yoshiherder
Smash Cadet
And Wolf is Andross' pawn? Where'd you dig that crap up? WRONG. 
-
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Andross for Brawl! Starfox needs a cool enemy
- Thread starter Bowserlick
- Start date
100links
Smash Ace
no hes smarter than a lightbulb and wolf is the brick therefore brick smashes the lightbulb making the brick smarter
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
Nah. Most Wolf movesets consists of moves and specials that are stronger, slowerversions of Fox's movesets. Not original, we don't need another similar space animal with guns and reflectors. Post your moveset or send me a link.
Yoshiherder's moveset is disgustingly good...
PS, the answer to my question was WOLF. When it shows Fox, Samus, and C. Falcon with their bitter rivals, it shows Fox and Wolf clashing arwings and wolfens, not Fox shooting a giant hand.
And you say Foxes and Wolfs are too much the same? Sure, they're both canine, but they're completely different.
If you want to complain, complain about Mario, Luigi, C. Falcon, Samus, Ice Climbers, Pit, Wario, Snake, etc... THEY'RE ALL HUMAN! Yet they all have their own moveset-- except for those that have/are clones.
...Zelda, Link, Marth, Roy...
...Young Link, Gannon, Ness...
Yeah, I don't see what you're whining about.
PS, the answer to my question was WOLF. When it shows Fox, Samus, and C. Falcon with their bitter rivals, it shows Fox and Wolf clashing arwings and wolfens, not Fox shooting a giant hand.
And you say Foxes and Wolfs are too much the same? Sure, they're both canine, but they're completely different.
If you want to complain, complain about Mario, Luigi, C. Falcon, Samus, Ice Climbers, Pit, Wario, Snake, etc... THEY'RE ALL HUMAN! Yet they all have their own moveset-- except for those that have/are clones.
...Zelda, Link, Marth, Roy...
...Young Link, Gannon, Ness...
Yeah, I don't see what you're whining about.
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
I have to see the moveset and then judge.
Andross has more trophies then Wolf.
The Human argument doesn't work. I am not saying they are going to be similar just because they are both canines. It is due to several reasons.
1. Same body shape
2. Leaders of teams (one named Star Fox, one Star Wolf) that fly similar spaceships
3. Wolf was created as an evil rival Fox
4. They use the same weapons
The fact that like look similar (both canines) just makes them both less unique.
Inferno_blaze
Smash Lord
Well I can see your thread is still going strong with everyone but you against him, sorry but it's just not gonna happen, it's not at all practical or popular, nice to see that you're defending your choices though.
SupaSmashBrotha
Smash Ace
So what? A pokeball has more trophies than Wolf. Does that mean it should be its own seperate character? No, the fact is Wolf>Andross. Nuff said.Bowserlick said:
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
That was a response to the guy who said that wolf was in the intro and andross was not. I was making a point that what he said had no bearing.
Black Metal
Smash Cadet
I posted this in the early days of this argument. Andross is lame and Bowserlick knows it too. I can't believe you're still going on about this. What are you obsessed with Giant Monkey Heads? What a
you should be :embarrass. I, however, am doing this. bijoukaiba
Smash Journeyman
Lol to Black Metal, and doth I quote from my SSBM fiction "Swordplay":
"Space. It is a virtually empty void of darkness. The occasional planetary system, shimmering stars, space ships, and floating monkey heads. This is the Lylat system."
-- "Swordplay", Chapter 1: This Strange New World We're In
While I admit I admire your determination to keep Andross alive, his support is failing, and practically the only other people here are against this idea.
It won't be long until McFox arrives...
But like I said above, you showed excellent determination to keep him alive and were quite creative to invent a moveset for the bad*** monkey. Just like Fox and Captain Falcon, nobody really knows anything about Andross so it must've taken some thought for these moves to be created.
"Space. It is a virtually empty void of darkness. The occasional planetary system, shimmering stars, space ships, and floating monkey heads. This is the Lylat system."
-- "Swordplay", Chapter 1: This Strange New World We're In
While I admit I admire your determination to keep Andross alive, his support is failing, and practically the only other people here are against this idea.
It won't be long until McFox arrives...
But like I said above, you showed excellent determination to keep him alive and were quite creative to invent a moveset for the bad*** monkey. Just like Fox and Captain Falcon, nobody really knows anything about Andross so it must've taken some thought for these moves to be created.
SupaSmashBrotha
Smash Ace
YOU FAIL
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
There is no need to get Bart Simpson involved. He would side with Andross anyways.
I invite others to make up some moves for a body toting Andross, either in jest or for real. You might be impressed how flavorful his movesets can be.
I invite others to make up some moves for a body toting Andross, either in jest or for real. You might be impressed how flavorful his movesets can be.
FiErCe_oNi
Smash Lord
man im gonna come up with a wolf moveset one of these days.. then you can let this thread die.
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
Alright. I am going to try a second attempt at making a Wolf moveset. I have to say it is hard making it original as well as capturing the flavor of the canine.
A: Quick jab with right fist
AA: Quick jab with right fist, followed by a hefty old left cross with fist
AAA: Quick jab with right fist, followed by a hefty old left cross with fist. Then Wolf (in one quick motion) raises his knee to chest level. His knee his bent at a right angle with the bottom of his boot facing the oppenent. He then brings the boot down in a half circle stomp which knocks the enemy away.
Toward A: Jabs outward with his knee. If A is pressed when his knee is extended, he kicks outwards for extra damage and extra range.
Down A: Wolf crouches down with both knees bent and one hand pressed against the floor. A press of A will make Wolf send a mean right hook (with his free hand) at the oppenent's legs, knocking them back.
Up A: Grabs his blaster from the holster on his boot, growls in irritation, and swats in a half circle (like DK's up A ) at the menance falling from above. Raises his boot as he does the upward pistol whip so he could quickly reholster it after he goes through the motion.
