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A New Player Approaches. Advice?

GKInfinity

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
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Modesto CA
How does sheik punish a missed rest? And would it be beneficial to switch to sheik to punish it?

@Umbreon: Wait, no one's ever SDIed your fsmash? It happens to me probably 5% of the time. I think if you space it really well so that only the farthest part of the hitbox connects that it's pretty hard to do. I'm not sure-- is it easier/harder to do with a certain version of the game?
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
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Location
West Chester, PA
How does sheik punish a missed rest? And would it be beneficial to switch to sheik to punish it?
i think it depends on what % the jiggs is at, but if they are at sheiks usmash killing range, then yes i think it would be very beneficial, unless you wanna say you never went sheik in the match ;)
 

Devil Ray

Smash Lord
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Location
Seoul, South Korea
couple of matchup questions: what do you guys think of the marth and ice climbers matchups?

despite what most smashers say about those two, i think zelda does pretty well against both
 
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Marth:Zelda = 80:20

Marth out spaces and out speeds Zelda, but at least tipper distance = toe distance. Getting toe trades is very possible and Marth dies from toes

If Marth grabs you, the worst he can do to you is uthrow. You will not touch the ground without losing a stock. But if you grab Marth, uthrow. Marth is also bad in the air


IceClimbers:Zelda = ??:??

My only experience vs Ice Climbers is vs ChuDat so it's difficult for me to make an accurate interpretation. But I don't think it's so bad. Fighting Nana + Popo feels easier than fighting Popo because there's more targets. A toe is bound to hit at least 1 of them. Ice Climbers get separated by toes so easily
 

GKInfinity

Smash Champion
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ICs vs zelda isn't that bad. Close to 50-50 i think

-I've never paid any real attention to frame data but as I recall when ICs shield nanas shield pops up a few frames later. If you're good at quick reaction kicks you can commonly hit nana with a kick even if popo shields the kick in time.

-I use lots of kicks for this matchup (surprisingly more than normal). Fsmashes are really good too.

-Same as any character vs ICs, you wanna separate the two and kill nana if possible (or act like you're gonna kill nana to lure popo in, then punish him instead)

-Edgeguarding ICs is generally pretty easy

-Don't get grabbed. Good ICs will use handoffs/wobble you/whatever to kill you quickly
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
zelda should beat ICs, but not by much. they really can't deal with fsmash in any way.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
marth is not as bad as 20:80. camp him _really hard_.
marth should be 80/20 against zelda. Thankfully, modern marth players are generally terrible. marth can DD camp zelda just as hard as falcon or fox can, making the match-up an autowin. they choose not to, but they could.
 

GOTM

Smash Champion
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Messages
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West Chester, PA
Hey guys,

What are your stage preferences as Zelda in singles? I'll lay out some of the things I think about certain stages, but I'd like to know if my thoughts are in line with some of yours. Not sure how I really want to approach the strike/ban system yet.

Yoshi's Story - I like this stage a lot with Zelda. Yeah the stage is small so using her long recovery is somewhat buffeted, however I feel most of the time you're that far off the stage anyway, you're not getting back as her lag after the fact is so long. This stage lets her sink low and use her recovery to put her on the first platform, which is very useful when your opponent covers the ledge. Also, kicks kill very early here, and the platforms are at a good height for uthrow->kick.

Dreamland - Stage seems too....spaced out for me? Her kicks don't kill early, her recovery can be used effectively but, like I said earlier, most people that get you that far off the stage anyway will kill you as soon as you get back. Platforms here are too far apart to platform chase effectively for me at least. I don't like this stage.

Final Destination - Flat, yes, but also makes edge guarding people very easy since they have no where else to go. I think this is a 50/50 stage for Zelda. It's big so you can still space yourself somewhat well, you just don't get the platform help that Zelda needs sometimes.

Pokemon Stadium - Since Zelda's primary kill move is her kick, which is horizontal, stage changes suck here, because they can just tech it every time, but the basic layout is pretty good. Can recover diagonally onto platforms and use them pretty well in the match as well. Ceiling is kind of low but most characters have to deal with that against the likes of fox anyway.

Fountain of Dreams - Freaking love it. As the platforms move Zelda's kick can sneak in as they mess up their shield direction OR as they miss techs because of the movement. Decent amount of movement ability for Zelda as well. I think similar to Yoshi's, anytime the stage is "tight" platform wise, is good for her. Small in general so her kicks kill, and decent recovery b/c of the platform layout.

Kongo Jungle - You can up-B through the middle of the stage from the right and left sides, which is cool. Platforms kind of suck for her here as her vertical speed isn't good at all, but spacies hate this stage because of the ledge so it's easy to edge guard them. 50/50 on this one as well.

Battlefield - AWESOME to edge guard spacies here, and really any character for that matter. Good platform layout I think. I think this is her best stage. It's between this and Yoshi's for me.

My Rankings

1. Battlefield
2. Yoshi's Story
3. Fountain of Dreams
4. Dreamland
5. Pokemon Stadium
6. Kongo Jungle
7. Final Destination

Do you guys agree?
 

GKInfinity

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Yeah, that's pretty much how I'd rank the stages as well.

