A King's Quest For Respect: The Bowser Matchup Thread

[BigLord]

^I agree. Falcon's Neutral air works wonders on Bowser. Oh, don't forget about jab-jab-jab-jabjabjabjabjabjab too. It's kinda hard for him to escape.

Of course, the same is also true for Bowser's shield grab... if you don't mix up your approaches, you're basically dead.

 

[GreenFox]

There is no way bowser is at a disadvantage from what I can see this matchup is fairly even because both characters have some pretty bad options against each other

 

[BigLord]

Nobody's saying he's at a disadvantage. His ground game beats ours, fair and square. That's why most people give him 55-45 or close to that.

 

[Darky-Sama]

No, Bowser's potential in this match-up isn't anywhere near being at a disadvantage.

45:55 is probably the maximum advantage he has over Falcon though. Bowser is extremely limited against a Captain who knows the match-up.

 

[Liquid Gen]

lol@this ever happening

 

[B!squick]

Most of Bowser's attacks have a large start-up and cool down time, which doesn't really help too much either.

Then Captain Falcon must have god like lag in this department then. I will say again, Bowser has less start up lag than Captain Falcon on almost ALL of his moves.

As for Falcon's multi jab, even with just QCDI it wont do much damage and I think Bowser can punish with an FSmash if I'm reading the frame data right.

EDIT: Actually I looked at all the different frame data topics for Captain Falcon and I'm not sure which one to believe. :/ Either way, it seems that for most attacks the hit boxes come out at about the same time +/- a few frames here and there.

 

[BigLord]

As for Falcon's multi jab, even with just QCDI it wont do much damage and I think Bowser can punish with an FSmash if I'm reading the frame data right.

Maybe punish with a fair, I agree. But with a Fsmash? What?

And yeah, Darky-Sama was wrong there, specially on your upB and fair and others. Those come out like in frame 5 or something, and upB has invincibility frames.

 

[B!squick]

Maybe punish with a fair, I agree. But with a Fsmash? What?

Yeah, I think the window of opportunity is... 26 frames, or so it says in one of the frame data topics. That's exactly how long it takes FSmash to hit.

 

[Darky-Sama]

It's either one or the other with Bowser. Either his attack start-up is slow, or he has a lot of cool down time. More along the lines of the cool down though, that's what I was getting at specifically.

Also, yes. Falcon is HORRIBLE when it comes to his attack start-up time. Which is why most Falcons dread using his ground game. Our aerials come out quick and auto cancel and can be followed up with our ground game, which is the main use for our ground game in general. Like Bowser, we have range on most of our grounded attacks, but they just suck. Really, really badly.

 

[B!squick]

What's funny is that while ground attacks are iffy on who will hit sooner and kinda favor CF, ALL of Bowser's aerials land before Falcon's. So you're screwed coming AND going. XD But Falcon has alot of mobility and most likely has less cool down on everything. It's definitely an up hill battle for Falcon though.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Mhm. Bowser definantly has more of an advantage in this match-up, but I wouldn't consider it an extremely large margin (wtf I had to look at that for a minute to make sure I didn't spell it like that term that means butter). If a Bowser knows how to play defensively, Falcon's gonna have a really hard time getting an edge in this match-up.

45:55, possibly 40:60.

It's a pretty steady MU though.

 

[Cassius.]

I REALLY need to play Acedude more in order to get some playtime in this MU.

Although, realistically, the chances of Bowser vs Captain Falcon happening at a tournament are quite small, wouldn't you say? :/

 

[Player-3]

yes

so 60:5 Fawlser

 

[Cassius.]

What in God's name is a Fawlser

 

[Flayl]

lol@this ever happening

>_>

Sup BigLord.

Anyway this matchup depends on how bored you get of shielding... I kid you not.

 

[Player-3]

Limit when a man and a turtle have a child you xan't combine their names
The genes get a bit twisted so i twisted the name
Fal from falcon
Wser from boozer
Falwser
Twist like a twistie tie and you get...
Fawlser!
See, it's genetics

 

[Darky-Sama]

>_>

Sup BigLord.

Anyway this matchup depends on how bored you get of shielding... I kid you not.

^
This.

If Bowser doesn't shield though, then Falcon's going to serve some steaming hot justice across the Koopa King's face. Which is basically why this match-up relies on patience. :/

 

[BigLord]

Although, realistically, the chances of Bowser vs Captain Falcon happening at a tournament are quite small, wouldn't you say? :/

Hmmmm... depends on the tournament.

