Anything Can Change! Chrom for SSB4 - Closing Remarks, and an Invitation

[False Sense]

Why do we not need for Fire Emblem characters?

There's a lot of unique fighting styles that aren't represented. FE is also in a similar predicament to Pokémon where there isn't a strike of balance between different gens (in this case, canons.)

The question of "why not?" could really be applied to any series, I think. You could justify having a large amount of characters for quite a few series, but that doesn't necessarily make it likely that they will have that many. So I think we have to look at why a series doesn't need that many characters, rather than just saying "why not?"

In the case of Fire Emblem, or more specifically, Fire Emblem Awakening, I think a single game in a large franchise doesn't really need more than one character to represent it. It just becomes over-saturation from that one game, I think. And in my opinion, I think we only really need one character to fully represent Awakening and bring a unique fighting style, but that's a different topic.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I'm not necessarily saying we need to pull more than we need out of Awakening to fulfill a satisfactory assortment of 4 FE characters. Part of me wanders about your camp that it would be oversaturating. But then again, Pokémon can somehow get away with this and certain character merits could justify the means. When I call for a 4th slot, I think it would be good for a character who is synonymous acorss the whole FE series instead of one canon or a specific game (e.g., Anna, Tiki (RIP).

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

If Fire Emblem gets 3 reps. Then I want 3 Donkey Kong reps... sooo yeah, I fail to see the problem.
Now I'm just trying to crack my head thinking of a convincing moveset for Chrom that is different enough from Marth and Ike. Things like another duo character with Lucina/Tactician or making him use bows or lances sounds just silly to me. And I bet Sakurai will end up pulling up a movest that will make me think "I could have never thought that!".

 

[IronFish]

If Fire Emblem gets 3 reps. Then I want 3 Donkey Kong reps... sooo yeah, I fail to see the problem.
Now I'm just trying to crack my head thinking of a convincing moveset for Chrom that is different enough from Marth and Ike. Things like another duo character with Lucina/Tactician or making him use bows or lances sounds just silly to me. And I bet Sakurai will end up pulling up a movest that will make me think "I could have never thought that!".

That is if he is in the game.

 

[Minato Arisato]

If Fire Emblem gets 3 reps. Then I want 3 Donkey Kong reps... sooo yeah, I fail to see the problem.
Now I'm just trying to crack my head thinking of a convincing moveset for Chrom that is different enough from Marth and Ike. Things like another duo character with Lucina/Tactician or making him use bows or lances sounds just silly to me. And I bet Sakurai will end up pulling up a movest that will make me think "I could have never thought that!".

He did that with Rosalina, so...you're probably not too far off the mark.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

So yeah, I've seen an embarrassingly large amount of people thinking that Ike being confirmed deconfirms Chrom...this is the exact opposite problem that I thought was going to happen.

Honestly though, how is that surprising after the number of idiots who have declared Mewtwo deconfirmed because of Greninja and/or Lucario, and the number of people who previously Ike would be replaced by Chrom? People will freak out and cry clone/redundant/whatever at the sight of any two characters that vaguely resemble each other.

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

Personally, I designed my moveset to differentiate Chrom in style and tactics and I totally expect Sakurai and his designers to go a similar route.

He did that with Rosalina, so...you're probably not too far off the mark.

Am I the only one who didn't think of Rosalina as a straight-up Peach clone before she was confirmed?

 

[Banjodorf]

Personally, I designed my moveset to differentiate Chrom in style and tactics and I totally expect Sakurai and his designers to go a similar route.


Am I the only one who didn't think of Rosalina as a straight-up Peach clone before she was confirmed?

Frankly, her being my favorite Mario character and best waifu nonwithstanding, I didn't really think of her at all in terms of Smash. In retrospect, she does seem like a good candidate, especially compared to some others, but, y'know, hindsight and all that.

I maintain hope that Sakurai can do the same with Chrom, especially since he can't be "just another Ike".

Besides, I'm even more adamant now that Sakurai wouldn't add him just to take another character's stuff, and he won't add him if he doesn't bring anything new to the table. People don't give him enough credit in the right places sometimes. He's really sticking to his "only adding very unique newcomers" mantra this time, or at least seems to be.

