Accepting the Game/Character.

[Dark.Pch]

There is a lot of guides around this side that can help you step your game up to be a great smash player. And even players out there willing to go out their way in the community to help you out (Like me). But I believe there is one thing that needs to be talked about that I feel is very important. And better to get it out the way new since this game is in its baby stages and will be reborn once again in smash for the wii u. And it's about realizing what kind of game you are playing (competitively) and the characters you face.

So as of now people are complaining about characters like Rosalina, Sheik, Lil mac, Diddy, greninja and the likes. I been all over these boards or with people and here them complain about the character or some functions of the game. Now for those who are not new to competitive fighters, just what made you think you will play a fighting game where there will be atleast one character that is seriously good? Did you really expect to come into this and not have a character that will frustrate you? A character that people will run too in order to get their wins? A character people will use a lot cause it is not hard to use them and get a win off? As a person who plays fighting games competitively, you should know this would happen and be ready for it, just like any other competitive fighter. So I don't understand why you are wasting your time complaining about it like it's something new. Really in a game like smash.

As of now we have players taking over tournies like dabuz with Rosalina. This guy has yet to lose a tournament he has been too. Even with all these good players at them, he has yet to be taken out. So people complain about how she is cheap and etc. The reason he is winning is not solo on his character (or anyone for that matter with said over used character) The reason these guys are winning is cause people are too busy complaining about them. Complaining is not gonna do anything. Not enough people are taking the time to hit the lab hard and figure out a way to beat these characters. They try a few times, get bopped then complain like they gave it their all.

People need to not complain and hit the damm lab. learn your options. See what you are having trouble with, and experiment ways to deal with it. Change your play. Get a body and ask them to do things you have trouble. Wether a move, a type of gimmick, etc. Go learn man. I too had problems with some characters. Yet I did not sit here and cry about how they are broken, cheap, etc. I took the losses, thought about what was giving me trouble, and try many things to deal with it. Just pay attention to why I was losing and what can my character can do to limit the use of their options. Now my game is so much better vs them to a point I had a few complain about that match up too me.

This is what people need to do. This is what people seriously need to do. The game is still new, you see people running to these characters and doing stuff for the win. Take the damm time to actually look at it all and figure out stuff with your characters. Adapt. You complaining about them does NOTHING. It is not make people stop using them. It is not gonna make people not do what they do with Rosalina to get you to not complain. Hit the lab and do work. Then beat them and then have them complain about your character. Alot of people right now are not doing that. So these players using these characters are getting wins for free. or have a good shot of getting defeated but dont. if you are not use to how to deal with an option, and refuse to hit the lab, you have no right to be complaining. Cause you refuse to put in that work and take the time to learn.

This is how you get better as a player. You don't complain about a character. You don't complain how the game is compared to others smash games. I feel like comparing one smash game to the other is a waste of time and does nothing at all. This is not THAT smash game. This is THIS smash game. So put your focus on that. You can do 4 things.

- Man (or woman) up and get to work to finding out many things you can with your character and match up.

- Do what a lot do and when all fails, just used the same character you keep losing to so you can win matches and feel good about yourself as a player

- Don't play the game competitive.

- Get good with that character you are losing too to understand how they work. Learn more about their strengths and weakness. Then come up with ways to deal with it with your main. test stuff out and see what works.

Complaining about something does not help you focus. Games like this are really hard to get good at and deal with a lot of silly things most characters can do vs yours. A lot of things are not gonna be easy. That's life. And you sure a hell can't expect quick results. Just does not happen. Simple as that.

Accept the game you play. Accept what you will go through. Take loses as notes to what to expect and how to fix it. Don't be afraid to try many things. Now is not the time for you to be winning anything. it's the time for you to hit the lab and learn. To get it right, you have to get it wrong first. Remember that.

 

[SaltyKracka]

MK's totally okay, gaiz!

FTFY.

 

[popsofctown]

I like Dark Peach posts. Inspirational. I haven't run into too much whining this time around though, for whatever reason.

 

[Luggy]

Those words tells the absolute thruth, there's nothing more to say.