It'd be nice to see a list of zelda's best/worst stages for each matchup though. Just a suggested counterpick and suggested ban list for stages I guess. For instance, although Yoshi's is my favorite stage to use as zelda I avoid it against marths and ganons.
 

Dark Hart

Rejected by Azua
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
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Location
Death Row, North Carolina
I hate battlefield with a passion

I don't care how good of a stage it is for any character

I

fucking

hate

battlefield

and I actually think FoD is her best stage overall...
 
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I like Yoshi's Story. Even though your recovery is far, it's not safe. You'll more likely die. No so needed here. And Zelda's edge guarding sucks. Closer walls prevents characters with good recoveries from living longer
 

GKInfinity

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I actually don't really like FoD with zelda (but like it fine with other characters). Idk why. I agree it's a good zelda stage though (at least, it meets the requirements for one)
 

ShroudedOne

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Premium
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I like Yoshi's, cause of platforms (wavelands), and I don't have to try so hard to recover.
Battlefield I like just...just cause, I guess. The ledges are stupid, but I don't really depend on those too much.
PS is alright.
I hate FoD in general, but I think Zelda does well there.
I dislike DL64 for her because fast characters can outrun her (I guess on KJ64 they can do this too).
Brinstar is **** for her (in my opinion) but I don't use it much.
 

Devil Ray

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yoshi's is super good. the low ceiling doesn't really matter cuz zelda dies off the top pretty early anyway.

i'm lukewarm about battlefield with zelda, but i love it as sheik.

i think final D might be zelda's worst stage, but it might just be me. FD doesn't work for me with a lot of other chars
 

ShroudedOne

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I knew I'd forgotten one. I don't actually play on FD that much, but when I do, I don't like it that much.
 

Devil Ray

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i personally think FD is terrible for zelda, regardless of the matchup.

also fountain, DL64, and pokemon are good/ok for zelda but too bad those stages are pretty solid for several of the top/high tier chars anyway. considering they're supposedly neutral, it'll be about matchups matchups matchups
 

ShroudedOne

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I can see Marth, cause I've played Marth on that stage. I can visualize Ganon too, I guess, but not Peach.
 

GKInfinity

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Yeah i personally just think marth benefits more from platforms than zelda does so I kinda like FD.

As far as ganon goes, I play bizzarro flame all the time and since he perfect wavelands almost everything it's much more beneficial to pick a stage without platforms. He's not a typical ganon so normally the matchup might not play out like that, but platforms make him a lot more mobile so fd seems like a good choice to me.

For zelda vs peach, zelda get those nice kicks when peach ends up on a low level platform. Peach can dsmash on a platform but other than that i don't think she really gets any advantages from them. I have no idea why i thought fd would be a good stage against peach, but after rethinking it for 5 seconds i've realized that it's pretty bad lol.
 

ShroudedOne

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Ganons certainly love their platforms. As far as Peach/Zelda, it seems like turnips (which are a big problem for Zelda) would rule her more on FD than, say, YS or BF, cause of platforms. She could use those to not get bogged down by turnips as much, and while platforms don't really give Peach a HUGE advantage (she can nair you from underneath, and downsmash I guess, while she's on one), I feel like platforms help Zelda out a lot. We've got recovery options, and cute waveland tricks that help for sneaking kicks on people below you. I also feel like Zelda is good at aggravating people above her on a platform (except for probably Peach...).
 

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
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My Rankings

1. Battlefield
2. Yoshi's Story
3. Fountain of Dreams
4. Dreamland
5. Pokemon Stadium
6. Kongo Jungle
7. Final Destination

Do you guys agree?
TBH this looks pretty good. Dreamland and Kongo being super matchup dependant.

I do think though that FD is a decent stage to fight Ganondorf on.
 

TheLake

Smash Master
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Butler PA
FD freakin sucks you guys know whats up

Put rainbow cruise first and your list is pretty much spot on GOTM

WHERE THOSE VIDS?!
 
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I'm working on getting Peach footage for something epic (kind of). After its release I might play more Zelda and record her
 

GOTM

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FD freakin sucks you guys know whats up

Put rainbow cruise first and your list is pretty much spot on GOTM

WHERE THOSE VIDS?!
I set my computer to upload like 20 something videos, came back the next morning, it was frozen. Checked my YouTube account, and 4 made it online, haha. Only one of them was a Zelda video though. I posted it in the video thread, but heres the link anyway. I have like 15 more vids recorded with her though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idfpsZ43fxw
 

GKInfinity

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Man, I'm lucky to get one video to upload to my channel without it freezing. It usually takes me weeks to get videos from one tournament up as a result. So annoying... :/

Post the link to your channel again once the others are up though, i'll definitely watch em.
 

ShroudedOne

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Is it a problem with Youtube? Cause you can get third party uploaders for that. I have a really good one that gets my vids up in about 15-20 minutes per vid. Sure, that's kinda slow, but it never freezes.
 

Devil Ray

Smash Lord
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I think some newer zelda players need to work on lcancelling their double bair/fairs after they land so they can either DD or wavedash right out of it. i see tooo many zeldas shielding or spotdodging after the money kicks.
 
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