Event - Apex 2015 APEX 2014 Ruleset Proposal: Timer Change

[Dekillsage]

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

How about you make it 12 minutes if the longer timer will deter people from timing out people
14 minutes
16
18
20
etc.

Nice logic there?

 

[Xyro77]

People whos goal is to time out will time out regardless of what the timer is set at. Ive tested this several times. Ive had people time out 20min timers. increasing the timer DOES NOT stop time outs. It only makes the event run longer.

 

[Gardex]

All this fighting between 8 and 10 minutes


and I'm just sitting here with my 9 minutes

 

[MeekSpeedy]

This is really a mundane issue. 8 minutes is a great standard because it prevents tournaments running longer than they should. If anything, shorten the timer so I can go to sleep earlier. And besides, you all treat it like timeouts are a bad thing. The final minute of a timeout has to be the most hype thing in competitive Brawl. Brawls gameplay is so stale from a spectator standpoint(In comparison to every other competitive fighter-esque game), there's only a handful of things that intrigue the audience. The way the crowd and players react in a timeout situation is so bat **** insane, it's honestly amazing. And it's not like timeouts are common in smash, and they also aren't common in traditional fighters such as marvel and street fighter. But they have existed for years, and will continue to do so. As someone who's went into matchups with the intent of timing out, I can tell you first hand that raising the timer 2 minutes is only going to prolong the inevitable. I'd also like the definition of "normal", since people think that a timeout victory at 8 minutes isn't "normal". If I already have to wait 8 minutes to find out who's going to win a match, than I'd consider whoever winning via timeout a "normal" win. Besides, we still technically don't have a standardized ruleset, so I guess there really isn't a grounds for what'd be considered normal.

 

[W.C.N]

I play in MI with LOE1 I do NOT want to watch him jump around air dodging for 30 minutes each set and winning because his opponents either cant catch him or give up from being annoyed by the boring playstyle, and make no mistake its not a guess he would do it its a promise.

id rather have the timer be set at 5 minutes with no stocks then 10 minute games

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Can we just run coin battles please?

 

[SoulPech]

The timer can be 8 minutes, it can be 10 minutes, it can be 20 minutes...it can even 2 minutes. I'm always playing by the clock. Changing the time won't solve anything

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm still under the impression that lowering the stock count to 2 would do far more to prevent timeouts because we wouldn't have to worry about the intentions of the players--It just gives them less "health" overall to accomplish their gameplan with, whether that's going all-in or camping for the time-out.

A timer change could be done in tandem (I know some people used to say "2 stock, 5/6 minutes,"), but if people are complaining about time-outs, you're better off going with something that will guarantee a lesser ability to go to time.

 

[BSP]

If avoiding timeouts is the goal, I'd change the stock count first too. How about 2 stock and 8 min?

 

[CyberZixx]

How about 1 stock, 5 minutes. The game would be much more hype.

 

[BlakDragon]

Guys, I have the answer.

Special Brawl settings: Fast, Flower, and stamina 1HP.

First to manipulate the RNG to lose their health one frame later than the other guy, wins.

 

[Dekillsage]

How about 1 stock, 5 minutes. The game would be much more hype.

No it wouldn't.

 

[Strong Badam]

I'm still under the impression that lowering the stock count to 2 would do far more to prevent timeouts because we wouldn't have to worry about the intentions of the players--It just gives them less "health" overall to accomplish their gameplan with, whether that's going all-in or camping for the time-out.

A timer change could be done in tandem (I know some people used to say "2 stock, 5/6 minutes,"), but if people are complaining about time-outs, you're better off going with something that will guarantee a lesser ability to go to time.

I've been saying this since 2011 lol. The game's pacing simply doesn't support 3 stocks when players are playing the game well. If you want fewer timeouts give people fewer resources with which to obtain a timeout. The rest of the tournament will also go faster as a result.

 

[CyberZixx]

No it wouldn't.

You are probably right. No matter the ruleset Brawl is not a spectator game.

 

[xDD-Master]

Actually 2 Stocks and 5/6 Minutes doesnt sound that bad to me. Even though everyone is used to 3Stocks and it would change PT/ZSS/Lucario and Wario a bit too.

