An interesting discovery about High Gravity mode

[AmishTechnology]

This is funny. I kind of thought to myself "why don't they have a tiny-Melee tournament?" once night as I played tiny Melee. The characters survived much longer (even one-stock matches against a COMPUTER took a while), several "weak" characters were buffed (Mewtwo with a projectile shield, Bowser with uber fire, Link with uber Up-B), Wavedashes were insane for everyone, etc.

Then I thought to myself, bleh, might as well play the game "normally" and not cause confusions.

 

[DRaGZ]

I think the high gravity option is the most positive thing I've seen about brawl since launch. With an increase in gravity faster gameplay, applicable combos, edgeguarding, and all around more exhilerating mode of play is open to us. However I do see the other side of the coin and I think brawl does deserve some breathing room to acknowledge if the default settings are the best way of moving forward.

What I don't like is how some of my fellow smashers accuse those pro of high gravity as ignorant and scared of change. We've all seen the game and can agree that the lack of speed and combos lessens the "Whoa" factor we all loved and attracted us to melee. A fact many on this thread forget is that we bet MONEY on this game; and when you see things like random tripping you start questioning things like Sakurai's omnipotent balance.

All in all I say let brawl show its stuff default for the first 6 months, if things dunt evolve or if the gameplay dulls we could potentially come to this mode of play (high grav).

I totally agree.

 

[twdfx]

I'll have to try that tomorrow. It looks almost like melee.

I was playing it today for the first time.. I was trying to L cancel everything because of habit. It's really annoying. I don't like that some characters feel nearly unplayable because of the lack of L canceling. I know it's it's own game and it's not melee and all, but I still really feel that this game would benefit from L canceling. I think it would make it more balanced if anything.

I doubt that any special melee will ever become a 'standard', but it's still worth keeping an eye on.

 

[Toadster5]

I just don't want Brawl to end up being an exchange of individual attacks with the occasional 2 hit combo and projectile spamming. That doesn't seem fun, or exciting to watch (which is becoming more and more important for competitive titles).

 

[-sonny-]

This is funny. I kind of thought to myself "why don't they have a tiny-Melee tournament?" once night as I played tiny Melee. The characters survived much longer (even one-stock matches against a COMPUTER took a while), several "weak" characters were buffed (Mewtwo with a projectile shield, Bowser with uber fire, Link with uber Up-B), Wavedashes were insane for everyone, etc.

Then I thought to myself, bleh, might as well play the game "normally" and not cause confusions.

Roy's UpB is an instakill in Tiny Melee

ROY FOR TOP TEIR!!!!1!!!

 

[Crossjeremiah]

this game will still have its exploits. and don't bash it because the melee exploits weren't in it...

 

[Kryptonite X]

this game will still have its exploits. and don't bash it because the melee exploits weren't in it...

Why are people so quick to assume that there will be exploits in brawl?


Why can't people just simply let go of the fact that brawl is totally different from melee.

 

[cynar]

I'm surprised at the whining due to the fact several bugs have been fixed since melee. **** babies.

 

[Sm00th_Crim1nal]

Guys please look at the facts about brawl. Edgeguarding is near impossible, combos are rare, and there is even random tripping! Don't write high gravity off without a fair assessment of its pros and cons. This community isn't looking for Melee 2.0, what we all want is a fun, action packed game that allows at least some eyecandy (combos/fancy edgeguarding) with its mindgames.

 

[Rose Monkey]

Guys please look at the facts about brawl. Edgeguarding is near impossible, combos are rare, and there is even random tripping! Don't write high gravity off without a fair assessment of its pros and cons. This community isn't looking for Melee 2.0, what we all want is a fun, action packed game that allows at least some eyecandy (combos/fancy edgeguarding) with its mindgames.

Fun huh? If you've seen the videos liiike.. Falco vs. Wolf on Shadow Moses. That looked fun, intense and enjoyable to watch.

This high gravity stuff is just combocombocombokill like melee. It's incredibly boring to watch, and from competitively playing, boring to play.

 

[GreenKirby]

Sure that's okay, Smooth Criminal.

But can't normal Brawl be given chance a first before people decide that Jupiter gravity is better?

That's the problem, people are quick to assume that the higher gravity = better.

 

[Terrabottuti]

Why are people so quick to assume that there will be exploits in brawl?