Up Smash: Wolf does a vertical split (like Ganondorf's terrible Up A). It comes out quick, but only hits oppenent's directly above Wolf. Sends Oppenent up with stun if hit squarely on the boot.
Down Smash: Wolf sends a volley of lasers down at a angle toward the Oppenent's feet. Could catch the oppenent in the laser like Ness's PK fire. Oppenent could use DI, but the more the smash is charged, the more lasers come out which increase the entrapment of the enemy, who dances as the ground beneath him or her is splashed with laser.
Forward Smash: ?
B: Wolf aims with his blaster. While B is being held, a thin red laser (like a sniper laser) beams out from the small scope, allowing easier aim. Just line up the red dot. Wolf cannot spam laser. But the shot has stun potential like Falco's laser. But after a shot, smoke drifts from the gun. Could only shoot again once the gun has stopped overheating.
DownB: Wolf touches a panel near his metallic, robotic eye. A pool of red light appears a small distance in front of Wolf. (Similar range and motion as Mewtwo's Down B attack. Only used on ground. If the oppenent is caught in this light, he or she is TARGETTED. Golly what does this mean? Well, this means that if Wolf is running toward the targetted oppenent his speed will increase, because his head will always be looking at the oppenent. But if you are running away from the oppenent, you will go slower then usual. Even though Wolf may be walking away from a targetted Peach, his head will be looking over his shoulder at her. Can untarget by pressing down B once more. If Wolf is hit hard enough while in this mode, his targetting mode will turn off. Could tell if Wolf is in target mode by his head movements and his robotic eye will be bright red.
All I have for now, getting tired.
A: Quick jab with right fist
AA: Quick jab with right fist, followed by a hefty old left cross with fist
AAA: Quick jab with right fist, followed by a hefty old left cross with fist. Then Wolf (in one quick motion) raises his knee to chest level. His knee his bent at a right angle with the bottom of his boot facing the oppenent. He then brings the boot down in a half circle stomp which knocks the enemy away.
Toward A: Jabs outward with his knee. If A is pressed when his knee is extended, he kicks outwards for extra damage and extra range.
Down A: Wolf crouches down with both knees bent and one hand pressed against the floor. A press of A will make Wolf send a mean right hook (with his free hand) at the oppenent's legs, knocking them back.
Up A: Grabs his blaster from the holster on his boot, growls in irritation, and swats in a half circle (like DK's up A ) at the menance falling from above. Raises his boot as he does the upward pistol whip so he could quickly reholster it after he goes through the motion.
Up Smash: Wolf does a vertical split (like Ganondorf's terrible Up A). It comes out quick, but only hits oppenent's directly above Wolf. Sends Oppenent up with stun if hit squarely on the boot.
Down Smash: Wolf sends a volley of lasers down at a angle toward the Oppenent's feet. Could catch the oppenent in the laser like Ness's PK fire. Oppenent could use DI, but the more the smash is charged, the more lasers come out which increase the entrapment of the enemy, who dances as the ground beneath him or her is splashed with laser.
Forward Smash: ?
B: Wolf aims with his blaster. While B is being held, a thin red laser (like a sniper laser) beams out from the small scope, allowing easier aim. Just line up the red dot. Wolf cannot spam laser. But the shot has stun potential like Falco's laser. But after a shot, smoke drifts from the gun. Could only shoot again once the gun has stopped overheating.
DownB: Wolf touches a panel near his metallic, robotic eye. A pool of red light appears a small distance in front of Wolf. (Similar range and motion as Mewtwo's Down B attack. Only used on ground. If the oppenent is caught in this light, he or she is TARGETTED. Golly what does this mean? Well, this means that if Wolf is running toward the targetted oppenent his speed will increase, because his head will always be looking at the oppenent. But if you are running away from the oppenent, you will go slower then usual. Even though Wolf may be walking away from a targetted Peach, his head will be looking over his shoulder at her. Can untarget by pressing down B once more. If Wolf is hit hard enough while in this mode, his targetting mode will turn off. Could tell if Wolf is in target mode by his head movements and his robotic eye will be bright red.
All I have for now, getting tired.
saberhof
Smash Master
[Offtopic]You gotta give this guy some points hes been fighting for andross for like 295 posts and 20 pages of insults against andross, even i couldnt last that long.i miself dont like Andross but this has just got to be like idk.thats all i gotta say, bye
*EDIT* now that i look at my post, i do not have a point, dontk now why. just bored..
*EDIT* now that i look at my post, i do not have a point, dontk now why. just bored..100links
Smash Ace
i agree with him....that guy has ALOT of patience[Offtopic]You gotta give this guy some points hes been fighting for andross for like 295 posts and 20 pages of insults against andross, even i couldnt last that long.i miself dont like Andross but this has just got to be like idk.thats all i gotta say, bye
(or whatever >.<)Boricua_Bob
Smash Cadet
Stryks
Smash Hero
Lol hhahahahhaha the above post kicks *** hahaha, and yeah saber has a point... i guess the guy has taken flame after flame after flame, he deserves some credit for that, but Andross STILL wont be in brawl...
100links
Smash Ace
LOL
Dude, in the first game he was in he was A BRICK!
yoshiherder
Smash Cadet
Wolf is not a clone. :| My moveset owns.
Wolf O'Donnell is NOT a Fox clone.- A rant essay by YoshiRancher
I have shown movesets and evidence MANY times, always being in the right and proving that Wolf has enormous potential to be far more than a Fox clone. Still, I get the SAME argument, every time. "Wolf would be a Fox clone." My reasoning is ignored, as are my movesets. Therefore, I have decided to make a special essay, which will also be featured in my 2 favorite macros.
