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Am I the only marth that uses aerial dancing blade???

~ Gheb ~

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It's a pretty cool mix-up between fair and nair. You can bait moves with aerial DB1 and immediately punish them with the following hits. This works very well vs grounded moves - use DB1 to lure out a hitbox and at the same time linger above it for a few frames. If you succesfully avoid the move you can freely punish with the other hits of DB. This works even against quick moves like grabs.

If the opponent is behind you in the air DB1 hits faster than bair and you don't have the auto-cancel / fastfall issues. It also has a much shorter animation. Missing an aerial DB1 still gives you the option of using Dolphin Slash or Counter to possibly avoid punishment - bair does not! A succesful hit of aerial DB1 still comboes into the other hits of Dancing Blade so using DB1 instead of bair gives you more options, is safer and can lead to more damage. The only time bair is better is when you need to outrange your opponent's moves. Start doing this, people!

:059:
 

∫unk

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that was discovered when the game came out by kizzu kun (example here at 19secs: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtIHp9JaNJc)

since then it's sporadically used as a mixup

unfortunately, using db in the air is not good in general for a bunch of reasons but mostly due to the lack of range on the move itself and how it cuts your horizontal momentum.
 

Pierce7d

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No, I use aerial Dancing Blade a LOT.

Most people just don't understand how it works. When I finally get around to writing the advanced version of my guide, I'll go in depth. For now, I'll just mention that I use it a lot for cross ups.

Basically, it comes down to understanding that this option is better used falling than rising.
 

∫unk

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although im really skeptical, that sounds great if it works

but im skeptical because i watched a video of you from around a month ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZS1dGilxlk

1) you use db in the air once... maybe twice.
2) you play extremely recklessly. you get hit so many times because you try to "crossover" almost every time predictably.

of course, this was a month ago and things change.

i think mike's approach to marth is the best. spacing and playing safe so you don't get hit when you have a bad read is a lot more consistent style and has been getting better results.
 

Pierce7d

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although im really skeptical, that sounds great if it works

but im skeptical because i watched a video of you from around a month ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZS1dGilxlk

1) you use db in the air once... maybe twice.
2) you play extremely recklessly. you get hit so many times because you try to "crossover" almost every time predictably.

of course, this was a month ago and things change.

i think mike's approach to marth is the best. spacing and playing safe so you don't get hit when you have a bad read is a lot more consistent style and has been getting better results.
LOL @ thinking how I play vs. my most frequent sparring partner in the comforts of my own living room = how I play in tournament.

This is a Lucario main that consistently powershields falling fair and plays safe ALL DAY EVERY MATCH and DIs out of Dancing Blade without fail EVERYTIME. Since I don't want to time him out like this in every single match, I try to figure out new stuff, and new ways to approach a character with a stupid roll and broken safe death moves, when the opposing player knows Marth like the back of his hand. I do things that appear dumb like overusing Dair because he would FREQUENTLY Utilt everything else, so I was like "Screw it, I'll just Dair." You're looking at a match between two players who play 3 times a week or more for hours on end, and I didn't even play that good that match. Obviously I'm going to do mad bull ****. Even though I win most of the matches with Marth, it's honestly easier to beat him with Mario (and of course, MK).

This is why I normally don't have my own videos uploaded online, because they never represent anything, especially considering how many different styles of play I use, but people are quick to jump to conclusions after watching one video.

He also picked that match SPECIFICALLY because he won. He uploaded a pair of him winning, and him losing, and I told him that he could pick any two, and he said he wouldn't pick any with any SDs in them. There were at least 30 videos recorded in that session alone, so I don't know why he chose that particular one to upload. Obviously I made like 9000+ technical errors that match. (two Usmashes on a platform, seriously whiffed Dolphin Slash that I'm pretty sure I paused and started laughing IRL, etc) If you are really interested in getting a good look at how I play, I save almost every replay, and I have most of them saved to my computer, so I'll send you a bunch if you're ACTUALLY interested to see what I really play like.