 

[mario123007]

I used to be frustrated when losing online not just because using new characters, I used Mario for so long online and only won a match in 1v1.I often brag how hard you can hit a opponent in the game, and how worst I am, but I never brag how OP is the character. After seeing your article @ Dark.Pch , I feel more profound of how you play,look,and treat Smash Bros and the characters.
Since Rosalina is one of my main I don't think Dabuz is keep winng tournaments by just using her, of course she is a bit powerful, but it also needs strategy in it. You cannot win by just using her. Rosalina also has her disadvantage, but Dabuz successfully overcome it, now that's what I called a pro Smash player. I really just want to fly to his house and please him to teach me.
You shouldn't scold a character like Meta Knight back in Brawl, the game has become more balanced. If I really want to hate a character, it has to be a one that I just don't think it shouldn't be in Smash Bros. Just my personal reaction.
Becoming a pro needs both prospirational inspirational. I often watch the pros Smash videos, and just look how good they are using only the 3DS controls, I know my cicle pad is a bit laggy compare to others, but I won't take it for granted that often, I will try my best to be good in Smash Bros. However, due to my schoolwork, I also have a dilemma of balancing my reality life and Smash Bros, even though I am a pro, there usn't a big communitie for me to shine here in Taiwan.
Now about the game, both 3DS and Wii U. 3DS of course I feel odd about using the circle pad ever since I start playing since we all use joystick playing Smash Bros years. If I really need to complain about this game has to be the one we all expected: no cutscenes, even no story modes. Face it guys, the only and the biggest pity of this game is no character interaction story mode. We all knew this way back last year so we are a bit used to it butcome on guys, we never get to see how the newcomers interact with the veterans, I think Smash Bros isn't just a throwdown of many Nintendo characters. Back at Brawl story mode cutscenes was the only thing that everyone loves of the game. Just look how they fit Mr.G&W and ROB in the cutscenes. It made them really IN the game, not just a gag character that we all think is weird or having "why is he here?" thought. Oh,yes,yes, Sakurai doesn't have time..... we spoiled it all..... but seriously? It is not like Sakurai is a caveman or something. I really rather please Sakurai to delay to release of Wii U version to put cut scenes in Smash Bros. This is the only thing complain about this game. ONLY this, the rest of this game are just amazing.
@ Dark.Pch , your article probably also give other users a chance for a shoutout of thier thoughts, and give some game character trashers a lesson. Love your article!

 

[Gawain]

FTFY.

Yeah I'm sorry but im gonna have to agree with this guy on this one. Pretending character imbalance doesn't exist is downright silly. I wasnt posting back then but telling folks to "lab up" Is exactly what people said about MK. And that didn't help them at all because guess what, people study the strong characters too.

Am I saying that R/L is broken? Not necessarily but what I am saying is that you shouldn't brush the idea off just because you dislike it for some reason (maining that character)

 

[T0MMY]

Accept the game you play. Accept what you will go through. Take loses as notes to what to expect and how to fix it. Don't be afraid to try many things. Now is not the time for you to be winning anything. it's the time for you to hit the lab and learn. To get it right, you have to get it wrong first. Remember that.

I agree. Simply just agree.

There's a saying I came up with after listening to so many complaints about so many things both in the Smash Community and outside of it in our daily lives, so it applies to all aspects:

"There are people who complain, and there are those who do."

 

[Emblem Lord]

damn good thread.

 

[Zenpie]

Thank you. Stop crying about the characters and get better. Are some characters broken in some fighting games, maybe yes, but that doesn't make them unbeatable.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I've personally never knew about this dark peach guy until I saw him one day on a Smash 4 stream with xD1x. I now love his posts. they make a lot of sense and are very intelligent. Why we can't we have more people posting intelligent threads like this?

I agree with Dark.Pch's post. Just because ONE character is winning most tournaments, doesn't make them unbeatable, so most shouldn't complain about it. One of the key ways to beat Rosalina is to get rid of luma. She's just like IC's. Get rid of Nana and Popo isn't as strong without her. The only difference is that Luma responds in 7 seconds, which you have plenty of time to rack up damage or KO Rosalina as fast as possible.

Whenever I use Bowser a lot, I wait until they shoot Luma out and I focus on getting Luma as far away as possible or KO luma. Once either option is done, i go after Rosalina and try to rack up as much damage as possible or KO her. True, Bowser can lose pretty easily against Rosalina, and I can't deny that. However, Bowser in Smash 4 is just like Zangief from Street Fighter; Requires patience, mix-ups, and he can live for a long time.