Let's start w/ the basics, shall we? Species: Wolf is well, a wolf, whose anatomy is more similar to that of the domesticated dog. Fox is also HIS namesake, whose anatomy is more similar to a cat, or a dog/cat hybrid.(I still say cat more than dog). There is a fundamental difference. The species. Think about this... There is ONE main species in Melee: Humans. Look at how diverse they are. We have dark magic freaks to bomb-happy elf-wannabes to crazy samurais w/ flaming swords to bounty hunters in power suits to plumbers tossing fire to ladies floating w/ a dress and gardening. Now tell me, if ONE species can do SO much and be SO different, surely TWO DIFFERENT species can be at LEAST that diverse? Heck, the only thing denied to Wolf that is found in SSBM is magic, essentially. He actually wields an energy dagger, as well.
Next, some physical differences. Wolf is 6'1'', while Fox is 5'8''. Even height can make a difference. Tall characters probably won't use the same kind of sweeps as shorter ones. Wolf weighs 165 pounds, while Fox is only 140. Weight is also a factor. This can affect fall speed, and traction, both of which, as you know, are quite the factor as far as tiers are concerned.
Wolf is possessed of a cyborg eye. To my knowledge, the eye may have enhancements over just optical funtion. Infrared or X-ray are possibilities, which could also factor into Wolf's abilities. Wolf wears an armored jerkin, while Fox wears a jumpsuit, or his flight jacket. The armor is another key difference, as Wolf might be slower, but have damage resistances.
Next, personalities. As you probably know, Wolf is a darker sort... and his life is probably the reason, as I explain later. Fox is a mercenary, but he's, of course, the hero, and of a lighter alignment. Wolf uses trickery, cunning, illusions, relentlessness and brutality in his dialogue, and in his fights. Fox mainly relies on his speed, as his nature doesn't support trickery. Wolf, although his true species should not be, is far more clever than Fox. This is another major difference, which also factors into movesets.
I'll go to a new topic: Other clones. I get these arguments often. So, let me say the following. Ganondorf is the King of Darkness, and wields the Triforce of Power. Using dark magic, levitation, and even anatomatical transmuting, Ganondorf is a power to be feared and reckoned with. Captain Falcon is a bounty hunter who drives a hovercraft. His moves are based on his bounty hunting and fire. He is muscular, and quick, while Ganondorf is slow. They share almost nothing. Clone material? Far from it. But look how they ended up. As clones. You can't be certain where the clones will occur, now can you?
Now think about Mario and Luigi. Twins, and born only minutes from each other. Raised by the same parents the same way. Both are fire-tossing plumbers with an odd obsession for mushrooms. The are brothers, and far closer to identical. Clone material? Yes. Clones? No. Wow, once again I've proven that clones' placement is not certain.
Another example is found w/ Kirby and Jigglypuff. Both are pink puff balls, both are about the same height and weight, etc. Yet somehow they ended up w/ ENTIRELY different movesets. I rest my case.
Another rather stupid argument I get is "Wolf isn't major, he doesn't even have a backstory." You don't know how wrong you are. With help from his games and the veterans of the SF board, I have determined the following, so shut up and read.
Wolf was raised in a fairly happy environment, and lived on Corneria. Wolf was a close friend of James McCloud, the father of Fox McCloud. Eventually, Wolf and James had a dispute, and Wolf, convinced that he was right, warned James not to go through with his plan. James did, and it cost him his life. Wolf was furious, but decided to keep an eye on James' son, Fox. Fox and Wolf were FRIENDS. From what we can tell, Fox made a BIG mistake, which cost Wolf his eye, and many of his possessions other than the eye. Wolf was furious, and couldn't believe Fox would do such a thing. In the war Andross currently waged, it appears that both Fox's and Wolf's parents perished. In Androsses' next assault, Wolf joined up to support himself, and his friend, Leon, who may have also attended the Academy. Pigma was hired, and Andrew assigned by Andross. After his dogfight with Fox, Wolf realized that he could not bring himself to kill his one-time friend, and vowed to watch out for him instead. Now, getting over a vendetta, forgiving, and especially vowing protection takes IMMENSE inner strength, and I doubt that I could do the same. In SFA, Fox attacked Wolf's home base in an ill-advised mission, assuming Pigma was still with Wolf. Pigma had been kicked out long ago, and the attack simply killed many of Wolf's soldiers and vessels. Wolf was not thrilled, and attacked Fox, attempting to drive him from the system. Wolf did not succeed, however.(Dang AI, I hate it). Wolf, however, knew that something was up, and followed Fox afterward. He was right to do so. He saved Fox from certain death on a wayward mission to Corneria where Fox managed to get himself surrounded by powerful aparoids. Wolf helped Fox escape. Wolf and his team also soon after assist Fox in protecting a space station developing a program to counter the aparoids. Wolf even makes the ultimate sacrifice in the final run against the aparoid queen so Team StarFox can deliver the program. Wolf's wingmen, Leon and Panther, were willing to die right alongside him, which to me suggests a strong, intelligent, fair leader. It was not the end, however. Wolf and his team survive their diversion, and actually appear in StarFox Command. The Wolf lives on. Wolf is fiercy loyal, and protective of those he's close to. He doesn't care what the critics say, and will do anything for a cause he supports. He's confident and a good leader. In this I find a bond to Wolf through personality... and almost consider him a brother. Now THAT is a very deep story, and a dynamic character. As you can see, he's nowhere near "unimportant."
I'll address another point. This is for those of you who have read the movesets and the essay and still remain stubbornly unyielding. So you think Wolf will be a clone. So? Is that necessarily a bad thing? No. If he's a clone, guess where he'll be? Top Tier. Right along side his franchise siblings. He'll be popular, and totally awesome. So to be honest, I might PREFER Wolf as a clone.
