Any good, reliable grab combos that don't use the uair?

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

My friends keep SDI:ing the first hit of the Uair about 50% of the time so it's quite unreliable. I try to use bair or nair sometimes instead but usually (especially if they're at low percent) I can't follow that up with anything. Any help?
EDIT: I'm mainly talking about grab combos against floaties and semi floaties (like peach and marth). (cuz other grab combos [like chaingrabs or uthrow->usmash/utilt] usually work against the other characters)

 

[Nocturnalist]

that really depends on what character you playing?

 

[Skylord]

Or you can just hit them with only the second hit of the Uair.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Or you can just hit them with only the second hit of the Uair.

It's near impossible to intentionally hit with only one of the hits, atleast for me. If you know a reliable way to do so id like to know

 

[ZoSo]

Bair them in whichever direction you think they'll try to SDI. This will cause them to DI terribly and set them up for edge-guarding, if not kill them outright.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

True, I do uthrow bair a bit, but it doesnt work at low %

 

[Grunt]

Usually i can just get Uair off, but sometimes i go for Bair, especially against Marth.

 

[CanISmash]

i've been thinking about this but im not technical enough e.g. i need to practice to pull it off. in the same sense you can shine b-air you can shine any aerial right?

could you shine u-air? negating the sdi since it would be wasted on the shine. iono just me trying to think of stuff.

 

[Proud_Smash_N00b]

I prefer Uthrow-Bair over Uthrow-Uair. It's easier to pull off.
Or when vs a Fastfaller at a low %, do a chaingrab and try to get a Utilt or Usmash in there

 

[Lovage 805]

shine uair is near impossible with standard di, they have to di very specifically into it

 

[RaynEX]

On another FFaller like Fox/Falco/Falcon:

w/ no d.i.: Run in a direction, then run back towards them and nair to re-grab or nair to usmash (if they d.i. into it). If they d.i. the nair properly you can techchase to re-grab or usmash if they miss the tech.

w/ full d.i. either direction: You can nair even easily now, and juggle them if they d.i. into it. If they d.i. away its the same as the above situation.

But this is just random ****, you can still utilt/usmash and stuff.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I don't think shine uair is possible at all with fox, unless they AR SDI >.>

 

[RaynEX]

OR if they're a lvl 9 cpu.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Maybe you should just u-air anyway.

Are you sure it's not you just ****ing up the u-air?

Forward told me that u-throw->u-air is like, the most important thing for the Fox v. Marth matchup.

Granted, Marth isn't THE only floaty character, but I'm sure the concept still applies.

Oh yeah, sometimes, you can like, u-throw, do a fullhop n-air to u-tilt (the n-air has to be a weak hit). I think I've seen PC do it a few times. You can techchase a few d-throws sometimes, too. If you u-throw someone onto a platform, you can jump up, (neutral) waveland on the platform, and then techchase them with a d-smash/f-smash/grab/shield. Well, shield if you think they're going to get-up attack.

 

[Lovage 805]

i've pulled shine uair off on lv.1's
and i've done it on people, but only the first hit hit, not the second

and of course, its ****ing stupid and theres no point just an interesting thing to try

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Maybe you should just u-air anyway.

Are you sure it's not you just ****ing up the u-air?

Forward told me that u-throw->u-air is like, the most important thing for the Fox v. Marth matchup.

Granted, Marth isn't THE only floaty character, but I'm sure the concept still applies.

Oh yeah, sometimes, you can like, u-throw, do a fullhop n-air to u-tilt (the n-air has to be a weak hit). I think I've seen PC do it a few times. You can techchase a few d-throws sometimes, too. If you u-throw someone onto a platform, you can jump up, (neutral) waveland on the platform, and then techchase them with a d-smash/f-smash/grab/shield. Well, shield if you think they're going to get-up attack.

I'm 100% sure i'm not ****ing up the uair, since I'm timing it the same way every time, and the times that the second hit doesnt connect I see them "teleporting" in the direction they SDI'd as I heard them smash the control stick.
I mean, it's still very good and it usually works (okay I lied about my friends SDI:ing half of the time to get peoples attention, its not that often >.>) but it's a fact that SDI makes this combo impossible, and I want something more reliable. It's really gay when you work real hard to get one grab in and when you finally do, you do like 10% damage.