 

[Shiliski]

Posts like these, and the responses that follow, clearly show which ones of us are ready to reach the limits of Smash and which ones would rather john than learn.

 

[Cruncher93]

Depends on what you exactly complain about. Little Mac is terribly designed, a character with fast, hard hitting and armored ground attacks yet mostly garbage air game isn't well designed. Jigglypuff has superior air game, but if you stick to the ground you still perform, just not as good most of the time.
Both characters seem fine from a balance standpoint, but if someone wants to complain how "stupid" Mac's playstyle is, I think they have all right to do that. Just don't complain about him being unstoppable or a noob character and get better instead.

 

[RanserSSF4]

Depends on what you exactly complain about. Little Mac is terribly designed, a character with fast, hard hitting and armored ground attacks yet mostly garbage air game isn't well designed. Jigglypuff has superior air game, but if you stick to the ground you still perform, just not as good most of the time.
Both characters seem fine from a balance standpoint, but if someone wants to complain how "stupid" Mac's playstyle is, I think they have all right to do that. Just don't complain about him being unstoppable or a noob character and get better instead.

Little Mac isn't terribly designed. His design makes sense since Boxers aren't good air fighters and they're mostly ground based fighters. True, you can compare him to Balrog from SF4 since he has great air attacks, but the thing is, every balrog player barely jumps into the air because they don't want to get uppercutted/anti-aired. Same thing for Little Mac.

 

[SuaveChaser]

It is the early stages of the game i rather just try to spend my time learning the ins and outs of my characters and improve as a player the wins will come i'm not worried about that. I can understand some people getting frustrated.

 

[Cruncher93]

Little Mac isn't terribly designed. His design makes sense since Boxers aren't good air fighters and they're mostly ground based fighters. True, you can compare him to Balrog from SF4 since he has great air attacks, but the thing is, every balrog player barely jumps into the air because they don't want to get uppercutted/anti-aired. Same thing for Little Mac.

The Pokémon from the trainer in Brawl all had elemental weaknesses. It was a nice homage to the real Pokémon games, but still not really good design in a game like Smash Bros (not in the Pokémon games, of course). Flavor should always come second to gameplay. Again, I think a character being weak in the air is fine, but Little Mac has terrible movement through the air which makes landing hits unreliable, if you land those hits its only worth it for a n-air gimp.

 

[SmashWolf]

- Do what a lot do and when all fails, just used the same character you keep losing to so you can win matches and feel good about yourself as a player.

In other words......confirm that the game is terribly designed, whilst also stopping to play it for fun since you're now using a character you wouldn't have used otherwise, merely to stop losing. Remind me why you're still playing the game at this point?

- Don't play the game competitive.

In other words, give up. Kind of the opposite of what you're trying to motivate us to do.

You sure a hell can't expect quick results. Just does not happen. Simple as that.

Except some clearly DO get quick results, seeing how there's plenty of people who play the game FAR less, and far less seriously, yet still win over 90% of the time. Gee, I wonder why. Just stick with saying the game doesn't have equal opportunity for everyone.

You also forgot to mention option 5. Play a better game.

On a less harsh note, I do appreciate the attempt to calm people down. Just try not to convince the players that they should blindly accept something inherently unbalanced because it's "new". We get better games THROUGH complaining, and Smash 4 clearly has issues, no matter how blinded people might be by hype or "new game" syndrome. Remember, the only reason this game is slightly better designed than Brawl is because of people's constant ******** about it.

 

[Deleted member]

deleted

 

[SmashWolf]

Posts like yours are the reason Dark.Pch made this thread in the first place.

I was merely pointing out a flaw in his argument.

 

[Deleted member]

deleted

 

[popsofctown]

Dark Peach is encouraging you to keep a positive attitude and to see tough characters as an opportunity to overcome a challenge instead of a reason to give up and complain it's too hard. And if you don't feel that inspiration and drive to push your character to its limits where it can beat that character, then at least master the character you are losing to and stay a sharp competitor that way. You will feel much better about yourself than someone who mains Pichu and never figures out how to push Pichu to beat Fox nor plays Fox and just plays Pichu as a perennial loser and bemoans their state. Because you will be someone who uses losses as an opportunity to improve and recreate themselves and not someone who uses losses as an opportunity for anger and hopelessness and losses from then on out will be better even if there are more of them.

