Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[NES n00b]

What is too fast fingers nonsense? lol and how did this come up asking someone to go to a melee tourney. >_>

I am not technical in any way and do well in Brawl and Melee. No johns.

 

[j00t]

Brawl is much deeper in terms of tactical thinking than melee. You can't rely on quick fingers to survive a good brawl match.

You also have a lot more time to think about what your goals are in a Brawl match. Being able to do on-the-fly thinking in Melee was an important factor in determining the great players from the good players. This also supports the idea of less-skill-required-to-be-good-at-Brawl.

And how is Brawl deeper than Melee in terms of tactical thinking? I just don't see it. Care to elaborate? Compared to Melee, you are limited in what you are actually able to do given any situation. So I just don't see how it's deeper.

EDIT: What, n00b? Didn't understand that. And you are technically consistent. You get all your l-cancels and can perform combos very well from what I understand. You may not have "flashy" tech skill, but you are consistent with what you can do, and that makes you a technical player.

 

[NES n00b]

You also have a lot more time to think about what your goals are in a Brawl match. Being able to do on-the-fly thinking in Melee was an important factor in determining the great players from the good players.

And how is Brawl deeper than Melee in terms of tactical thinking? I just don't see it. Care to elaborate?

EDIT: What, n00b? Didn't understand that.

Of course you wouldn't. >_>

I think the games' competitiveness should be decided on how consitently I win in both of them. This is the true test.

Edit: **** that ****, I couldn't even waveshine Iori last time I played him. I have weaksauce techskill. Best I know how to do is abuse some Falcon combos.

Edit: **** WFC isn't working. I can't join any games even if I connect to the servers.

 

[j00t]

Of course you wouldn't. >_>

I think the games' competitiveness should be decided on how consitently I win in both of them. This is the true test.

Edit: **** that ****, I couldn't even waveshine Iori last time I played him. I have weaksauce techskill. Best I know how to do is abuse some Falcon combos.

Are you implying something, boy? Fox only, no items, final destination, $10k money match. I'll lose cause you're too good, but I must fight for my honor.

 

[NES n00b]

Are you implying something, boy? Fox only, no items, final destination, $10k money match. I'll lose cause you're too good, but I must fight for my honor.

Hell yeah, real competition here. 10,000 dollars is alot .......or not for honor.,.

 

[munkus beaver]

You also have a lot more time to think about what your goals are in a Brawl match. Being able to do on-the-fly thinking in Melee was an important factor in determining the great players from the good players. This also supports the idea of less-skill-required-to-be-good-at-Brawl.

And how is Brawl deeper than Melee in terms of tactical thinking? I just don't see it. Care to elaborate? Compared to Melee, you are limited in what you are actually able to do given any situation. So I just don't see how it's deeper.

EDIT: What, n00b? Didn't understand that. And you are technically consistent. You get all your l-cancels and can perform combos very well from what I understand. You may not have "flashy" tech skill, but you are consistent with what you can do, and that makes you a technical player.

You have to constantly be aware of your own DR against your opponent, knowing when it's appropriate to use which move. After the first shot, the knockback of your move drops drastically, so if you mistjudge your killing move, you have a long, uphill struggle.

There's also the case that the opponent can react to just about everything that you do, being a defensive game. It requires more thinking about spacing and when it's appropriate to attack (especially so since DR limits which moves you should do in situations).

A lot of Melee is muscle memory and what I call 'skill switches.' L-canceling is a skill-switch. It's something that doesn't actually add depth to the game, it's something you want to do at every instance possible. You do it well, the switch is on. You don't, the switch is off. It doesn't make you more skillful at the game, just more technical.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

And so people learn to light shield or sidestep to throw off their opponent's l-cancel timing. I agree that Melee is a rather technically demanding game, but the strategy that exists beyond that is still infinitely better than what exists in Brawl.

If you took away all the combos in Melee, and turned it into Brawl's "get a hit - game resets - get a hit - game resets", it would STILL be better because the approach and defense game simply has more options, is more fast paced, is more interesting to perform and watch, and is simply more fun. I'd rather dash dance/wavedash/platform waveland/platform drop aerial/fake platform drop aerial/empty short hop/pivot/etc around the level trying to force or find an opening than simply... um... what are your movement options in Brawl, again? Walk towards your opponent and hope they trip?