Wolf is a dark character from an underrepresented franchise, and he BELONGS in Brawl. His appearance there would forever ensure his ultimate glory.
Wolf O'Donnell - By YoshiRancher.
Stats:
Movement Speed: ****(A little slower than Marth)
Attack Speed: ****( A little slower than Falco)
Weight: ***(? Not sure. W/ armor and equipment, slightly heavier than Mario, but lighter than Link.)
Jumping: ***(~60-70% height of highest jumper)
Damage Resistance: Slight physical. He is wearing armor, and if the armor is going to slow him down, there should be a reason for wearing it.
Addendum: I will add to this later.(extra notes)
Damage: ***.5 (3.5) (Wolf is meant to be a fair amount stronger than Fox)
Advantage: Fair speed, high speed attacks, good traction, almost a fastfaller.
Disadvantage: Good traction and almost a fastfaller can be disadvantages.
A - Punch.
A,A,A - Punch, elbow, knee.
Right A - Elbow
Running A - Slide tackle.
Smash A: Punch/elbow alternation.
Smash Right - Heavy Kick.
Smash Up - Bazooka bludgeon.(Sounds stupid, but can you imagine getting beaten by a bazooka? Ouch)
Alt Smash up: Flip. Does a back flip. First hit is the first foot, which stuns and knocks up slightly. The second foot does less of both than the first, and the tail is the heavy blow, w/ significant knockback. A three-hit combo. Think of Link's if you can't picture it.
Smash Down - Tail swipe(mulitple spins depending on charge).
Ground:
Jump - Standard.
Double jump - Front tuck or backflip, depending on which way he's headed.
A - Punch
Forward A - elbow
Back A - tail bludgeon
Up A - Kick up.(Not like Fox's, does a flip in place to hit w/ both feet)
Down A - Tail trip. (Like Yoshi's, but not as powerful.)
B - Slug thrower. Charge move. More bullets as charge increases. If the max charge(7 secs) is reached, Wolf's hands will glow until you unleash it. The machinegun w/ be a gattling gun when fully charged, which means energized bullets. (standard do 1% per hit, energized... 3%?) Energized also have a much more significant knockback.
Up B - Missile launcher. Similair to PK thunder, you can control the trajectory. Strike yourself w/ the missile to become a flaming projectile. You can detonate the missle w/ B. The missile explodes on contact, or on attempt to block/reflect.
Alt Up B - Jet pack. Wolf himself becomes a projectile, and has temporary movement freedom. The flames are severely devastating.
Down B - Trickery. This is one of my best. Wolf counters a hit for 1.5 times the damage. The target, if close enough, is stunned(As if their shield was broken) for a time based on how far Wolf would have been sent flying by the countered blow. Stun time cannot exceed 6 seconds, and the stunned recovers upon being struck. The move blocks projectiles, but does not reflect them. Wolf stays in the countering position for ~1.5 seconds, after which there is a ~.5 sec lag time. If grabbed while in countering mode, the grab is broken and both characters slightly knocked back. Neither takes damage nor is stunned. Can be used on recovering(getting back to stage) characters. Will interrupt the recovery and knock downward at a medium rate, depending on damage. The target can still use another recovery move. Also, recovery grabs are broken, and the grabber is knocked down at twice the normal rate.
Alt Down B: Pulse Mine. Wolf sets a mine. Any character walking near it is stunned by the pulse, and then nailed by the explosion. Wolf cannot place more than 3 mines at any time. If he attempts another, there is an 85% chance of him successfully placing it, but the oldest of the 4 current mines despawns, and there is a 15% chance of Wolf bending over/crouching to place the mine, realizing he doesn't have one, and looking silly. This will cause about 1.5 secs of vulnerability.
Smash B - Homing Launcher. Just holding the control stick sends a homing shell after the nearest opponent. A smash to the control stick sends a powerful non-guided shell.
Alt side B - Grenade. Aimed like Yoshi's egg. Explodes on contact w/ character, or rolls along ground if no contact is achieved. Can be detonated w/ B. Cannot be picked up, and does not cook.
Aerials:
Neutral: Standard kick. Like Link's.
Back air: Tail Strike(Like Mewtwo's, but stronger.)
Alt Back air: Double back kick.
Foward air: Kicks in an arc foward, then hits w/ tail as second strike while spinning... Similair to Link's, but not as strong and different knockback.
Down air: Stomp(spike).
Up air: Spin kick. Does a flip. Feet and tail will have damaging effect.
Throw
Grab - Just reaches out and grabs... medium-long range. Can grab someone behind using tail(if in range.) Wolf will automatically grab a person behind if grab is used and no ppl are in front.
A - Knee to guts or elbow to face... 3% dmg.
Right - Tosses up a little, catches on knee w/ breaking force, smacks off w/ elbow and kicks foward.
Up - Tosses straight up, then nails w/ a zooker shell. Target is stunned until AFTER the shell hits, no reflecting/blocks/evading
Back - Tosses them over him, stuns w/ a tail thwack, then gives them a hefty kick to the rear.
Down - Shoves grabee into ground face down, and somersaults across his/her back, starting at the head and going all the way down, crushing the spine. Wolf then slides the person away w/ his tail to avoid recovery hits.
Dodge:
Air: Like the sidestep, but in air.
Sidestep - Creates 4-5 Wolves, but all are wraith-like and intangible. The real, colored Wolf is not among them, and comes back after the dodge.
Roll - Illusionary. Disappears, and can string up to 3 rolls(Slides, actually) in a row w/o having to reappear.
Recovery:
From fall into defensive - Handspring or roll, depending on DI.
Attack from hanging(<100%) - Wolf tornado. Like Fox's dair, only w/ more knockback and horizontal.
Attack from hanging(100%+) - Struggles, swings up w/ a punch.