I'm pretty sure the part where he said "stop playing competitive" is a typo of some sort, it's clearly not in the vein of everything else in the post.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Depends on what you exactly complain about. Little Mac is terribly designed, a character with fast, hard hitting and armored ground attacks yet mostly garbage air game isn't well designed. Jigglypuff has superior air game, but if you stick to the ground you still perform, just not as good most of the time.

Both characters seem fine from a balance standpoint, but if someone wants to complain how "stupid" Mac's playstyle is, I think they have all right to do that. Just don't complain about him being unstoppable or a noob character and get better instead.

Characters Like Peach, ROB, Mario Sheik, and a few others give lil mac problems. Just because you can't figure out a solid way to deal with what he does or your character has a bad match up vs him, does not mean that he is a stupid character. Stuff like that is what I am talking about. Sorry dude but I can't agree with this at all. Cause there is a handful of characters that shut him down. People just straight up don't wanna learn how to deal with his options. Having him rolling all day each time you wanna hit him and eat Ftilts or dash attacks. Lose to it and get annoyed. Then complain about him. You chose to make him a stupid character. The game had nothing to do with it.

SmashWolf;
In other words......confirm that the game is terribly designed, whilst also stopping to play it for fun since you're now using a character you wouldn't have used otherwise, merely to stop losing. Remind me why you're still playing the game at this point?

I am not confirming that the game is bad. if you are gonna sit here all day and cry about the game or character, then pick that character up so you can win like the rest and then have no reason to shed tears. That's the point. This is aimed for people who wanna play competitive yet complain about every lil thing when it gets hard. Cause you choose to complain when things get hard does not mean the game is flawed. That's a terrible logic.

In other words, give up. Kind of the opposite of what you're trying to motivate us to do.

If you are gonna complain about the game or character while playing competitive, then don't play it. Cause its gonna get you mad and you just gonna cry about it. The heck is the point of playing a game that you are gonna go on about. You are obviously not having a good time. So in any case, just play the game just to play it. So that way, when you lose, it wont matter, you wont get pissed. Cause you gained nothing nor lost anything for it. You was not playing in a tournament to get ranked. You was not playing in the tournament to win. You was not playing in the tournament to be noticed as someone big in the community. You was just playing it to have a good time and enjoy the game stress free. That's the point. If you are not willing to accept all of what comes to playing a fighting game competitive, then just be a casual gamer. Simple as that.

Except some clearly DO get quick results, seeing how there's plenty of people who play the game FAR less, and far less seriously, yet still win over 90% of the time. Gee, I wonder why. Just stick with saying the game doesn't have equal opportunity for everyone.

Maybe because they actually spend so many hours playing the game, learning, trying out new things and also, not complaining how you can't do this and that like in the other games. And to also burst your bubble here, those who play the game far less and still win a lot, play close attention to the characters they are using. Also play close attention to the characters people are crying about. And now think about the point of this thread with the problems that occur.

Every single dam player that joins the community and has no type of health/handicap issue has an equal opportunity to be great players In w/e smash game they play. They can be the best or one of the best. But that is for the player to decided. How much they want it. How much work they are willing to put in. How much they wanna learn. A game or character does not decided that. The Player does.

You also forgot to mention option 5. Play a better game.

Then why are you even here? Think about that before you try to hit me with this one.

On a less harsh note, I do appreciate the attempt to calm people down. Just try not to convince the players that they should blindly accept something inherently unbalanced because it's "new". We get better games THROUGH complaining, and Smash 4 clearly has issues, no matter how blinded people might be by hype or "new game" syndrome. Remember, the only reason this game is slightly better designed than Brawl is because of people's constant *****ing about it.

The game just game out not too long ago. people are still learning. Even these players that are winning tournies. And because there are some hard things to deal with as of now, its unbalanced? Seriously? What makes it unbalanced then? You tell me. The fact you don't understand a match up? The fact that you don't know how to shut down an opponent who rolls a lot and beats you for it? The fact that you put tears and sweat to find answers to a lot of things and came up with nothing? (Like you seriously did that)

You know how long it too people to finally figure out how to shut down snake in brawl? People cried for days about snake and wanted him banned. It took years for people to finally man the hell up to learn how to actually put him down to a point he was not taking over results like he was before.