EDIT: That's not to say that Brawl's approach game (also known as Brawl's entire game) is completely figured out, or anywhere near. When was shffling a dair out of shield as Marth when an opponent would land behind you first discovered in Melee, it's only been a year or so. New discoveries can and will happen all the time, but the fact remains that the inherent tools for mixing up your approach/retreat/defense in Brawl are HEAVILY limited, and the game suffers for that.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm gonna have to side with Chad on this one. He hit the nail on the head by saying that the lack of options you have at your disposal makes for an increasingly defensive metagame.

Quite true. No one is arguing this. Still, it's the beginning of the game's life; Melee's early life didn't have an offensively-based metagame, either. We'll learn more tactics, both offensive and defensive.

The gripes I have with Brawl is this: 1) The increased luck factor that is existant in this game, and 2) The decreasing amount of skill it takes to be good at this game. Bad game design choices such as tripping (The increased luck factor), multiple airdodges (decreased skill), character design (I.e. imbalance), superarmor for all grabs in the game (Although very small amounts of frames, it is still an annoyance) and the decreased effectiveness of edgeguarding also make me favor and appreciate Melee more. As I just told Sunrise, I can't say i'd feel too proud of myself if I was one of the best at Brawl. Actually, I feel a lot better with my skill in Melee than I do in Brawl (Even though i'm better at Brawl, lulz).

Tripping is the stupidest thing ever. I hate Sakurai.

I like the new air-dodge mechanic, though. I consider it another thing to read; bait an airdodge and hit them with a Smash attack or late aerial. Another guessing game, which fighting games are generally based off of in one way or many.

Edgeguarding is also different, and I rather like the new system for that, as well. Thing is, something like a well-timed Marth F-Smash used to be perfectly fine for edgeguarding; it effectively killed professional players half the time, even. You didn't have to risk anything by doing that. With increased recovery abilities and auto-sweetspotting edges, you are forced to chase down your opponent, meet him halfway, and attempt to hit him again. Certain characters excel at it (Meta Knight and Wario, for instance), while some don't have it as easily. Risk and reward is ever-present; more mindgames and fighting is involved, should you choose to try (and you should!). Footstool jumping, while normally a minor inconvenience, can actually effectively combat certain recovering characters as well (poor Bowser). It might seem impossible, but you probably have more options at your disposal than you think if you, err...think.

Super-armor on grabs is purely subjective to opinion. It's only after you've actually been grabbed, so it's not like attempting to grab is an auto-flinchless move. I like it when I'm not fighting Dedede, personally. I can see why others may not like it as much, however. Throws were nerfed as a result of the revamped combo system, so I'm glad to see that it got this boost, at least.

If it weren't for the fact that Brawl takes less skill and involves more luck, then i'd actually feel more comfortable with saying that it is a different game. It's different for sure, but in a negative way. However, things may change in the future. If by some miraculous chance someone discovers that you can control tripping, then there'd be a glimmer of hope for me. But as of right now, I heavily favor Melee over Brawl.

Brawl certainly involves more luck, but I say that the only amount of skill that is taken away significantly is technical skill, which I think shouldn't be valued as much as mindgames/psychological nuances of the game. Maybe it's because I'm too lazy to practice how to do everything just right in Melee (that's why I wasn't good at it, XD), but I'm glad that the muscle memory factor is toned down, and that I win because of my head rather than my fast fingers.

Comparing Smash and its mechanics to a 2D fighter to support the idea that Brawl is a "different game" from Melee is illogical because they are different genres entirely, and as I said before, come from different development standpoints entirely.

Smash is essentially a 2D fighter. It's very open-ended, but the concept is more-or-less the same.

 

[Midguy]

Oh god.... melee vs. brawl discussions. This is soooooooo last month.

 

[j00t]

Quite true. No one is arguing this. Still, it's the beginning of the game's life; Melee's early life didn't have an offensively-based metagame, either. We'll learn more tactics, both offensive and defensive.



Tripping is the stupidest thing ever. I hate Sakurai.

I like the new air-dodge mechanic, though. I consider it another thing to read; bait an airdodge and hit them with a Smash attack or late aerial. Another guessing game, which fighting games are generally based off of in one way or many.

Hmm, that's somewhat true. I've never really thought of it that way.

Edgeguarding is also different, and I rather like the new system for that, as well. Thing is, something like a well-timed Marth F-Smash used to be perfectly fine for edgeguarding; it effectively killed professional players half the time, even. You didn't have to risk anything by doing that. With increased recovery abilities and auto-sweetspotting edges, you are forced to chase down your opponent, meet him halfway, and attempt to hit him again. Certain characters excel at it (Meta Knight and Wario, for instance), while some don't have it as easily. Risk and reward is ever-present; more mindgames and fighting is involved, should you choose to try (and you should!). Footstool jumping, while normally a minor inconvenience, can actually effectively combat certain recovering characters as well (poor Bowser). It might seem impossible, but you probably have more options at your disposal than you think if you, err...think.