 

[Minato Arisato]

Personally, I designed my moveset to differentiate Chrom in style and tactics and I totally expect Sakurai and his designers to go a similar route.


Am I the only one who didn't think of Rosalina as a straight-up Peach clone before she was confirmed?

I wasn't speculating at that point in time, so...

Also, I love your avatar.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Glad you guys are handling Ike's reveal with hype and hope.

 

[Luigi#1]

To me this slightly decreases Chrom's chance. Not too much, but just kinda. It's a bit hard to see Fire Emblem get 3 reps, but eh.

 

[Bladeviper]

Chrom can still have a unique moveset due do some of the mechanics in awakening that Sakurai could use. With the way you can switch classes in awakening they could always just have a moveset based off of some of the classes chrom could be and if they did that he could use all three weapon types or even magic.

Edit: Also it kinda sucks that they got rid of transformations cause thats another way he could have been unique from the other fire emblem characters

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Assuming the Gematsu leak is correct, I guess we could see Ike, Marth and Chrom as the trio or FE characters in Smash 4. Maybe even Roy (at least as DLC).

 

[Luigi#1]

Assuming the Gematsu leak is correct, I guess we could see Ike, Marth and Chrom as the trio or FE characters in Smash 4. Maybe even Roy (at least as DLC).

Okay, 4 reps? Fire Emblem? Absolutely not. I cannot see Fire Emblem get 4 reps. At all. Or, until we get 4 DK reps, 5 Kirby reps, 5 Zelda reps that's guarantied at this point, and 3 Metroid reps [which might happen as the Ridley thing is weird.]

 

[Opossum]

To me this slightly decreases Chrom's chance. Not too much, but just kinda. It's a bit hard to see Fire Emblem get 3 reps, but eh.

It was going to get this amount in Brawl if time constraints weren't an issue.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I said this in the official character thread so I'll say it here:

All Chrom has going against him is blue hair and a sword. You got yourself a character with a high chance of getting in.

 

[False Sense]

I said this in the official character thread so I'll say it here:

All Chrom has going against him is blue hair, a sword, and move set potential. You got yourself a character with a high chance of getting in.

Your original statement was slightly inaccurate.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Your original statement was slightly inaccurate.

Go on.

 

[False Sense]

Go on.

Well, it's quite simple, really. The vast majority of Chrom's signature abilities are already used by one of Marth or Ike, leaving Chrom very little left to use to make a fully unique move set out of, especially compared to the other two Fire Emblem characters. This issue is made more difficult due to Marth and Ike already using polar opposite play-styles; Marth is quick and focuses more on combos, while Ike is a heavy powerhouse. So Chrom is left with little source material that would be unique to him, and would be forced into some kind of middle-of-the-road playstyle between Marth and Ike. That's not a very ideal situation. Now, I do believe Chrom can be made unique, but doing so would be rather difficult. To me, I find it unnecessary to add in a character that would be struggling to differentiate himself from the other representatives of his series, especially if there are other viable alternatives.

 

[Spinosaurus]

What you'd be saying is right if you want to limit this to strictly to his Fire Emblem abilities, but if you can expand it to general swordfighting skills, I feel like there's a lot you could pull. To me, Marth and Ike are really the only true sword users (Link is very basic in his swordplay and his most notable attacks are his weapons), so it's not hard to pull from a material that is pretty diverse. That's what they did with Lil Mac.

Plus there's the shield, I guess. And you could even give him lances if you want, make him a great lord.

 

[Leafeon523]

Just wanted to drop by and say I fully support Chrom. I'm really liking his character more after replaying Awakening. (well, I like everyone more, except Robin) Literally the only argument against Chrom I ever hear (Not including the whining about his hair color) is "Oh noes he is not unique!". Yet its apparent none of these people have read the movesets available on this thread.

