A Great Evil Walks the Earth, the Ganondorf in Smash Bros. Ultimate Discussion

[Boartobewild]

G

Effectiveness has nothing to do with it. It's a beloved signature move finally being re-used by its original character. If it launches like any other dash attack then hopefully it can kill at higher percents. Otherwise, who cares? We're still going to use it.

Of course Skyward Sword was not a thing during those games, yet Quillion still brought up Ghirahim despite his lack of relevance. Did you even read the quoted post? I merely used Demise as a counter-argument to the point he brought Ghirahim up for.



And who exactly is the judge for Smash not being a serious fight? You? Last I checked every other character is taking it seriously, including Ridley. Using Smash lore, if Ganondorf didn't take it seriously, he'd get wrecked at every turn. He's not immune to damage here, and he knows it. He has to fight smart and seriously if he is to succeed in the Smash world, lest he let creatures like Jigglypuff beat him.

Also, examine this moment from The Wind Waker here:

Link is completely helpless against Ganondorf in this scenario. The most non-serious threat Ganondorf has faced. Sure, he bats him away with his hand at first. But he still proceeds to draw his sword. What does that tell you? Even with an extreme advantage in battle, Ganondorf drew his blade. Why didn't he punch him to death? Because Ganondorf doesn't punch people to kill them.

In Smash the whole goal is to kill the enemy. Clearly, a serious fight that requires full-strength. It's like telling someone to swat a fly with their hands despite them having a fly swatter. How absurd.



Other than the fact that both of her missiles can't kill at percentages higher than 200, her fsmash hitboxes are terrible, up-smash often fails to work, jab can't connect into itself, no kill throws, average speed, average strength, too slow in the air to have decent air combos, and her utilt is a kill move yet the meteor effect makes it easy to survive.

I don't need Samus to be top-tier, I need Samus to function properly. If a character has something they can use in their kit, it should be worth using. She should be good at what she does. Honestly, Mii Gunner is a better Samus than Samus. Mii Gunner has a bunch of attacks that mirror Samus' almost perfectly, but the Gunner's moves are better. Upsmash actually connects, missiles have incredible turning power, bombs have a terrifying launch rate.

In a vacuum, maybe Samus is good enough. But Smash isn't a vacuum.

GUYS,GUYS calm down, while I am mostly on board/agree way more with the Canon-dorf crowd, I also would be pissed, if the current moveset were to be replaced without being kept or representented in any shape or form.

However can someone just answer/rate me this simple very easy question(solution)? WHY CAN'T WE HAVE BOTH?!
Seriously we have 3 links as of now( that are honestly still not different enough for my liking, but that's another matter entirely), so why would it be so blasphemous to assume that Ganon could have 2 alternative Forms/Versions with completely different movesets like one based on swordfighting be that single or dual wielding and more magic focussed along with his Trident?

I really struggle to see why we have to quarrel over changing a single move ( which honestly wouldn't change his playstyle that much bc unlike godspeed/lightweight( or whatever Palutena's stupid alternative special was called) it won't magically change his frame data and mobility traits, so besides giving him a few more options what's the big idea?!

 

[Quillion]

Gotta admit; I appreciate how Ganondorf's quick moves are actually good tools. And I love the slight animation changes as well.

I still would prefer the old high kick and elbow F-smash, though. The former was one of the best moves in Smash 4 on its own, and the latter was actually made canon.

G


GUYS,GUYS calm down, while I am mostly on board/agree way more with the Canon-dorf crowd, I also would be pissed, if the current moveset were to be replaced without being kept or representented in any shape or form.

However can someone just answer/rate me this simple very easy question(solution)? WHY CAN'T WE HAVE BOTH?!
Seriously we have 3 links as of now( that are honestly still not different enough for my liking, but that's another matter entirely), so why would it be so blasphemous to assume that Ganon could have 2 alternative Forms/Versions with completely different movesets like one based on swordfighting be that single or dual wielding and more magic focussed along with his Trident?

