Adeleine, the Miracle Painter (& Ribbon?): Sorry for the wait... but the wait continues.

[Mogisthelioma]

Kirby 64 was my first Kirby game as a kid, and I thought Adeleine was a pretty cool character with her painting abilities. I was surprised af to find out that she was returning in a modern Kirby game as playable. Now I'm hearing she has a chance for Ultimate DLC? Are we living in the best timeline?

It's possible, yes.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

The time has come for the final battle. Wave 3 has been released.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The time has come for the final battle. Wave 3 has been released.

Without spoilers......is it good?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Without spoilers......is it good?

Word on the street says it's balls-to-the-wall hard, that's all I know so far.

 

[Fatmanonice]

The time has come for the final battle. Wave 3 has been released.

And now I can finally buy the game. I didn't want to get the game, blow through it in a week, and then wait months for new content. All the DLC characters were spoiled like 8 months ago but I'm kind of glad they were because of this.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Word on the street says it's balls-to-the-wall hard, that's all I know so far.

Strange for what's been considered one of the easiest Kirby games since Epic Yarn.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Strange for what's been considered one of the easiest Kirby games since Epic Yarn.

Honestly, I don't mind it at all, the lack of any extra modes in the series after RTDL was conspicuously odd since the super hard content was mostly relegated to True Arenas. Now that we got a proper console installment again, no reason to hold back on that front.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Strange for what's been considered one of the easiest Kirby games since Epic Yarn.

That's probably why. A lot of people were complaining that even Soul Melter was too easy with the right ally combinations (Marx is pretty much death incarnate anyways while Magalor will probably be the same).

 

[Deleted member]

Hey newcomer here, though I'm a big fan of Kirby myself. In fact, Kirby's Dreamland 3 remains one of my favorite Kirby games, which is definitely a minority opinion.

I just read the opening post on this thread, and although the compelling argument was made that Ado and Adeleine are the same person, I was surprised that the biggest piece of evidence was not mentioned. This being that the Japanese name for Adeleine is Adoreenu (remember, they pronounce non-initial L's like R's--"Zelda" to us is "Zeruda" to them, which also explains how we got "Gerudo" from "Geldo" but that's another tangent entirely)--anyway, so "Ado" was used because I guess her name didn't get localized, and also because Adoreenu didn't fit the space, as is explained here.

Adeleine has certainly made more of a comeback in later years and while something has never sat right with me about adding Bandana Waddle Dee to Smash, I could definitely see Adeleine being another unique Kirby newcomer. Unfortunately, the main thing hurting her chances is, ironically, Sakurai himself. He has had nothing to with her, nor much of the Kirby series for quite some time (if this is accurate, Kirby Air Ride was his last real Kirby game acting as director). That in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean anything as he obviously didn't direct any games for other series too (excluding Kid Icarus Uprising), but apart from a few exceptions, like Kirby and Dedede's current Final Smashes and some music, he mostly just references the games he directed. At least Bandana Waddle Dee appeared in Super Star....

Plus, with the DLC having been chosen by Nintendo, I personally don't see how Adeleine would make much sense as a choice to drive DLC sales. Can always dream, though. Sakurai did make the impossible possible once already, so you never know.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

This bit from the Game Informer interview stuck out for me:

There will be people who might feel disappointed if fighters that appeared in a previous title are not included. I didn’t want any players to feel that way, so we worked really hard to make this happen.


But what I learned is that regardless of doing our utmost, no matter how hard we try, and no matter how many fighters we include, there will always be people who feel that way.

While it's a sad, yet undeniable truth, one can't help but wonder if he feels this about the Kirby series in particular.

 

[smashkirby]

This bit from the Game Informer interview stuck out for me:


While it's a sad, yet undeniable truth, one can't help but wonder if he feels this about the Kirby series in particular.