Attack from lying face down - Does a flip, clearing legs over head, and damaging/knocking back anyone hit by legs. Does a tail hit after returning to a standing position to clear any "Clever" opportunists.
Attack from lying face up - Propeller kick.(Like CF)
Ground to Roll - Illusionary slide/ roll to standing.
Kirby Outfit - Grey ears, one violet eye, and the cyborg eye. Maybe the unruly center patch of white b/w ears?
Arena- Sargasso Hideout. Moving elevators, machinegun turrets, wandering robots, and henchmen.
Taunt - 1) Leans on knee opposite of direction originally facing and says" I'll take care of everything."
2) Wags finger warningly...and says "Don't mess w/ me."
3) After dealing damage, says "What's the matter? You done already?".
Shield - Standard, but violet(Like his eye)
Symbol - Probably the StarFox emblem. In the next SSB, more SW ppl should be added, and SW will have its own emblem. I'm well aware that Wolf isn't a part of SF, but I'm not going to give him his very own symbol when there are (hopefully) 3 others w/ the SF emblem.
Claps - Crosses arms and is turned away. Does not applaud.
Victory pose 1 - Dual machine gun... fires in a frenzy. "Victory is MINE!"
Victory pose 2 - Evil chuckle while tossing a grenade b/w hands
Victory pose 3 - Hands on hips or crosses arms and says "Ha, is that all you got?"
Wolf O'Donnell is NOT a Fox clone.- A rant essay by YoshiRancher
I have shown movesets and evidence MANY times, always being in the right and proving that Wolf has enormous potential to be far more than a Fox clone. Still, I get the SAME argument, every time. "Wolf would be a Fox clone." My reasoning is ignored, as are my movesets. Therefore, I have decided to make a special essay, which will also be featured in my 2 favorite macros.
Let's start w/ the basics, shall we? Species: Wolf is well, a wolf, whose anatomy is more similar to that of the domesticated dog. Fox is also HIS namesake, whose anatomy is more similar to a cat, or a dog/cat hybrid.(I still say cat more than dog). There is a fundamental difference. The species. Think about this... There is ONE main species in Melee: Humans. Look at how diverse they are. We have dark magic freaks to bomb-happy elf-wannabes to crazy samurais w/ flaming swords to bounty hunters in power suits to plumbers tossing fire to ladies floating w/ a dress and gardening. Now tell me, if ONE species can do SO much and be SO different, surely TWO DIFFERENT species can be at LEAST that diverse? Heck, the only thing denied to Wolf that is found in SSBM is magic, essentially. He actually wields an energy dagger, as well.
Next, some physical differences. Wolf is 6'1'', while Fox is 5'8''. Even height can make a difference. Tall characters probably won't use the same kind of sweeps as shorter ones. Wolf weighs 165 pounds, while Fox is only 140. Weight is also a factor. This can affect fall speed, and traction, both of which, as you know, are quite the factor as far as tiers are concerned.
Wolf is possessed of a cyborg eye. To my knowledge, the eye may have enhancements over just optical funtion. Infrared or X-ray are possibilities, which could also factor into Wolf's abilities. Wolf wears an armored jerkin, while Fox wears a jumpsuit, or his flight jacket. The armor is another key difference, as Wolf might be slower, but have damage resistances.
Next, personalities. As you probably know, Wolf is a darker sort... and his life is probably the reason, as I explain later. Fox is a mercenary, but he's, of course, the hero, and of a lighter alignment. Wolf uses trickery, cunning, illusions, relentlessness and brutality in his dialogue, and in his fights. Fox mainly relies on his speed, as his nature doesn't support trickery. Wolf, although his true species should not be, is far more clever than Fox. This is another major difference, which also factors into movesets.
I'll go to a new topic: Other clones. I get these arguments often. So, let me say the following. Ganondorf is the King of Darkness, and wields the Triforce of Power. Using dark magic, levitation, and even anatomatical transmuting, Ganondorf is a power to be feared and reckoned with. Captain Falcon is a bounty hunter who drives a hovercraft. His moves are based on his bounty hunting and fire. He is muscular, and quick, while Ganondorf is slow. They share almost nothing. Clone material? Far from it. But look how they ended up. As clones. You can't be certain where the clones will occur, now can you?
Now think about Mario and Luigi. Twins, and born only minutes from each other. Raised by the same parents the same way. Both are fire-tossing plumbers with an odd obsession for mushrooms. The are brothers, and far closer to identical. Clone material? Yes. Clones? No. Wow, once again I've proven that clones' placement is not certain.
Another example is found w/ Kirby and Jigglypuff. Both are pink puff balls, both are about the same height and weight, etc. Yet somehow they ended up w/ ENTIRELY different movesets. I rest my case.
Another rather stupid argument I get is "Wolf isn't major, he doesn't even have a backstory." You don't know how wrong you are. With help from his games and the veterans of the SF board, I have determined the following, so shut up and read.