I really struggle to see why we have to quarrel over changing a single move ( which honestly wouldn't change his playstyle that much bc unlike godspeed/lightweight( or whatever Palutena's stupid alternative special was called) it won't magically change his frame data and mobility traits, so besides giving him a few more options what's the big idea?!

It would certainly come off as really silly, but people are accepting the three Links with open arms. Perhaps that's the only way to please everyone.

Or... they can have his sword taunt switch up all his normals.

 

[Boartobewild]

Gotta admit; I appreciate how Ganondorf's quick moves are actually good tools. And I love the slight animation changes as well.

I still would prefer the old high kick and elbow F-smash, though. The former was one of the best moves in Smash 4 on its own, and the latter was actually made canon.



It would certainly come off as really silly, but people are accepting the three Links with open arms. Perhaps that's the only way to please everyone.

Or... they can have his sword taunt switch up all his normals.

Well regarding his old F smash and Upsmash, as many people already stated, having an overhead sword swing (that will prob reach through most battle field like platforms) with faster startup and better approach options can be a pretty good tool in its own right.

Really the only good thing about old Upsmash was it's near non existant endlag, which for my money they could just incorporate into a better usable uptilt that retains the anti air properties and ofc the bait potential, will likely have reduced power but could have the fastest startup but poor range like before to compensate.

I have to admit I'm missing the elbow already, ( especially now when even Falcon got a back hand flex instead, for whatever reason?!) there was just something immensely satisfying about ramming it in an opponents face and the deceptive lean back animation/hurtbox netted me more kills than I could have asked for.

Granted the new F- smash looks absolutely viscious, but since we're already talking about Canon, why not have both? In the final bout of Tp he first uses an elbow to catch Link off guard and immediately follows up with a sword strike, you could just reduce the power of both moves and have them follow up/work just like Link's F-smash.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well regarding his old F smash and Upsmash, as many people already stated, having an overhead sword swing (that will prob reach through most battle field like platforms) with faster startup and better approach options can be a pretty good tool in its own right.

Really the only good thing about old Upsmash was it's near non existant endlag, which for my money they could just incorporate into a better usable uptilt that retains the anti air properties and ofc the bait potential, will likely have reduced power but could have the fastest startup but poor range like before to compensate.

I have to admit I'm missing the elbow already, ( especially now when even Falcon got a back hand flex instead, for whatever reason?!) there was just something immensely satisfying about ramming it in an opponents face and the deceptive lean back animation/hurtbox netted me more kills than I could have asked for.

Granted the new F- smash looks absolutely viscious, but since we're already talking about Canon, why not have both? In the final bout of Tp he first uses an elbow to catch Link off guard and immediately follows up with a sword strike, you could just reduce the power of both moves and have them follow up/work just like Link's F-smash.

Because the Captain's Falcon Punch keeps getting worse in every game, whereas Ganondorf's keeps on getting better. So obviously the former has taken to imitating the latter to regain his luster.

 

[King9999]

I prefer the new f-smash over the old one, but I will miss his godlike u-smash.

 

[Quillion]

Well regarding his old F smash and Upsmash, as many people already stated, having an overhead sword swing (that will prob reach through most battle field like platforms) with faster startup and better approach options can be a pretty good tool in its own right.

Really the only good thing about old Upsmash was it's near non existant endlag, which for my money they could just incorporate into a better usable uptilt that retains the anti air properties and ofc the bait potential, will likely have reduced power but could have the fastest startup but poor range like before to compensate.

I have to admit I'm missing the elbow already, ( especially now when even Falcon got a back hand flex instead, for whatever reason?!) there was just something immensely satisfying about ramming it in an opponents face and the deceptive lean back animation/hurtbox netted me more kills than I could have asked for.

Granted the new F- smash looks absolutely viscious, but since we're already talking about Canon, why not have both? In the final bout of Tp he first uses an elbow to catch Link off guard and immediately follows up with a sword strike, you could just reduce the power of both moves and have them follow up/work just like Link's F-smash.

Even better, the elbow could have had a revamp where it deals both knockback and crumple before the sword followup. That would open up more kill confirm options.

