Advancing the Mewtwo Meta Game

[IdkLmao]

welp gonna play with friends tonight. mostly teams but I'm gonna try to go all mewtwo. got most of the high tier represented there so it should be interesting.

How did it go? Learn anything new?

 

[SuperShus]

Since we're at the small talk part of life again, I'm sitting in San Francisco Airport - I have to wait 10 hours for my connecting flight. After a day or two I'll start streaming and recording again. In a week I'll be in nova around prime MD/VA training.

I'm planning on playing mostly Fox against very good people - (PRd players) and mostly Mewtwo against people around/below my skill level.
I still have a lot to learn about smash and I think I'm not ready do dedicate myself to low tier life. However I hope to still learn about Mewtwo and report everything I learn back here.
<3

bros

 

[ihasabuket]

Recently ive been using airdodge to grab ledge from right under. Mewtwo falls slow enough that you can actually airdodge right under the ledge and you'll still grab it.

Since we're at the small talk part of life again, I'm sitting in San Francisco Airport - I have to wait 10 hours for my connecting flight. After a day or two I'll start streaming and recording again. In a week I'll be in nova around prime MD/VA training.

I'm planning on playing mostly Fox against very good people - (PRd players) and mostly Mewtwo against people around/below my skill level.
I still have a lot to learn about smash and I think I'm not ready do dedicate myself to low tier life. However I hope to still learn about Mewtwo and report everything I learn back here.
<3

bros

Thats great man! Itd be great if you could tryout the sheik matchup to get some feedback on our work so far. Im probably gonna update the sheik matchup post tonight and try to round up everyone to discuss followups.

 

[SuperShus]

I dont know how much I can play with shiek, but I'm going to be living with a marth main, and the only shiek I know is super good and completely wrecks my fox - i'm pretty sure he'd jv5 my Mewtwo. LOL.

We'll see. There's a fest every Friday in MD/VA and it's hosted by SypherPheonix so a lot of people go. He's really respected around here.

Ok- I'm gonna stop posting about life stuff, this is a place for Mewtwo knowledge.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Who's the Sheik? Kaffei?

 

[IdkLmao]

Since we're at the small talk part of life again, I'm sitting in San Francisco Airport - I have to wait 10 hours for my connecting flight. After a day or two I'll start streaming and recording again. In a week I'll be in nova around prime MD/VA training.

I'm planning on playing mostly Fox against very good people - (PRd players) and mostly Mewtwo against people around/below my skill level.
I still have a lot to learn about smash and I think I'm not ready do dedicate myself to low tier life. However I hope to still learn about Mewtwo and report everything I learn back here.
<3

bros

I'm glad to see you've been helping us develop mewtwo over here.

My long winded two cents for your tournament experience. If you can i'd see if you could get some friendlies against some really good players you'd normally want to go fox on. And play to learn against them while playing as many mewtwo friendlies as you can. I think fighting the top players there especially #1 player is really important because if you manage to even do decently well or figure anything out about playing around their level that will add to the confidence bank account for settling for mewtwo.

Get feedback from the good players as well. And maybe bring a laptop with you in the car to type out what they said you should work on with mewtwo or your fresh impressions from the tournamen


If you do poorly in the friendlies though then in my book thats still something very beneficial. You finally get to meet face to face the real problems the mewtwo is having that haven't been trained in yet that specifically prevent it from beating them. This goes a long way into upgrading the goals in your training that you should strive for to win and your improvement rate in general should skyrocket in some way after focusing on those goals.

 

[Bandit Croco]

How did it go? Learn anything new?

Actually didn't happen. Everyone stayed home so it wasn't worth going out. Pretty much stayed inside and practiced some tech skill. Gonna try and play a little bit tonight tho

 

[SuperShus]

I don't plan on playing mewtwo in tournament much at all for a while. I don't really have a good enough grasp on Mewtwo for that.

I have two plus years of practice and like 8-9 tournaments into Fox - my mewtwo is untested. I think that my Mewtwo will make his tournament debut in not less than 6 months.
I was talking about friendlies. D:

 

[ChivalRuse]

It's funny because whenever I DO bring out Mewtwo, I body people with him. But I only use him when I'm playing against scrubs.

 

[Bandit Croco]

So I went out to play last night and got about 2-3 hours of good m2 practice. Learned a few things but I'll double check to make sure it's right before I post what it is. Also got tons of teams practice. M2/cf is really nice. Fast and great kill moves. Fthrow really stood out as a nice move to use. Just having that wall of sb is a pretty nice interrupt. I still feel like I'm moving slow but I guess with time that will get better. I'm fairly sure we recorded so hopefully I'll get the links soon. More to come! Sorry for WOT!