 

[Skylord]

It's near impossible to intentionally hit with only one of the hits, atleast for me. If you know a reliable way to do so id like to know

If your opponents can consistently SDI out of the Uair, then I think your best shot is to only hit with the second hit of it... I have to admit it's very hard for me to time if right, but then again, at first connecting knees or dairs with Falcon also seemed nearly impossible. I'm guessing it's just a matter of practice.

 

[ArcNatural]

Bair or nair is usually the best option when they can smash DI the upthrow pretty well. At low percentages (like 0-10% on Marth) you can Upthrow bair to uptilt. This is usually good because it's fairly easy to just bair then dash dance another grab in to enable variety.

 

[Falcinho]

You can also DJ --> ff uair
Then you'll only hit with the second hit if you time it right

Just mix it up with the other options that were already mentioned

 

[RaynEX]

^ or you can not waste your double jump and try something safer.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

Or you can mix up what you do to keep your opponent guessing.

 

[Falcinho]

I don't say you only have to spam Dj-->ff uair and it will work every time.
It's just a possibility to throw off their timing.

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

I know. I was responding to RaynEX' post.

 

[Falcinho]

Me too ^^

tenuairs

 

[takieddine]

Just time your upair so it hits with the second hit, nothing they can do about that...

 

[_kSo_]

yea uh, i'm assuming you are talking about marth

in which case just bair or nair into usmash/uair

all in all, just mix it up to mess up your opponent.

 

[RaynEX]

Alright guys...here is the ultimate stragety.

You pick Fox...



...


.....


then you quit and pick Sheik.

ggz.

 

[Tee ay eye]

Alright guys...here is the ultimate stragety.

You pick Fox...



...


.....


then you quit and pick Sheik.

ggz.

So you can counterpick and make a comeback to win the set after your Sheik gets owned, right?

 

[Tero.]

Double jump above them and then uair fastfall ...
thats what i do against someone who does sdi on my uairs.

 

[Shai Hulud]

On platform stages against a lot of characters you can do a nair => dash on platform => JC usmash. This will only work if the uthrow doesn't send them too high to FJ nair. Although you can also DJ nair => fast fall => dash JC usmash sometimes. It really depends on the character and the damage they're at.

Tero, that's a bad idea because they will not be in stun long enough to guarantee a hit. You will most likely get hit yourself if you try to DJ past them and fast fall uair.

 

[Tero.]

Tero, that's a bad idea because they will not be in stun long enough to guarantee a hit. You will most likely get hit yourself if you try to DJ past them and fast fall uair.

Yeah i forgot to mention that i only do that if i want to kill somebody with uair, its not good for comboing at low percentages. And im sure its not a bad idea since it works most of the time for me and there are a few very good european players using this too.
I cant remember that ive been punished once for using it, yeah it may not work 100% of the time, but its worth a try if your opponent is good at sdi.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Yeah i forgot to mention that i only do that if i want to kill somebody with uair, its not good for comboing at low percentages. And im sure its not a bad idea since it works most of the time for me and there are a few very good european players using this too.
I cant remember that ive been punished once for using it, yeah it may not work 100% of the time, but its worth a try if your opponent is good at sdi.

Yeah if you're using it for a kill move you should at least trade hits I suppose.

 

[Tero.]

Yeah if you're using it for a kill move you should at least trade hits I suppose.

Thats what i meant to say, sorry if it wasnt clear enough.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Thanks for all the advice guys, I need to use the bair and nair more.
Btw I cant beleive anyone mentioned uthrow->dair->regrab->dthrow techchase on platform stages. it's ****
And I've been messing around with hitting with only the first hit of the uair. It's almost impossible directly out of a uthrow unless you use the technique tero mentioned... But if you do one uair (or whatever else with decent amounts of hitstun, really), then space and time another fulljump uair perfectly so the character youre beating up falls into the second hit of the uair it can work.
The reason this wont work directly from the uthrow is because your opponent needs to be falling down towards you as you do this, and the uthrow doesn't have enough hitstun for them to still be in hitstun on their way down (unless its fast faller). this also means it wont really work on characters that are to floaty (it can work against marth though, but probably not peach)

 

[Shai Hulud]

some characters can hit you before the grab comes out and all characters can smash DI out of range pretty easily. In fact since you can smash DI every hit of the dair if you just hold a direction you'll auto smash DI all the hits.

But it can work sometimes.

 

[Killress]

Wave(or Drill)shine->U-smash