It's lulzy for you to even use the term "predictable" when two people who play each other for 15+ hours a week put up a random video. Everything is dumb because we already know what we're going to do/can do/best options are, so we just do mad random stuff. Since Lucario is at disadvantage in the MU, he generally sticks to playing safe, with periodic random approaches, and I'm mainly rushing him the whole match, every match, just playing for fun, trying to be flashy and creative.

Mike Haze is undoubtedly better at this game than me. I've played him. He has better tech skill, better spacing by a bit, better reads I think, just overall better control of his character. Mine is pretty top notch, but not quite his level. Overall, I know more than him. I know more MUs, more general knowledge, etc, but he's overall better. So far, him and Neo have proven to be better, and I haven't really found anyone else, though I suspect Mr-R is more consistent than me. Randomly comparing our styles based off that video is pretty laughable though. It doesn't even accurately represent my aggression or creativeness, because it's against the player as much as it is the character.


TL:DR cause I over did it
I would not say things changed much from a month ago, but I would say you don't have an accurate measure from a month ago. In most friendlies vs people I play a lot, I play for the replay. If you really want some videos of me, I'll send you some.
 

Mr-R

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misread the thread....
anyway it can be pretty usefull at times but situational
 

∫unk

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yeah definitely not reading that wall of text based off a friendly (like you said). read the beginning and the tldr.

why are you laughing at my assumption (and it wasn't really an assumption just an analysis, completely different)... what else am i going to go by? i'm not even sure where you are ranked in your region or what your wins are recently so the easiest thing is to look up the most recent video of you.

playing for the replay in friendlies sounds extremely counterproductive to learning how to play

sure send some tournament videos... preferably against a ranked player, especially one that i would recognize
 

Rad

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Sometimes I DB1 as a mix-up, but I'd never consider following it up with the rest of DB. I usually follow up DB1 with F-air, because it gives you some ability to manoeuvre. I can't think of many situations where you'd need to reverse DB1 in the air either, especially with Marth's good aerial movement.

That said, I have never used it, and understand very little about its applications. I only really have an opinion because I always read 'Don't Aerial DB it fails' as fact and never questioned it. I look forward to reading Pierce's Advanced Guide.
 

Remzi

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I use aerial DB1 a good amount, and a full DB in the air very rarely. There are few times when a full DB combo in the air is actually the best option.
 

~ Gheb ~

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unfortunately, using db in the air is not good in general for a bunch of reasons but mostly due to the lack of range on the move itself and how it cuts your horizontal momentum.
I don't see how this is a disadvantage at all? If it cuts your horizontal momentum it's even more difficult to predict correctly because you can even mix it up with approaching fair - the start-up lag is exactly the same but the momentum is completely different.

Basically, it comes down to understanding that this option is better used falling than rising.
This isn't always the case, Pierce. It doesn't matter if it's falling or rising if you continue the DB in the air. You will always drop down exactly the same way during the 2nd and the 3rd hit. It only matters if you use DB1 only.

I can't think of many situations where you'd need to reverse DB1 in the air either, especially with Marth's good aerial movement.
It's probably the hardest move to predict and if you're close to the ground it's almost impossible to dodge for the opponent because you can simply follow up with the following hits of DB (in case of airdodge).

:059:
 

-Kiros-

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I use DB1 sometimes, DB1 turn around to Fair sometimes catches people off guard. But still nothing to be spammed like Fair. Situational and a mix-up.
 

Pierce7d

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This isn't always the case, Pierce. It doesn't matter if it's falling or rising if you continue the DB in the air. You will always drop down exactly the same way during the 2nd and the 3rd hit. It only matters if you use DB1 only.
This is smash. Rarely are things, "Always the case."