Because the Captain's Falcon Punch keeps getting worse in every game, whereas Ganondorf's keeps on getting better. So obviously the former has taken to imitating the latter to regain his luster.

I'm still in favor of giving both moves uncharged versions so that they can both be useful all-purpose moves and disrespect moves.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I also do prefer his old Up Smash which was amazing, but the overarching sword might be a nice area of effect moveset.

I would also have liked if they gave Warlock Punch a mid range projectile, like how Ganondorf does in Hyrule Warriors where he charges a ball of dark energy and punches it in front of him.

 

[Darches]

He'll still be bad.
I like some of his changes though.

 

[meleebrawler]

You didn't read about the newfound power Dark Dive possesses, didn't you?

He may not light the tier lists on fire but now more than ever, you cannot ever sleep on Ganondorf as he has more opportunities to end you swiftly.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Does anyone know if Wizard foot have more priority against projectiles?
His current Wiz foot gets stopped by any and all projectiles. I hope they buff that move so it goes through all but the max charged shots so that way we have a good punish for projectile spam.

Also does the kick have a hit box in the beginning? In Melee it hit right at the start in Smash4 Ganon jumps and moves forward before the hitbox come out. Does anyone know how it functions now?

Also; am I the only one that likes the Melee Wiz foot animation better than Brawl/Smash4?

 

[Boartobewild]

You didn't read about the newfound power Dark Dive possesses, didn't you?

He may not light the tier lists on fire but now more than ever, you cannot ever sleep on Ganondorf as he has more opportunities to end you swiftly.

If there's one change from smash 4 to ultimate, that will be bigger and more important/significant for Ganon's playstyle than most people realize, it's the changes to the Shield mechanics.

The thing that made Ganon the most frustrating to play in Smash 4, was the rather absurd Focus and strength of shielding. I mean try to remember, you just spotdodged a dash grab and then throw out a F-tilt towards your opponent only to be blocked or even worse, Perfect shielded and then either proceed to get grabbed and get comboed and thus send to gimp hell or receive a Jump cancel Up-smash only to arrive at much the same result as the prior example.

But now( if the changes listed in ssbwiki are to be believed) perfect shielding can now no longer occur as a dumb stroke of luck, since the new parry mechanic is centered around the principle, when's the wisest time to drop shield, so if you happen to put up your shield in front of an currently charging F-smash, which can now charge twice(?) as long as before and thus make shield breaks more likely( hopefully!), you are at far more risk now as opposed to a guranteed advantage state like before. Also the number of frames before shield can be dropped have also been increased, which should make a lot of moves automatically much safer on shield if that turns out to be true.

That along with short hop being easier, dodging being nerfed and dash options greatly expanded upon make this smash a very good candidate for becoming my favourite smash ever!

 

[King9999]

Does anyone know if Wizard foot have more priority against projectiles?
His current Wiz foot gets stopped by any and all projectiles. I hope they buff that move so it goes through all but the max charged shots so that way we have a good punish for projectile spam.

Also does the kick have a hit box in the beginning? In Melee it hit right at the start in Smash4 Ganon jumps and moves forward before the hitbox come out. Does anyone know how it functions now?

Also; am I the only one that likes the Melee Wiz foot animation better than Brawl/Smash4?

They did buff Wiz Foot's damage in Smash 4, and by doing that Ganon was able to blow through some projectiles, like Mega Man's lemons. Is that not the case now?

 

[Boartobewild]

They did buff Wiz Foot's damage in Smash 4, and by doing that Ganon was able to blow through some projectiles, like Mega Man's lemons. Is that not the case now?

I just remember the funniest match up trait regarding wiz kick being, it's property of going over pk fire against Ness, which is also why his custom wizard dropkick was so good, bc it did this with just about every projectile in the game.

Which reminds me, how high do y'all think the chances of custom moves returning in some form or another, are?

 

[Rizen]

I just remember the funniest match up trait regarding wiz kick being, it's property of going over pk fire against Ness, which is also why his custom wizard dropkick was so good, bc it did this with just about every projectile in the game.

Which reminds me, how high do y'all think the chances of custom moves returning in some form or another, are?