I REALLY PRAY that this doesn't mean we won't EVER get another Smash game with EVERYONE returning. I don't even care if it'll be 15-20 years from now, I just really don't want Smash Ultimate to be the one time it ever happens just cause of a bunch of ungrateful *****...

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Without spoilers......is it good?

I don't have a Switch yet and I can't play it (I won't be able to play Smash at launch as well, I can't buy one soon but I definitely will in the future), but I spoiled myself all the content of the game (just because I can't wait).
I can say that the new mode seems good, the level design seems very solid aside of a couple of unfair traps/unintuitive parts:

Spoiler

a part with Taranza where you must launch a key into a door while you are falling in a bottomless pit and you have to be extremely precise in order to get it right; another part with Susie where there is a bottomless pit but the game somehow fools you and if you don't pay enough attention you will fall down thinking that there is ground and that the camera could still scroll; and a part where many friend hearts are hidden in some falling meteors and they are just too easy to miss.

I was a bit disappointed by the fact that

Spoiler

there are no new bosses, just harder versions of old bosses

but the content is still cool and there is some new lore, so it's all good.
Difficulty-wise, I think that the levels are of the right difficulty and I wish the same level of difficulty was in the base game (if you don't go for 100% the levels are still easy enough); there are some big difficulty spikes during the boss fights though... from what I have seen, they are even too hard to be enjoyable, there are some situations where you can't avoid damage (or it's extremely hard to), and you must continuously revive your friends. It's still possible to cheat with stone or other stuff that brings you invincibility (like Adeleine's shield), or by using the 3 mages that seem to be 10x more overpowered than Marx.
About the Dream Friends themselves, I like them, though I'm a bit disappointed that the People of the Sky don't do a cameo in Taranza'a moveset.
Anyway, the game feels more complete now with the new mode, it was needed.

To stay in topic, this may be considered as a minor spoiler but it's nothing too important so I think you can read just fine: the previous waves had 1 celebration picture for all 3 Dream Friends except for Wave 2, where Adeleine was the only one having an exclusive picture. In this wave, each Dream Friend has an exclsive picture like Adeleine in Wave 2. I think that it's still cool for Adeleine to be the first character to have an exclusive picture and the only character outside of Wave 3 to have one.
Speaking of Heroes of Another Dimension, Adeleine is used in a pretty clever way in this new mode!

Spoiler

As a reference to Kirby's Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64, during her section you have to sculpt some block formations in order to copy the shape that's shown in the previous room; unlike the previous games, this time you can't freely break all the blocks, this time it's more like a puzzle and in some occasions some specific moves are required. It's very cool though, it really feels like you are playing as an artist character.

Hey newcomer here, though I'm a big fan of Kirby myself. In fact, Kirby's Dreamland 3 remains one of my favorite Kirby games, which is definitely a minority opinion.

I just read the opening post on this thread, and although the compelling argument was made that Ado and Adeleine are the same person, I was surprised that the biggest piece of evidence was not mentioned. This being that the Japanese name for Adeleine is Adoreenu (remember, they pronounce non-initial L's like R's--"Zelda" to us is "Zeruda" to them, which also explains how we got "Gerudo" from "Geldo" but that's another tangent entirely)--anyway, so "Ado" was used because I guess her name didn't get localized, and also because Adoreenu didn't fit the space, as is explained here.

Adeleine has certainly made more of a comeback in later years and while something has never sat right with me about adding Bandana Waddle Dee to Smash, I could definitely see Adeleine being another unique Kirby newcomer. Unfortunately, the main thing hurting her chances is, ironically, Sakurai himself. He has had nothing to with her, nor much of the Kirby series for quite some time (if this is accurate, Kirby Air Ride was his last real Kirby game acting as director). That in and of itself doesn't necessarily mean anything as he obviously didn't direct any games for other series too (excluding Kid Icarus Uprising), but apart from a few exceptions, like Kirby and Dedede's current Final Smashes and some music, he mostly just references the games he directed. At least Bandana Waddle Dee appeared in Super Star....