And Flayl's completely right. I think I've hit him with Up Smash'es a number of times, because he stopped shielding too early. So if you want to win... SHIELD!

Oh, but not too much. Or you'll get falcon punched in the face, after getting your shield broken.

 

[Flayl]

That's not what I meant BigLord. I meant going on the offensive even though I'm at a lower % instead of turtling in my shield.

 

[B!squick]

So, 55/45 Bowser to win agreeable? Or is anyone really strongly in favor of 50/50 or 60/40?

 

[MrEh]

You can put the matchup at 76/95 and it wouldn't make much of a difference. lol

 

[Darky-Sama]

55:45 in Bowser's favor.

I doubt a good Falcon would make the match-up any easier than that.

 

[B!squick]

Probably not. But when alcohol is involved, I, like, never lose to Captain Falcon. Ever.

 

[Darky-Sama]

The Falcon mains would probably say the same when nipple clamps are involved though.

 

[B!squick]

... Er, I would have greatly preferred a joke about Captain Falcon's taste in tacky scarfs, but to each their own I guess.

 

[Flayl]

I'd say it's 60:40 Bowser's favor even in Smashboards standards, but whatever.

 

[B!squick]

Really? And why is that?

 

[Flayl]

You basically shut Captain Falcon down by shielding and Jabbing when he goes into dash-grab you. Jabbing will also stop any other kind of grounded approach, it'll clank with anything. Granted you need to time it well and you need the % advantage to be able to just sit there, so it's not worse than 60:40.

 

[B!squick]

Yeah, it seems like a reverse of just about every other match up we have. Instead of the opponent having projectiles and/or a safe approach we have someone who we can finally be free to do what we want against.

The only time when problems arise is when CF get inside our defenses. Besides catching us in some landing lag or some such, I suspect Falcon will have a hard time killing Bowser as well.

I'll leave this in limbo a bit longer, but I'm leaning heavily toward 60/40 for a match-up most Smashers will probably never see.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Take it from me, this is definitly 50:50, you are ******** if you think shield shuts Falcon down.

 

[Flayl]

Take it from me, this is definitly 50:50, you are ******** if you think shield shuts Falcon down.

Lets listen to the not-bowser player who's rude. Good idea.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Take it from me, this is definitly 50:50, you are ******** if you think shield shuts Falcon down.

Ftilt and shield do, who are you again to call people ********? Exactly.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Ignore what I said before, I forgot MU discussions are theorycraft.

 

[Flayl]

Ignore what I said before, I forgot MU discussions are theorycraft.

It's not even theorycraft. I literally can just stand there when I have the lower % and wait for captain falcon to do something. If you're in the air, I shield. If you're running towards me, I prepare to time my Jab.

Please tell me how this is theorycraft when it's what I've observed from playing against a Captain Falcon player many, many times.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I bait a reaction, but those can't be taken into consideration in the matchup number.

 

[Darky-Sama]

I actually have to agree with Gf2tw somewhat. As good as shielding is against Falcon, it's not going to shut him down. If a Bowser gets too shield happy, chances are the Falcon's going to start abusing his grab game to force Bowser into the air. Regardless of the fact that Falcon's ground game generally blows, it's extremely useful for shield pressuring and spacing, the two things that he actually needs in this match-up.

Sure, a Falcon NORMALLY sticks with his air game, but considering Bowser can shut that approach down for the most part, his next best option is the grab game. Which a good Falcon should be abusing anyway, regardless of the match-up, but eh. People use Falcon to look flashy and combo-video worthy, so they repeat the same stupid **** over and over hoping it'll hit.

A good Falcon won't do that, so I'm leaning more toward 55:45, than 50:50 or 60:40.

Also, I'm probably going to sap most of the information posted about this match-up and throw it into our board's guide, just so we won't have to go over it twice.

 

[Flayl]

I bait a reaction, but those can't be taken into consideration in the matchup number.

You baited a Jab out of me. Now what?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Jab > Grab > U-throw, you are in the air.
How are you going to win the matchup if you underestimate The Jab?

EDIT: Inb4 jab>grab isnt true, on bowser it is, and if it weren't, I'm just going to jab untill it kills you.

 

[Flayl]

Your jab outranges ours now? Well no wonder the matchup is even.

You don't even know what to when you actually bait something do you lol.

 

[Darky-Sama]

You don't even need to jab.
You could just buffer a dash grab or shield out of your dash when approaching Bowser -> shield grab.