A New Wah-volution!: NEW Waluigi Support Thread

7NATOR

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I think a valuable lesson we have learned recently is that old rumors should absolutely not be trashed. I'm willing to bet at this point that reservations for a "second pass" were always in the works, whether they were originally planned as stand alone packs or not. I just can't see why Minecraft Steve would be planned since literally 2015 yet, he wasn't "decided on" until Fighter Pass 2 was greenlit.

Therefore, this insistence that Waluigi was "leakbait" for Byleth and such are very...honestly, downright silly conclusions to make at this point. Leakbait has consistently been a subject of debate since 2018 and we see time and time again that leakbait itself is rarely EVER an actual thing and the only instance we can still think of at this point would be the seven rumored square character leaks from 2018.

Also, let's not forget that, even if Minecraft Steve was leakbait (he wasn't), Waluigi is one of the WORST options for leakbait Nintendo could ever use. Leakbait is intended to be used as something that can fish out who is dispelling private information to the public. What do you think is a better idea, using Minecraft Steve, the main character of one of the best selling games of all time and a brand new third party inclusion that builds relationships with Mojang and Microsoft, as a "leakbait" character to find out who is revealing information, or Waluigi, a character who 75 percent of the Smash community still thinks is "hard deconfirmed" due to being an Assist Trophy, to the point where many of the people who HEAR Waluigi information immediately excuse it as bunk because he's just an "unrealizable" character.

That's simply not smart. Using an unrealizable character for leakbait isn't productive because it will actively detract from what the goal of leakbait is, to find out who is spilling the beans. By using a character like Waluigi as leakbait, you're pretty much making it much harder for yourself for that leakbait to catch anyone in the act, because a lot of these said "leakers" just won't believe and therefore won't dispel the information they are given anyways.

Also, a good quote from Xenother over on the Geno thread remarks that Three Houses content was arguably known and discussed within circles since 2018 as well. I can also personally vouch that I heard multiple rumors of a three houses stage and associated content back in the late fall/winter last year. We incorrectly assumed it to be standalone DLC that would not be included with a fighter, but this has been a long journey of incorrect assumptions all around, and things are definitely steadily changing in speculation.

Why is this important? Well, because it proves that first party DLC can indeed leak, even if to a much lesser extent than third parties.

TL, DR? Minecraft Steve's addition, funnily enough, makes me way way more confident that Waluigi is a matter of time, not a matter of if.

Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
Considering How Sakurai Stress the amount of Programming needed to be done, and how Complicated Steve is, along with the fact that Sakurai talked about "Do you know what type of game Minecraft is", Steve was, probably at the time, To Complicated to Put into the roster. There was no way a character like Steve would be in base roster for one thing, considering that gotta add as many newcomers as they can and make a full game along with that

and some of that Sentiment probably went towards FP1 as well. It seems that with FP2, Sakurai was finally willing to try his hand at Implementing Steve and that's when talks for Steve could finally finish, but I don't think Steve took 5 years of straight negotiating. There was probably a good amount of Time of Dead air going on.

As for Waluigi being leakbait, you could kind of make the opposite argument that Waluigi is so "outlandish as a character" that anyone that "leaked him" would obviously have a radar on them. I don't know if that's how it went down, but that's just an arguement

But I think Overall, Waluigi came out with More going for him after this week honestly. A Big part of that is Bomberman
 

Karen6969

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It’s nice to see this thread so active lately. Who would’ve thought that Steve (and associated Mii costume, Bomberman) of all characters would give us hope for Waluigi?

Waluigi time is in the air, it’s only a matter of time now.
 

kaithehedgefox

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2) Sakurai’s comments during Steve’s reveal- he basically confirmed to us that if Nintendo wants a character, that character happens. Now, why would Nintendo want a character? The 2 reasons that come to mind for me are either for advertising, or for profit potential (like Steve). Waluigi definitely falls into the profit category as well, after E3 2018 I’m sure they are well aware of how much money they can make from a Waluigi DLC. Not to mention, all of these pictures, polls, gifs, etc of Waluigi by Nintendo seem to imply that they actually like him now.
So would Waluigi be a bonus DLC, or would he be one of 4 remaining challenger packs?
 

