• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

A Letter to the Smash Community

Proverbs

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,698
Location
Seattle, WA
Link to original post: [drupal=3256]A Letter to the Smash Community[/drupal]



After a good deal of thought, I've decided to quit Melee. I've decided to pick up competitive yo-yoing instead, as a replacement. Aside from yo-yoing simply just being more fun, more interactive, an activity you can still talk to people during, something fun you can do anywhere, and something you can do to impress people that they'll actually be interested in, there are other reasons why I'm choosing yo-yoing instead. A lot of it has to do with the community they've developed, and the lack of community here. This doesn't mean I'll never play again, just means I'm no longer playing 'competitively'. However, I do want to spend this time helping you understand what's pushed me away from the smash community.

1. Arrogance and Pride--I can't tell you how many times I find people getting so prideful and arrogant over smash. Either people think they're above others for being better, boast when they win, or say generally discouraging remarks. I've seen smash go from being a friendly activity to some pretty serious anger--I'm not innocent of this, either. This generally creates a feeling of hostility. I'm never going to feel relaxed while playing smash if people are always going to 'play to win' and tell you you're only losing because you're just trying to have fun (or use a character who isn't gay).

2. Lack of Personability--This might seem like an odd thing to list as what's pushed me away from the smash community, but I just generally feel like no one's very personable. I don't feel like I'm 'friends' with many of the people I play smash with. We're usually just focused on the screen, and if we're ever hanging out, it's always smash. I couldn't tell you much about most of the people I play smash with, honestly. Sure, we've had some good conversations, but if I wasn't religious and didn't really try to spark those conversations, they wouldn't come up themselves. From what I've seen there's a general lack of realness in the relationships built in this community. The only thing I really see thriving here is the desire to win, which while that can be healthy, often isn't. Likewise, people often just don't want to hang out with bad players. One of my friends came to a Melee tournament with me, and he is pretty good. But he played against someone from his own town who was a ton better than him and lost to him in the tournament. Impressed, my friend said they should hang out sometime since they live so close. The guy responded that he wasn't really looking to get back into smash, since he had been gone for a long time. That was a blatant lie, since I've seen him at tournaments since and have heard of him getting back into smash. He simply saw my friend as 'beneath' him. One person I really appreciate is ArcNatural, because I've never felt that coming from him. Sure he yelled at me sometimes when I kept doing stupid stuff over and over, but I never felt like he didn't want me at his house.

3. Lack of Morals--Honestly, I've seen some pretty low moral standards among you guys. Someone dry humped one of Mattdotzeb's sister's friends while staying as a guest at his house. I've heard of plenty of players getting completely wasted before tournaments, or doing drugs leading up to them. When I think of young players like Irish Mafia, I wonder what sort of example they think they're setting. Many good players are simply deadbeats with no real direction in life. I don't want to see Mafia thinking that's his calling in life, he's a much smarter kid than that. That's why I've always felt good about hanging out with him whenever he asked, even if I didn't have a ton of time. I wanted someone to be a better example in his life than the people I saw around him. The fact that many of you are rather unsavory characters that I wouldn't want my child to spend time with (if I had one), is incredibly unsettling for the younger players, and frankly pushes me away from you.

I've been yo-yoing for about a week and a half, and I've already found the exact opposite. Everyone is incredibly nice and generous. As I'm starting out, I've been given tons of free supplies from everyone I've spent time with. I don't think I've ever hung out with a yo-yoer and not gotten something for free when I've been with them--they're always looking to give. Even when at a yo-yoers apartment in Brookline, I realized I hadn't eaten yet and he offers whatever he had--which happened to be a grapefruit, but even still. Since being with them I've felt like I was honestly appreciated as a person, and that I was actually friends with them, even though they're leagues better than me.

And so, I make this appeal: Melee or Brawl, if you're looking to pull more people in, you simply need to pull your act together. The Smash community can often be one of the least enjoyable communities to be around.