Wolf was raised in a fairly happy environment, and lived on Corneria. Wolf was a close friend of James McCloud, the father of Fox McCloud. Eventually, Wolf and James had a dispute, and Wolf, convinced that he was right, warned James not to go through with his plan. James did, and it cost him his life. Wolf was furious, but decided to keep an eye on James' son, Fox. Fox and Wolf were FRIENDS. From what we can tell, Fox made a BIG mistake, which cost Wolf his eye, and many of his possessions other than the eye. Wolf was furious, and couldn't believe Fox would do such a thing. In the war Andross currently waged, it appears that both Fox's and Wolf's parents perished. In Androsses' next assault, Wolf joined up to support himself, and his friend, Leon, who may have also attended the Academy. Pigma was hired, and Andrew assigned by Andross. After his dogfight with Fox, Wolf realized that he could not bring himself to kill his one-time friend, and vowed to watch out for him instead. Now, getting over a vendetta, forgiving, and especially vowing protection takes IMMENSE inner strength, and I doubt that I could do the same. In SFA, Fox attacked Wolf's home base in an ill-advised mission, assuming Pigma was still with Wolf. Pigma had been kicked out long ago, and the attack simply killed many of Wolf's soldiers and vessels. Wolf was not thrilled, and attacked Fox, attempting to drive him from the system. Wolf did not succeed, however.(Dang AI, I hate it). Wolf, however, knew that something was up, and followed Fox afterward. He was right to do so. He saved Fox from certain death on a wayward mission to Corneria where Fox managed to get himself surrounded by powerful aparoids. Wolf helped Fox escape. Wolf and his team also soon after assist Fox in protecting a space station developing a program to counter the aparoids. Wolf even makes the ultimate sacrifice in the final run against the aparoid queen so Team StarFox can deliver the program. Wolf's wingmen, Leon and Panther, were willing to die right alongside him, which to me suggests a strong, intelligent, fair leader. It was not the end, however. Wolf and his team survive their diversion, and actually appear in StarFox Command. The Wolf lives on. Wolf is fiercy loyal, and protective of those he's close to. He doesn't care what the critics say, and will do anything for a cause he supports. He's confident and a good leader. In this I find a bond to Wolf through personality... and almost consider him a brother. Now THAT is a very deep story, and a dynamic character. As you can see, he's nowhere near "unimportant."
I'll address another point. This is for those of you who have read the movesets and the essay and still remain stubbornly unyielding. So you think Wolf will be a clone. So? Is that necessarily a bad thing? No. If he's a clone, guess where he'll be? Top Tier. Right along side his franchise siblings. He'll be popular, and totally awesome. So to be honest, I might PREFER Wolf as a clone.
Wolf is a dark character from an underrepresented franchise, and he BELONGS in Brawl. His appearance there would forever ensure his ultimate glory.
Wolf O'Donnell - By YoshiRancher.
Stats:
Movement Speed: ****(A little slower than Marth)
Attack Speed: ****( A little slower than Falco)
Weight: ***(? Not sure. W/ armor and equipment, slightly heavier than Mario, but lighter than Link.)
Jumping: ***(~60-70% height of highest jumper)
Damage Resistance: Slight physical. He is wearing armor, and if the armor is going to slow him down, there should be a reason for wearing it.
Addendum: I will add to this later.(extra notes)
Damage: ***.5 (3.5) (Wolf is meant to be a fair amount stronger than Fox)
Advantage: Fair speed, high speed attacks, good traction, almost a fastfaller.
Disadvantage: Good traction and almost a fastfaller can be disadvantages.
A - Punch.
A,A,A - Punch, elbow, knee.
Right A - Elbow
Running A - Slide tackle.
Smash A: Punch/elbow alternation.
Smash Right - Heavy Kick.
Smash Up - Bazooka bludgeon.(Sounds stupid, but can you imagine getting beaten by a bazooka? Ouch)
Alt Smash up: Flip. Does a back flip. First hit is the first foot, which stuns and knocks up slightly. The second foot does less of both than the first, and the tail is the heavy blow, w/ significant knockback. A three-hit combo. Think of Link's if you can't picture it.
Smash Down - Tail swipe(mulitple spins depending on charge).
Ground:
Jump - Standard.
Double jump - Front tuck or backflip, depending on which way he's headed.
A - Punch
Forward A - elbow
Back A - tail bludgeon
Up A - Kick up.(Not like Fox's, does a flip in place to hit w/ both feet)
Down A - Tail trip. (Like Yoshi's, but not as powerful.)
B - Slug thrower. Charge move. More bullets as charge increases. If the max charge(7 secs) is reached, Wolf's hands will glow until you unleash it. The machinegun w/ be a gattling gun when fully charged, which means energized bullets. (standard do 1% per hit, energized... 3%?) Energized also have a much more significant knockback.
Up B - Missile launcher. Similair to PK thunder, you can control the trajectory. Strike yourself w/ the missile to become a flaming projectile. You can detonate the missle w/ B. The missile explodes on contact, or on attempt to block/reflect.
Alt Up B - Jet pack. Wolf himself becomes a projectile, and has temporary movement freedom. The flames are severely devastating.
Down B - Trickery. This is one of my best. Wolf counters a hit for 1.5 times the damage. The target, if close enough, is stunned(As if their shield was broken) for a time based on how far Wolf would have been sent flying by the countered blow. Stun time cannot exceed 6 seconds, and the stunned recovers upon being struck. The move blocks projectiles, but does not reflect them. Wolf stays in the countering position for ~1.5 seconds, after which there is a ~.5 sec lag time. If grabbed while in countering mode, the grab is broken and both characters slightly knocked back. Neither takes damage nor is stunned. Can be used on recovering(getting back to stage) characters. Will interrupt the recovery and knock downward at a medium rate, depending on damage. The target can still use another recovery move. Also, recovery grabs are broken, and the grabber is knocked down at twice the normal rate.
Alt Down B: Pulse Mine. Wolf sets a mine. Any character walking near it is stunned by the pulse, and then nailed by the explosion. Wolf cannot place more than 3 mines at any time. If he attempts another, there is an 85% chance of him successfully placing it, but the oldest of the 4 current mines despawns, and there is a 15% chance of Wolf bending over/crouching to place the mine, realizing he doesn't have one, and looking silly. This will cause about 1.5 secs of vulnerability.
Smash B - Homing Launcher. Just holding the control stick sends a homing shell after the nearest opponent. A smash to the control stick sends a powerful non-guided shell.
Alt side B - Grenade. Aimed like Yoshi's egg. Explodes on contact w/ character, or rolls along ground if no contact is achieved. Can be detonated w/ B. Cannot be picked up, and does not cook.