People thought Zelda was one of the best in the game when it game out. Because they can just throw out smash attacks, her dins fire has a big hit box, and she hits hard. But then what happen? People started to realize her weaknesses. They decided to use their brains. Now look at Zelda in brawl. One of the worst characters in the game. You see where I am going with this?

So no, its not some new game syndrome. Its people experiencing something for the first time, lose to it, then wanna complaning. Then call the game/character unbalanced and etc. All these smash games it has happened. And you don't get better games through complaining. You just come off as a spoiled player. Something is too hard so you wanna go on about it so they can make it easier for you. Go complain to your boss about your hours and pay. Come back to me and let me know how that raise went.

Yeah I'm sorry but im gonna have to agree with this guy on this one. Pretending character imbalance doesn't exist is downright silly. I wasnt posting back then but telling folks to "lab up" Is exactly what people said about MK. And that didn't help them at all because guess what, people study the strong characters too.

Am I saying that R/L is broken? Not necessarily but what I am saying is that you shouldn't brush the idea off just because you dislike it for some reason (maining that character)

And here is where I am gonna get you. Otori. He came to America. And kinda ran the train on a lot of our top USA players who you high tiers. Now Peach, a character who people say gets rekt by MK. One dude in japan, decided to just play as smart as he can and knows what he is up against. And he beat this man's MK with Peach in tournaments. In American The peach players did not really think out the box vs MK and these players. And MK just ran the train on them. That's why people stated MK destroys her. Not in japan though, cause they think out the box. a lot of high level players with high tiers could not beat this man's MK. Yet a smart dedicated soul, beat this man, with a freaking mid tier. And he as also gotten at the other MK's over there with Peach.

When People watch him play and the stuff he was doing vs MK, people picked up on it. Then we had a Peach on the WC, making tyrant sweat freaking bullets with MK for the first time. Taking him to game 5 in grand finals I believe almost winning. Having a seriously hard time beating a freaking mid tier. A match up people thought was terrible for Peach. people started changing their minds on the match up. Even Anti himself after seeing what these 2 guys were doing. Stated himself that the match up was close to even. Because none of the other peach players came close to what the Japanese did in terms of playing the match up and dealing with MK's BS.

See what I mean now? See how this all ties up to the OP? The **** never complained. That's why they are so creative. Always finding new stuff. New ways in the meta for said characters. Exploring. They are not wasting time crying like the americans are. And calling some new unbalanced or broken. The reason things as so called unbalanced or broken is cause the players allow this to happen by complaining instead of doing something about it. And that's what people need to start doing.

Get the hell up and do something about it or just dip. Simple as that.

 

[Berserker.]

Brilliant post Dark.Pch. Especially this part:

Complaining about something does not help you focus. Games like this are really hard to get good at and deal with a lot of silly things most characters can do vs yours. A lot of things are not gonna be easy. That's life. And you sure a hell can't expect quick results. Just does not happen. Simple as that.

That was an amazing way to relate this game to life. Very inspirational

 

[Cruncher93]

Characters Like Peach, ROB, Mario Sheik, and a few others give lil mac problems. Just because you can't figure out a solid way to deal with what he does or your character has a bad match up vs him, does not mean that he is a stupid character. Stuff like that is what I am talking about. Sorry dude but I can't agree with this at all. Cause there is a handful of characters that shut him down. People just straight up don't wanna learn how to deal with his options. Having him rolling all day each time you wanna hit him and eat Ftilts or dash attacks. Lose to it and get annoyed. Then complain about him. You chose to make him a stupid character. The game had nothing to do with it.

You misunderstood my point. I have no problem with Mac when playing, I actually like to play with him and just stopped maining him because my buddy got frustrated against him. It only baffles me how the developers decided that such a polarizing character would be healthy for the game, as we can see many others just getting frustrated playing versus him.

 

[Meru.]

Yeah I'm sorry but im gonna have to agree with this guy on this one. Pretending character imbalance doesn't exist is downright silly. I wasnt posting back then but telling folks to "lab up" Is exactly what people said about MK. And that didn't help them at all because guess what, people study the strong characters too.