Plus, yo-yoing's awesome:
http://www.vimeo.com/8872077
http://www.vimeo.com/4652406

^That's the guy who gave me the grapefruit, as well as a ton of supplies, lessons, and an interview for a project that I was working on.
 

Today

ლ(இДஇლ)
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
4,960
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio ; Land of Happiness and Kindness
NNID
Daylightful
I hope your days of Yoyoing is good!
I don't know how difference the Melee community is from the Brawl community.
But as for the first two parts. Not that many Brawl players are exactly that cocky. Everyone enjoys helping each other out. Sure you may have some guys that are a little over their head but the majority of the good players are really kind about things. Everyone is pretty close, and we're all really good friends.
As for number three.. Yeah, players are humans too. Of course I wouldn't smoke or drink, but hey... that's fun to some people! So if that's what they want to do then let them. It doesn't really change them as a person. Again, don't know about the Melee scene vs. the Brawl scene but a lot of the Brawl players that do drink/smoke are all around the 20's. None of them at that age is going to start thinking about having children and such. Most of them already have a career or go to school.
Point being, not all Smashers are like that. Sorry you couldn't fit into the community but surely there are some people that you'll like. Whether it's from Melee, 64, or Brawl.
But I hope your life of Yoyoing is good! Glad you found some people to stick with and that's the important part!
 

dudutsai

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
1,714
Location
Lincoln MA
Too bad to hear you are quitting smash. I wish the best for you, but at the same time I read a lot of your comments as an attack on the smash community.

I really don't have any problem with the smashers in MA. I think they are all great people, both personally and in life, so I wonder why you get a bad impression from us. I do remember one of the few times I played you, you didn't say a word to me, and even ignored me when I offered a handshake after friendlies. I think if you opened yourself up a bit, you would be able to see everyone in a new, better light.
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
37,167
Location
Beastector HQ
3DS FC
3540-0079-4988
Behold, I send you forth as sheep amidst the wolves: be you therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
 

mzink*

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
984
Location
MI
The Yo-yo thing looks cool, have fun with it. That's funny that the guy offered you a grapefruit lolz.

True that pride and arrogance sometimes can go a bit overboard, but a lot of times its just a part of a competitive sport. Don't ever take it personally, just use it as motivation to become better. People put hard work into learning and perfecting something, sometimes its natural for them to be prideful for what they have achieved, and like I said, true it can be pushed too far, but self control comes with maturity in most cases. If you come across that kind of stuff, the only thing you can really do is try to set your own example. Be helpful rather than scornful. People pick up on each others behavior and can be influenced by it.

As for the drinking and drugs and stuff, true some people enjoy drinking a bit or maybe smoking before a match, but I've never really seen it go too far. If you do then yea the smart thing to do would be stay out of a situation like that. I have never seen anybody do any kind of hard drug before a match though. I've been to a few friendly tournaments where people do get pretty drunk, its pretty funny. They can get a bit loud and can leave a mess but other than that they don't really cause much of a disturbance, and anybody that does gets kicked out by the other players.

As for the lack of personability, maybe that's just because its such a large community, I don't know. You can't really be personable with every smasher you meet, well I don't really make the effort to. I have my group of friends and I usually just stick with them. If somebody else wants to be friendly with us, sure that's cool. But not all smashers are alike, lots of different kinds of people play smash. I don't automatically like every person I meet, doesn't matter whether they smash or not. With so many different personalities, they aren't all gona be buddy buddy all the time.

But anyway, its not everybody's cup of tea I know, just sayin don't spend the energy on taking it personally or being hurt by it or anything. But have lots of fun with that yo yo thing, hope you make lots of cool friends :)
 

GunmasterLombardi

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
2,493
Location
My ego...It's OVER 9000!
Good man. I hope to still see you around though...

Yo-Yoing is a great hobby. There are some cool tricks like "Around the World" and "Walking the Dog" just to name a few. It's one those things that can entertain a wider variety of people than video games, which is why I've decided to get back into art.

If you get REALLY good you could put on a show and make some cash in Detroit , just don't get shot.

