Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[Duchock]

Kevin and I are leaving B-ham around 5ish. So 2 hours driving, we'll be there at 7.

 

[Majist]

awww mslano couldn't come!?

well i can't wait to meet you!! and kevin can always wreck my face in brawl again. good times

 

[SK8orDIE]

I hope to see everyone tonight. Sorry we missed you , mslano; your talent and wit are truly indispensable.

Also, Reflex, please add my brawl code. I added you a while back, but had to trim some unconfirmed friend codes to appease the 91010 error code gods.

I HSV.

 

[Kalm]

Ok on a s serious note though...

These are some statistics for anyone interested in the matter but hasn't had a chance to study them yet.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141725&page=440

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162546

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=162374

Also this.



Cyanide & Happiness @ Explosm.net

 

[CahPhoenix]

Anyone that knows mslano tell him what's up from cah, haven't seen him in forever.

 

[Majist]

hey phoenix, you're smashing with us tonight aren't you? i love meeting new smashers.

everything's going down around 7-8.

 

[ragnarock]

OK, so when is the Next Bama tourney, I'm itching to play some Northern Bama smashers.

 

[Majist]

i think we're in the process of putting one together. Rob has a potential venue in which we could hold one. Keep your ears open

 

[[_-T4RN1SH-_]]

I dint feel like quoting XD... anyways Kalm do you have any idea how accurate or recent that Tier list is ? The reason i ask is because i showed my friend and he having trouble agreeing with alot of the placements. I'm pretty alright with most but its just my friend .

 

[theONEjanitor]

Good games huntsville. people. I wish I could play yalls more often.

 

[munkus beaver]

It will probably take 2-3 years for an accurate tier list to develop. Some of the most powerful characters are also some of the most unpopular characters, so their metagames won't be fully developed/utilized and they won't be winning as many tournies as the others.

I believe that, at the highest level of play, Wario and G&W are top tier.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Wario and G&W are right under Snake and Metaknight

 

[munkus beaver]

I'm not that quick to put G&W under snake and MK.

 

[j00t]

It will probably take 2-3 years for an accurate tier list to develop. Some of the most powerful characters are also some of the most unpopular characters, so their metagames won't be fully developed/utilized and they won't be winning as many tournies as the others.

I believe that, at the highest level of play, Wario and G&W are top tier.

I believe that you're saying that just to take attention off of MR. MEATKNIGHT, sir.

Metaknight
Snake
the rest doesn't matter

That's the tier list, everyone.

Also, GG's last night. WE HAD FUN WITHOUT YOU, SENSAI!

 

[Kalm]

Here are two of the talked about most agreed upon tiers lists.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=141725&page=440

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167696

As of the moment, the first one is the most agreed upon. I of course also have a few odd opinions, like for example, I simply cannot see why Link is sitting so low on the Tier List. Anyways, I'm not posting this to go OMG GUYS LEIK THIS IS WHOS GOOD AND WHOS NOT... this is to show you what everyone is agreeing on at the time right now. I'd like to debate it too, especially the Link placement, I just struggle to understand it.

And yes Wario is a complete buttmunch to fight, he frustrates just about as much as Meta Knight, I think he is going to hit top tier for sure.

 

[Sensai]

I'm not sure I agree with Olimar being that low on the second tier list...anyways, here's the list from Kalm's second link.

Top Tier:
Snake
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch
Marth
Falco
R.O.B.
Toon Link*

High Tier:
Ice Climbers
Wolf
Olimar
King Dedede
Pikachu
Diddy Kong
Zelda
Pit
Fox
Wario
Kirby*


Mid Tier:
Lucario
Lucas
ZSS
Donkey Kong
Ness
Luigi
Bowser
Mario

Low tier :
Peach*
Sheik
Pokemon Trainer
Yoshi
Ike
Sonic

Bottom Tier:
Link
Samus
Jigglypuff
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon

 

[theONEjanitor]

Why does everyone think Ike is low tier. And I think everyone's placing Yoshi low tier just out of tradition, he's a pretty good character now

Wario is way to low on that list, so is Dedede
and so is Ganondorf

 

[j00t]

n00b, do you have AIM or some sort of messaging program? I wanna add you.