Plus, with the DLC having been chosen by Nintendo, I personally don't see how Adeleine would make much sense as a choice to drive DLC sales. Can always dream, though. Sakurai did make the impossible possible once already, so you never know.

Kirby's Dream Land 3 is my favorite Kirby game too and by a big margin; I even prefer Ado's design from KDL3 over the K64 one, though I know that the character has been redesigned and they aren't going back to the old design.

I know about that name thing, but I didn't include it in the post because it's based on speculaion and there is no actual proof that Ado in DL3 was meant to be called Adeleine and they shortened the name to Ado because it didn't fit; I think that she was intended to be called Ado and they changed her name to Adeleine in Kirby 64 for different reasons (such as the fact that Ado is not seen as a female name in occident and people confused her for a boy).
I agree that "Adoreenu" includes "Ado-" in it and it's definitely based on Ado's name from KDL3, though I don't think this is a proof that they are the same, this could have easily been a coincidence or something (I think that the name Elline is vaguely based on Adeleine's name too, but they aren't the same character).
The Kirby Encyclopedia suggesting that Ado is just a nickname, and Adeleine having a move called "Ado's Painter" are 2 actual proofs coming from official sources and I think that they are way more valid as evidence. They still aren't a 100% confirmation, they are still a bit vague and open, but it's heavily suggested that they are the same character (I mean, officially).

I agree that the fact that Sakurai is still the director may hurt her chance. This is just an assumption, but so far we have:

-Sakurai telling the staff of the Kirby anime to not include human character (Adeleine didn't appear in the show, probably because of it)
-Adeleine being excluded from the series from almost 20 years, we don't know if Sakurai is responsable of this but considering the previous point, it's possible
-Kirby Air Ride having content from Kirby Superstar but ignoring completely the games directed by Shimomura that were the most recent games at the time
-Adeleine and Ribbon being accurately excluded from Brawl's stickers despite having a bunch of stickers from K64 (only stuff like Waddle Dee or Dedede).
-Sakurai admitting multiple times that he's against changes that differ from his vision (during the first Ultimate Smash Direct he said that he didn't want to change Wii Fit Trainer's face and in an interview he said that he didn't want to make Villager's neck longer but he did it anyway because the staff of those series requested those changes; it took many years to include Masked Dedede as Dedede's final smash, he always tried to avoid it, in Smash 4 he made a completely new final smash that's not based on anything he did in the games, despite people were asking for Masked Dedede at the time).

All these hints are pointing toward the possibility that he dislikes the character and probably he doesn't want her in Smash, but who knows... he's unpredictable, and there is Nintendo involved this time...

Speaking of Nintendo, I think that they may have more than one reason to want her in Smash... her reveal trailer for Star Allies became trending on Twitter (? I have no proof, but I have read of some people saying this), people made a big noise for her when she was to be revealed and her reveal was delayed; and she's an unique character with unique skills... her way of fighting is so original that it can attract the attention of the general audience even if they don't know the character directly. "That character who fights by painting stuff to life" is not something that you find in many games, it's very special, unique, and it can even create some interest in the causal audience if they find the right way to promote her.
If they used Piranha Plant as a promotional gimmick, a character that nobody asked for, I can totally see them succesfully selling Adeleine as a DLC.

On the other hand, Taranza and Hyness are also missing as spirits, and a part of me fears that Nintendo would select Hyness instead of Adeleine simply because he is a promotional character, being the main villain in the most recent Kirby game (but this partially applies to Adeleine as well, she's playable in Star Allies and can work as a promotional character to advertise that game as well).

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Adeline should have a Bob Ross skin if she makes it.