-GunmasterL :samus2:
 

SwastikaPyle

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
811
1. You will not find any other sport to be any better than Smash Bros. I assure you they all have their share of arrogance and pride (which isn't always a bad thing, I think a lot of the fun in this game comes from the competitive aspect, region vs region, district vs district, etc.)

2. What did you want that guy to do? You put him on the spot by asking him to do things he doesn't want to do, he could either flat out say to your face, "No I don't want to play with you," or he could come up with something nicer and make an excuse (which he did). It probably took that guy months and months to practice to the point that he did, and you're basically asking him to go from level 10 back to level 2 for your friend's enjoyment. Think of it from his point of view.

3. This is just something you will grow to be less intolerant of other time. So you don't actually hate the game, you just don't like the people. That's a perfectly acceptable reason to leave the community if you don't like it. But I seriously thought yo-yo was just some short-form for a competitive game that I hadn't heard about, not, like, actual competitive yo-yoing. LOL. Awesome.
 

Proverbs

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,698
Location
Seattle, WA
Too bad to hear you are quitting smash. I wish the best for you, but at the same time I read a lot of your comments as an attack on the smash community.

I really don't have any problem with the smashers in MA. I think they are all great people, both personally and in life, so I wonder why you get a bad impression from us. I do remember one of the few times I played you, you didn't say a word to me, and even ignored me when I offered a handshake after friendlies. I think if you opened yourself up a bit, you would be able to see everyone in a new, better light.
Not sure you're thinking of the right person. We played once or twice, and I definitely spoke up at least a little. First time was in teams with me and Mafia and you and your friend. I was acting a little cocky, but it was supposed to be a joke. In retrospect, I can see you misconstruing that. The second time we played for maybe ten minutes, and we talked a little bit. As far as ignoring the handshake, I just didn't see it. I actually thought you were a pretty cool guy, and definitely a good Jiggz player. Sorry to hear I gave you a bad impression. Maybe I'll see you around sometime.

1. You will not find any other sport to be any better than Smash Bros. I assure you they all have their share of arrogance and pride (which isn't always a bad thing, I think a lot of the fun in this game comes from the competitive aspect, region vs region, district vs district, etc.)
Actually, according to one of the top yo-yoers, arrogance is really rare to find. Sure they have their people, but it's way less pronounced. I think it's because in yo-yoing people don't really go head to head. So maybe that's just the nature of the beast.

2. What did you want that guy to do? You put him on the spot by asking him to do things he doesn't want to do, he could either flat out say to your face, "No I don't want to play with you," or he could come up with something nicer and make an excuse (which he did). It probably took that guy months and months to practice to the point that he did, and you're basically asking him to go from level 10 back to level 2 for your friend's enjoyment. Think of it from his point of view.
I do think of it from his point of view. I've played with people who are way worse than me all the time. If anyone wanted to learn to play, I'd totally be willing to play with them whenever, and in the past have done so. My friend wasn't so bad that it'd be unbearable. He's got the basics down pretty solid, he just needs to work on strategy a bit more. If the guy doesn't want to help someone learn, that's called not being nice or giving--the exact opposite I've found in yo-yoing.

3. This is just something you will grow to be less intolerant of other time. So you don't actually hate the game, you just don't like the people. That's a perfectly acceptable reason to leave the community if you don't like it. But I seriously thought yo-yo was just some short-form for a competitive game that I hadn't heard about, not, like, actual competitive yo-yoing. LOL. Awesome.
I like the people, I don't like the way they act. I don't like the bad example they set for young players, I don't like their pride that just puts people down, I don't like the way they talk about people behind their backs, and I don't like their general lack of morals. The stories I've heard of what's gone on with drinking especially before big tournaments is disgusting. There's only so far 'personal choice' goes.

I don't mind Smash or the people in the community, but I think as a whole it's done a lot to turn many away from learning to play Smash. That's why I made this post. It's to make people aware.

And yeah, yo-yoing is really cool :p If you didn't check out the videos--please do. They're mind-blowing. That guy's only been yo-yoing for three years and he's sponsored by a small company. Also, I just love how I can entertain others with yo-yoing. That's half the fun, in my opinion.
 