 

[Kalm]

I actually like the 1st list better. I posted them both for debate.

Top:
Snake
Meta Knight

Upper:
Marth
Mr. Game and Watch
R.O.B.
Falco
Toon Link
Wolf

High:
Ice Climbers
King Dedede
Pikachu
Wario
Kirby
Pit
Olimar
Zelda
Donkey Kong

Mid:
Luigi
Diddy Kong
Fox
ZSS
Bowser
Lucario
Lucas
Mario
Pokemon Trainer

Low:
Yoshi
Sonic
Ness
Peach
Sheik
Ike

Bottom:
Samus
Jigglypuff
Link
Ganondorf
Captain Falcon




Oh by the way I have a couple vids up on youtube now, you can find them easyily by searching "Kalm vs". Sorry they have no sound right now, I'll have some more up later too.

 

[SK8orDIE]

jwt, check n00b's public profile. it's in there. or just keep reading: nesn00b

Gosh. The tier list question. Just believe in ur dood and he will win.

 

[Kalm]

Well, Ike is low right now because its ******** easy to gimp his recovery, and almost all of his attacks leave him open. His Bair and AAA combo, along with his Quickdraw cancel AAA, are his only safe attacks, and they get really predictable. Someone needs only to be fairly patient when fighting Ike to own him, and be ready to mess up his recovery when needed.

Now why is Link so low tier?

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Gosh. The tier list question. Just believe in ur dood and he will win.

NO! Don't believe in your character! Believe that I believe in your character!

 

[theONEjanitor]

Well, Ike is low right now because its ******** easy to gimp his recovery, and almost all of his attacks leave him open. His Bair and AAA combo, along with his Quickdraw cancel AAA, are his only safe attacks, and they get really predictable. Someone needs only to be fairly patient when fighting Ike to own him, and be ready to mess up his recovery when needed.

Now why is Link so low tier?

it doesn't matter if they are predictable, they come out so fast and have so much priority that they are safe enough. If you learn how to space, many of Ikes moves become safer like his f-air, the ultimate retreat move. His recovery is not THAT bad, people just try too hard to sweetspot the edge they keep getting gimped. just get back to the stage, you're Ike, they're not going to kill you. I almost never use Ike's Up and b. I just forward b back on the stage, no matter where I am. so they might fair me. I'm Ike i'm the fifth heaviest character in the game, and most characters fairs don't knock anyone anywhere.

his upsmash absolutely WRECKS anyone in the air. the most you can do is be tricky with your airdodge, but all you have to do is charge the upsmash and wait for them to finish airdodging.


Link is low tier because he has the worse or second worst recovery in the game. all his moves are laggy and don't give that much of a reward when you hit with them. his only regular damage kill move is d-air, which no one gets hit by. his projectiles are about as useful as they've always been except boomerang doesn't take 15% anymore. He's not bad, he's just not better than too many people making him lower tier. Link is one of my favorite characters to play though.

 

[Kalm]

Fair is a good pressure move, but you can see it coming a mile away. You can't safely shorthop it because a simple spot dodge leaves him open enough to get hit with a medium speed smash attack. If you begin charging Quickdraw the opponent can edge hog without even trying, even if they do get hit by the attack Ike still dies. Its safer to try and go above the stage with it, but if an opponent really knows Ike well they'll purposely jump in the way to either get hit or air dodge and cause him to stall and fall.

Yes Ike's attacks do have a lot of range and priority, but anyone who knows him well can counter him very easily. I'm glad you're so incredibly confident when playing Ike that you can Quickdraw no matter where you are and not even care if you get knocked back without a second jump, but I can't compete that way and actually win. Quickdraw is limited to no vertical recovery and Aether is limited to almost no horizontal recovery, when Ike loses his second jump and gets hit, even being knocked back slightly can ruin him on the spot.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Fair is a good pressure move, but you can see it coming a mile away. You can't safely shorthop it because a simple spot dodge leaves him open enough to get hit with a medium speed smash attack. If you begin charging Quickdraw the opponent can edge hog without even trying, even if they do get hit by the attack Ike still dies. Its safer to try and go above the stage with it, but if an opponent really knows Ike well they'll purposely jump in the way to either get hit or air dodge and cause him to stall and fall.