Am I saying that R/L is broken? Not necessarily but what I am saying is that you shouldn't brush the idea off just because you dislike it for some reason (maining that character)

This isn't a fair comparison. If you want to compare Rosalina to a Brawl character, then it should be Snake. In the first few months, Snake was considered to be the strongest character, and why wouldn't he be? His tilts were fast, had outrageous range and very strong, his camping game was great, he didn't die, he killed super early, he did a lot of damage... There was almost nothing that could hold him down. However, people didn't fear immediately that they have one overpowered character in the game because they mostly compared Brawl to its predecessor, Melee, where there wasn't (and still isn't) one character who is overwhelmingly more powerful. Surely Fox was ridiculous, but Falco, Sheik and Marth were just as ridiculous, and Peach, Falcon, Jiggly and ICs were all considered high tier characters that could easily compete with the top tier. People didn't just assume one character was much stronger than the other, even when Meta Knight was acknowledged to be the first many people still thought Snake was very close to him. After a couple of years however, after people had had long enough time to hit the lab and come up with strategies to counter him, it became plain obvious that Meta Knight was broken.

This game, on the other hand, has not even been out for a month. There are still plenty of tricks to discover, so I think it's valid to tell people to "lab up" and then judge. Rosalina might be broken, she might also be not, but it's too early to say. Fearing and complaining that the game might become like its predecessor, which is Brawl in this case, isn't going to help a whole lot.

That said everybody still has their own right to complain, but it's probably not going to help anyone out a lot, or make anyone's day better, and that's what this post is about.

 

[Judo777]

should have ended with TL:DR No Johns!

lol

 

[mahkan]

Thank you for taking the time to write this inspirational post.

 

[PCHU]

Back in Brawl, I played a fair bit of Kirby, and some Lucas and Ness on occasion.
It was a little tough at times, but I never felt like those characters were so outmatched by speed and range and priority that I couldn't fight back.
Now, the whole game feels faster, but there are a select few that seem to just soar above the others in general speed, and I don't see why that change wasn't universal.
I'd be totally okay with low mobility if I had the option to actually deal with rushdown characters, but the grab nerf (in both range and lack of superarmor) ends up in me "breaking away" from characters and just resetting the neutral.
My tilts aren't long enough for spacing to actually do anything because their endlag is easily punishable by a dash -> grab/dash attack/usmash, and I can't land with any of my aerials safely because I lack the range to properly space so I don't get punished on block; all of my aerials have unreasonable endlag and I'm told that "This is just the way the game is".
I can't even neutralize projectiles with tilts anymore, so most of the match is pretty much me going through an obstacle course.

I don't mind going to the lab if I feel that it will actually help (and it has before), but when a game ceases to be fun by playing who I want (which Brawl was actually okay in balance, so I thought this game would be better), I don't see the point.
Every match is like a waiting game rather than something I can actually interact with, and I can't help but keep playing because it's the only thing anyone else is going to care about.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You misunderstood my point. I have no problem with Mac when playing, I actually like to play with him and just stopped maining him because my buddy got frustrated against him. It only baffles me how the developers decided that such a polarizing character would be healthy for the game, as we can see many others just getting frustrated playing versus him.

AS I stated before. Fighting games are gonna have characters like that. There is no escape from that. Characters will have bad things about them. And some will have good. That's just how it is. The closest thing to a balanced fighter is:

​

So you should really expect this by now with fighters. The question you need to ask yourself when you play a fighter is are you willing to put up with and the hard stuff it will through at you. If you don't want to deal with it, then you don't have to. You can just play to play or just don't bother playing the game at all.

And you also need to keep in mind match ups. Some character do better/worst then others. Another typical concept of fighters. There is really no escape from such a thing.

Back in Brawl, I played a fair bit of Kirby, and some Lucas and Ness on occasion.
It was a little tough at times, but I never felt like those characters were so outmatched by speed and range and priority that I couldn't fight back.
Now, the whole game feels faster, but there are a select few that seem to just soar above the others in general speed, and I don't see why that change wasn't universal.
I'd be totally okay with low mobility if I had the option to actually deal with rushdown characters, but the grab nerf (in both range and lack of superarmor) ends up in me "breaking away" from characters and just resetting the neutral.
My tilts aren't long enough for spacing to actually do anything because their endlag is easily punishable by a dash -> grab/dash attack/usmash, and I can't land with any of my aerials safely because I lack the range to properly space so I don't get punished on block; all of my aerials have unreasonable endlag and I'm told that "This is just the way the game is".
I can't even neutralize projectiles with tilts anymore, so most of the match is pretty much me going through an obstacle course.