 

[ChivalRuse]

Mewtwo seems like he'd do well in teams. I've seen Taj + Wobbles do teams friendlies with Mewtwo and Ice Climbers and decimate plenty of other teams.

 

[IdkLmao]

I was talking about friendlies. D:

I think I was a little unclear. Sorry. The main thing I tried to communicate was that I was suggesting to try out the mewtwo in friendlies. Specifically against players who you felt were strong enough to make you feel comfortable just playing them with fox. And in friendlies against the best player/top group of players at the venue if possible.

My writing has a lot of bloat and definitely needs to be cleaned up to communicate things better. I'll see what I can do to address this over time.

I look forward to seeing the vids banditcroco! Mewtwo footage is always great.

In case I am giving any impression of giving too much advice without the reputation to back it up I do apologize. I'll make it a priority to get a lot more tournament experience in before making long posts like those on playing better. Even if the advice works its hard to tell coming from a player like myself.

Just a little update for you guys- Guys, this account i'm using is a quick side account I made really fast one day. So once the training and tournament attendance heats up i'll be making a new account. The age will be different on the new one because I just picked random dates to speed through the process of making this account lol. I've been slacking on mewtwo really bad so i'm going to get started training him now.

 

[ChivalRuse]

You know if you get premium you can change the screen name on your account.

 

[ihasabuket]

guys if you wanna have this type of discussion you should open a new thread called "match experiences and discussions" or something like that. This thread is going off on a tangent.

 

[IdkLmao]

Sorry about that ihasabuket. Thanks for telling me about that Chivalruse.

So with how inactive the board is i'm concerned there may be mewtwo advice lingering out on the net that hasn't been updated here yet in the stickies etc. Is there any good learning content for mewtwo you know of that isn't being talked about much here? Maybe some twitch channels or youtube channels? Anything like that?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Not any media content that I know of. But if you go back and look up old Taj posts, there are paragraphs upon paragraphs of great data that you can adopt from him.

 

[MookieRah]

I can't tell you why M2 + ICs work, but they really do. I teamed once with an IC acquaintance and did way, way better than either of us expected.

 

[Bandit Croco]

I can't tell you why M2 + ICs work, but they really do. I teamed once with an IC acquaintance and did way, way better than either of us expected.

i am interested in why this is. maybe its because the ICs are a huge threat that they take off kill priority from m2 so it allows the m2 to do as they please. still trying to figure it out.

Sorry about that ihasabuket. Thanks for telling me about that Chivalruse.

So with how inactive the board is i'm concerned there may be mewtwo advice lingering out on the net that hasn't been updated here yet in the stickies etc. Is there any good learning content for mewtwo you know of that isn't being talked about much here? Maybe some twitch channels or youtube channels? Anything like that?

I have been putting together a m2 playlist of all the vids i can find here and on youtube and also gathering all the relevant info on techs and strategy in a text doc. the text doc isn't done yet (hopefully it will be a while before its done) but the youtube stuff is a really good study guide.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TItBmEUcrdE&list=PLlvlw0LCPllEQksDhGta7-3cMenTDh0Ew

 

[ihasabuket]

Recently i was playing with a few friends and noticed that my combos just seemed to end with me sending them too high up to combo. I started using reverse bair to send em offstage during a combo. The great part is you can usually WL, AC, or DJ out of it for followups since it has little endlag. If your opponent DIs down you get a can get techchase, if not they get sent offstage. This is really useful against spacies if they're getting comboed without their DJ as it will setup a proper edgeguard. It's also great against Sheik since her recovery is really punishable and it's a great alternative to fair at mid %s since sheik goes too high to followup. It also serves as a DI mixup with fair. I got the idea after remembering Taj did it against PC.
Another thing ive been incorporating is platform techchases with dair when the opponent is at high %. Dair has such low KB growth that it sets up perfectly for a fair kill especially since they'll already be high up. The quickest way to followup with dair is to edge cancel it, which is fairly easy given mewtwo's low traction, high aerial mobility, and DJC.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Mewtwo's uthrow sends people pretty far at mid percents. If you can't connect an fair, it's better to just double jump uair and then shark their landing/getting down.

 

[ihasabuket]

Mewtwo's uthrow sends people pretty far at mid percents. If you can't connect an fair, it's better to just double jump uair and then shark their landing/getting down.