I imagine they'd have mentioned customs by now if they had them. But you never know.

 

[meleebrawler]

I just remember the funniest match up trait regarding wiz kick being, it's property of going over pk fire against Ness, which is also why his custom wizard dropkick was so good, bc it did this with just about every projectile in the game.

Which reminds me, how high do y'all think the chances of custom moves returning in some form or another, are?

Customs as we know them will probably only live on with the Mii Fighters, since that's their reason for being and it makes them more unique compared to others. As for Palutena, having a set selection of powers still does a good enough job of representing her, and gives leeway to buff her mediocre normals.

I've had this idea for a mode that allows the use of something akin to EX moves in Street Fighter for special moves (complete with meter), giving them special properties including emulating some of the past custom's beneficial traits, though there is the issue of what inputs to use for them...

 

[_Ganondorf_]

I just remember the funniest match up trait regarding wiz kick being, it's property of going over pk fire against Ness, which is also why his custom wizard dropkick was so good, bc it did this with just about every projectile in the game.

Which reminds me, how high do y'all think the chances of custom moves returning in some form or another, are?

I wish Wiz drop kick was the standard one. Recovery and dealing with projectiles would be much easier.

 

[Boartobewild]

Customs as we know them will probably only live on with the Mii Fighters, since that's their reason for being and it makes them more unique compared to others. As for Palutena, having a set selection of powers still does a good enough job of representing her, and gives leeway to buff her mediocre normals.

I've had this idea for a mode that allows the use of something akin to EX moves in Street Fighter for special moves (complete with meter), giving them special properties including emulating some of the past custom's beneficial traits, though there is the issue of what inputs to use for them...

Well if it worked for Ryu, it could work for everybody else as well. He now does have his own unique trait of always facing his opponents, so it's not like we would take something crucial away from him.

As far as Ganon's d-b customs are concerned, drop kick could function by inputting an upper halfcircle in the direction you want to use it for and the other one by inputting down, back for example, for flame wave you could just make a pivot input to give it less range but have it more power and flame chain just down and then the direction you want to go in and so on and so forth.

Ofc as you mentionned, how well the game would read those inputs is another matter entirely, but it would definitely not be impossible.

 

[meleebrawler]

Well if it worked for Ryu, it could work for everybody else as well. He now does have his own unique trait of always facing charactets, so it's not like we would take something crucial away from him.

As far as Ganon's d-b customs are concerned, drop kick could function by inputting an upper halfcircle in the direction you want to use it for and the other one by inputting down, back for example, for flame wave you could just make a pivot input to give it less range but have it more power and flame chain just down and then the direction you want to go in and so on and so forth.

Ofc as you mentionned, how well the game would read those inputs is another matter entirely, but it would definitely not be impossible.

Does Ryu still have his frame 5 turnaround in non 1v1s?

Edit: Actually, I think a better idea would be to make A+B the EX button, as opposed to smashing. This way things remain simple, Ryu stays unique and he can have them too.

There could be variations on ground & air, like air versions are recovery focused and ground is offensive.

 

[Quillion]

Honestly, if customs are coming back, they should either go all in or go home.

Instead of Mario having his Ice Balls or Boomerang, Link using the Fire Rod or Cane of Byrna, Kirby using a Beam Whip or Sword, and of course, Ganondorf not using his Phantom summoning or energy ball, we just got half-done variations of moves that were already in the game.

If giving the characters actually different moves is untenable (which it probably is given the development time), they should just get rid of the idea for everyone but Miis.

 

[Boartobewild]

Honestly, if customs are coming back, they should either go all in or go home.

Instead of Mario having his Ice Balls or Boomerang, Link using the Fire Rod or Cane of Byrna, Kirby using a Beam Whip or Sword, and of course, Ganondorf not using his Phantom summoning or energy ball, we just got half-done variations of moves that were already in the game.

If giving the characters actually different moves is untenable (which it probably is given the development time), they should just get rid of the idea for everyone but Miis.