Aerials:
Neutral: Standard kick. Like Link's.
Back air: Tail Strike(Like Mewtwo's, but stronger.)
Alt Back air: Double back kick.
Foward air: Kicks in an arc foward, then hits w/ tail as second strike while spinning... Similair to Link's, but not as strong and different knockback.
Down air: Stomp(spike).
Up air: Spin kick. Does a flip. Feet and tail will have damaging effect.
Throw
Grab - Just reaches out and grabs... medium-long range. Can grab someone behind using tail(if in range.) Wolf will automatically grab a person behind if grab is used and no ppl are in front.
A - Knee to guts or elbow to face... 3% dmg.
Right - Tosses up a little, catches on knee w/ breaking force, smacks off w/ elbow and kicks foward.
Up - Tosses straight up, then nails w/ a zooker shell. Target is stunned until AFTER the shell hits, no reflecting/blocks/evading
Back - Tosses them over him, stuns w/ a tail thwack, then gives them a hefty kick to the rear.
Down - Shoves grabee into ground face down, and somersaults across his/her back, starting at the head and going all the way down, crushing the spine. Wolf then slides the person away w/ his tail to avoid recovery hits.
Dodge:
Air: Like the sidestep, but in air.
Sidestep - Creates 4-5 Wolves, but all are wraith-like and intangible. The real, colored Wolf is not among them, and comes back after the dodge.
Roll - Illusionary. Disappears, and can string up to 3 rolls(Slides, actually) in a row w/o having to reappear.
Recovery:
From fall into defensive - Handspring or roll, depending on DI.
Attack from hanging(<100%) - Wolf tornado. Like Fox's dair, only w/ more knockback and horizontal.
Attack from hanging(100%+) - Struggles, swings up w/ a punch.
Attack from lying face down - Does a flip, clearing legs over head, and damaging/knocking back anyone hit by legs. Does a tail hit after returning to a standing position to clear any "Clever" opportunists.
Attack from lying face up - Propeller kick.(Like CF)
Ground to Roll - Illusionary slide/ roll to standing.
Kirby Outfit - Grey ears, one violet eye, and the cyborg eye. Maybe the unruly center patch of white b/w ears?
Arena- Sargasso Hideout. Moving elevators, machinegun turrets, wandering robots, and henchmen.
Taunt - 1) Leans on knee opposite of direction originally facing and says" I'll take care of everything."
2) Wags finger warningly...and says "Don't mess w/ me."
3) After dealing damage, says "What's the matter? You done already?".
Shield - Standard, but violet(Like his eye)
Symbol - Probably the StarFox emblem. In the next SSB, more SW ppl should be added, and SW will have its own emblem. I'm well aware that Wolf isn't a part of SF, but I'm not going to give him his very own symbol when there are (hopefully) 3 others w/ the SF emblem.
Claps - Crosses arms and is turned away. Does not applaud.
Victory pose 1 - Dual machine gun... fires in a frenzy. "Victory is MINE!"
Victory pose 2 - Evil chuckle while tossing a grenade b/w hands
Victory pose 3 - Hands on hips or crosses arms and says "Ha, is that all you got?"
Shadow Calibur
Smash Ace
Shoot, yoshiherder, you just HAD to bring in the heavy artillery, didn't ya? Good work.
And good Wolf moveset.
And good Wolf moveset.
Stryks
Smash Hero
I tought this was the andross thread? why all the "wolf wont be a fox clone"?
The Franchise
Smash Journeyman
Impressive argument YoshiRancher...I didn't know half that stuff about Wolf and I thought he would be a good character addition before.
Bowserlick, I may not agree with the character choice but it detication and determination to argue Andross's inclusion is very impressive.
Bowserlick, I may not agree with the character choice but it detication and determination to argue Andross's inclusion is very impressive.
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
Star Fox Command reveals Andross's background as a scientist (thereby making the scientist Andross canon which many people denied in earlier posts). The situation is prime for Andross (with a body) to enter in Star Fox. Because the Star Fox series is experimenting with other final bosses and villains, this might be the only Smash game where Andross can enter and still be remembered. With the new game showcasing his past and showing his body, Andross might have more of a shot in entering the game then many recently thought.
Black Metal
Smash Cadet
Dude, how many of your 352 posts have come from this thread? I seriously wanna know.
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
I would say about forty percent. But if you include the StarWolf and Andross thread, I would say about eighty-five percent of my posts come from those two topics.
Black Metal
Smash Cadet
Now you honestly don't think that's too much for one character?
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
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- 5,136
Many people are afraid Wolf would be a Fox clone due to TWO variables.
1. Similar body structure. Wolf and fox have the same limbs and even share a tail. But they are also the same proportions. Sure Mario and Captain Falcon both have the same amount of appendanges and are both human, but their proportions are dramatically different. Mario has a large bulbous head and even uses it for an attack. The Captain's long legs allow him to do more complex kicking moves. Let us examine Kirby and Jiggily Puff. They are not from the same franchise, but alot of their A moves look exactly the same. This is because they are both big balls with little appendanges. Similar body structure and proportions. Thus because of this factor Wolf and Fox, statistically, have a greater chance of having similar looking A moves.
2. Similar background, similar weapons. Both are leaders of air teams. Both of their ships have similar weapons and manuervability. I know they are not completely the same, but similar enough to warrant cloned or similar special attacks. Both also use the same weapons. So now statistically their B moves could be very similar looking.
Of course creativity could overcome these boundaries. I am not saying Wolf could not be unique. I am saying that Sakurai might not see enough variability potential in Wolf and not even bother to include him.
That is why I argue for Andross. He fullfills the villain role. He could offer a zany and strategic style of play.