I don't mind going to the lab if I feel that it will actually help (and it has before), but when a game ceases to be fun by playing who I want (which Brawl was actually okay in balance, so I thought this game would be better), I don't see the point.
Every match is like a waiting game rather than something I can actually interact with, and I can't help but keep playing because it's the only thing anyone else is going to care about.

If a game is not fun cause you feel you can't play who you want then that's fine. And you don't have to play it. And it really should not matter at all if this is the only thing everyone else is going to care about. You are not playing for them. You are not playing for their approval. You are playing for yourself. Don't do something you don't like to do when you have a choose to not do it. Playing something else that you feel you have more freedom. People don't like every single video game that is out. There are all types of games for all people of said taste and preference. Don't try to be like the so called cool kids and do what they are all doing. Do you.

 

[Luggy]

I think the problem with people is : they don't always put their faults on themselves, but rather on something else.
For example, people that loses to Little Mac and complains about him will often only put the fault on the character rather than their plays, wich won't help them getting better at the game.

The best way to progress is to take his faults and correct them, not whinning and do nothing. No characters are better than others, and if you lose, it's your fault and nothing else. Your opponent did what he needed to win, it's not the character or the game that made him win.

We should remove the word "Over Powered" in our Smash 4 vocabulary and add instead "Good Character". Whinning about something won't do anything in this world, but doing something however is the right way. Improve your game, improve your way to think about a character ! Don't say "This character is too good", but say "This guy playing this character is great !" !

Charlie Chaplin said : "Imagination means nothing without doing.". You want to see someone find a way to beat those characters ? Do it. Find a way to fight them and then your imagination meant something.

 

[BSP]

Peach Example
.

Agree completely. There's also the case with double MK in doubles. We banned it here in the U.S., while in Japan, double Wario and Wario/MK were just as scary, if not worse. A Lucario and Lucas team started taking doubles tournaments too, even over double MK teams IIRC.

 

[dbwithlemon]

I think the problem with people is : they don't always put their faults on themselves, but rather on something else.
For example, people that loses to Little Mac and complains about him will often only put the fault on the character rather than their plays, wich won't help them getting better at the game.

The best way to progress is to take his faults and correct them, not whinning and do nothing. No characters are better than others, and if you lose, it's your fault and nothing else. Your opponent did what he needed to win, it's not the character or the game that made him win.

We should remove the word "Over Powered" in our Smash 4 vocabulary and add instead "Good Character". Whinning about something won't do anything in this world, but doing something however is the right way. Improve your game, improve your way to think about a character ! Don't say "This character is too good", but say "This guy playing this character is great !" !

Charlie Chaplin said : "Imagination means nothing without doing.". You want to see someone find a way to beat those characters ? Do it. Find a way to fight them and then your imagination meant something.

While I agree with you mostly, some characters are absolutely better than others. That being said, this isn't a game of like-minded robots, player skill is a huge impact.

A good player with a bad character will beat a bad player with an "OP" character almost every time.
Even if your opponent is using a character you consider "OP", who cares, it will make the victory all the more sweet when you win.
If the power truly is in the character and not the player, then that player won't get any better and will stagnate, while a good player will get stronger.

 

[Shiliski]

The problem I have with the concept of determining "bad matchups" about a month into the game is this: What is or is not considered a bad matchup can change over time.

A few weeks ago, as a RosaLuma main, I used to have big problems with rushdown characters like ZSS and Sheik. I sincerely thought they were just straight-up bad matchups for Rosa. Yet, in the past week or so, after improving my play and learning how to deal with the characters, I find that I simply don't have trouble with ZSS or Sheik anymore. They are a tricky matchup and they need to be dealt with in a certain way, true, but once you know their gimmicks and know what to look out for, the matchups can actually be pretty winnable. "Oh, ZSS is using her down B again. I guess I'll move over to the side and charge my F-smash for when she lands."

These days I have more trouble with Greninjas, because his anti-air game is strong, but I'm sure with more experience I'll learn how to deal with his amazing Up Smash, too.

Today we freak out over the OP character of the week, but tomorrow we'll find out some way around their gimmick and suddenly it's no longer a problem. Sure, there was the case of Meta Knight, but there was also the case of Melee Captain Falcon who some people once thought was god-tier and now he's not even considered high tier. When it comes to claims of OP, there are way more false positives than there are legitimate concerns.