Also, Junk, Viridian is coming up. How bout I get some videos of some serious friendlies vs Larry?
 

clowsui

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too bad junkums lives in norcal and doesn't play larry often enough to save friendlies vs. him, much less marth friendlies
 

Sake-Hato

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DB in the air is risky point blank.Marth is do well if i space char,if you Db in the air in order to hit your opponent your in close range and that means your doing it wrong :p but people tend to use it to make them look more flashy..This is all IMO :p
 

adumbrodeus

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It's a cool mix-up, I actually need to use it more, but I definately wouldn't knock it as an option.


Back Air hits well above and below you compared to db1s less favourable arcing hit box.

Back Air is not hard to auto cancel either.
I think he means that you're more limited if you wanna auto-cancel it, if you're not fast-falling you get landing lag after slightly below the apex of your jump (if you fast-fall you basically have to buffer).
 

Kishin

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I use it as a mix-up quite often. People often get used to shielding single attacks in the air so the multiple hits of dancing blade surprises people. Also, rising db -> f-air mindgames if they catch on to aerial dancing blades + that further mindgames into db -> shieldbreak.
 

Z'zgashi

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I short hop into i for mix ups sometimes, i find it prettyeffective.
 

A2ZOMG

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I'm doing a horrible job of emulating how Pierce uses DB1, but yeah, it's good stuff.

Can't wait to see your completed guide Pierce.
 

Player-3

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alright cool i'll have to practice that stuff
i don't have the game so i theorycraft alot then test everything out when i have the chance

i have applications for this pivot db1 and stuff

woooooooo knowledge
 

Saki-

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Bah, after looking at Pierce's video I'm afraid I might result to doing that. One of my best friends on these boards uses Lucario and we play each other alot. It's rather stupid how much MU experience we have against each other, so every tournament match or money match is a pain in the ***. Especially with Lucario's broken power ups. Dying from a fsmash at 80% is never fun. <.<

It usually ends up like this
I either 2 stock him or he 2 stocks me. Rarely are the matches last stock with both of us at high %'s
 

Pierce7d

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Bah, after looking at Pierce's video I'm afraid I might result to doing that. One of my best friends on these boards uses Lucario and we play each other alot. It's rather stupid how much MU experience we have against each other, so every tournament match or money match is a pain in the ***. Especially with Lucario's broken power ups. Dying from a fsmash at 80% is never fun. <.<

It usually ends up like this
I either 2 stock him or he 2 stocks me. Rarely are the matches last stock with both of us at high %'s
Please keep in mind that I (obviously) played very poorly in that video. I normally beat this opponent 4/5 matches.

Also, DB one is amazing for adjusting your spacing, since it cancels your momentum.
 

∫unk

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what?

This is smash. Rarely are things, "Always the case."

Also, Junk, Viridian is coming up. How bout I get some videos of some serious friendlies vs Larry?
can you say that louder please?

This is smash. Rarely are things, "Always the case."

Also, Junk, Viridian is coming up. How bout I get some videos of some serious friendlies vs Larry?
wtf i still can't hear you

This is smash. Rarely are things, "Always the case."

Also, Junk, Viridian is coming up. How bout I get some videos of some serious friendlies vs Larry?

alright cool looking forward to it
 

Neon X

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I only use this: Short hop>DB1>Nair gets auto cancelled and follow up with your favorite Smash combination. I usually do a reverse Fmsah and depending on the % the tip can hit on the Arc of MArth's Swing.
 

Mr-R

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I only use this: Short hop>DB1>Nair gets auto cancelled and follow up with your favorite Smash combination. I usually do a reverse Fmsah and depending on the % the tip can hit on the Arc of MArth's Swing.
*Aghum*
it's called the R combo, and it works best with u tilt or upsmash instead of f smash :o
 

Neon X

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Wasn't that combo of yours to Grab release Mk into the Db1, Nair cancell,Upsmash?
 

Mr-R

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Yeah, though it isn't really a combo against mk :$
 

Neon X

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Sh** I hate that flying little ball of Sh**. **** can't we just inject Melee Marth to Brawl? Lmao
 

Ori_bro

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I'm trying to incorporate DB in the air more, people dont see it coming really and when you get DB4 (down) its like a small wall.
 
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