 

[Deleted member]

snip

Fair enough, I suppose it's not 100% confirmed but to me seems likely (about Ado/Adelein's name). Kinda reminds me as well of the bad localization of Samus's Barrier Suit, known to us now as the Varia Suit. In that case, we know for sure what happened, but Varia has stuck and they're not going to change it. So, the reason we may still see 'Ado' alongside 'Adeleine' is that Nintendo/Hal is not completely willing to admit that there was a localization mistake. Just a theory for now, though.
Also, I'm glad you like Kirby's Dreamland 3 too. I can't think about that game without smiling.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yo, here's a neat pic I found that managed to predict the incoming Dream Friends.

https://twitter.com/whimsicottly/status/1005601418235932672

Protip: never ask DMK to take pictures, it never ends well.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I REALLY PRAY that this we won't EVER get another Smash game with EVERYONE returning. I don't even care if it'll be 15-20 years from now, I just really don't want Smash Ultimate to be the one time it ever happens just cause of a bunch of ungrateful *****...

I'm not a fan of the "ungrateful" argument. In the end; Smash is a product and we all spend at least 60 dollars to play it. We would be entitled if it was a free game, but not right now.

 

[Princess_Ashley]

I REALLY PRAY that this doesn't mean we won't EVER get another Smash game with EVERYONE returning. I don't even care if it'll be 15-20 years from now, I just really don't want Smash Ultimate to be the one time it ever happens just cause of a bunch of ungrateful *****...

I disagree, I never want another game that is spammed with old, tired characters again. I would rather have new ones.

 

[KingofUSA85]

I disagree, I never want another game that is spammed with old, tired characters again. I would rather have new ones.

Agreed. With Inkling the only truely new character on the roster the only reason im buying ultimate rather than sticking with 4 is the new WOL singleplayer mode.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

This old character bashing doesn't really make sense from you guy's.... you are aware Adeline is in the same boat, right?

 

[zferolie]

I disagree, I never want another game that is spammed with old, tired characters again. I would rather have new ones.

I honestly think fighting games should never remove charavters or playstyles, just always add more. I know with third party guests that is hard, but i hate that someone i play in 1 game may not be in the next. Soul caliber 5 screwed me over so hard that way, as does most sf games at launch

 

[StormC]

Agreed. With Inkling the only truely new character on the roster

Come again...?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I honestly think fighting games should never remove charavters or playstyles, just always add more. I know with third party guests that is hard, but i hate that someone i play in 1 game may not be in the next. Soul caliber 5 screwed me over so hard that way, as does most sf games at launch

I know that feeling, MvC is unable to have that philosophy applied (no thanks in part to Marvel's shenanigans in the late 90s). I can understand swapping out Marvel characters for others and ditching Ruby Heart (she was the main character of MvC2, after all), but there was no reason to cut out SonSon and Amingo.

 

[zferolie]

I know that feeling, MvC is unable to have that philosophy applied (no thanks in part to Marvel's shenanigans in the late 90s). I can understand swapping out Marvel characters for others and ditching Ruby Heart (she was the main character of MvC2, after all), but there was no reason to cut out SonSon and Amingo.

Yeah mvc is the worst offender for sure... u understand why but capcom should always keep their whole side at least

 

[Princess_Ashley]

This old character bashing doesn't really make sense from you guy's.... you are aware Adeline is in the same boat, right?

Adeleine has never been in smash... so no, she is not in the same boat. At all.

I honestly think fighting games should never remove charavters or playstyles, just always add more

If characters are never removed, then there is no space for new, different characters. Look at ultimate. Only 6 unique characters, really?

Cuts are good.

 

[StormC]

I was personally happier with the newcomer selection in Ultimate than Smash 4, and although the only cut veterans I really wanted to see come back were Snake and Wolf, just about everyone had a cut vet they wished for and Everyone Is Here was probably the best choice to make as many people as happy as possible.