I can't subscribe/support that idea at all, I'm afraid. For one, do you seriously expect the developers to even make 4 completely new/different Specials( at the very least according to you) and invest that kind of time and commitement for all +60 characters? I'm sorry that just sounds childish and extremely unreasonable.

Secondly the only real Problem with customs was that a lot of moves were either hardly different/ didn't offer any advantage/were just plain worse or B.) were completely ****ing broken ( like Dk cyclon for example). Those issues can be easily fixed through just more tweaking or balancing. How would you do the same with completely new moves though?!?! FIrst it would take about 6 times more time/effort to create/ design those and about half as time balancing/tweaking them.

NOW TELL ME! What kind of sane person would willingly go through that kind of trouble?!?!

 

[Space Detective]

I can't subscribe/support that idea at all, I'm afraid. For one, do you seriously expect the developers to even make 4 completely new/different Specials( at the very least according to you) and invest that kind of time and commitement for all +60 characters?

Yeah, that is ridiculous. It could be reasonable in a "reboot with 1/3rd the roster" scenario however.

 

[Quillion]

I can't subscribe/support that idea at all, I'm afraid. For one, do you seriously expect the developers to even make 4 completely new/different Specials( at the very least according to you) and invest that kind of time and commitement for all +60 characters?

No, which is why I said that they either need to take it further OR outright get rid of the idea.

Miis can keep them since customization is their whole deal, but it was a most likely impossible task to make a custom system that was fun to use. Which is why they need to throw out this idea. It may sound like "throwing out the baby with the bathwater", but this baby is just too demanding to maintain.

 

[meleebrawler]

No, which is why I said that they either need to take it further OR outright get rid of the idea.

Miis can keep them since customization is their whole deal, but it was a most likely impossible task to make a custom system that was fun to use. Which is why they need to throw out this idea. It may sound like "throwing out the baby with the bathwater", but this baby is just too demanding to maintain.

This is why I advocate for an "EX" move enabled mode, it would allow for these "mild variation" customs to be implemented in a way that doesn't sacrifice too much, yet remain balanced by limited use.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Found a nice video analyzing Ganon from the demo seems pretty detailed and accurate.

 

[meleebrawler]

Found a nice video analyzing Ganon from the demo seems pretty detailed and accurate.

Regarding the new sword vs. old smashes debate... when you're a character whose utilt has, ''special'' uses, as opposed to anti-airing or used in combos, you'll appreciate the extra disjoint and coverage.

 

[Quillion]

Regarding the new sword vs. old smashes debate... when you're a character whose utilt has, ''special'' uses, as opposed to anti-airing or used in combos, you'll appreciate the extra disjoint and coverage.

Point taken, but my main problem is that the new Smashes just aren't visually appealing. Now I won't be able to finish off my opponents with raw, brutal strength.

 

[Kierring19]

Ganondorf should've stayed the same reincarnation from Twilight Princess. Giving him a sword was what everyone wanted but I would've preferred him having the sword of six sages rather than the clunky sword he has in ultimate. And also OoT Ganondorf doesn't really use a sword, I know that he does use his sword in the Spaceworld 2000 Legend of Zelda Tech Demo but then that's not a accurate representation of OoT Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time game, but also TP Ganondorf would help represent Twilight Princess. since Link has moved on to BotW, Zelda is now representing Link Between Worlds, Sheik and Young Link already represent Ocarina & Majora? and Toon Link holds the Wind Waker name, Ganondorf could've then kept the Twilight Princess title in Super Smash Bros. This would then bring a wide range of characters each representing an indiviual Zelda series. and the sword of six sages would also allow him to have less ending lag of his sword attacks and overall be much quicker since I would consider its not that heavy for Ganondorf since he uses it with one hand.