Why can't people just simply let go of the fact that brawl is totally different from melee.

This isn't really my sort of debate, but whatever... there's always exploits in games. No game is perfecty made, because it's impossible to test EVERY single circumstance that is humanly possible, or otherwise as the case may be. As the obsessive fans play and experiment more and more, especially on competitive games, so do the chances of something that the developers never really considered during testing popping up. Over the years, all sorts of things popped up for Melee, and I can almost assure you there will be something for Brawl. It's all just a matter of time and patience.

Of course, this is assuming people actually want to bother playing Brawl for any sort of competitive kicks, it all seems a little uncertain at the moment, haha. Brawl looks like it will be a barrel of laughs, but as soon as people talk about money, everything always changes.

Anyway, this high-gravity business sounds interesting, I forgot Brawl had it at all. It's good that they decided to include some sort of offset for all the rather amusing floatiness that main Brawl has, but don't you think we should play test normal Brawl for a bit before just jumping to high-grav? You guys could be missing out on some very important details while trying to get your competitive kicks EXACTLY like in Melee...

 

[Xarias]

Omg the game has only been out a week.

You don't even know how its going to play yet. Everyone is still stuck in their old Melee habits, instead of embracing the new game.

I wish people would just calm down. We have all the time in the world to develop the metagame and "keep the game from getting stale." If you hadn't noticed, the game is NEW!!! ITS NOWHERE NEAR STALE YET! ITS NOT EVEN OUT FOR SALE IN AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeebus christ people...

 

[5@/\/\U5]

Sure that's okay, Smooth Criminal.

But can't normal Brawl be given chance a first before people decide that Jupiter gravity is better?

That's the problem, people are quick to assume that the higher gravity = better.

Smooth clearly states on the previous page that the standard setting should certainly be given plenty of playtime before any kind of tournament standard is set in stone. People need to quit jumping down his throat

 

[SGX]

I'm kind of surprised making an observation and stating my opinion on it resulted in this.

Ok, not THAT surprised. lol.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Why are people so quick to assume that there will be exploits in brawl?


Why can't people just simply let go of the fact that brawl is totally different from melee.

Because Melee was one of the greatest competitive games of all time, allowing not only casual players to have fun, but professional players to make thousands of dollars off of it? Maybe because there are people who have spent years dedicating their life to this game, and they're nervous that the past 5-6 years of their life will be wasted?

An example...I've saved around 2000 dollars over the past 2 years waiting for Brawl to come out...I'm planning on travelling EVERYWHERE to practice, train and become the best. I'm very nervous that if Brawl isn't like Melee, I will have spent 2 years of my life hoping for a dream that may never come true.

Am I wrong for being nervous that Brawl may not be like Melee?

 

[Xarias]

Am I wrong for being nervous that Brawl may not be like Melee?

Yes.

Because you were expecting Melee 2.0, instead of Brawl like you should have.

 

[GreenKirby]

Smooth clearly states on the previous page that the standard setting should certainly be given plenty of playtime before any kind of tournament standard is set in stone. People need to quit jumping down his throat

I'm not jumping down HIS throat. I'm jumping down the throats of people who think high gravity should be the standard automatically. Sheesh.

 

[StevenM]

and they're nervous that the past 5-6 years of their life will be wasted?

Too late for that.

 

[Lant]

Fun = Falco/Fox on FD with no items.

Yeah.

No.

Useless trying to make Brawl more like melee, it's like complaining about Ryu Hayabusa's ridiculouss strength in DOA4 and forcing everyone not to use his ninjutsu. Sort of.

 

[PXG]

I could never see those conducting tournaments, making HG mode standard. People are pissed because they won't be able to Pillar with Fox and Falco and can't do a million Fairs with Marth anymore. Seriously, this game was meant to be played with more than five characters....

 

[mezbomber]

Seriously, this game was meant to be played with more than five characters....

awesome!! I thought it was hilarious when a lot of the first 1v1 vids we got were all Fox, Falco, Wolf, and Marth. Glad to see more variety in competitive play always.

 

[Noxin]

thats good to hear but i doubt a regulation tournament will be held in this mode

 

[Dust319]

I think the reason people are gravitating toward this right now is only because it seems to resemble Melee's play-style at first, a playstyle that competitive players have grown accustomed to. However, I suspect that after some serious playtesting, people will come to notice that it has a few more variants that make it very different from Melee as well.