I’d be totally fine if future Smash installments were forever just Ultimate’s roster/DLC + half a dozen newcomers/echoes each, but I know that’s just a pipe dream.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

I was personally happier with the newcomer selection in Ultimate than Smash 4, and although the only cut veterans I really wanted to see come back were Snake and Wolf, just about everyone had a cut vet they wished for and Everyone Is Here was probably the best choice to make as many people as happy as possible.

I’d be totally fine if future Smash installments were forever just Ultimate’s roster/DLC + half a dozen newcomers/echoes each, but I know that’s just a pipe dream.

Each with there own years of DLC support ;3

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I was personally happier with the newcomer selection in Ultimate than Smash 4, and although the only cut veterans I really wanted to see come back were Snake and Wolf, just about everyone had a cut vet they wished for and Everyone Is Here was probably the best choice to make as many people as happy as possible.

I’d be totally fine if future Smash installments were forever just Ultimate’s roster/DLC + half a dozen newcomers/echoes each, but I know that’s just a pipe dream.

TBH the newcomer/returning vets selection in Smash 4 mainly consisted of clones and fighters not many people asked for. Most of them at least.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

With Inkling the only truely new character on the roster

Cough... Ridley, cough... Simon, cough... K. Rool.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Agreed. With Inkling the only truely new character on the roster the only reason im buying ultimate rather than sticking with 4 is the new WOL singleplayer mode.

What do you mean by "only true newcomer?"

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

You know, when it comes to aiming for new characters, there's a difference between "characters people like that haven't been seen in the roster yet" and "having recent characters for the sake of relevancy, don't dwell on the past". With the latter logic, you'd only have people from ARMS, Splatoon/2, XB2 and Labo as playable.

I'm not going to partake in this silly conversation any longer, so I'll be off the thread for a bit.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

To bring the thread back on track:
This just happend:

Pikachu and Eevee spirits are being added in an update in order to promote the "Let's Go" games. if you have a "Let's Go" save data on your console.
This means that more spirits can be added later.
How does this affect Adeleine's chance?
Maybe it hurts her chances a bit, but the bright side is that maybe they will add her in future to promote a game, and if they add Adeleine as a promotional spirit, it means that she's involved in a new game.
So, what do you think?

Something that I noticed is that, while those spirits are basic (normal Pikachu, not an alt), they still have something written in brackets, meaning that despite representing the same thing as the fighter spirit, they won't share the same name as it.
I'm under the impression that spirits still deconfirm characters as long as they have the original name of the character as their title, without alterations nor additional parts (but this is just an assumption and I can't read Japanese so I don't know what those things written in brackets mean... I assume it's "Let's Go" or something but it's just an assumption).

EDIT: I found a site where there are the English versions of those screenshots.
They are called "Partner Pikachu" and "Partner Eevee".
For some reason I can't link it.
This means that they still don't overlap with the fighter spirits of Pikachu.
Nothing has changed, really, it's only a trick by Nintendo to confuse us.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To bring the thread back on track:
This just happend:

Pikachu and Eevee spirits are being added in an update in order to promote the "Let's Go" games.
This means that more spirits can be added later.
How does this affect Adeleine's chance?
Maybe it hurts her chances a bit, but the bright side is that maybe they will add her in future to promote a game, and if they add Adeleine as a promotional spirit, it means that she's involved in a new game.
So, what do you think?

Something that I noticed is that, while those spirits are basic (normal Pikachu, not an alt), they still have something written in brackets, meaning that despite representing the same thing as the fighter spirit, they won't share the same name as it.
I'm under the impression that spirits still deconfirm characters as long as they have the original name of the character as their title, without alterations nor additional parts (but this is just an assumption and I can't read Japanese so I don't know what those things written in brackets mean... I assume it's "Let's Go" or something but it's just an assumption).

EDIT: I found a site where there are the English versions of those screenshots.
They are called "Partner Pikachu" and "Partner Eevee".
For some reason I can't link it.
This means that they still don't overlap with the fighter spirits of Pikachu.
Nothing has changed, really, it's only a trick by Nintendo to confuse us.