Dorayaki

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2) Sakurai’s comments during Steve’s reveal- he basically confirmed to us that if Nintendo wants a character, that character happens. Now, why would Nintendo want a character? The 2 reasons that come to mind for me are either for advertising, or for profit potential (like Steve). Waluigi definitely falls into the profit category as well
Sorry but I think this arguments falls too far behind. The direct clearly claimed that Minecraft is a big inclusion as the best selling game franchise, which cannot correlate to Waluigi's chance on the table. Claiming that Waluigi's inclusion has same impact as Steve is objectively false.

Waluigi matters as a first party character and a main character to his series, I think that is enough to consist of his qualification for Mario rep in Smash. Like some others said, it's a matter of when more than he will be in or not.

I agree that the point has been around whether NIntendo want to promote Waluigi or not, and how they feel about Waluigi's positon in Smash bros as well as Mario games.
 

Karen6969

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Sorry but I think this arguments falls too far behind. The direct clearly claimed that Minecraft is a big inclusion as the best selling game franchise, which cannot correlate to Waluigi's chance on the table. Claiming that Waluigi's inclusion has same impact as Steve is objectively false.

Waluigi matters as a first party character and a main character to his series, I think that is enough to consist of his qualification for Mario rep in Smash. Like some others said, it's a matter of when more than he will be in or not.

I agree that the point has been around whether NIntendo want to promote Waluigi or not, and how they feel about Waluigi's positon in Smash bros as well as Mario games.
Where did I claim that Waluigi would have the same impact as Steve? I said that as far as DLC is concerned the reasoning for both of them falls into the same category- popularity. Obviously Steve and Minecraft in general are much more popular than Waluigi, never said they weren’t.


Im with TX-55 on this, I’d really love to know how you come to some of these conclusions. I agree with the rest of your post but I honestly have no clue how you processed that first paragraph
 
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walugurl

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I think a valuable lesson we have learned recently is that old rumors should absolutely not be trashed. I'm willing to bet at this point that reservations for a "second pass" were always in the works, whether they were originally planned as stand alone packs or not. I just can't see why Minecraft Steve would be planned since literally 2015 yet, he wasn't "decided on" until Fighter Pass 2 was greenlit.

Therefore, this insistence that Waluigi was "leakbait" for Byleth and such are very...honestly, downright silly conclusions to make at this point. Leakbait has consistently been a subject of debate since 2018 and we see time and time again that leakbait itself is rarely EVER an actual thing and the only instance we can still think of at this point would be the seven rumored square character leaks from 2018.

Also, let's not forget that, even if Minecraft Steve was leakbait (he wasn't), Waluigi is one of the WORST options for leakbait Nintendo could ever use. Leakbait is intended to be used as something that can fish out who is dispelling private information to the public. What do you think is a better idea, using Minecraft Steve, the main character of one of the best selling games of all time and a brand new third party inclusion that builds relationships with Mojang and Microsoft, as a "leakbait" character to find out who is revealing information, or Waluigi, a character who 75 percent of the Smash community still thinks is "hard deconfirmed" due to being an Assist Trophy, to the point where many of the people who HEAR Waluigi information immediately excuse it as bunk because he's just an "unrealizable" character.

That's simply not smart. Using an unrealizable character for leakbait isn't productive because it will actively detract from what the goal of leakbait is, to find out who is spilling the beans. By using a character like Waluigi as leakbait, you're pretty much making it much harder for yourself for that leakbait to catch anyone in the act, because a lot of these said "leakers" just won't believe and therefore won't dispel the information they are given anyways.

Also, a good quote from Xenother over on the Geno thread remarks that Three Houses content was arguably known and discussed within circles since 2018 as well. I can also personally vouch that I heard multiple rumors of a three houses stage and associated content back in the late fall/winter last year. We incorrectly assumed it to be standalone DLC that would not be included with a fighter, but this has been a long journey of incorrect assumptions all around, and things are definitely steadily changing in speculation.

Why is this important? Well, because it proves that first party DLC can indeed leak, even if to a much lesser extent than third parties.

TL, DR? Minecraft Steve's addition, funnily enough, makes me way way more confident that Waluigi is a matter of time, not a matter of if.