Yes Ike's attacks do have a lot of range and priority, but anyone who knows him well can counter him very easily. I'm glad you're so incredibly confident when playing Ike that you can Quickdraw no matter where you are and not even care if you get knocked back without a second jump, but I can't compete that way and actually win. Quickdraw is limited to no vertical recovery and Aether is limited to almost no horizontal recovery, when Ike loses his second jump and gets hit, even being knocked back slightly can ruin him on the spot.

you jump backwards and fair, you are out of range for being hit by pretty much any attack in the game, meanwhile hitting the opponent. You don't throw them out randomly, but its the ultimate defensive move. it's not to be used as a pressure move. Ikes too laggy to pressure the opponent. he needs to play defensively and make use of his range. approaching with fair is not a good Idea. but predicting your opponents attack with a retreating f-air is ridiculously good. and people often overestimate the landing lag of the fair, and you can get them with quick jabs when they try to punish.

You rarely have to actually grab the edge in brawl, people just choose too because its safe. in Ike's case you can just forward b onto the stage asap.
Losing your jump doesn't matter in brawl because there's no hitstun. its not like you'll get juggled or fall to your death. and you'll only take one hit, which won't kill and probably won't knock you off the stage again because A. moves in Brawl don't kill, and B. you're Ike.. Sounds like a good deal to me.
his recovery is obviously not the best, but I dont get gimped as Ike anymore than I do with any other charcter (unless i'm fighting metaknight). I get gimped with Link way way more.

 

[Kalm]

I wasn't arguing that Fair is great for anti pressure, it just sucks for an approach. And Ike is often forced to approach, especially on projectile users.
I honestly just don't feel the Quickdraw thing, I'd have to go so far as to say you had to have been fighting some people that didn't counter it correctly. Anytime I'm fighting a space critter and I even get the slightest hint they're going to try and dash back onto the stage, I immediately position myself to hit them with a killing attack when they land right where I expect them too. Now, I know Ike can change the distance of his dash, but even so once he starts charging, if the opponent is clear minded and camping it out on the ground they can begin to judge their options. Even still, you're right that it can be fairly safe as long as you can actually make it to the stage.

But seriously, have you ever actually seen someone gimp Quickdraw with an air dodge? It's so sickening it makes me want to throw up.

Anyways, sorry I'm so negative. Ike is still my solid secondary and I love playing as him. I just predict that once the metagame reaches its end Ike will be worthless, because there are so many ways to ruin him, just like with Link. Sure hope I'm wrong though.

 

[Acid Burn]

Here is a real tier lsit
1. Fox
2. Falco


3. Sheik
4. Marth
5. Peach


6. Captain Falcon
7. Ice Climbers
8. Samus
9. Dr. Mario
10. Jigglypuff
11. Mario
12. Ganondorf


13. Link
14. Luigi
15. Donkey Kong
16. Roy
17. Young Link
18. Pikachu


19. Yoshi
20. Zelda
21. Mr. Game and Watch
22. Ness
23. Bowser
24. Kirby
25. Pichu
26. Mewtwo

 

[j00t]

In response to last week's link to Scar's combo video, I give you the real video which inspired me to play Falcon (somewhat):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vziStKcg6g&feature=related

Behold. Tell me how long you can watch the video before your eyes start to bleed.

 

[Duchock]

10 seconds.

Edit: But dang. I might start rootin' for falcon... but still, no one can beat Ness.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Just edgeguard Ike with your face. He'll die.

(Or you can air-dodge right beforehand, but it's not nearly as satisfying.)

Ike players will get no sympathy from me.

He is also a good character. Very fun.

I remember what I wanted to post for again. Damage Gauge Off = Manly Mode. Real men don't fight with percentages, they FIGHT WITH THEIR HEART.