This sounds fine on paper, but with the experiences i've had so far, everyone is always going to make it back to the stage unless they die off the top or the side. Even if characters can play off the edge well, the recovering opponent will most likely airdodge anyways - even if you do predict and punish his airdodge, he'll most likely be able to recover again due to the floatiness that everyone posesses now. Being able to predict your opponent's recovery has diminished to nothingness because of this. I have yet to see a successful edgehog in this game (Excluding tether recovery characters).

Super-armor on grabs is purely subjective to opinion. It's only after you've actually been grabbed, so it's not like attempting to grab is an auto-flinchless move. I like it when I'm not fighting Dedede, personally. I can see why others may not like it as much, however. Throws were nerfed as a result of the revamped combo system, so I'm glad to see that it got this boost, at least.

I was pretty sure that on the very few remaining frames before the grab, you possess superarmor. It always irritated me when I would use a Wario f-smash, hit the opponent, and still get grabbed out of it. Made me gnash my teeth and swallow the bits that resulted from the gnashing.

Brawl certainly involves more luck, but I say that the only amount of skill that is taken away significantly is technical skill, which I think shouldn't be valued as much as mindgames/psychological nuances of the game. Maybe it's because I'm too lazy to practice how to do everything just right in Melee (that's why I wasn't good at it, XD), but I'm glad that the muscle memory factor is toned down, and that I win because of my head rather than my fast fingers.

Although technical skill isn't valued as much as mindgames and such, it is still skill nonetheless - taking this away is still taking away the skill needed for the new game. There's nothing wrong with "winning because of your head," but winning with fast fingers isn't necessarily a bad thing either.

Smash is essentially a 2D fighter. It's very open-ended, but the concept is more-or-less the same.

Responses in bold. Too lazy to separate everything into distinct quotes

 

[-Chad-]

I wasn't aware that crouch canceling and wave dashing were what made smash a great game to begin with.

Janitor made very good points that I don't need to repeat.

They didn't, they just helped make it better by adding more options for your character to have at any given point in a match.

All Janitor said was that it's a different game, and well duh of course it is. Being different doesn't make it exempt from being a bad game not worthy of being the next in the Smash series.

There's no satisfaction in brawl besides the winning for me. I don't get a thrill off of spamming moves and camping. I like being able to do something very demanding and it work, and then feel awesome about it. I like losing and feeling like "Man he's really good, I have a lot more to learn", not "That was boring as hell.". If you see me playing Brawl, it'll most likely be because I want to win money, not because I want to have fun.

 

[Majist]

you all have made great points and suggestions about the differences between Brawl and Melee. but what no one has proven is which game is better. I believe both games are great in their own right. The fact is that we pretty much have a Smash game for everyone now. It's just personal preference. I loved playing the fast-paced, combo-crazy, technical Melee. I never got very good at it, but I can definitely appreciate how you can always improve yourself, regarding technique and creativity with your movements and attacks.

But Brawl's a great game too, even competitively. I've had some insanely intense matches, not because of how many attacks were flying back and forth, but because of the reactions of myself and my opponents, trying to anticipate each other, coming so close to landing that final blow or being ko'd. Melee never provided me with a fight that had me gritting my teeth. You know when someone has you beat in Melee, at least I do. You can see it coming a mile away, and it happens so fast. You never really have to change your playstyle; you can use the same combination of moves and motions whether your opponent is at 20% or 80%. Of course you'll have to tweak things up a bit, but you know what i mean.

But with Brawl, anything can happen up until the last second, and you absolutely must change your game to effectively whittle down your opponent, thanks to DR (which IMO is a good thing). I've had matches where my opponent would be on his last stock at 70% and i would have all 3 stocks, and he would come back and win the match, and vice versa. I'm not saying that doesn't happen in Melee, don't get me wrong. But as far as the way Brawl constantly keeps you thinking and guessing, there's no greater intensity on the mind. Luring in your opponent is a huge concept. Plus, after you get a KO, your opponent essentially has the upperhand due to reset DR. You have to change your approach or get burned.

I agree that Brawl doesn't require as much hand-eye coordination to play, but that doesn't make it inferior. The luck factor(SAF in grabs & tripping) is ******** though, and that does frustrate me to the point where i have to put it down for a while. Characters are more difficult to control for me than in Melee.

