Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[Zonderion]

Chameleon Twist was a great esport.

 

[Mahgnittoc]

Jake I won baby

 

[.Hook]

Only if I get to play as Waluigi

 

[Jake The Preacher]

Jake I won baby

My booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooy

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

Top Games Results:
Smash for Wii U
Melee
Project M

 

[Saki-]

Pulling out that Super Luck trait to get me through Losers. Now to try and genuinely outplay the competition next weekend.

 

[*Cam*]

Oh sure, Josh starts winning tournaments now that I switch away from Bowser Jr. *the salt*

 

[SuperFangChan]

Top Games Results:
Smash for Wii U
Melee
Project M

My Fang brethren represent lol

I might go to the next one of these. That bracket looks free.

 

[Mahgnittoc]

To be fair John, I only used Jr. to beat people who don't k ow how to play vs him

 

[Keet]

Okay so since Tasya made some power rankings and certain people began complaining about their respective ranks it got me to thinking how we can legitimately rank the community without everyone thinking they deserve a higher rank; so I'm going to do a bit of research and thinking and try to come up with some kind of formula that takes into account placing in a tournament, number of entrants, and hopefully the skill level of the entrants to the tournament. I'll post here whenever I come up with something to see what you guys think, and please if you guys have any ideas post them. I think it'd do nothing but help the scene to have some legitimate power rankings.

 

[MasterIcarus7 (SHADE)]

Okay so since Tasya made some power rankings and certain people began complaining about their respective ranks it got me to thinking how we can legitimately rank the community without everyone thinking they deserve a higher rank; so I'm going to do a bit of research and thinking and try to come up with some kind of formula that takes into account placing in a tournament, number of entrants, and hopefully the skill level of the entrants to the tournament. I'll post here whenever I come up with something to see what you guys think, and please if you guys have any ideas post them. I think it'd do nothing but help the scene to have some legitimate power rankings.

I already tried that, it didn't work -_-

 

[Shenanigan]

Okay so since Tasya made some power rankings and certain people began complaining about their respective ranks it got me to thinking how we can legitimately rank the community without everyone thinking they deserve a higher rank; so I'm going to do a bit of research and thinking and try to come up with some kind of formula that takes into account placing in a tournament, number of entrants, and hopefully the skill level of the entrants to the tournament. I'll post here whenever I come up with something to see what you guys think, and please if you guys have any ideas post them. I think it'd do nothing but help the scene to have some legitimate power rankings.

I already tried that, it didn't work -_-

There's no "equation" or "formula" for a perfect power ranking. Everyone is always going to think they deserved to be ranked higher than they are. If someone doesn't like their ranking, it's their job to go out and prove they're better than the people above them.

 

[theONEjanitor]

if you want a mathematical ranking system, the only logical approach is an ELO style ranking. This is based directly on who you won or lost to. it ignores tournament placings and opinions, its based directly on individual matches, so it doesn't matter if you attend some 8 man local or a national, just depends on who you beat/lose to. and it also rewards people who attend tournaments more often than others (unless they always lose). can't really be argued with since it's math and not subjective to what event you went to. the number of entrants in a tournament doesn't matter if the tournament is filled with scrubs. it's an irrelevant factor.

 

[Keet]

if you want a mathematical ranking system, the only logical approach is an ELO style ranking. This is based directly on who you won or lost to. it ignores tournament placings and opinions, its based directly on individual matches, so it doesn't matter if you attend some 8 man local or a national, just depends on who you beat/lose to. and it also rewards people who attend tournaments more often than others.

Good to know I'll look into that then.

There's no "equation" or "formula" for a perfect power ranking. Everyone is always going to think they deserved to be ranked higher than they are. If someone doesn't like their ranking, it's their job to go out and prove they're better than the people above them.

I'm by no means saying the rankings will be perfect. But rankings based on something concrete other than just opinion or personal conjecture are unquestionably stronger because there is absolutely no bias involved. That's also why I didn't find a formula or create rankings before posting here, I'd love to hear everyone's opinions on this and if there are any issues someone spots it'd be nice to weed them out before any rankings are created.

 

[theONEjanitor]

what tournaments would be considered for a potential PR list? I can go through it and post the results to give you an idea of how it works

the only potential issue with this kind of system is intangibles, like for example if Reflex breaks his controller halfway through grand finals and has to forfeit, he still loses Elo whether or not he is actually the better player. But over time I believe this balances out.

 

[Saki-]

There will always be complaints, but I'm down for a point system. If you need any help lemme know and until then I'll try and get one done from my method too.

 

[Keet]

what tournaments would be considered for a potential PR list? I can go through it and post the results to give you an idea of how it works

That's a good question. Would it be easier to stick to tournaments only in Alabama, only in the southeast, or nationwide? While most players don't travel out of the southeast, some (Reflex) go to nationals and take sets off of top tier players.

I would say a safe bet to practice the ranking system on would be the last HASL event, though. Here's the bracket link: http://challonge.com/hasl11sm4sh

 

[Saki-]

I feel that any event that AL players are present at should count. While some like to have a PR that shows who is best against each other, I think a list of who is best in state would be a bigger accomplishment.

 

[MasterIcarus7 (SHADE)]

If possible, I would like to work on these rankings. I feel a major point we should consider is results as well. I think we should try having 2 sets of rankings, a results ranking for basic seeding, and an ELO ranking for individual matches. This would be much easier and accurate for seeding I a larger tournament, such as HASL, where as you could choose either and still get accurate rankings in small brackets. But that's just my two cents.