Stryks
Smash Hero
Yeah the problem with andross is that he desnt have a body, and I know all about him being a scientist, but we all know Andross as a big head with 2 hands, givin a body would ruin hin IN A WAY, rather as boss ok ill let that pass but as a character nah, NO ONE wants him and im SURE he wont be in...
xianfeng
Smash Hero
Of course Luigi is so different from Mario, I mean I can't even tell their brothers!
Starfox isn't underrepresented Yoshi herder, it has 5 games and 2 characters, that is a very fair representation. Dk series has 21 games (soon to be 26) and 1 character, that is underrepresented. Fzero has 6 games and 1 character that is underrepresented, Metroid 11 games 1 character that is underrepresented, Yoshi series 5 games 1 character that is underrepresented Nintendo Wars 11 games 0 character that is underrepresented, Fire Emblem 9 games (soon to be 10) 2 characters that is underrepresented, Golden Sun 2 games 0 characters that is underrepresented. Need I contnue? The Star fox series is not underrepsented.
Starfox isn't underrepresented Yoshi herder, it has 5 games and 2 characters, that is a very fair representation. Dk series has 21 games (soon to be 26) and 1 character, that is underrepresented. Fzero has 6 games and 1 character that is underrepresented, Metroid 11 games 1 character that is underrepresented, Yoshi series 5 games 1 character that is underrepresented Nintendo Wars 11 games 0 character that is underrepresented, Fire Emblem 9 games (soon to be 10) 2 characters that is underrepresented, Golden Sun 2 games 0 characters that is underrepresented. Need I contnue? The Star fox series is not underrepsented.
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
Their moves look alike. We know clones can play differently, but their moves look exactly the same. That was part of the argument. People should actually read the posted arguments before posting.
Silver Flame
Smash Ace
one clones are not going to be in brawl
they don't want clones in brawl (they didn't want them in meele but they ran out of time) but time is something brawl has.
second the moveset is awsome
i like the idea of the mines, very nice
my moveset for wolf (cuz he will be in and andross won't)
b: gatling gun(can be replaced with your favorite gun from assult, except for demon launcher)
>b: double claw slash
Vb: pulse mine, i love this idea
^b: jetpack
third
andross, as reveled in the awsomeness of command, andross was not so evil but peper's rival. also he wanted to make venom beautiful and hospitable, as Dash later does with andross' device in one of the endings of command.
fourth
because all of luigi and mario's moves are exactly the same
all clones are going to at least be luigified(partial clone)
the most likely character to be a clone wasn't
bottom line
wolf won't be a clone and andross will not be in brawl
they don't want clones in brawl (they didn't want them in meele but they ran out of time) but time is something brawl has.
second the moveset is awsome
i like the idea of the mines, very nice
my moveset for wolf (cuz he will be in and andross won't)
b: gatling gun(can be replaced with your favorite gun from assult, except for demon launcher)
>b: double claw slash
Vb: pulse mine, i love this idea
^b: jetpack
third
andross, as reveled in the awsomeness of command, andross was not so evil but peper's rival. also he wanted to make venom beautiful and hospitable, as Dash later does with andross' device in one of the endings of command.
fourth
because all of luigi and mario's moves are exactly the same
all clones are going to at least be luigified(partial clone)
the most likely character to be a clone wasn't
bottom line
wolf won't be a clone and andross will not be in brawl
Inferno_blaze
Smash Lord
Why are you discussing a wolf moveset in the andross thread?
Silver Flame
Smash Ace
to prove to bowserlick that wolf will not be a clone
commonyoshi
Smash Hero
Prove? Every character has the oportunity to be an original character. They could make a red yoshi and a blue yoshi completely different if they wanted to.
PS: Andross suxors.
PS: Andross suxors.
Bowserlick
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,136
Many people are afraid Wolf would be a Fox clone due to TWO variables.
1. Similar body structure. Wolf and fox have the same limbs and even share a tail. But they are also the same proportions. Sure Mario and Captain Falcon both have the same amount of appendanges and are both human, but their proportions are dramatically different. Mario has a large bulbous head and even uses it for an attack. The Captain's long legs allow him to do more complex kicking moves. Let us examine Kirby and Jiggily Puff. They are not from the same franchise, but alot of their A moves look exactly the same. This is because they are both big balls with little appendanges. Similar body structure and proportions. Thus because of this factor Wolf and Fox, statistically, have a greater chance of having similar looking A moves.
2. Similar background, similar weapons. Both are leaders of air teams. Both of their ships have similar weapons and manuervability. I know they are not completely the same, but similar enough to warrant cloned or similar special attacks. Both also use the same weapons. So now statistically their B moves could be very similar looking.
Of course creativity could overcome these boundaries. I am not saying Wolf could not be unique (in fact I made a unique Wolf moveset you can see on page 60 of the wolf thread). I am saying that Sakurai might not see enough variability potential in Wolf and not even bother to include him.
I know people are saying that there will not be clones in Brawl. Well that could work against Wolf being in the game. It might not be worth the time and effort to give Wolf (who was created as a darker, stronger rival to Fox) a new moveset. Especially when Krystal already has a pre-written unique moveset and Andross (the main villain who without there wouldn't be a Starfox team) with a body (which he can have because his past was revealed in Command) would offer plently of potential for new and unique moves being a scientist and all.
That is why I argue for Andross. He fullfills the villain role. He could offer a zany and strategic style of play.
Silver Flame
Smash Ace
i agree that wolf has the potential to be a clone but he also has the potential to be original
what about luigi? he is mario's brother and he's not a clone
as for being similar, what about all the human fighters, a fox and a wolf are similar but all the humans are even more similar but they can fight differently
what about luigi? he is mario's brother and he's not a clone
as for being similar, what about all the human fighters, a fox and a wolf are similar but all the humans are even more similar but they can fight differently