We should wait at least till the game is released world-wide (whenever that is, sorry Europe ) and after everyone has played Brawl under various settings extensively before anything is decided in terms of tournament regulations.

 

[Dan-E]

Why waste time training in a mode that is NOT the default mode?

Y'know, why not spend your time practicing in the RIGHT friggin' mode, instead of screwing yourself over by playing in a side mode as if it were the default?

It is not the default mode. It never was, and it never WILL be.

To believe that people will take a trip to the special melee button to engage in actual competitive Brawl as opposed to heading to the regular VS mode is laughable. You hear me? Laughable. GUFFAWKINGFAW!

THERE IS NO REASON TO PLAY A MODE THAT DISADVANTAGES CHARACTERS JUST SO YOUR CHARACTER CAN HAVE THE ADVANTAGE. It SEVERELY undercuts many heavy characters and that is absolutely not fair. On top of that, in order to seriously play THAT mode, you WOULD have to limit yourself to a handful of characters....

Make combos with the REAL mode, as opposed to taking the easy route and going to the altered mode.

Just because TC sucks at the game because he can't string a combo in the NORMAL mode dosen't mean everyone else can't.

Oi, you all give me headaches.

seriously stop it. don't preach to us about the "normal" mode. "normal" mode for both melee and brawl is 2 minute time match. if (as it's looking to be) "normal" brawl combos prove to be almost impossible or highly ineffective making this game based around running away and going in for one hit the running away again then bring on the mode where combos work.


we don't know how much high gravity mode affects gameplay yet. if the competitve community thinks that it is a worthwhile addition then that's how it'll be.

so freaking annoying. we're not telling you how to play. leave us alone. seriously.

 

[twdfx]

I played a decent number of matches with different characters against a CPU today in high gravity mode.

The only downside to this mode is that some characters recoveries are severely crippled. Pit barely gets any height with his multiple jumps, and his up+b takes at least a couple seconds to gain any height at all if holding up. Link now has a horrible recovery too. Dedede gets no height from jumps and half the height from his up+b.

On the other hand, the game plays SO MUCH BETTER. I can hit combos! It's absolutely wonderful. I'm going to try to convince my friends to at least try it. It feels so much nicer, with the exception of some crippled recoveries. All it means for some, like pit, is that it's more important to glide than it was otherwise.

The competetive scene really has to consider this as a 'default' for serious tournaments. The game feels so much more responsive, much more aggressive, and just more fun in high gravity mode.

I seriously urge everyone to at least give it a couple dozen matches of a shot before passing judgement.

 

[Moldy Clay]

From what I am gathering, this is only beneficial to characters who were high/top tier in the last game.

Doesn't that kind of defeat the point? It disrupts the character balance because it ruins the recovery system for some characters, making them not play the way they are supposed to be.

Competitions are not to cater to top tiered characters of the last game. If they were nerfed, they were nerfed. You're not making the game more competitive by changing the mode, you're making it easier for you to win with your combos as fast characters against gimped characters because they were built to play in a different setting. Just because YOUR character is not as good in this new setting of floatiness, does not mean that it is better for competitive play.

This is almost as bad as people complaining about the roster for not having their favorite character in it. You're not happy with Brawl's physics because your favorite character isn't as useful in that environment.

Or so, that's what I've gathered from lurking in this topic.

I stopped playing Melee for a while, because I know Brawl is different. I don't want to be expecting Melee results and getting thrown off.

 

[Wuzzy]

so freaking annoying. we're not telling you how to play. leave us alone. seriously.

Yes you are dictating how casuals play if this mode is somehow implemented as an official tourney rule.

because casuals who would like to enter competitive play would then have to practice an entirely differnt setting, high gravity, in order to compete with others. THAT IS AFFECTING how EVERYONE who wants to enter a tourney.

In melee, the only thing that stopped casuals from entering was learning advance techiques. Heck, they don't even need them if they are that good.

But if this is implemented, the gap between casuals and competitives will be so big because this mode is basically an entirely new game.