 

[Saki-]

If possible, I would like to work on these rankings. I feel a major point we should consider is results as well. I think we should try having 2 sets of rankings, a results ranking for basic seeding, and an ELO ranking for individual matches. This would be much easier and accurate for seeding I a larger tournament, such as HASL, where as you could choose either and still get accurate rankings in small brackets. But that's just my two cents.

HASL is pretty set on having a seeding up to 10 and leaving the rest random I thought?

 

[powergamer]

Just do a tier list pr and be done with it

 

[Jake The Preacher]

^ Also why are we having talk about tier lists and rankings when we know that @ Child Star is the very best?

 

[Sweaters]

It's pretty easy to seed tournaments since Alabama's scene is not extremely big so if you've been to multiple tournaments you know who the good players are, and even if you only know a few good players in the area you can ask them for assistance in seeding.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

@ Sweaters =Not for top ten seeding

 

[MasterIcarus7 (SHADE)]

@ Sweaters =Not for top ten seeding

He seeded me REALLY high at Bham Brawl, higher than PhantomThief, so I had to face Kendo early in bracket

 

[Shenanigan]

@ Sweaters =Not for top ten seeding

Top ten seeding is easy though

 

[Jake The Preacher]

@ Sweaters Sucks

 

[.Hook]

He seeded me REALLY high at Bham Brawl, higher than PhantomThief, so I had to face Kendo early in bracket

That means you were seeded low, right?
(I kinda don't quiiiite know how seeding works past round 1)

 

[MasterIcarus7 (SHADE)]

That means you were seeded low, right?
(I kinda don't quiiiite know how seeding works past round 1)

No, first round I played against a player who had never been to a tourney before. 2nd round is where the better players converge, who got seeded at similar levels. PhantomThief played some kid who didn't own PM, and I played Kendo. I got a bye in Melee tho, so not all was bad

 

[Sweaters]

That means you were seeded low, right?
(I kinda don't quiiiite know how seeding works past round 1)

You are right since he played Kendo, who was seeded first, early he was seeded extremely low.

 

[Shenanigan]

He seeded me REALLY high at Bham Brawl, higher than PhantomThief, so I had to face Kendo early in bracket

That's not how brackets work, you got seeded 32nd, which is pretty low

That means you were seeded low, right?
(I kinda don't quiiiite know how seeding works past round 1)

Basically the highest and lowest seeds are matched up with each other (so in the round of 32, 1 plays 32, 2 plays 31, 3 plays 30, and so on). Then in the next round the process repeats (In the round of 16, 1 plays 16, 2 play 15, 3 plays 14, and so on)

 

[.Hook]

Yeah see that's what I figured.

 

[MasterIcarus7 (SHADE)]

That's not how brackets work, you got seeded 32nd, which is pretty low

Basically the highest and lowest seeds are matched up with each other (so in the round of 32, 1 plays 32, 2 plays 31, 3 plays 30, and so on). Then in the next round the process repeats (In the round of 16, 1 plays 16, 2 play 15, 3 plays 14, and so on)

Except is was a 47 person bracket. And I played him second round.

Does anyone want to play Rocket League

 

[Sweaters]

I played him in the round of 16

I just checked you played him round two, that means in round one you and whoever you were playing were two of the lowest seeds.

 

[rolfcopter]

sup guys

power rankings are cool and all but if u want to be the best u should just beat everyone

idk why u would care about your ranking unless u sucked

if ur gonna win the tournament ur seeding shouldnt matter

 

[Child Star]

sup guys

power rankings are cool and all but if u want to be the best u should just beat everyone

idk why u would care about your ranking unless u sucked

if ur gonna win the tournament ur seeding shouldnt matter

It helps keep you motivated when youre not winning tournaments.

 

[Mahgnittoc]

Honestly, I think we should go off of knowledge we have of the players. Like for the best representation of skill we should go off of tourney placements and who you beat to get there. Like I won a tourney at Press Start that had 0 good players there and that shouldn't account for anything. But getting first yesterday at Gardendale and beating people like Tasya, Arkaizer, and others should make a difference. A straight ELO system is good when there is a very large amount of players but we have a pool of about 100 players and I'll say I'd only think less than 20 people are relevant and should be considered for PR. The other people start to become a factor when say we have two people we want to put at #8 and they beat each other, but then we look and see which randoms beat them.

 

[Keet]

idk why u would care about your ranking unless u sucked

Wut

 

[Mahgnittoc]

Also, MasterIcarus, you literally just took tourney placements and assigned points. That's bad for a rankings list because that factors in going to a lot of tournies and doesn't factor in who is there.

And for people who are going to complain about their spots, tell them to go to tournies and stop losing to people if they think they're so good. Seriously, we have a decent pool of people here in Alabama and I'm tired of us not having PRs because we don't want to hurt peoples feelings. Let's make a damn list and when someone isn't on their tell them to git gud.

 

[Keet]

Also, MasterIcarus, you literally just took tourney placements and assigned points. That's bad for a rankings list because that factors in going to a lot of tournies and doesn't factor in who is there.

And for people who are going to complain about their spots, tell them to go to tournies and stop losing to people if they think they're so good. Seriously, we have a decent pool of people here in Alabama and I'm tired of us not having PRs because we don't want to hurt peoples feelings. Let's make a damn list and when someone isn't on their tell them to git gud.

I completely agree. My whole point is that we should base the rankings off of something mathematical so we can eliminate all human bias. People can complain of their own rankings regardless, but if there's a system involved in getting them there and they know the exact details as to why they aren't ranked as highly as they'd like then at least they know what they're doing wrong.