Thank you for listening to my TED talk.
Waluigi (if he is in the pass) was already leaked by Paragon last year a few days before E3 happen. He got the smash reveals and Breath of the wild 2 info and that’s exactly what we got. I heard he got a c&d, I don’t know how true that is though.
 

Karen6969

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If they did make a mii costume, he would have to be heavily stylized like skull kid.
I can’t see them making him into a deluxe Mii costume. I’d accept it if they did, but Waluigi simply is not Waluigi without the goofy “Wah!” And “oh yeah!”, and “Waluigi number one!”... I think he’s just simply too loud and animated of a character to make into a costume. It would defeat the whole purpose of Waluigi
 
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Fatmanonice

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Hey Fatmanonice Fatmanonice , quick question for you because I’m curious since I know you used to toss around the idea of Waluigi being a bonus fighter. After Steve and the bomberman costume, where does he fall in your predictions if at all?
I've never removed him. Waluigi has been one of my predictions since last fall but how he would come has changed. The evidence was there that 6 was going to be a purely first party and, based on a number of factors including the fact that Waluigi was pretty much the only first party character heard by pretty much everyone, it seemed like a slam dunk but... Min Min. Despite that, Waluigi's case has gotten more interesting since Min-Min:

-A random new stage happened. There's been talks for a long time of the strong possibility of a second ala carte character like Plant so this happening was very interesting because...

-With the addition of Steve, there's currently 7 empty stage spots on the stage select screen. Coincidentally, enough for the 4 remaining packs plus 3 more. As a reminder, in January 2019, 16 dummyslots were found in the game's code before Plant was added. Plant + Fighter's Pass + Season 2 = 12, so four remaining but only 3 stage spots...

-Min Min and Steve saw three more popular ATs get turned into Mii costumes: Callie, Marie, and Bomberman. Waluigi is now one of the only super popular ATs without a true Mii costume.

-Steve coming true brings the other main characters rumored in 2018 (Geno, Waluigi, Lloyd, and Ryu) into a whole new light.

-Bomberman's Mii costume is basically the AT put on a functional skeleton, showing it to be something pretty simple for the developers to do.

-If COVID hadn't ****ed everything up and Min Min hadn't been delayed, we have strong evidence that Min-Min would have been an April release, Steve probably June or July, and 8 September like Joker, Hero, and Banjo before them. Hell of a coincidence that early September had a major Mario tournament that was postponed to November.

So, in summary, I still think he's coming and I think there's a strong possibility of him being Season 2's Plant, I just don't have a solid idea when.
 

Karen6969

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I've never removed him. Waluigi has been one of my predictions since last fall but how he would come has changed. The evidence was there that 6 was going to be a purely first party and, based on a number of factors including the fact that Waluigi was pretty much the only first party character heard by pretty much everyone, it seemed like a slam dunk but... Min Min. Despite that, Waluigi's case has gotten more interesting since Min-Min:

-A random new stage happened. There's been talks for a long time of the strong possibility of a second ala carte character like Plant so this happening was very interesting because...

-With the addition of Steve, there's currently 7 empty stage spots on the stage select screen. Coincidentally, enough for the 4 remaining packs plus 3 more. As a reminder, in January 2019, 16 dummyslots were found in the game's code before Plant was added. Plant + Fighter's Pass + Season 2 = 12, so four remaining but only 3 stage spots...

-Min Min and Steve saw three more popular ATs get turned into Mii costumes: Callie, Marie, and Bomberman. Waluigi is now one of the only super popular ATs without a true Mii costume.

-Steve coming true brings the other main characters rumored in 2018 (Geno, Waluigi, Lloyd, and Ryu) into a whole new light.

-Bomberman's Mii costume is basically the AT put on a functional skeleton, showing it to be something pretty simple for the developers to do.

-If COVID hadn't ****ed everything up and Min Min hadn't been delayed, we have strong evidence that Min-Min would have been an April release, Steve probably June or July, and 8 September like Joker, Hero, and Banjo before them. Hell of a coincidence that early September had a major Mario tournament that was postponed to November.