MattDotZeb

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
6,122
Location
Quincy, MA
I just saw this but

3. Lack of Morals--Honestly, I've seen some pretty low moral standards among you guys. Someone dry humped one of Mattdotzeb's sister's friends while staying as a guest at his house.
This person is no longer allowed in my house, but I wont name names.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
I know what you mean by they won't play with worse players, I once played with a sheik main and got just plain **** over and over and didn't really give up and he didn't really want to play me anymore or give me advice. never really played with me again.

I think you should add something about how they tend to not respect your choices I may not have read what others have posted yeah but chances are they(at least 2 people) are telling you you are wrong and you shouldn't quit or you should play as ______. I had someone on youtube that stalked me and bashed every single thing I did when I discovered new ice climber chain throws or ideas for pichu he kept bashing me trying to destroy my sprit for like 2 or 3 months. LOOk at what they are doing to hungary box he isn't broken or anything it's possible to deal with him.

They simplely are hateing him to death and I want to give him a hug for all what they've done. I myself have nothing against non broken camping. The planking is different that and hyrule gayness.

People have teached other players like wobbles like S*** and I've even been told I suck and other rude things when playing in front or noobs I ***** and cheered and declared my brother the best when he can't even SHFFL.


Hey proverbs as long as you have a good reason I have nothing against you quiting, I'll miss you but it's not my choice. But you can be a good explane of how to be. spread love and help people who are being treated unfairly. Really I never try to hurt anyone any shape or form I love helping people even if it's a simple thing like helping them with SHFFLing. I think we need more love.

Please reply thanks in advance.
 
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
8,100
Location
Baklavaaaaa
1. Arrogance and Pride--I can't tell you how many times I find people getting so prideful and arrogant over smash. Either people think they're above others for being better, boast when they win, or say generally discouraging remarks. I've seen smash go from being a friendly activity to some pretty serious anger--I'm not innocent of this, either. This generally creates a feeling of hostility. I'm never going to feel relaxed while playing smash if people are always going to 'play to win' and tell you you're only losing because you're just trying to have fun (or use a character who isn't gay).
I can't believe how undeniably true this is.

2. Lack of Personability--This might seem like an odd thing to list as what's pushed me away from the smash community, but I just generally feel like no one's very personable. I don't feel like I'm 'friends' with many of the people I play smash with. We're usually just focused on the screen, and if we're ever hanging out, it's always smash. I couldn't tell you much about most of the people I play smash with, honestly. Sure, we've had some good conversations, but if I wasn't religious and didn't really try to spark those conversations, they wouldn't come up themselves. From what I've seen there's a general lack of realness in the relationships built in this community. The only thing I really see thriving here is the desire to win, which while that can be healthy, often isn't. Likewise, people often just don't want to hang out with bad players. One of my friends came to a Melee tournament with me, and he is pretty good. But he played against someone from his own town who was a ton better than him and lost to him in the tournament. Impressed, my friend said they should hang out sometime since they live so close. The guy responded that he wasn't really looking to get back into smash, since he had been gone for a long time. That was a blatant lie, since I've seen him at tournaments since and have heard of him getting back into smash. He simply saw my friend as 'beneath' him. One person I really appreciate is ArcNatural, because I've never felt that coming from him. Sure he yelled at me sometimes when I kept doing stupid stuff over and over, but I never felt like he didn't want me at his house.
Yesssssssssss. This this this.

3. Lack of Morals--Honestly, I've seen some pretty low moral standards among you guys. Someone dry humped one of Mattdotzeb's sister's friends while staying as a guest at his house.
PFFFFFFFHAHAHAHAHA WHAT A LOSER.