 

[Dekillsage]

This would be a lot easier if this game didn't suck so hard sometimes.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

LGL is a stupid way to auto-lose. It's the timer that needs to be changed. I've been saying 10 minutes for years but no one will listen. This actually DISCOURAGES timeouts because it's much harder to succeed at winning that way.

Yeah, pretty much. I don't even go for the time out when I play. I simply play careful, especially vs ADHD's Diddy Kong who camps me so hard. It's really easy to get hit by anything and eat 40%. Stop making me sound the evil god of time outs who plays to win by rules. I play to win. I travelled quite a long way to have a chance at winning, and if I have to sit there 4 minutes so I don't die and still have a chance at winning (Which happened at the set), damn right I'm doing it. It just so happened that at the end, in a match where I barely had 10-15 ledge grabs, which is normal in any of my matches, it went to the time limit. That's all. With 2 more minutes we would of killed each other that match. No one knows how intense campy matches are between top players better than the top players themselves. More time would encourage more match time, since by the time it's 8 minutes people are on their last stock mid percent. 2 more minutes would simply mean that they end up killing each other at the end. I'm tired of this baseless '10 minute time outs' when the people that say don't even time out top level players like I do. If you want to ask someone, who's been in timeouts or close to, vs almost everyone, ASK ME! Not someone who's speaking out of watching videos. It's really easy to watch a video, blame MK, praise the other player and say no to the change of a timer, which would actually help the issue. But no one listens, because they aren't in this position. And guess what, we, the MK's, agree (Top players) for the most part. So stop assuming!

 

[Delta-cod]

Sorry Zero, the point isn't that you're intentionally looking for the time out, just that extending the timer doesn't fix the issue of sets taking too long. If people would rather sets take longer just so the game ends in a KO, then whatever, but when people say the 8 minute timer would cause a tournament to run slower than a tournament with a 10 minute timer, I laugh at them. You just reinforced the point I'd been making in this thread, with:

More time would encourage more match time, since by the time it's 8 minutes people are on their last stock mid percent. 2 more minutes would simply mean that they end up killing each other at the end

If people want to argue for a longer timer because they like to see matches end in KOs, that's fine. But nobody can pull the "it's better for the game because it makes people play faster/more aggressively so tournaments will end earlier and the game will be more spectator friendly" argument off. It's just not true.

 

[Strong Badam]

Actually 2 Stocks and 5/6 Minutes doesnt sound that bad to me. Even though everyone is used to 3Stocks and it would change PT/ZSS/Lucario and Wario a bit too.

I'm in favor of 2 stocks, 8 minutes.

 

[WindMajor]

Yeah, pretty much. I don't even go for the time out when I play. I simply play careful, especially vs ADHD's Diddy Kong who camps me so hard. It's really easy to get hit by anything and eat 40%. Stop making me sound the evil god of time outs who plays to win by rules. I play to win. I travelled quite a long way to have a chance at winning, and if I have to sit there 4 minutes so I don't die and still have a chance at winning (Which happened at the set), damn right I'm doing it. It just so happened that at the end, in a match where I barely had 10-15 ledge grabs, which is normal in any of my matches, it went to the time limit. That's all. With 2 more minutes we would of killed each other that match. No one knows how intense campy matches are between top players better than the top players themselves. More time would encourage more match time, since by the time it's 8 minutes people are on their last stock mid percent. 2 more minutes would simply mean that they end up killing each other at the end. I'm tired of this baseless '10 minute time outs' when the people that say don't even time out top level players like I do. If you want to ask someone, who's been in timeouts or close to, vs almost everyone, ASK ME! Not someone who's speaking out of watching videos. It's really easy to watch a video, blame MK, praise the other player and say no to the change of a timer, which would actually help the issue. But no one listens, because they aren't in this position. And guess what, we, the MK's, agree (Top players) for the most part. So stop assuming!

But Zero, your entire argument is hinging on assumptions.

 

[Juushichi]

APEX should switch to 2 stocks, 8 minutes.

 

[TSM ZeRo]

I'm just saying that time outs sucks, and the timer should be longer so the matches can be decided by a KO.

ALSO DELTA, YOU'RE SO CAMPY OMG. Also I never said anything about what you mention.

 

[Gardex]

2 stocks is the future

and the past.