 

[MechWarriorNY]

*Obligatory joke about it being you that made this thread*
Agreed completely.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I really just want to fly to his house and please him to teach me.

Is that so...

 

[Salaad]

While I agree with you mostly, some characters are absolutely better than others. That being said, this isn't a game of like-minded robots, player skill is a huge impact.

A good player with a bad character will beat a bad player with an "OP" character almost every time.
Even if your opponent is using a character you consider "OP", who cares, it will make the victory all the more sweet when you win.
If the power truly is in the character and not the player, then that player won't get any better and will stagnate, while a good player will get stronger.

Yeah, I remember back during Melee Fox and Falco were dominating until someone figured out you can chain grab them with marth, and people were innovating his playstyle. The game just needs time, and people need to figure things out before complaining. Although I haven't played for myself(yet) so I'll reserve judgement. :D

 

[RanserSSF4]

I definitly agree that Smash 4 has problems indeed. My two biggest complaints in Smash 4 are the huge blastzones and vectoring.

I still like the game and I'm adapting to it. The problem, however, is that I don't play it a lot on 3DS due to how limited my movement is with the 3DS controls. The only exceptions are training mode and unlocking custom moves. Once we get the Wii U version. Our movement will be a lot easier and the movement options we found so far might be more usefu since the "no random tripping" mechanic is gone in Smash 4, if you don't include moves that cause tripping.

I do agree though that most people should stop complaining about characters being OP atm. Rosalina is not unbeatable. She can be hard to deal with, but once you know her gimmicks and techs, you can beat her.

 

[StarshipGroove]

Well said.
Another important thing: after you lose at a tournament, go on your character's subforum to rant about how your main has top tier potential and defend her honor. Insist that could have won that matchup easily, but you didn't train enough, that "it's not her, it's me" and that you will do better for her sake. Be as emo and annoying as possible.

Just kidding.

 

[TimeSmash]

Rosalina and Sheik are by no means the new MK. Aside from that though, complaining is all well and good for a little bit but then you end up spending more time ******** about the problem than needed. You could have been using that time to solve the problem! If Rosalina or whoever does turn out to be the next MK, okay then we go from there. Maybe she'll get banned we have no way of knowing yet. By not experimenting at all you don't find out things like vectoring, pivot stuff, or Toss Lag Cancelling, among many other weird glitchy things that have been found in this game already. If you're not willing to do research, don't get mad when you don't get results.

 

[otter]

Characters Like Peach, ROB, Mario Sheik, and a few others give lil mac problems. Just because you can't figure out a solid way to deal with what he does or your character has a bad match up vs him, does not mean that he is a stupid character. Stuff like that is what I am talking about. Sorry dude but I can't agree with this at all. Cause there is a handful of characters that shut him down. People just straight up don't wanna learn how to deal with his options. Having him rolling all day each time you wanna hit him and eat Ftilts or dash attacks. Lose to it and get annoyed. Then complain about him. You chose to make him a stupid character. The game had nothing to do with it.

I think the problem with people is : they don't always put their faults on themselves, but rather on something else.
For example, people that loses to Little Mac and complains about him will often only put the fault on the character rather than their plays, wich won't help them getting better at the game.

The best way to progress is to take his faults and correct them, not whinning and do nothing. No characters are better than others, and if you lose, it's your fault and nothing else. Your opponent did what he needed to win, it's not the character or the game that made him win.

We should remove the word "Over Powered" in our Smash 4 vocabulary and add instead "Good Character". Whinning about something won't do anything in this world, but doing something however is the right way. Improve your game, improve your way to think about a character ! Don't say "This character is too good", but say "This guy playing this character is great !" !

Charlie Chaplin said : "Imagination means nothing without doing.". You want to see someone find a way to beat those characters ? Do it. Find a way to fight them and then your imagination meant something.

You guys are not seeing the point. you don't have to be losing to little mac to realize that he's a complete failure of game design. Those are two totally seperate issues. Little mac isn't even a strong character anyway, which makes this argument even more strange.

Don't mean to take it out on you, but this argument is really common and really illogical. You can dislike vectoring but still set aside 8 seconds to understand it and win with it. You really think people are so shallow that they only dislike a feature if they're losing and vice versa?

 

[Jackson]

Good post, I agree. We don't even know that much about the game yet.