I've heard of plenty of players getting completely wasted before tournaments, or doing drugs leading up to them. When I think of young players like Irish Mafia, I wonder what sort of example they think they're setting. Many good players are simply deadbeats with no real direction in life. I don't want to see Mafia thinking that's his calling in life, he's a much smarter kid than that. That's why I've always felt good about hanging out with him whenever he asked, even if I didn't have a ton of time. I wanted someone to be a better example in his life than the people I saw around him. The fact that many of you are rather unsavory characters that I wouldn't want my child to spend time with (if I had one), is incredibly unsettling for the younger players, and frankly pushes me away from you.
Some friendly Nintendo community right thar!

The Smash community can often be one of the least enjoyable communities to be around.
More undeniable facts.
 

Teran

Through Fire, Justice is Served
Super Moderator
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 23, 2008
Messages
37,167
Location
Beastector HQ
3DS FC
3540-0079-4988
Omnicron, go be a clown in the Disco Room where it belongs.

I'm warning you don't mess around here.
 

MidnightAsaph

Smash Lord
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
1,191
Location
Bloomington, MN
I will fight your arguments best as I can, and they will crumble to the ground. ^^ Here it goes.


1. Arrogance and Pride--I can't tell you how many times I find people getting so prideful and arrogant over smash. Either people think they're above others for being better, boast when they win, or say generally discouraging remarks. I've seen smash go from being a friendly activity to some pretty serious anger--I'm not innocent of this, either. This generally creates a feeling of hostility. I'm never going to feel relaxed while playing smash if people are always going to 'play to win' and tell you you're only losing because you're just trying to have fun (or use a character who isn't gay).
Arrogance? That's a human thing, not a smash thing. Competitive environments may breed this, but I, for one, do not get this way. I have fun playing to win, actually. Then again, I main Wolf. I also love challenges, so I have fun either way.

Point is, you're biased based on your personal experiences. If you saw the rest of the community, you would no doubt find the most ****ing awesome people in existence.

2. Lack of Personability--This might seem like an odd thing to list as what's pushed me away from the smash community, but I just generally feel like no one's very personable. I don't feel like I'm 'friends' with many of the people I play smash with. We're usually just focused on the screen, and if we're ever hanging out, it's always smash. I couldn't tell you much about most of the people I play smash with, honestly. Sure, we've had some good conversations, but if I wasn't religious and didn't really try to spark those conversations, they wouldn't come up themselves. From what I've seen there's a general lack of realness in the relationships built in this community. The only thing I really see thriving here is the desire to win, which while that can be healthy, often isn't. Likewise, people often just don't want to hang out with bad players. One of my friends came to a Melee tournament with me, and he is pretty good. But he played against someone from his own town who was a ton better than him and lost to him in the tournament. Impressed, my friend said they should hang out sometime since they live so close. The guy responded that he wasn't really looking to get back into smash, since he had been gone for a long time. That was a blatant lie, since I've seen him at tournaments since and have heard of him getting back into smash. He simply saw my friend as 'beneath' him. One person I really appreciate is ArcNatural, because I've never felt that coming from him. Sure he yelled at me sometimes when I kept doing stupid stuff over and over, but I never felt like he didn't want me at his house.
It's a competitive environment where your goals are to go to tourneys and wins. Why are you looking for good relationships?

Honestly. Relationships built on one thing are bound to be shallow.

My group of smash friends and I are basically built on smash. We do not have close relationships. At all. Although I think everyone in my group is pretty **** awesome. A couple of them are close though (but that's because we go to the same college).

Case in point. There aren't supposed to be any close relationships, and that's not smash's or the smash community's fault. That's how it is.

3. Lack of Morals--Honestly, I've seen some pretty low moral standards among you guys. Someone dry humped one of Mattdotzeb's sister's friends while staying as a guest at his house. I've heard of plenty of players getting completely wasted before tournaments, or doing drugs leading up to them. When I think of young players like Irish Mafia, I wonder what sort of example they think they're setting. Many good players are simply deadbeats with no real direction in life. I don't want to see Mafia thinking that's his calling in life, he's a much smarter kid than that. That's why I've always felt good about hanging out with him whenever he asked, even if I didn't have a ton of time. I wanted someone to be a better example in his life than the people I saw around him. The fact that many of you are rather unsavory characters that I wouldn't want my child to spend time with (if I had one), is incredibly unsettling for the younger players, and frankly pushes me away from you.
Same argument I already used. You're making a generalization based on your personal experience. Furthermore, you're not criticizing the smash community, you're criticizing humans.