 

[Tristan_win]

I could defiantly seeing that being used! Beside it wouldn't be the first time the competitive scene have had to change the game standard features in order to make the game more completive able, heck look at halo 3 they don't use any equipment. Also in melee we found that exploding creates and capsules added too much randomness and luck within the game so we removed them, would increasing gravity to help nourish the tournament scene be really that bad? I’m not saying we should defiantly use the highest setting but instead maybe we could find some type of happy medium for all characters.

 

[5150]

The idea is good for custom tourneys, but not as the standard. It's like Melee, but worse, because of the adv techs missing. Can we just accept how Brawl plays normally and enjoy it until we find some new exploits?

Yes you are dictating how casuals play if this mode is somehow implemented as an official tourney rule.

because casuals who would like to enter competitive play would then have to practice an entirely differnt setting, high gravity, in order to compete with others. THAT IS AFFECTING how EVERYONE who wants to enter a tourney.

In melee, the only thing that stopped casuals from entering was learning advance techiques. Heck, they don't even need them if they are that good.

But if this is implemented, the gap between casuals and competitives will be so big because this mode is basically an entirely new game.

WRONG.

lets see some other reasons people didn't enter tourneys

-no items
-there are banned stages
-"character x" is cheap

making it high gravity is just another setting that actually allows combos and makes edgehogging useful. get over yourselves casual players, if you cant take the heat dont go in teh kitchen.

 

[Dan-E]

Yes you are dictating how casuals play if this mode is somehow implemented as an official tourney rule.

because casuals who would like to enter competitive play would then have to practice an entirely differnt setting, high gravity, in order to compete with others. THAT IS AFFECTING how EVERYONE who wants to enter a tourney.

In melee, the only thing that stopped casuals from entering was learning advance techiques. Heck, they don't even need them if they are that good.

But if this is implemented, the gap between casuals and competitives will be so big because this mode is basically an entirely new game.

No one is forcing anyone to play by rules they don't want to. End of story. We play the way we want to. You play the way you want to. If a tournament occurs that's only high gravity and you don't want to play in it then don't. No one is forcing you to. If you want to play normal brawl then go to a different tourney. Again no one is forcing you to do anything.

If high grav become the competitive standard across the world then it will have been tested and compared millions and billions of times against normal brawl until the point where THE BEST AND MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE smashers in the world make that decision.

Does that mean you have to play that way? NOOOOO!!!!

 

[Doomgaze]

Right now I wish there was a button to automatically squelch everyone who sings the "standard" argument but hasn't even played Brawl yet.

Increasing gravity or % was one of the first things I thought of after having played Brawl the first whole day.

This needs to be tested throughly, it might be even better than the regular setting.

 

[Espy Rose]

Only a handful of people in this thread are making any sense.

Melee took quite some time to build up it's competetive scene right? I don't see why we have to suddenly change the way it's meant to be played within a week of owning the game. Not only that, but the fact that the game isn't even owned by most of us- yet we assume and agree on physic changing gameplay- is just laughable.

Seriously, give Brawl a chance to show what it can do. Give it the time Melee had to become a competetive game. After a majority of us have the game, and express our opinions (hopefully in a manner more appropriate than many posters here), maybe then we can come to a conclusion about this.

By the way, poor topic creator must feel awkward after sending so many people into a frenzy. Really.

 

[tehmpest]

I was a competitive player in Melee, but didn't go to too many tournaments. I think, some people are too used to Melee. This may or may not apply to people who didn't play Melee with ATs and such, and most likely applies to many "competitive" players. Melee came out in December 2001, and now it's early 2008. Many of us were probably following Melee since it's announcement, and playing it since it's release. It also took a good while to discover and perfect all the ATs used in Melee up until now.

Where it all comes together, is that everybody is so used to all of this now. In fighting game series like Guilty Gear, new installments tweak and fix up the existing engine, with maybe a few changes here and there, but with the jump from Melee to Brawl, the entire engine has been reworked. It's an entirely new engine, bringing and requiring new playstyles to be used.

Lot's of people hated the loss of L-canceling, and the loss of wavedashing, while some people didn't care, competitive players all not. But the people who are so used to Melee, and don't like the floatiness and overall slower gameplay of SSBB, won't be used to it, and would have to adjust, while some flat out won't like it. Some people who will be making the jump from Melee to Brawl, may still want to play Brawl, but very much liked Melee's playstyle, and will do what they can to best bring that style to SSBB, instead of having to stay back on the GameCube. This may or may not be ideal, and it may divide the competitive scene itself, apart from just casuals vs. competitive, between people who want the more Melee like experience, and who want to play Brawl in it's normal Brawl mode. Of course, people who want to get into Brawl competitively may just accept it, and even if competitive Melee players stick with Melee, new players will join the Brawl competitive scene, especially with the inclusion of online, and help drive it forward.