So, in summary, I still think he's coming and I think there's a strong possibility of him being Season 2's Plant, I just don't have a solid idea when.
Yeah, when you lay everything out like that it really does make Waluigi seem more likely than the “assist trophy deconfirm” crowd gives him credit for. Personally I’ve been on the Waluigi being a bonus theory train for awhile... but I do wonder if he was intended to be standalone like Plant and then at some point they decided to just threw him onto the pass instead, which would explain why season 2 has 6 fighters instead of 5 like season 1.
 
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kaithehedgefox

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Yeah, when you lay everything out like that it really does make Waluigi seem more likely than the “assist trophy deconfirm” crowd gives him credit for. Personally I’ve been on the Waluigi being a bonus theory train for awhile... but I do wonder if he was intended to be standalone like Plant and then at some point they decided to just threw him onto the pass instead, which would explain why season 2 has 6 fighters instead of 5 like season 1.
Piranha Plant was originally intended to be in the base game, but it got released as Free DLC because of time management issues.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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There's absolutely reason to be scared of Geno effecting Waluigi's chances, but if both Steve and Banjo can get in, I think both Waluigi and Geno can get in - that being said, if there's 6 FP2 characters and 2 of them are Mario characters, some people aren't gonna be happy - even if one is so far removed from the Mario series as we know it today he's basically part of his own IP - remember, we got 2 FE characters in 3DS/Wii U's DLC, 3 Marios is anything but outlandish, regardless of how you may feel about it.
 

Karen6969

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I think after having a few days to let the Bomberman assist trophy being ported to being a mii costume set in, I have come up with a few takeaways.

1) assist trophy deconfirm theory is dead. I think it was already dead after Springman, but now that we see that you can in fact play as a character with an identical render to their corresponding assist trophy there is no longer any reason to believe in that fan rule.

2) the smash team is interested in giving popular assist trophies some sort of upgrade in order to please their fans. I think the team understands that a massive chunk of the player base doesn't play with items on, so their favorite character being an AT effectively means that they never see them in-game. This leads me to point number 3...

3) If Bomberman got a promotion from assist trophy to deluxe mii costume, then surely we will see at least the same treatment for Waluigi (and probably Isaac). I say at least, because Waluigi is much more popular than Bomberman, and to be honest I don't think his render would fit on the brawler model very well, so if they choose Waluigi for one of these promotions I could very well see them making him a full fighter rather than a costume. Basically, all I am trying to say here is that if Bomberman got a promotion from assist trophy to deluxe mii, then I think the much larger fanbase for Waluigi warrants a full-fledged Waluigi fighter, proportionally.

There's absolutely reason to be scared of Geno effecting Waluigi's chances, but if both Steve and Banjo can get in, I think both Waluigi and Geno can get in - that being said, if there's 6 FP2 characters and 2 of them are Mario characters, some people aren't gonna be happy - even if one is so far removed from the Mario series as we know it today he's basically part of his own IP - remember, we got 2 FE characters in 3DS/Wii U's DLC, 3 Marios is anything but outlandish, regardless of how you may feel about it.
You are right, but the thing about Geno is this- he took a bit of a hit to his speculation after fighter 7 was not him, whether Geno fans want to admit it or not... seven theory is dead, and the infamous tweets from Imran and Grubb back in July the night before the partner showcase are no longer relevant. People kept holding onto those because they swore they were hinting at Geno being the next fighter and they just had the type of direct wrong... but now that Geno was not in fact the next fighter those aren't relevant. The remaining speculation for Geno has a massive overlap with speculation for Waluigi, AND assist trophy deconfirm rule is gone. I really see them as a 50-50 chance with each other. We will see the speculation for Waluigi grow massively in the coming weeks/months after the popular smash speculation YouTubers cover why the Bomberman costume was so important for Waluigi/why it killed the assist trophy deconfirm once and for all. Once people find out that wanting Waluigi isn't beating a dead horse anymore, I think we will see him creep is way back into the forefront of speculation.


The funny part is the biggest fears of the Geno fanbase are seeing his mii costume return, which is a very real possibility since they have been slowly drip-feeding the returning mii costumes to us, OR seeing Waluigi get added. And now we share the SAME fears because the biggest deconfirms left for Waluigi are him getting a similar treatment to Bomberman and being added as a mii costume, OR seeing Geno get added. I really do think we will see either a full Waluigi or Geno fighter with the other being a costume... just not sure which or when.
 