So in conclusion, it's not the smash community you hate, it's humans. Go live in a box.

PS: I'm not taking this post seriously at all, but just in case, I am. You lost my seriousness when you included yoyos. Maybe if you had used another gaming community, or perhaps not a community at all, I would have taken this seriously. Then again, I'm not sure if your intent was to have this be taken seriously.

Anyway, I'm not sure so here's a picture of a waffle:
 

highfive

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
1,324
Location
Buhl, Idaho
It's official. Yo-yo > smash. I knew it. From the start.

It's fine and dandy to switch to different things. And really, how many people can say they've done TWO competitive things?
 

john!

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 19, 2006
Messages
8,063
Location
The Garden of Earthly Delights
I demand a yo-yo combo video in the near future.

Really though, you're around a bunch of college kids, what did you expect? Plus, yo-yoing doesn't sound nearly as competitive as Smash Bros. so naturally there's more friendliness.
 

j3ly

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Messages
2,001
Location
London
the comunity is filled with lots of people from different backgrounds. many different personality types, and no region is going to be the same

but with a big community in every region, its not too hard to find people who you share stuff in common. my smash crew and one of my friends groups have started to inter mingle, which is great. however only one person in the entire community has leveld to the status of friend whereby we can jam at mine and not play smash, hit the pub etc. Ofc we play smash more than anything else, but when smash is boring its not time to go home all of a sudden.

I think having a good friend is paramount to improving. Me and lewis walk whereever, and discuss smash in depth. developing new things, trying to figure how to get around strategies. 2 brains are better than 1, and when 1+1 brains join together, they create a power of more than 2. If that makes sense.

(its like when 2 people tidy a room, it gets tidied more than 2x as quick than 1 person doing it for some reason.)
 

Jim Morrison

Smash Authority
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,287
Location
The Netherlands
I think having a good friend is paramount to improving. Me and lewis walk whereever, and discuss smash in depth. developing new things, trying to figure how to get around strategies. 2 brains are better than 1, and when 1+1 brains join together, they create a power of more than 2. If that makes sense.
Yea, seems as if when two people are together, it doesn't only add up, it somehow multiplies! 1*1 brains join together and ma-

Oh :urg:
 

Dekar173

Justice Man
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Messages
3,126
Location
Albuquerque, NM
I'm glad you're picking up a replacement hobby :)

Also, most of those issues are Melee-exclusive, lol. Sure you'll get an ******* or three in the Brawl community who acts like this, and doesn't want to build relationships with other players but rather just use them for their own personal skill gain, but those are very rare, in my experience.

They're kind of the exact reasons why I refuse to pick up Melee, cause the community blows dicksssss lol.

I mean, the top melee player is an alcoholic (of course this means nothing of the community, but they walk around sucking this guy's **** instead of, you know, trying to help him overcome his obvious addictions).

Enjoy yoyoing, it's fun as hell! :)
 

Mr.Freeman

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
831
Oh dear. I didn't realize necromancy was still popular.
I'm just saying Proverbs probably wouldn't respond, since he's not part of the community anymore.

So you would be arguing with...nobody, I guess.
 

MidnightAsaph

Smash Lord
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
1,191
Location
Bloomington, MN
I'm just saying Proverbs probably wouldn't respond, since he's not part of the community anymore.

So you would be arguing with...nobody, I guess.
Oh, I know. I realized it. I'm just expressing my disbelief that necromancy is still...the "thing" people do nowadays.


Well, I guess now, the most logical thing to follow this thread would be the debate between Chrstianity and Atheism.

*locked*
 

Mr.Freeman

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
831
I never got to play Melee long enough to quit it =-( lost the game. I would like to play Dr. Mario and MewTwo again.
Dude.

This guy left the site quite some time ago.

This is the 2nd time you necro his thread.
 
Top Bottom