What I'm saying is, some people won't like it, some people will, and if it comes down to it, there could end up being a split, and different groups may or may not play competitively with the normal Brawl mode, and the rest in high gravity mode, or, we'll settle for one or the other.

Also, I don't like using competitive and casual, but they're the only words I could think of to use.

This is all just my opinion.

 

[JCrazYAkumA]

i'm going to LoL once D.A players Plays it Normal with no High Gravity mode

 

[shinnok-fan64]

This is how i feel to be honest:

I'm going to play regular mode, as i want a gameplay that feels ALOT diffrent than Melee's.

BUT,if tourney players want to use high-gravity mode, be my guess.

Just don't expect me to use it, as i certainly won't.

 

[I_R_Hungry]

WRONG.

lets see some other reasons people didn't enter tourneys

-no items
-there are banned stages
-"character x" is cheap

making it high gravity is just another setting that actually allows combos and makes edgehogging useful. get over yourselves casual players, if you cant take the heat dont go in teh kitchen.

yeah, because having standard competitive play based around a mode that the game wasn't balanced around, and 99% of the community isn't accustomed to whatsoever, isn't going to drive the casual userbase away at all. are you kidding me lol

And don't tell me that the casual fanbase doesn't matter; this game is going to be around for 5, 6, 7 years, the current casuals who will eventually make up a portion of competitive play will be important.

 

[VersatileBJN]

^ which puts players like me in a tough spot if that happens because I want to be competitive in Brawl but also want to play it the "real" way.

The more vids I see the less I believe this will happen anyway. Game looks so fun.

 

[LavisFiend]

seriously stop it. don't preach to us about the "normal" mode. "normal" mode for both melee and brawl is 2 minute time match. if (as it's looking to be) "normal" brawl combos prove to be almost impossible or highly ineffective making this game based around running away and going in for one hit the running away again then bring on the mode where combos work.


we don't know how much high gravity mode affects gameplay yet. if the competitve community thinks that it is a worthwhile addition then that's how it'll be.

so freaking annoying. we're not telling you how to play. leave us alone. seriously.

No dude, that is normal TIME mode setting. It is a variable that exists within the balanced normal mode. Turning the time up or turning it off affects the TIME portion of timed melee. It means nothing because tournament play is carried out through stock mode. Stock, time, coin, whatever.... all exist as variables that work WITH the balanced default mode.

but you see, what you are arguing is completely idiotic....

because you are not FOR a variable.....

YOU ARE FOR A MODE THAT COMPLETELY ALTERS THE BALANCE OF THE OVERALL CHARACTERS. WHY can't you GRASP this?

Yes, I will continue to preach the gospel that is playing the game in the correct mode, because it is completely moronic to assume that just because someone sucks so bad that they can't make a combo in the default mode that everyone else can't, WHICH YOU ARE ASSUMING.

Just shut up Dan E. You are nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense.

You are actually repping a HANDICAP mode in order to gain an advantage.

So just shut your mouth.

 

[Toadster5]

No dude, that is normal TIME mode setting. It is a variable that exists within the balanced normal mode. Turning the time up or turning it off affects the TIME portion of timed melee. It means nothing because tournament play is carried out through stock mode. Stock, time, coin, whatever.... all exist as variables that work WITH the balanced default mode.

but you see, what you are arguing is completely idiotic....

because you are not FOR a variable.....

YOU ARE FOR A MODE THAT COMPLETELY ALTERS THE BALANCE OF THE OVERALL CHARACTERS. WHY can't you GRASP this?

Yes, I will continue to preach the gospel that is playing the game in the correct mode, because it is completely moronic to assume that just because someone sucks so bad that they can't make a combo in the default mode that everyone else can't, WHICH YOU ARE ASSUMING.

Just shut up Dan E. You are nonsense. Complete and utter nonsense.

You are actually repping a HANDICAP mode in order to gain an advantage.

So just shut your mouth.

How do you know the game isn't more balanced in high gravity mode?