 

[ragnarock]

whats up with people with a teir list for brawl there is no teir list. NOt a real one at least.

 

[munkus beaver]

Just edgeguard Ike with your face. He'll die.

(Or you can air-dodge right beforehand, but it's not nearly as satisfying.)

Ike players will get no sympathy from me.

He is also a good character. Very fun.

I remember what I wanted to post for again. Damage Gauge Off = Manly Mode. Real men don't fight with percentages, they FIGHT WITH THEIR HEART.

That's bull****, hearts don't have thumbs.

 

[Majist]

it doesn't matter if they are predictable, they come out so fast and have so much priority that they are safe enough. If you learn how to space, many of Ikes moves become safer like his f-air, the ultimate retreat move. His recovery is not THAT bad, people just try too hard to sweetspot the edge they keep getting gimped. just get back to the stage, you're Ike, they're not going to kill you. I almost never use Ike's Up and b. I just forward b back on the stage, no matter where I am. so they might fair me. I'm Ike i'm the fifth heaviest character in the game, and most characters fairs don't knock anyone anywhere.

his upsmash absolutely WRECKS anyone in the air. the most you can do is be tricky with your airdodge, but all you have to do is charge the upsmash and wait for them to finish airdodging.


Link is low tier because he has the worse or second worst recovery in the game. all his moves are laggy and don't give that much of a reward when you hit with them. his only regular damage kill move is d-air, which no one gets hit by. his projectiles are about as useful as they've always been except boomerang doesn't take 15% anymore. He's not bad, he's just not better than too many people making him lower tier. Link is one of my favorite characters to play though.

i completely disagree with this blaspemy! Link has an arsenal of great kill moves other than dair: ftilt, uptilt, dsmash (his best imo), fsmash, his BOMBS (ya rly), UpB.

you just have to know how to use him, concerning DR and everything. I do think Link is way too low on that list. I think he's really good. I'm more confident with my Link than my Toon Link. i'm not saying that Link>TL, cuz he's not D:


And you should use Ike's UpB! it's really really hard for people to edgehog him, unless they time the invincibility frames they get upon grabbing the ledge, which i can do. right Kalm?

it's also good for catching people off-guard in the air, next to the ledge, etc.

I do agree with you that Ike is too low on the list. I simply believe that there hasn't been someone who can shine through with him yet. Like Munkus said earlier, it'll be 2 or 3 years until an accurate tier list is created.

oh, and Link's recovery is pretty bad. i mean geez, why would they make his UpB worse? It's LINK for crying out loud!! it's not like he had a whole lot to begin with!

 

[munkus beaver]

I use the Up-B more than I use the side-B to recover, because gimping an ike that likes to use quick draw is as easy as pie.

 

[Majist]

In response to last week's link to Scar's combo video, I give you the real video which inspired me to play Falcon (somewhat):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vziStKcg6g&feature=related

Behold. Tell me how long you can watch the video before your eyes start to bleed.

oh my sweet d i c k, there are knees everywhere!!! my god, he makes it look so easy

i loved the moonwalk to stagespike. soooo smexy.

edit: facking filter!! *shakes fist

 

[Kalm]

Majist I have 2 videos of our Ike dittos up, check them out. They were both pretty cruel I think lol, but they're probably the most entertaining videos I have right now because it just looks so cool watching to good Ike's fight.

And yes I seriously think Link should be higher, and I seriously think Ike is way to easy to ruin. I mean, Link has a lot of ways to counter edge guarders, bombs boomerangs and arrows oh my!

Also, I'm trying to get good Toon Link, I need someone to practice with. Someone FIGHT ME!!!

 

[Duchock]

FIGHT ME!!!

^ ^

Also, I plan on going all out in the next tournament I'm going to.

If you don't know what I mean, you will... eventually.

 

[Kalm]

It means he going to use Meta Knight and link every button to use his Dsmash!

yay!

 

[Majist]

^ ^

Also, I plan on going all out in the next tournament I'm going to.

If you don't know what I mean, you will... sexually.

fixed. sexually. heyo!!

 

[munkus beaver]

Kalm, are you ready to fight?