Air Walk: Probably Lucario's most useful AT...Still need an instructioinal vid...

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Lucario has advanced techs!?!

For those who don't know:
There are multiple instances where Lucario can use DAir in a non-stall manner. If we learn to use them to our advantage we open up new options that have defensive and offensive benefits.

We need videos!
If you can make a video of this we would really really appreciate it.

I. Basic Descriptions:

1. Air Walking: This involves someone whacking Lucario's shield then Lucario jumps out of shield, uses DAir, and rises with it. You can move horizontally with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58b6ForL4fc#t=1m21s
2. Momentum through hitstun: DAiring when we are in hitstun.
3. Jumping out of hitstun: At the end of hitstun you can jump and perform a rising DAir. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl5kwiA1MH0#t=1m51s
4. Fast Fall DAir: If you fast fall and DAir at the right time you will sorta stall in the air, but still move down with it.
5. Out of Shield; Off of Platform: If someone knocks you off of a platform out of shield you can DAir without stalling.
6. Windboxes: Pit's Up B, Ness' PSI Magnet, etc.

II. Additional mechanics/tips to known ways to DAir:

Air Walking:

• Master this and you will be able to punish a number of kill moves.
• Depending on shieldstun you have more or less time to pull this off. It is not a good idea to use this against low lag moves/jabs because there is a good chance you'll mess it up or get hit.
• Theoretically you could use this against any and all attacks that bat at your shield, but as stated its not always the most ideal choice.
• Shield DI/SDI grants you greater horizontal distance.
• So basically its easier to do this against moves that result in more shieldstun aka moves that can kill.
• A common concern is that your shield is knocked too far by common kill/powerful moves, however, this is not always true. If you use shield DI you will have more distance to work with.
• If you move horizontally when doing this it becomes incredibly hard to DI out of it.
• Can be performed out of a perfect shield, but it becomes harder to perform because you have fewer frames to execute it.
• A good way to practice would be against a Snake with them dropping Nades. You can then apply additional shield pressure.

Momentum through hitstun:

• At low percents/through quick multi-hit moves you can literally perform this while (fast) falling and move down at the same speed. However, this is very easy to punish, so be careful.
• If your opponent is under you and they are trying another move to juggle you might have enough room to use DAir.
• Obviously this can be used for momentum canceling.

Fast Fall DAir:

• If you are crafty with this you may be able to shield poke with the second hit. Ex. Feet that are not covered by the shield.
• If you attempt the above make sure their shield is a bit smaller or you have a good chance of getting punished.
• This can be performed in such a way where only the first hit comes out and you land. Then you can follow up with something else. Against a clever opponent, however, you have a chance of getting punished during the time it takes you to do something else.

III. Additional Research Needed

For Air Walking we need to get a firm understanding of shield DI and shield SDI to maximize the horizontal distance when performing it. If people can practice this and get back to us with the results of what moves we can or cannot punish for certain that would be greatly appreciated.

There are two unconfirmed/not researched ways to do a non-stall DAir that could warrant some discussion. There may be more.

1. Walking on pikmin: Perform a DAir that can move horizontally on a Pikmin. I am not sure how this works exactly, however.
2. Leaning: I think if you lean while jumping alongside a character you should be able to do a rising DAir. I've done this against King Dedede and need additional data/confirmation.

Again we greatly appreciate any and all research/input for this.

 

[phi1ny3]

One of the biggest applications I've seen is the rising dair oos. Dair's our fastest attack, but unfortunately doesn't move and has a strictly vertical hitbox for the most part. Since shieldstun is so frequent, this helps with removing those weaknesses.

 

[culexus・wau]

has anyone tried to see if there was a difference when you dair while holding the stick lightly as opposed to smashing it/using the c-stick?

just wondering.

 

[Kitamerby]

c-stick autofastfalls frame 1. As such, iirc it causes you to drop slightly lower before the "hang time" that the dair causes when the aura bursts come out.

 

[culexus・wau]

for this reason you can't sh bair and then dair with the c-stick

lol

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I know this has a lot of talk in it that might fly over some people's heads.

1. If you need help with it I'd be happy to help you on WiFail or live if you live near Detroit.

2. Is anyone else helping researching stuff in this thread?

 

[D. Disciple]

I was about to message you Myth about practicing stuff on wifi lol.

 

[culexus・wau]

I know this has a lot of talk in it that might fly over some people's heads.

1. If you need help with it I'd be happy to help you on WiFail or live if you live near Detroit.

2. Is anyone else helping researching stuff in this thread?

1. Don't like playing lucario online unless its a **** connection.

but sometimes I have good connections with EC so lets try it out

AIM me.

2.I'm too busy procrastinating on schoolwork and selfishly reading , playing, and doing other things in my free time.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I live near Detroit, so is that east coast enough for ya?

When you get a moment sometime after 4 PM EST on a weekday or anytime on a weekend? I hate AIM, so I am like never on, so it might be best to schedule something.

Just remember these techs are like cursed to not go on YouTube, since we've known about them for like a year now.

