone else who is hating on .

SSB64, the greatest game in existence. Everyone loved it. And it had some cool technical stuff for players who wanted to get good. Win win.

SSBM the mistake. Still super fun casually. No one really said "oh everyone drops like bricks, oh too fast". SSB64 is slower than Melee and you didn't hear people saying these things. Melee eventually got really fast, and guess what?

Sakurai HATED us. He did not want his game to be a competitive fighting game. He did not want people to beat others. He wanted this "fair playing ground for everyone".

Brawl, the result of this. Sakurai did this to blatantly disrespect those who played this game competitively. This is when people finally started saying "Melee is too fast". The game was completely catered to casuals. You can airdodge out of hitstun 13 frames after hitstun started, and attack out of it 25 frames after it started. This makes combos null. The recoveries are drastically buffed and many characters can grab the ledge from pretty far away. The shields were buffed so there are very few moves that are truly safe on shield, and vs good players, NOTHING is truly safe on shield. He even DESIGNED a character that was MEANT to destroy everyone else. This character was Meta Knight, and the only other character that Sakurai noticed that could go even with him was Diddy Kong, and that was because of his Bananas, which were never truly intended to be as effective as they were. We now know that ICs do very well vs MK too. He also gave other characters dumb things like Falco's CG, Dedede's infinite CG, etc.

We got mad. Most stuck with Melee. Some moved to Brawl. A slew of new players who wanted to prove Sakurai wrong made it as competitive as possible. And a few individuals made PM.

PM's goals are this:
Project M hopes to achieve a game similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee in many respects. It does not, however, intend to be a 1:1 Melee clone. The following is a list of the main aspects of Super Smash Bros. Melee that inspired and have carried over into Project M:

• A fast-paced game
• with flowing, natural movement
• where the player has a great degree of control over their character due to the technical skill that they've achieved.
• The balance of offense and defense changes depending on the exact matchup and playstyle, but overall tends to favor offense slightly.
• Offstage edgeguarding is risky but rewarding, while on-stage edgeguarding is safer but less rewarding.
• Recoveries generally require great skill to use, with the advantage usually being with the edgeguarding player, with some exceptions.
• The combos are challenging and spontaneous, with anything longer than 2-3 hits requiring a knowledge of both characters' options and some degree of prediction and/or a deep understanding of the mental aspect of the game.

In short, Project M aims to capture the essence of what made Melee a truly great game in our eyes.

PM improved on a lot of Brawl's flaws. But it also kept many things that made Brawl awesome (DACUS FTW).

So NO, PM is NOT a Melee clone TopTierPichu.


APEX 2014 had
629 Melee
382 Project M
370 Brawl
157 SSB64

SKTAR 3 had
237 Melee
256 Project M
97 Brawl

CEO 2014 had
262 Melee
255 Project M

Zenith had
281 Melee
165 Project M

Low Tier City 2 had
75 Melee
121 Project M

The Big House 4 had
570 (or 574 not sure) Melee
333 Project M

See Shapular? PM has a very big following. People LIKE the game. Its popular for a REASON. PM has OBLITERATED Brawl in attendance in every tourney both were featured at. PM had even beaten MELEE in attendance in some tournies.

ShadyWolfe, PM has been in SEVERAL major tournies and has been very successful. To say it all of a sudden doesn't is silly. If PM was having low turnouts then I'd understand, but 200-350 people showing up is not a low turnout to me.

EDIT: Also, how DARE some of you disrespect the PMDT

Guess how long it took to code Mewtwo into 3.0?

Over 700 Hours. 700 hours they could have used to do other things. Thats basically a MONTH of programming. ONE MONTH GONE of their life. They used that to build a character for a hack game that they don't even generate REVENUE from, and they're using THIER resources to do it. Heck they're technically risking bugging up their computers from all the programs that they're using.

Brawl took Sakurai 3 years to make but he was getting paid to do it, AND nintendo was giving him the resources. These guys are PROFESSIONALS. The PMDT is full of AMATEURS. And yet these AMATEURS are doing a downright amazing job, as their hack is garnering more players at tournaments than the real game (Brawl).

@ TopTierPichu
When was the last time that Fox's shine didnt have invincibility in Melee, or his lasers did less damage the farther they go. When was Mewtwo top tier in Melee. When did Ganondorf have a CG in Melee. When was Falcon able to grab the edge with Raptor Boost in Melee. When was Ike in Melee lmao. When was DACUS and glide toss in Melee. When was platform cancelling (brawl style) in Melee.

Good post. +1

 

[Vigilante]

I never said it was a melee clone? but you literally explain how it is Melee elitism by saying "Project M hopes to achieve a game similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee in many respects"

So... liking elements of Melee makes us elitists? How?

 

[TopTierPichu]

So... liking elements of Melee makes us elitists? How?

you guys took Melee and tried to shove it in brawl because it was not "melee enough" am I missing something?

 

[victinivcreate1]

you guys took Melee and tried to shove it in brawl because it was not "melee enough" am I missing something?

Bruh you saying that Brawl MK is better balanced than a nerfed Melee Fox