 

[Boartobewild]

Ganondorf should've stayed the same reincarnation from Twilight Princess. Giving him a sword was what everyone wanted but I would've preferred him having the sword of six sages rather than the clunky sword he has in ultimate. And also OoT Ganondorf doesn't really use a sword, I know that he does use his sword in the Spaceworld 2000 Legend of Zelda Tech Demo but then that's not a accurate representation of OoT Ganondorf in Ocarina of Time game, but also TP Ganondorf would help represent Twilight Princess. since Link has moved on to BotW, Zelda is now representing Link Between Worlds, Sheik and Young Link already represent Ocarina & Majora? and Toon Link holds the Wind Waker name, Ganondorf could've then kept the Twilight Princess title in Super Smash Bros. This would then bring a wide range of characters each representing an indiviual Zelda series. and the sword of six sages would also allow him to have less ending lag of his sword attacks and overall be much quicker since I would consider its not that heavy for Ganondorf since he uses it with one hand.

I'm sorry to say, you are definitely in the minority here buddy, but unlike me and a lot of other people who would have liked to see an incarnation of either Ww Ganon or Hw Ganon, which would have meant dual sword wielding and consequently faster Ganon, you can at least go back to brawl and Smash 4 if it bothers you so much. And satisfying your weird need for game represantation OCD, is prob something not a lot of people will agree with, I'm afraid.

As for the glowing Sage sword. Ok, that's a matter of taste, but let me ask you this----->Between a glowing rather thin and small Long-sword for someone his size ( which is only natural, since that sword was just meant to kill him but failed and he just then took for himself) and a hulking massive, broad but admittedely crude but also viscious blade ( that's more reminiscient of a fire emblem armor slayer, sort of a sword-axe hybrid, but can also be compared to the Dark knut broad swords in various games), which one seems more suited to Ganon's slow but devastating playstyle/moveset?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Which reminds me, how high do y'all think the chances of custom moves returning in some form or another, are?

Considering the changes to Palutena's special moves, some people have quickly assumed that custom specials are dead. But that really isn't enough evidence to rule them out, since Palutena could always receive custom variants of her modified special moves.

 

[Kierring19]

I'm sorry to say, you are definitely in the minority here buddy, but unlike me and a lot of other people who would have liked to see an incarnation of either Ww Ganon or Hw Ganon, which would have meant dual sword wielding and consequently faster Ganon, you can at least go back to brawl and Smash 4 if it bothers you so much. And satisfying your weird need for game represantation OCD, is prob something not a lot of people will agree with, I'm afraid.

As for the glowing Sage sword. Ok, that's a matter of taste, but let me ask you this----->Between a glowing rather thin and small Long-sword for someone his size ( which is only natural, since that sword was just meant to kill him but failed and he just then took for himself) and a hulking massive, broad but admittedely crude but also viscious blade ( that's more reminiscient of a fire emblem armor slayer, sort of a sword-axe hybrid, but can also be compared to the Dark knut broad swords in various games), which one seems more suited to Ganon's slow but devastating playstyle/moveset?

I'm sure I am a minority when it comes to wanting to stick with TP Ganondorf, I'm not really bothered with having Ocarina of Time Ganondorf in ultimate. I'd just rather have had TP Ganondorf stay there, and tried to make reasons as why he should've stayed. I didn't really want to see all the Twilight Princess characters go, so I thought having a Zelda character representing an individual Zelda series would've just been cool. therefore keeping TP alive I guess. who knows maybe they will add Zant which I doubt but that would be a cool character to play as, especially since he has dual wielding swords, also I didn't really care if people would agree with me. And hey, if they added a different incarnation of Ganondorf I would probably be more acceptable towards the fact that TP Ganondorf has been replaced especially if it was by Ganondorf from Hw since yeah it would have meant fast but kinda slow dual sword wielding and those swords look devastating and vicious and fit Ganondorf quite well also introducing something new to Smash, but not really Ganondorf Ww since you talk about "a hulking massive, broad but admittedely crude but also vicious blade" "which one seems to more suited to Ganon's slow but devastating playstyle/moveset?" his two skinny blades don't suit that play style of Ganon. Zant would be the better choice for the fGanondorf Ww style.

The Sage Sword and OoT Armour Slayer Sword, They are both equally suited to Ganon's slow but devastating playstyle, no? I would still push for the Sage Sword though because take Ike for an example he is quite slow and has a sword which can still be devastating to use. I'm sure the Sage Sword would be the same and also it just stands out more than the armour slayer sword which has nothing really interesting about it. The Sage Sword would've also have helped his speed when it comes to attacks, reducing ending lag allowing him not to get punished so easily.