 

[phi1ny3]

This actually helped me remember an idea Ninjalink thought of long ago, but got disposed pretty badly. I have a new rehashed idea that's pretty cool, Imma wait for how it works out.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Phil, you need to make a thread here about it and not just on AiB, lol. I want to discuss frame stuff in it.

I still get the feeling that DAir has a few more properties that remain unexplored. However, I am pleased that we have made this much progress though.

Every time I say to myself I'll discover a Lucario tech, I do, its weird.

 

[culexus・wau]

Phil, you need to make a thread here about it and not just on AiB, lol. I want to discuss frame stuff in it.

I still get the feeling that DAir has a few more properties that remain unexplored. However, I am pleased that we have made this much progress though.

Every time I say to myself I'll discover a Lucario tech, I do, its weird.

This time say to yourself discover a gamebreaking lucario tech :x

 

[Aurasmash14]

it doesnt work that way.

you cant find AT's that dont exist. you can only find a little trick or too that will help you along your way.


10 imsodepressedthatlucarioisntincrediblyfla****_T

 

[phi1ny3]

I'll usually just post it in the TTR/brainstorming thread, usually isn't worth a thread on its own imo.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

@Flamey - Ok, will do.

@Phil - But "ADVANCED TECH" in good ol' capital letters can help really bring attention towards it. If we knew about the frame data for hitstun for catching people in the charging Aura Sphere when landing we might actually have some more true combos.

 

[Steam]

Messed around with this and shield DI on snake Fsmash (Im alone right now so I had to use a slow move....)

Still getting the hang of it but when I did get it to work with good shield DI I was nearly able to punish it (though it was spaced very poorly it's still snake Fsmash) You also should have mentioned you have to release the shield button before the buffer frames or it will buffer a grab if you had C-sticked. Also if you try to shield DI when you reach the buffer frames you roll.
also what would you recommend for controls for this? right now I have tap jump off and use L to jump when Rising dair. It works fine except I have problems SHing with gay trigger buttons when inputting so much at once. But I guess practice makes perfect... This looks extremely useful but something that'll be very hard to pull off in a match.

 

[culexus・wau]

why not jump with y

I can do this with normal-ish controls [X shield!] + TJ on

 

[Steam]

I've tried that but to do so I have to move my index finger down to Y because my thumb is on C-stick. I'd have to always have my hands like this to use it in game because quick thumbs just can't.

 

[culexus・wau]

learn2claw?

 

[Steam]

But if I clawed Cstick I'd have to use my middle finger for Y and pinky for shield.

I think half my problem is that I have to input a smash on the other controller before moving my hands to mine so I can't really be ready.

 

[culexus・wau]

feet are good for moving the c-stick forward.

 

[Steam]

Γ_Γ

I'd like to see you do that

 

[culexus・wau]

no really

I have to test things by myself all the time.

 

[Steam]

OH the other C-stick.

I thought you were talking about using feet for Dair OOS lol

 

[culexus・wau]

that would be hella amazing

You would like

being sitting L style on the chair during your matches.

fawk yeah

 

[Steam]

I would not be able to withstand the level of smex.

 

[AlexoftheAura]

That would certainly be an interesting match to watch.

 

[Kitamerby]

I knew a Melee Falco main who played with his right hand and left foot. He was pretty good too. Wavedashing, SHFFLing everywhere with his foot. I think he could even moonwalk.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I dare someone to Air Walk with their feet.

But yeah, good finding Steam, if you can almost punish Snake's FSmash just imagine what we can punish!

 

[culexus・wau]

why not like.

test with something more common.

like MK fsmash

or mk dsmash

or something.

 

[D. Disciple]

or Snake's dsmash?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Its easier to first get an understanding of it via a slower move to get the timing down. Then you can work on stuff like Marth's FSmash, Falco's USmash, etc.

 

[Steam]

I also tested it on DK Dsmash and punished it. iirc I got DK fsmash too but if i did it was spaced poorly

edit: MORE TESTING =D

So Kirby and fox Fsmash can be punished without Shield SDI and with full hop. I also tested fox upsmash and without shield SDI you miss but if you SDI I'm fairly sure we can get him with the second kick. (I can't do this on such a fast move when I'm Csticking up with my toe.)

Also tested on warios Fsmash and without SDI the second kick gets him but only when you SH.

 

[xxpatgxx]

Nice stuff

 

[Steam]

it works but with SSDI it barely has more range than SSDI shieldgrab. plus the grab gives us more options (and is much much easier)

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

So how's that instructional Air Walking vid going, Steam?

 

[phi1ny3]

If people don't understand what shield DI looks like:
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iirc though, it's pretty meh in overall effect from whatever application people have tried, still, kinda cool when you look at it.

 

[Steam]

I really probably won't be able to do much til I have a working comp which could be any time =/

 

[superlucario]

look at this advanced tech I found on youtube Makes ES have No Lag what so ever here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85vyBS6-bo4

 

[Steam]

you're not jeepy. and everyone knows about EA