My point is that both games have great attributes and faults, and I play them both. You can say which one you like more over the other, but I don't think anyone can say if one is "better" than the other. Your reasons and logic are all biased when you make this claim.

 

[NES n00b]

I think the games' competitiveness should be decided on how consitently I win in both of them. This is the true test.

Guys, I just came up with the perfect solution to determine which smash is better and you all ignore me. Big meanies. There is definitely no doubt that fully developed metagame is more than new metagame at least. On that note, Melee is alot more complex in everything.

Edit: Chad is evil. He does it for the monies. D=

 

[j00t]

Guys, I just came up with the perfect solution to determine which smash is better and you all ignore me. Big meanies. There is definitely no doubt that fully developed metagame is more than new metagame at least. On that note, Melee is alot more complex in everything.

Edit: Chad is evil. He does it for the monies. D=

Get online noob and FIGHT ME. With your mains, btw.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Chad is evil. He does it for the monies. D=

I don't think Chad does it at all, which makes me rather sad.

That's life, though. To each their own...

 

[NES n00b]

Get online noob and FIGHT ME. With your mains, btw.

K, my internet has been acting funny (or WFC don't know which). I will be there in 15 minutes.
And wtf is a main in Brawl? Seriously

 

[-Chad-]

I don't think Chad does it at all, which makes me rather sad.

That's life, though. To each their own...

I really wanted to like Brawl : ( I really did. I still <3 Reflex, in Melee and in Brawl because you make Brawl amazing to watch.

 

[j00t]

Balls, the connection died, n00b. Oh well, we still had some good friendlies..

 

[coach]

I still <3 Reflex, in Melee and in Brawl because you make Brawl amazing to watch.

This. You really do make it amazing to watch reflex.

 

[Quez256]

Moogle, gonna need a character update to Metaknight/Dedede/Marth/Falco.
Thanks! ^_^

 

[Acid Burn]

I miss Melee

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I really wanted to like Brawl : ( I really did. I still <3 Reflex, in Melee and in Brawl because you make Brawl amazing to watch.

This. You really do make it amazing to watch reflex.

Thanks for that. I try to have as much fun as possible while doing anything at all.

If When I make my combo video, I'm going to have to include my own reactions, XD.

 

[theONEjanitor]

for some reason people don't admit that winning in Melee required pressing buttons very fast and accurately. There were no mindgames required. They were POSSIBLE, but not required to be good.

Melee: You are Falcon, and you and your opponents are vying for position. You dash dance, moonwalk, and wavedash back and forth with no real rhyme or reason, just hoping you can draw your opponent into making a mistake. They do, you d-air, nair, grab, d-throw, up-air, up-air, knee, KOing your opponent. Why this sequence of moves? Because you memorized it and know it works and have practiced it so you can pull it off flawlessly. No thinking was involved in that entire exchange.

Brawl: You are, I dunno, Diddy. You and your opponents are vying for position and trying to draw opponents off guard, its not as slidy and cool-looking as Melee, but its possible. You see an opponent, you dash attack, you know this pops them into the air. You go for a b-air, but they air dodge. had you considered that they might airdodge and waited, you could have done your bair a second later and landed the hit, you get hit yourself. Later in the match a similar situation arises, you plan to wait for your opponent to air dodge this time, but your opponent predicted you would do so and f-airs you as soon as possible.
more thinking.

Two different games, two different methods of winning, two different measures of skill neither is "more suitable" for competition.

Although technical skill isn't valued as much as mindgames and such, it is still skill nonetheless - taking this away is still taking away the skill needed for the new game. There's nothing wrong with "winning because of your head," but winning with fast fingers isn't necessarily a bad thing either.

Exactly. Different games have different measures of skill. Getting upset because an entirely different game (regardless of it they are in the same series) doesn't require the same techniques is the same as asking why you can't get Kinged in Chess.

 

[-Chad-]

for some reason people don't admit that winning in Melee required pressing buttons very fast and accurately. There were no mindgames required. They were POSSIBLE, but not required to be good.

Melee: You are Falcon, and you and your opponents are vying for position. You dash dance, moonwalk, and wavedash back and forth with no real rhyme or reason, just hoping you can draw your opponent into making a mistake. They do, you d-air, nair, grab, d-throw, up-air, up-air, knee, KOing your opponent. Why this sequence of moves? Because you memorized it and know it works and have practiced it so you can pull it off flawlessly. No thinking was involved in that entire exchange.