 

[Space Detective]

Considering the changes to Palutena's special moves, some people have quickly assumed that custom specials are dead. But that really isn't enough evidence to rule them out, since Palutena could always receive custom variants of her modified special moves.

Thing is that it's not just Palutena, but the Miis too. Custom moves were one of the reasons they couldn't be used outside of matches with friends online, and they mentioned in the Direct that they want to get Miis going online.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Thing is that it's not just Palutena, but the Miis too. Custom moves were one of the reasons they couldn't be used outside of matches with friends online, and they mentioned in the Direct that they want to get Miis going online.

I guess one option would be to enable custom special moves, but any equipment that your custom fighter has will be disabled against random opponents.

 

[Idon]

Using an elegant blade of light meant to execute you as your weapon of choice as the king of evil and darkness is the sickest **** ever and I won't have anyone tell me otherwise.
Project Ganondorf, let's gooooooooooo

 

[Boartobewild]

I'm sure I am a minority when it comes to wanting to stick with TP Ganondorf, I'm not really bothered with having Ocarina of Time Ganondorf in ultimate. I'd just rather have had TP Ganondorf stay there, and tried to make reasons as why he should've stayed. I didn't really want to see all the Twilight Princess characters go, so I thought having a Zelda character representing an individual Zelda series would've just been cool. therefore keeping TP alive I guess. who knows maybe they will add Zant which I doubt but that would be a cool character to play as, especially since he has dual wielding swords, also I didn't really care if people would agree with me. And hey, if they added a different incarnation of Ganondorf I would probably be more acceptable towards the fact that TP Ganondorf has been replaced especially if it was by Ganondorf from Hw since yeah it would have meant fast but kinda slow dual sword wielding and those swords look devastating and vicious and fit Ganondorf quite well also introducing something new to Smash, but not really Ganondorf Ww since you talk about "a hulking massive, broad but admittedely crude but also vicious blade" "which one seems to more suited to Ganon's slow but devastating playstyle/moveset?" his two skinny blades don't suit that play style of Ganon. Zant would be the better choice for the fGanondorf Ww style.

The Sage Sword and OoT Armour Slayer Sword, They are both equally suited to Ganon's slow but devastating playstyle, no? I would still push for the Sage Sword though because take Ike for an example he is quite slow and has a sword which can still be devastating to use. I'm sure the Sage Sword would be the same and also it just stands out more than the armour slayer sword which has nothing really interesting about it. The Sage Sword would've also have helped his speed when it comes to attacks, reducing ending lag allowing him not to get punished so easily.

Fair enough. Though as far as what playstyle fits Ganon best, there's no definitive answer as he has multiple fighting styles in the Games himself, if it hadn't been for Melee and I'm just speculating here, Ganon would never have come to be known as a big, slow heavy hitter, as both Oot and Ww especially didn't give that kind of impression ( unless you count Ganon in his hulking Demon king form, but that's a transformation triple his "Human" size, expecting him to move fast in that state would have been ludicrous).

I'm not gonna reiterate Ganon's 2 possible alternate play/character styles as that has been discussed at length in more appropiate threads. I will say though, that I like the idea of giving Zant ( but Ghirahim would be an even better choice IMHO) dual wielding, as to also represent other villains, which we are still severly lacking in the roster anyway...... <_<

As for who I would like to represent the Tp game, that choice would without a doubt fall on Link. But hold on, bc I can already see your confused expression and furrowed brow, so bear with me. I'm not talking about that miserable excuse of a represantation we got in Brawl( much like Botw link now, if you ask me), but a version that actually incorporates items unique to Twilight princess into his specials!

His Neutral B) would be his Bomb arrows,

Side b) a charge/rush move with his spinner,

Up-b) should be his hidden art the big jump slash, working like Kirby's Final cutter but ending with a shockwave/earthquake,

And finally Down-b) the best Item in the game,
the ball and chain, spinning Link around like his spin attack( or doc's cyclone), but on the final hit being flung in a direction of your choice!