 

[False Sense]

Just wanted to drop by and say I fully support Chrom. I'm really liking his character more after replaying Awakening. (well, I like everyone more, except Robin) Literally the only argument against Chrom I ever hear (Not including the whining about his hair color) is "Oh noes he is not unique!". Yet its apparent none of these people have read the movesets available on this thread.

I have read those move sets, actually. I think they're unique, yes, but not likely.

 

[andimidna]

I'm not necessarily saying we need to pull more than we need out of Awakening to fulfill a satisfactory assortment of 4 FE characters. Part of me wanders about your camp that it would be oversaturating. But then again, Pokémon can somehow get away with this and certain character merits could justify the means. When I call for a 4th slot, I think it would be good for a character who is synonymous acorss the whole FE series instead of one canon or a specific game (e.g., Anna, Tiki (RIP).

That's how I have my FE characters set up currently on my roster (Marth, Ike, Chrom, Anna)
(And Tiki used to be in Anna's spot)
(When she got deconfirmed I put Robin there, and only switched him/her out for Anna yesterday)

Am I the only one who didn't think of Rosalina as a straight-up Peach clone before she was confirmed?

No, and I'm shocked to see how popular of an opinion that was. She's pretty much the most unique fighter in Smash now, and there was really no reason for her to be similar to Peach. There wasn't enough to justify it... Same hair color, wears a dress, from the same series, same gender, has the same title... so it's somewhat like Chrom being called a clone, but their weapons are different, so it's only loosely related, as Rosalina has a wand when both Chrom and the other lords all have swords. So I just roll my eyes when I see "he's a blue haired lord from Fire Emblem, obvious clone" but when people bring up actual fighting styles, weapons, and moves... there's at least something to that... something.


--------------------

I came and showed my support for Chrom a month or 2 ago, but my want for him has been going down a bit... I'm not negative about him, I've just gone down to neutral. Out of the Awakening lords, I like Lucina's character more. But for Smash, Robin and Anna seem like great picks to me. There's just so much potential... uniqueness... and being somewhat important throughout the series... It would be great representation and the final product would most likely be very interesting. I'm not going to fool myself into thinking there is a possibility that we can get both and no more swords, but the thought of it actually makes me want to go play Fire Emblem. Well, despite not wanting his inclusion 100%, I've become more confident that it's happening. There's no better way I think I can describe Chrom in Smash other than... it's happening. And I'm OK with that. I'll just cross my fingers for a 4th FE character as a secret character. As I see Chrom as almost definite for E3, and I doubt a dual reveal or post-E3 reveal of a FE newcomer. Unless it's to celebrate Anna's birthday.

(I meant to post this last night but fell asleep while typing it)

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I think when you try to make a unique moveset for Chrom, you have to consider what Sakurai said about Newcomer additions. "They have to have something that no other character in Smash can do". So compare and contrast Chrom to Marth and Ike. What makes him different? His sword and shield.

Go.

EDIT: Let me be more specific...The Exalted Falchion, and the Fire Emblem shield.

NOW go.

 

[Opossum]

I think when you try to make a unique moveset for Chrom, you have to consider what Sakurai said about Newcomer additions. "They have to have something that no other character in Smash can do". So compare and contrast Chrom to Marth and Ike. What makes him different? His sword and shield.

Go.

EDIT: Let me be more specific...The Exalted Falchion, and the Fire Emblem shield.

NOW go.

I incorporated both in a moveset a while back.

 

[Leafeon523]

I have read those move sets, actually. I think they're unique, yes, but not likely.

Yet even if they are unlikely, they show that Chrom can be unique. Who would have guessed Rosalina's moveset?

 

[False Sense]

Yet even if they are unlikely, they show that Chrom can be unique. Who would have guessed Rosalina's moveset?

True. However, as I've said, I do believe Chrom can be made unique. I just find it unlikely. So it seems we agree, correct?

 

[Sarki Soliloquy]

I think when you try to make a unique moveset for Chrom, you have to consider what Sakurai said about Newcomer additions. "They have to have something that no other character in Smash can do". So compare and contrast Chrom to Marth and Ike. What makes him different? His sword and shield.

Go.

EDIT: Let me be more specific...The Exalted Falchion, and the Fire Emblem shield.