Correction:

Unlock Pikachu And Eevee Spirits In Smash Bros. Ultimate With Your Pokémon: Let's Go Save Data

These spirits can be added if you have save data from those games. It's a Melee situation, kind of.

And they're not trying to confuse people, it's just a bit of cross-promotion for Pokemon fans who can't wait to earn those spirits. Although I question whether PLG's audience would be that interested in Smash enough to do that...

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Correction:

Unlock Pikachu And Eevee Spirits In Smash Bros. Ultimate With Your Pokémon: Let's Go Save Data

These spirits can be added if you have save data from those games. It's a Melee situation, kind of.

And they're not trying to confuse people, it's just a bit of cross-promotion for Pokemon fans who can't wait to earn those spirits. Although I question whether PLG's audience would be that interested in Smash enough to do that...

This means that it's possible that the Adeleine & Ribbon spirit, maybe along with Taranza and stuff, will be unlocked if you have some Star Allies save data?
well...

Anyway, by confusing I mean that so many people think that this is the proof that spirits don't deconfirm characters, while instead this is no different than a Meta-Ridley situation. Maybe it's not intentional but it worked it seems.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think the best thing to do right now is to not think about spirits at all. These theories about them aren't remotely going anywhere until actual news happen.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

If Spirits can be added, no one is saying they can't be removed if they're DLC fighters.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

If Spirits can be added, no one is saying they can't be removed if they're DLC fighters.

That's true but it's very unlikely...
Imagine that you have a spirit, you equipped it and leveled it up, you spent a lot of time and effort on it.
Then it gets removed.
Ok, that character is now playable so you would still be happy, but your spirit and the hours you spent to level it up are now wasted.
It would be a worse situation than a certain thing that happens in FFVII.
But it's not impossible, it can still happen... we don't know anything yet.

 

[WarioTheLegend]

When Mewtwo and Lucas got added as Smash 4 DLC, their regular trophies were left untouched. So if we get spirits as DLC, their spirit probably just be left as is.

(Also I'm totally down for more Kirby so I support Ado in Smasho)

 

[Mogisthelioma]

That's true but it's very unlikely...
Imagine that you have a spirit, you equipped it and leveled it up, you spent a lot of time and effort on it.
Then it gets removed.
Ok, that character is now playable so you would still be happy, but your spirit and the hours you spent to level it up are now wasted.
It would be a worse situation than a certain thing that happens in FFVII.
But it's not impossible, it can still happen... we don't know anything yet.

I mean, it makes more sense for them to keep them. More spirits are better, period.

 

[Deleted member]

When Mewtwo and Lucas got added as Smash 4 DLC, their regular trophies were left untouched. So if we get spirits as DLC, their spirit probably just be left as is.

(Also I'm totally down for more Kirby so I support Ado in Smasho)

Exactly, everyone's talking about whether Spirits deconfirm characters and I'm like.....no....they don't. Same way trophies didn't deconfirm characters before.

 

[thirsty-pocket]

Consider me a supporter. Kirby 64 was the first game I played. Boy was my perception of the series very different from what it actually was, because there's just no other Kirby game like it, except for maybe Dreamland 3. I thought there was only one Waddle Dee, and he was like the Luigi to Kirby's Mario or something. I thought Dedede was a stoic loner type character because of his eyes and demeanor. And I thought Adeline was a series regular.

There's been several Kirby characters introduced before this and since this but none of them were really as interesting to me as Adeline. I'm kind of bummed out that it took this long for her to make a comeback.

I disagree, I never want another game that is spammed with old, tired characters again. I would rather have new ones.

I'll never be able to underestand this kind of mindset. Fighting games should have as many characters as they can. And crossover history lessons like Smash especially should keep most of the characters unless they're deemed not very important, and there's few characters on the roster I'd consider not important enough for Smash. Even the characters I don't personally like are characters that I can fight against.