Gimpyfish had it right all along

 

[Nintendude]

If people are trying to avoid time outs, why have a timer to begin with? Smash 64 has no timer and the longest tournament match from a previous Apex is somewhere around 10 minutes, but that's on Hyrule with 5 stocks.

 

[Phan7om]

If people are trying to avoid time outs, why have a timer to begin with? Smash 64 has no timer and the longest tournament match from a previous Apex is somewhere around 10 minutes, but that's on Hyrule with 5 stocks.

I actually proposed that idea a while ago but everyone here thought I was trolling or something so they just ignored it

 

[Delta-cod]

If people are trying to avoid time outs, why have a timer to begin with? Smash 64 has no timer and the longest tournament match from a previous Apex is somewhere around 10 minutes, but that's on Hyrule with 5 stocks.

Wasn't there a problem with having no timer at a local in NJ within the past month?

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Wasn't there a problem with having no timer at a local in NJ within the past month?

If I recall correctly, the issue at the tournament you're thinking wasn't so much that 64 didn't have a timer, but because M2K entered 6 events and held up all the brackets

 

[Delta-cod]

Having actually been there, the issue was that M2K was taking FOREVER to finish his Smash64 sets because he wasn't approaching because there was no timer. People actually began to put a timer on his matches for this reason.

While entering all 6 events didn't help, the issue could have been mitigated pretty considerably if every set he had in 64 didn't take longer than an average Brawl set.

 

[Nintendude]

Having actually been there, the issue was that M2K was taking FOREVER to finish his Smash64 sets because he wasn't approaching because there was no timer. People actually began to put a timer on his matches for this reason.

While entering all 6 events didn't help, the issue could have been mitigated pretty considerably if every set he had in 64 didn't take longer than an average Brawl set.

I mean, there might have been a couple individual games around the 10-minute mark. That's no worse than what people are proposing for Brawl.

 

[Delta-cod]

Well, I guess my point is that no timer isn't necessarily a good idea, as people will push the rules to any limit to win (which I don't have a problem with outside of practicality during an event). Especially with Brawl's strong ledge game, although I dunno if there's any sort of defensive strategy outside of Hyrule that's as big an issue in 64.

 

[Tesh]

no timer is ****ing ******** and you all know it.

why should i ever ever approach when there is a slim chance my opponent might give me the positional advantage out of boredom? you cant just have **** last forever.

64 and melee dont time out because the community doesnt play like that and it gets kind of tough to ledge camp in those games or sit in your **** and be a douchebag like you can in brawl. Even in high level melee play you see people SD ledge camping.

Zero, just as you said, you came a long long way to have a shot at victory. 2 more minutes won't stop you from trying to win right? Hell I remember when you ledge camped for 2 minutes when you were down 4 stocks in doubles. I don't blame you, I blame the game and the rules people run it with.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Having actually been there, the issue was that M2K was taking FOREVER to finish his Smash64 sets because he wasn't approaching because there was no timer. People actually began to put a timer on his matches for this reason.

While entering all 6 events didn't help, the issue could have been mitigated pretty considerably if every set he had in 64 didn't take longer than an average Brawl set.

People need to discard this mentality that 64 is a fast-paced, aggressive game.

It's far more similar to Brawl than melee.

 

[Tesh]

People need to discard this mentality that 64 is a fast-paced, aggressive game.

It's far more similar to Brawl than melee.

Really its alot about the community. Melee has become campier too with the influx of brawl players and styles too. Smash kind of lends itself to this kind of behavior.

 

[pidgezero_one]

This is still going on?

How about we put it up to a community vote

 

[WindMajor]

We did that once.
http://smashboards.com/threads/should-the-timer-be-set-to-10-minutes.317115/#post-13946011
http://smashboards.com/threads/should-the-stock-count-be-lowered.318871/

 

[| Big D |]

I'm just going to post this here in case anyone wants to know what would happen to brawl without a timer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zbp3HwDdo7U#t=255

The things I've seen in my region...

 

[Delta-cod]

Yo, that first kill with Pikachu tho.

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

I'm just going to post this here in case anyone wants to know what would happen to brawl without a timer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=zbp3HwDdo7U#t=255

The things I've seen in my region...

that is easily still my favorite brawl match of all time. That must have been so hype to see in person.

 

[xFumbles]

but......timeouts are hype.