At mid %s there are much better options like bthrow offstage or a dtilt instead of a grab if youre not positioned for a bthrow. Upthrow just gives them too many mixups to get back to the floor because a grab gives them their DJ. Sending them offstage or starting a combo is much more advantageous.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[Church NEOH]

I dabbled in M2 for awhile and plan on going strictly M2 in tournies. Might develop a Sheik for the pesky Marth match up until I get better at it. I hate how big this character is.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[ChivalRuse]

I like u-throw > uair > read their next option - on fast fallers around 40-50%. Uair has nice hitstun and knockback.

 

[IdkLmao]

Here are some goodies for beefing up the effectiveness of your training if we don't have these elsewhere already http://www.twitch.tv/meleeitonme/b/471089168

This is a beautiful resource here. Its a video about improvement and mango is talking about ideas behind training to get better for almost 2 hours.
If you look in the related videos on the side and scroll down you will also see videos on this improving from players like PPMD. If you open these videos I highly suggest opening notepad/microsoft words/anything like this to jot down everything he says. Then later when you play open up the fie and start incorporating the ideas into how you train later.

So just sharing some thoughts i've been having/brainstorming on.
I'm a big believer of improving the idea that you are using to get better. The idea responsible for how your training routine is built. Specifically until its good enough for you to know it can bring you the skill you need to win. If the training idea you use isn't good enough to create the skill necessary to win I think the attempt to get good at the game becomes a wild goosechase. So with exception of course, I think no matter how much you grind at this game or play with your friends it doesn't matter if the philosophy creating your training isn't good enough to let you reach a skill level to win. You don't address purposely creating that leap in skill to a defined level that lets you win tournaments so it never happens.

After improving how you train, the improvement itself comes more quickly. Its more reassuring and encouraging to stay with the path of getting better then.


Bandit Croco that is a huge list of mewtwo videos. Thanks for putting that together.

 

[ChivalRuse]

What are some good ways to get onto the stage from the ledge over 100%? Obviously, there's teleport. But how else can we mix it up with the slow double jump. Ledge hop nair seems like a pretty risky option since most spaced bairs will plow through it.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[Sieghart]

If you're on Yoshi's you can edge cancel to the closes platform from the ledge. That's what I do at least. I usually stall until I see an opening or I can think of a safe way to get to the stage. In what limited experience I've obtained thus far people seem prone to trying to cover some options at the expense of others. That aside, one instance of me using the edge cancel on Yoshi's specifically was a match I had vs a Fox where I got to high percent without dying with much thanks to the beauty of laser camping. He got me to the ledge and tried to space a nair to mess up my stall so I edge canceled to the platform and got neutral. I got wrecked regardless but in that one play I like to think I got the upper hand. I've been trying to think of stuff in terms of neutral and spacing like people suggested.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I like ledgedash in place. It's basically like a regular get-up but with less of a visual cue. You can somewhat react to the opponent's positioning on stage obviously, which allows you to choose more favorable options. Airdodge also can be used somewhat reactively I think.

I wonder if there are instances when ledgehop reverse shadow ball charge is viable.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[ChivalRuse]

Ledgehop disable doesn't work if people are spacing bair on you as you get back on.

 

[IdkLmao]

I can't find this question anywhere so i'll ask here.
I need some help learning to powershield normally and with the Z powershield talked about here http://smashboards.com/threads/official-ask-anyone-frame-things-thread.313889/page-17#post-18512581

The issue is one of optimization. I can't exactly tell when the input registers for the Z or the L/R Trigger on the click.
I'm trying to figure out the exact point when the input happens for each of these buttons to get a more accurate cue to work with while I work on powershielding.

 

[ChivalRuse]

If you depress the L or R button when you plug in your controller, you will always get a digital press when you shield. I think you can employ this method for the Z power shield as well.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[ChivalRuse]

I meant because if they're using bair, then they aren't facing you. Disable only works on opponents who are facing Mewtwo.

 

[Deleted member 212841]

gcyftftdtfyxycyvj

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah I don't think Mewtwo has anything in particular that complements Ice Climbers except for maybe his good ability to control the air with nair and uair while ICs are going to be more focused on dominating the ground.

 

[IdkLmao]

Since I have some posts talking about working on this character I feel I should post this. I'm not sure about committing to melee now. I'm off on hiatus and presumed not to be coming back at this point. In the event that I don't return I just want to say its been fun and take care guys.

 

[Bandit Croco]

after playing for a while and checking frame data, is there a way to use the IASA frame on the dsmash? right now i can only really thing of shield pressure but its not even that great. wondering if anyone else has explored this.

Since I have some posts talking about working on this character I feel I should post this. I'm not sure about committing to melee now. I'm off on hiatus and presumed not to be coming back at this point. In the event that I don't return I just want to say its been fun and take care guys.

priorities man. sometimes you just gotta take a quick break and come back better than ever.