Karen6969

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BTW, I recently discovered this (no-no word warning) https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d_4uuic2xo8bZhwzJkmZtQfWFent4x8erWdd2KPqrNM/mobilebasic

I'm not sure if it's just inspect element at play, or if it's old news here - but it still seems pretty big if true.
Yeah, this is part of the reason that I think we will see at least either Waluigi or Geno as DLC.
Yeah, and a deluxe costume "upgrade" wouldn't make sense for a character like Isaac who can easily be recreated as a Mii without messing around with eyebrows or anything like that.
This is true, I forgot about Isaac's existing costume. Interestingly you can make a similar argument for Waluigi since you can make his face decently enough and combined with his hat you can already have a decent Waluigi mii sans overalls. If Waluigi is chosen for a promotion I'm leaning more and more towards him being a full fighter, not a deluxe costume.
 

Wario Wario Wario

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Well, a Waluigi Mii isn't that easy to make within Nintendo's intended limitations. I know a LOT about Mii making, so trust me on this:


Moustache is made of eyebrows; nose is half-nose half-glasses; chin is a moustache


Mostly uses everything as Nintendo intendo- I mean intended, but the moustache is glasses and an actual moustache is used for his chin.

Nintendo are pretty strict on how Miis' facial features are to be used in promo material, for example:


most Inkling Miis that aren't copying the official Nintendo Mii use a moustache between the eyes to create the mask.


Toad's Mii forces in a nose as opposed to hiding it inside the mouth.


Geno's Mii doesn't use eyebrows for the seams (not sure if that'd be the right term) under his eyes.

Now that "deluxe" Mii costumes seem to be a fixture, as evidenced by the high amount of them releasing alongside Steve, there's no real need for costumes like this for characters who have features not of ordinary humans. I wouldn't be too surprised to see a WaluigMii costume, but however given how major a part of Waluigi's design his proportions are, I don't think we can count on it luckily.
 
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Wario Wario Wario

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Thought this was interesting.

Bum-based badness?

BUM-BASED BADNESS?

BUM-BASED BADNESS?

Oh wait, they're talking about Wario; that makes more sense. Should've read the whole thing.
 
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Karen6969

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If they do end up adding Waluigi, I really hope they add in the long forgotten Waluigi song- Waluigi Stadium. I know Waluigi Pinball is more popular but I feel like Waluigi Stadium is criminally slept on and honestly my favorite of the 2 (it's also more nostalgic for me since it's from double-dash, which I grew up playing). Random post I know, I just get tired of people saying stuff like "Waluigi's one song is already in the game!"
 

Karen6969

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I just realized something. A lot of people think that steve was supposed to be an E3 reveal, and fighter 8 would have been a second E3 reveal. So... in Steve's reveal, who was the only character that they used in the animated portion? Mario. Who was the only character who had recorded voice lines in the trailer? Mario. Who voices Mario? Charles Martinet. Charles Martinet also voices Waluigi. If Waluigi is fighter 8, and was also intended to be a second E3 reveal, Charles would have already been in/around the studio recording for his voice lines.... which would make for a convenient excuse to go ahead and use Mario for the Steve trailer.


Obviously there are reasons other than convenience that they would use Mario for a reveal trailer, but would they really go through the trouble of getting him to record voice lines for a 3-minute trailer? I'm thinking it's possible that he may have already been around while working on something else.
 

Chocosta

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I just realized something. A lot of people think that steve was supposed to be an E3 reveal, and fighter 8 would have been a second E3 reveal. So... in Steve's reveal, who was the only character that they used in the animated portion? Mario. Who was the only character who had recorded voice lines in the trailer? Mario. Who voices Mario? Charles Martinet. Charles Martinet also voices Waluigi. If Waluigi is fighter 8, and was also intended to be a second E3 reveal, Charles would have already been in/around the studio recording for his voice lines.... which would make for a convenient excuse to go ahead and use Mario for the Steve trailer.