If this is what you think, then you were never good at Melee and you fail to understand what made a player good.

 

[theONEjanitor]

Well I'm not very good at Melee, but i've never lost a match because I was "outthought", I lose because I can't keep up with someone else's fast fingers and accurate button presses or because I mess up or have bad reflexes, leading to 50% damage combos in retalliation. i' very rarely felt like "oh he really tricked me there."
In contrast, I feel that way almost everytime I get hit at all in Brawl. (unless i'm fighting metaknight lulz)

 

[-Chad-]

Well I'm not very good at Melee, but i've never lost a match because I was "outthought", I lose because I can't keep up with someone else's fast fingers and accurate button presses or because I mess up or have bad reflexes, leading to 50% damage combos in retalliation. i' very rarely felt like "oh he really tricked me there."
In contrast, I feel that way almost everytime I get hit at all in Brawl. (unless i'm fighting metaknight lulz)

Because most players do not need to out think someone who can't keep up in the first place, they can just throw out attacks all day long and win. At the very highest level of play, being able to out think your opponent is as important as being able to control your character perfectly (as perfect as humans can, not talking perfect control).

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

T1J - Ever wonder why I usually beat you, but Iori usually 4stocks you? Hint: It's not tech skill.

 

[munkus beaver]

I've been beaten more than my fair share of times because I had less technical skill than my opponent, regardless of whether they had better mindgames and strategy.

 

[Midguy]

I have fat slow fingers and never put the time into learning how to do all that zany stuff in melee. Because of that, I had no shot against someone like Moogle.

Getting 4 stocked by people much better than me isn't as fun as beating people and/or having closer matches as I do in Brawl so I enjoy it more. I enjoyed the gameplay (at my level) in melee as much as I do in Brawl, but since I wasn't some kind of tricky finger god in melee, I welcome Brawl with open arms and don't plan on looking back. What makes you good in Brawl were also part of what makes you good in Melee, but because of the changes, the importance of those things were amplified. Steve Nash is one of the best basketball players out there, but if one day they changed the criteria for what makes a good basketball player and said "Assists mean nothing, and we're just looking at how many points you score a game from now on," then he wouldn't be considered any more MVP awards.

It really is simply 2 different games, and I think comparing the two is an argument that ultimately leads nowhere.

 

[-Chad-]

I've been beaten more than my fair share of times because I had less technical skill than my opponent, regardless of whether they had better mindgames and strategy.

....and?

That sounds completely normal..? It's not like you can expect to just win when you're not as good as your opponent.

Did you mean to put "whether or not..."?

If you're saying that tech skill is ALL that made someone good at Melee, then by that logic Reflex should have never been good at Melee playing primarily Bowser because Bowser is not a very technically demanding character.

 

[Acid Burn]

Tech skill smek-skill I will take you all (Brawl) any day. Melee on the other hand. I cant really say anything about that. Melee=tech, Brawl=Metaknight

 

[munkus beaver]

I'm not saying that is is all that made someone good, that's a fallacy. It did put a skill-cap on the game, and I didn't like the notion of sitting in training mode practicing for hours to get down the technical aspects, especially with my arthritis.

I prefer brawl and I do take offense when it's called a backwards progression for the series. I welcome the removal of technical mastery as a requirement for the higher levels of play, and I enjoy having to think as I play about which moves to use to properly utilize them in the face of DR.

 

[SK8orDIE]

That's quite a discussion, gentlemen. My own feelings of Brawl versus Melee are mixed and my main concern is the threat of division hurting our little community. The truth is that change is the only constant in life and we are advised to embrace it. Melee, a fantastic game, is the top-selling fighting game of all time (unless you count all the different variants of Street Fighter II) at 7 million copies world-wide. Brawl has already sold over two-thirds that amount (4.8 million) in under six months, which is incredible considering that Europe doesn't even have the game yet. I think it's safe to say that Brawl, despite it's flaws, is here to stay. How these numbers affect the competitive community isn't quite as straightforward. We will definitely see some new blood, which is good, and I think any community that doesn't grow is already digging it's own grave. On the other hand, considering that Nintendo products are particularly susceptible to renaissance and that these are genuinely good games, I don't think that Melee or even Smash 64 will ever truly disappear.

So here are a few personal thoughts I have about Brawl:

As much as I dislike tripping, I still find it to be a less severe form of luck than, say, spawning in front of a guy with a rocket launcher in some FPS. I can think of a number of competitive games where random chance has a prominent role in gameplay. Poker, anyone? Surely there is room for skill in poker. Is tripping really more annoying than going all-in with three Kings only to find that the other guy gets a straight on the river?