NOW go.

Would my counter count for the shield? If not, I can always design a mechanic around it.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I still don't see what makes Chrom's use of the Fire Emblem so special that Sakurai would feel the need to incorporate it into Chrom's moveset. Correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of the story, doesn't the Fire Emblem just act as an aesthetic gimmick that Chrom sometimes holds once he promotes? Contrast that with Marth's games, where the Emblem (and all 5 spheres) are items that can be held and affect gameplay(the shield allows Marth to open chests, for example). I'm not really seeing what makes it so important to Chrom that he'd need it incorporated into his Smash moveset.

 

[Hong]

If we get a shield-using newcomer, I would imagine it would be Palutena, who I have far and above more confidence that she will appear in comparison.

Who ever does appear, I hope we get an actual shield user this time. And don't say Link. Link's shield basically functions as a hood ornament that occasionally absorbs shots if you are doing basically nothing with the character at the time. A real shame, because the shield is one of the greatest weapons of all time, up there with the bow for the most influential arms prior to the gunpowder era.

 

[False Sense]

I still don't see what makes Chrom's use of the Fire Emblem so special that Sakurai would feel the need to incorporate it into Chrom's moveset. Correct me if I'm wrong, but outside of the story, doesn't the Fire Emblem just act as an aesthetic gimmick that Chrom sometimes holds once he promotes? Contrast that with Marth's games, where the Emblem (and all 5 spheres) are items that can be held and affect gameplay(the shield allows Marth to open chests, for example). I'm not really seeing what makes it so important to Chrom that he'd need it incorporated into his Smash moveset.

It's for reasons like this that I find some of the more unique ideas for Chrom to be less than likely.

 

[Snagrio]

Unfortunately Chrom may get in regardless of how unique his playstyle is. Look at Greninja, some of his moves are copy/pasted from other movesets like Pikachu's Quick Attack and Mega Man's Mega Buster (albeit with different properties) plus his Final Smash also looks very similar to Ike's.

Now I'm not saying that Chrom will be utterly boring and unoriginal, but the fact that many say he won't get it due to no uniqueness doesn't actually hold water due to what we've already seen on the newcomer front.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

In the event that Chrom is confirmed, this thread title should be changed to "Anything Can Change! The Rightful King is Chroming to Smash 4 Wii U/3DS!"

 

[Minato Arisato]

In the event that Chrom is confirimed, this threa title should be changed to "Anything Can Change! The Rightful King is Chroming to Smash 4 Wii U/3DS!"

He'd have his own character thread by then, I'd say. Still pretty funny, though.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

In the event that Chrom is confirimed, this threa title should be changed to "Anything Can Change! The Rightful King is Chroming to Smash 4 Wii U/3DS!"

Everything is Chrom in the future Smash!

 

[GM_3826]

Look, I'm sorry, I'm trying to be a lurker. But you have been arguing for two pages, and not one of you have brought up the "Pair Up" feature and it's potential for a moveset. Listen, I realize this may lead to some backlash since "That makes so much sense for Robin!" You know, if you didn't just outright forget. Robin definitely seems like the better choice, especially since they have much more story importance than Chrom, but the problem is, he has 6 possible builds. That could create well too much variation if we expect that Robin would be like the Villager or Wii Fit Trainer. Chrom definitely seems a bit more sensible because of that.
Now, let's look at a possible moveset based around this feature. Not going to discuss any standard hits or throws, because obviously those would use swords and Chrom's brute strength..
Neutral Special: Marth
Marth/