Obviously there are reasons other than convenience that they would use Mario for a reveal trailer, but would they really go through the trouble of getting him to record voice lines for a 3-minute trailer? I'm thinking it's possible that he may have already been around while working on something else.
Mario didn't had any voice line. I think they just used Mario voice clips from Brawl/Ultimate for the trailer
 

Karen6969

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Mario didn't had any voice line. I think they just used Mario voice clips from Brawl/Ultimate for the trailer
Mario has always been one of my secondaries and I don’t think I recognized the sounds/grunts as being the same. They could have been from something like Subspace Emissary I guess, I might not have recognized them if they were from there
 

BigZGaming2015

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Mario has always been one of my secondaries and I don’t think I recognized the sounds/grunts as being the same. They could have been from something like Subspace Emissary I guess, I might not have recognized them if they were from there
Their was one grunt from where he stood up and was fixing his cap that sounded new to me, but the rest were his normal grunts already in the game
 

Karen6969

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Their was one grunt from where he stood up and was fixing his cap that sounded new to me, but the rest were his normal grunts already in the game
Yeah that’s the one I was thinking of. After relistening to it they are all his grunts from the game except for that one. That one almost sounded like a grunt from Super Mario Sunshine, but I don’t think the smash team would have that on hand
 
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TX-55

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If they do end up adding Waluigi, I really hope they add in the long forgotten Waluigi song- Waluigi Stadium. I know Waluigi Pinball is more popular but I feel like Waluigi Stadium is criminally slept on and honestly my favorite of the 2 (it's also more nostalgic for me since it's from double-dash, which I grew up playing). Random post I know, I just get tired of people saying stuff like "Waluigi's one song is already in the game!"
I also love Mario Kart Double Dash, ever since I played that game, Waluigi has been my favorite Mario character.

Honestly, Waluigi Stadium should get a big band remix.
Like this one:
 

Karen6969

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I also love Mario Kart Double Dash, ever since I played that game, Waluigi has been my favorite Mario character.

Honestly, Waluigi Stadium should get a big band remix.
Like this one:
Oh, that’s interesting. I saw that the title was Wario Colosseum, yet I heard the Waluigi Stadium music. After looking it up, I discovered that both tracks use the exact same music! I guess I either never noticed that as a kid or just associated it with Waluigi Stadium primarily, which would make since given that Waluigi is my favorite character haha
 
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GoodGrief741

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Yeah that’s the one I was thinking of. After relistening to it they are all his grunts from the game except for that one. That one almost sounded like a grunt from Super Mario Sunshine, but I don’t think the smash team would have that on hand
I don't see why they wouldn't. Nintendo probably has a library of Mario sounds that every team has access to.
 

kaithehedgefox

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I had an idea lately, If Waluigi gets promoted to playable in Smash 6, they could demote Piranha Plant to a non-fighter spirit, and make Piranha Plant one of Waluigi's special moves.
 

Karen6969

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I had an idea lately, If Waluigi gets promoted to playable in Smash 6, they could demote Piranha Plant to a non-fighter spirit, and make Piranha Plant one of Waluigi's special moves.
Not sure if you’ve played it before but Super Smash Flash 2 has Waluigi as a playable fighter and he uses plant as a special move on there!

that’s how it should be, honestly. Looking back on it I have no idea how we ended up with a playable piranha plant while Waluigi gets to enjoy his 3rd stay in assist trophy hell.
 

Chocosta

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What about Waluigi's Island ? Since Waluigi Pinball is already in the game, the music I want the most right now is WI from Mario Party 3, that might be due to nostalgia or because the music is just great. Hell, I'd like a Waluigi's Island board to be in Waluigi's pass but I know they will just go with either Waluigi's tennis court or Pinball. Destruction Dance is another must-have.

that’s how it should be, honestly. Looking back on it I have no idea how we ended up with a playable piranha plant while Waluigi gets to enjoy his 3rd stay in assist trophy hell.
Because Nintendo was like : unexpected plant goes smash because hahaha funny wtf character that will make people laugh for 2 weeks and then no one will care about it anymore !

What ? This character is super popular and people are upset because he is an assist ? HELL NO PUT A PLANT THAT WAS HIS LACKEY IN MP3 LMAOOOO ! But we don't hate Waluigi :mybodyisreggie:
 
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