Also, I feel that as much as I enjoy Melee, some of the advanced techniques are far too esoteric and too difficult to execute and that this has served to widen the gap between the casual and the competitive Smasher. I feel that the nature of the Smash control scheme was designed to emphasize the usage of moves, rather than the mechanics of executing moves. I remember being perplexed by the proposition that in Smash, you don't have to memorize quarter circle forward + High Punch to throw a fireball. I remember how this approach let me skip past learning how to execute moves and go straight into understanding their applications, which is where I thought skill at Smash was supposed to originate. Muscle memory doesn't do it for me.

Finally, I feel that seven years spent on one game is plenty. I've been ready for a change of scenery for some time and Brawl has, at the very least, given us that much. It has leveled the playing field and forced us all to start at the beginning. For the first time in a long time, everything old is new again and there is the promise of the joys of discovery. For this alone, I am grateful.

 

[munkus beaver]

That's quite a discussion, gentlemen. My own feelings of Brawl versus Melee are mixed and my main concern is the threat of division hurting our little community. The truth is that change is the only constant in life and we are advised to embrace it. Melee, a fantastic game, is the top-selling fighting game of all time (unless you count all the different variants of Street Fighter II) at 7 million copies world-wide. Brawl has already sold over two-thirds that amount (4.8 million) in under six months, which is incredible considering that Europe doesn't even have the game yet. I think it's safe to say that Brawl, despite it's flaws, is here to stay. How these numbers affect the competitive community isn't quite as straightforward. We will definitely see some new blood, which is good, and I think any community that doesn't grow is already digging it's own grave. On the other hand, considering that Nintendo products are particularly susceptible to renaissance and that these are genuinely good games, I don't think that Melee or even Smash 64 will ever truly disappear.

So here are a few personal thoughts I have about Brawl:

As much as I dislike tripping, I still find it to be a less severe form of luck than, say, spawning in front of a guy with a rocket launcher in some FPS. I can think of a number of competitive games where random chance has a prominent role in gameplay. Poker, anyone? Surely there is room for skill in poker. Is tripping really more annoying than going all-in with three Kings only to find that the other guy gets a straight on the river?

Also, I feel that as much as I enjoy Melee, some of the advanced techniques are far too esoteric and too difficult to execute and that this has served to widen the gap between the casual and the competitive Smasher. I feel that the nature of the Smash control scheme was designed to emphasize the usage of moves, rather than the mechanics of executing moves. I remember being perplexed by the proposition that in Smash, you don't have to memorize quarter circle forward + High Punch to throw a fireball. I remember how this approach let me skip past learning how to execute moves and go straight into understanding their applications, which is where I thought skill at Smash was supposed to originate. Muscle memory doesn't do it for me.

Finally, I feel that seven years spent on one game is plenty. I've been ready for a change of scenery for some time and Brawl has, at the very least, given us that much. It has leveled the playing field and forced us all to start at the beginning. For the first time in a long time, everything old is new again and there is the promise of the joys of discovery. For this alone, I am grateful.

I find that to be amazing, because that was the original draw to smash bros. for me too.

 

[-Chad-]

I'm not saying that is is all that made someone good, that's a fallacy. It did put a skill-cap on the game, and I didn't like the notion of sitting in training mode practicing for hours to get down the technical aspects, especially with my arthritis.

I prefer brawl and I do take offense when it's called a backwards progression for the series. I welcome the removal of technical mastery as a requirement for the higher levels of play, and I enjoy having to think as I play about which moves to use to properly utilize them in the face of DR.

Uh...

Having the addition of tech skill combined with the ability to out think your opponent didn't add a skill cap, it gave a player the ability to be that much better. It's a skill cap if you don't want to put forth the effort to get better.

But if you prefer Brawl because it doesn't take as much work to be good, then that's fine, it's just rediculous to say that Melee doesn't require much thinking to be good at.

 

[munkus beaver]

I didn't say that melee didn't require thinking, no strawmans! I just contend that brawl is more of thinking game.

 

[SK8orDIE]

Mostly unrelated to this thread, but I think "no johns" is the most obnoxiously trite phrase on this site. Risk being lame; use it at your own peril.

 

[munkus beaver]

It's smash slang for No *****ing though!

 

[coach]

I know someone named John.

 

[munkus beaver]

I know someone named John.

Well, we can have one...