Spoiler

Lucina

appears in their mask and coordinate a sword attack.
Up B and Aerials - Sumia
Sumia carries Chrom off on her pegasus like in this scene. Sumia holds out her lance during it, so it deals damage like a lance would.
Side B - Sully
Sully carries Chrom and plunges her lance in the direction Chrom is facing. That's TWO attacks that don't use swords.
Down B - Frederick
Frederick blocks any attacks that might hit Chrom, serving as a sponge to help avoid damage.
Smash Attacks: All involving Vaike and his freakishly large axe.
Tilts: All involving Gaius, who can easily pull off such tilts given the unusual manner he holds his sword in.
Final Smash: The Sheperds
In what is probably the most continuity-laden attack ever, all of the must recruit Sheperds appear and assault the foes... With one caveat.
The interesting thing about this is that one could assume the other characters would have hitboxes. Also, one can assume that permanent death, being such a big part of the Fire Emblem series, would appear somehow, right?
The thing is, if any of the Sheperds are damaged enough, they die and the attack is replaced with the A attack equivalent. Even if we're talking about the Final Smash, where tons of Sheperds appear. Even if Chrom dies. Still unusable.
That makes things unique enough, and doesn't just represent Fire Emblem: Awakening. It represents the series in general, unless we're talking Anna, who would be even better for such a role. It's so unique that it's possible Sakurai really could implement it, especially if he wanted to make up for the fact that Fire Emblem has gotten the worst representation out of any series. (Which he already seems to want to do, as Arena Ferox is actually from Fire Emblem.) This may be impractical: You're allowed to say if it is. But, it seems like the best idea.
Any arguments?

 

[Oblivion129]

Look, I'm sorry, I'm trying to be a lurker. But you have been arguing for two pages, and not one of you have brought up the "Pair Up" feature and it's potential for a moveset. Listen, I realize this may lead to some backlash since "That makes so much sense for Robin!" You know, if you didn't just outright forget. Robin definitely seems like the better choice, especially since they have much more story importance than Chrom, but the problem is, he has 6 possible builds. That could create well too much variation if we expect that Robin would be like the Villager or Wii Fit Trainer. Chrom definitely seems a bit more sensible because of that.
Now, let's look at a possible moveset based around this feature. Not going to discuss any standard hits or throws, because obviously those would use swords and Chrom's brute strength..
Neutral Special: Marth
Marth/

Spoiler

Lucina

appears in their mask and coordinate a sword attack.
Up B and Aerials - Sumia
Sumia carries Chrom off on her pegasus like in this scene. Sumia holds out her lance during it, so it deals damage like a lance would.
Side B - Sully
Sully carries Chrom and plunges her lance in the direction Chrom is facing. That's TWO attacks that don't use swords.
Down B - Frederick
Frederick blocks any attacks that might hit Chrom, serving as a sponge to help avoid damage.
Smash Attacks: All involving Vaike and his freakishly large axe.
Tilts: All involving Gaius, who can easily pull off such tilts given the unusual manner he holds his sword in.
Final Smash: The Sheperds
In what is probably the most continuity-laden attack ever, all of the must recruit Sheperds appear and assault the foes... With one caveat.
The interesting thing about this is that one could assume the other characters would have hitboxes. Also, one can assume that permanent death, being such a big part of the Fire Emblem series, would appear somehow, right?
The thing is, if any of the Sheperds are damaged enough, they die and the attack is replaced with the A attack equivalent. Even if we're talking about the Final Smash, where tons of Sheperds appear. Even if Chrom dies. Still unusable.
That makes things unique enough, and doesn't just represent Fire Emblem: Awakening. It represents the series in general, unless we're talking Anna, who would be even better for such a role. It's so unique that it's possible Sakurai really could implement it, especially if he wanted to make up for the fact that Fire Emblem has gotten the worst representation out of any series. (Which he already seems to want to do, as Arena Ferox is actually from Fire Emblem.) This may be impractical: You're allowed to say if it is. But, it seems like the best idea.
Any arguments?

It has been discussed before but the amount of development time it would take to make HD models of all those characters would be unnecessary. I think having one summon like Zelda has would be enough.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

It's actually kinda interesting how many people are decalring Chrom disconfirmed/very unlikely just because of Ike and assumes that he won't be in due to diversity.

 

[Morian]

It's actually kinda interesting how many people are decalring Chrom disconfirmed/very unlikely just because of Ike and assumes that he won't be in due to diversity.

The same with Dixie and every sword user.

 

[GM_3826]

...I'm just going to support Chrom as part of a tag team with Robin. It's a good way to represent the character without overdosing in models and still make everything unique.