You could also incorporate the hidden arts and other unique attacks into his normals, as I think it's a crime that all link's share most of the same moves despite being very different from each other and having so many other options and venues( like Mm link transforming into the 3 races, sort of like Pkmn trainer), and Toon link is the most unique and successful of these "clones" anyway. Seriously though, if I were a Link main, I'd be ****ing pissed.

 

[Idon]

I wanted Young Link to have his moves from the Hero's Shade.
Like his down smash could be the great spin attack, side smash could be the mortal draw, up smash could be the leaping slash.
That kinda stuff.
It'd be so subtle and such a strong nod to fans of the lore of the series. But nah, enjoy the same crappy Young Link from Melee, I guess.

Fierce Deity's never gonna be as cool as HW, smh...

 

[Kierring19]

Fair enough. Though as far as what playstyle fits Ganon best, there's no definitive answer as he has multiple fighting styles in the Games himself, if it hadn't been for Melee and I'm just speculating here, Ganon would never have come to be known as a big, slow heavy hitter, as both Oot and Ww especially didn't give that kind of impression ( unless you count Ganon in his hulking Demon king form, but that's a transformation triple his "Human" size, expecting him to move fast in that state would have been ludicrous).

I'm not gonna reiterate Ganon's 2 possible alternate play/character styles as that has been discussed at length in more appropiate threads. I will say though, that I like the idea of giving Zant ( but Ghirahim would be an even better choice IMHO) dual wielding, as to also represent other villains, which we are still severly lacking in the roster anyway...... <_<

As for who I would like to represent the Tp game, that choice would without a doubt fall on Link. But hold on, bc I can already see your confused expression and furrowed brow, so bear with me. I'm not talking about that miserable excuse of a represantation we got in Brawl( much like Botw link now, if you ask me), but a version that actually incorporates items unique to Twilight princess into his specials!

His Neutral B) would be his Bomb arrows,

Side b) a charge/rush move with his spinner,

Up-b) should be his hidden art the big jump slash, working like Kirby's Final cutter but ending with a shockwave/earthquake,

And finally Down-b) the best Item in the game,
the ball and chain, spinning Link around like his spin attack( or doc's cyclone), but on the final hit being flung in a direction of your choice!

You could also incorporate the hidden arts and other unique attacks into his normals, as I think it's a crime that all link's share most of the same moves despite being very different from each other and having so many other options and venues( like Mm link transforming into the 3 races, sort of like Pkmn trainer), and Toon link is the most unique and successful of these "clones" anyway. Seriously though, if I were a Link main, I'd be ****ing pissed.

Hmm, it would've been interesting if they actually added the hidden arts to TP Link, also I thought they wouldve done so much better with BotW Link since you have Young Link that already carries the typical Link moveset so they could've gone all out of giving BotW Link an even more unique moveset, with statis, and incorporating any of the champion's powers too . I don't even know what they've done with Link's side B, is it still a boomerang? if so then that's quite stupid.

But coming back to TP Link's moveset:
I do agree with Bomb Arrows for his Neutral B
But his Side B being the Spinner? eh, I would say it would make for a good horizontal recovery and be great to spam and annoy people much like Wario's Bike, though I'd rather set the Ball & Chain to Side B instead. I can imagine it if you throw it off of a ledge then it would actually dangle down and it would make a great edge guarding tool and it would become a hit box again when Link is yanking it back.
Up B can stay the same as the hero spin
Down B on the other hand. If we are adding Hidden Skills, (I know we have already have a lot of characters that have this move so why should we push one on Link but I think it could still work well) But the mortal draw could be used as a counter and would like an awesome move since the sword would be in Link's sheath and quickly drawn out, also was one of the most badass and satisfying moves to use in TP. so I think it should be added
And here's another hidden art, one that can be incorporated in a downward aerial which could be the Helm Strike. and that's all I can think of for a better representation of TP Link

I wanted Young Link to have his moves from the Hero's Shade.
Like his down smash could be the great spin attack, side smash could be the mortal draw, up smash could be the leaping slash.
That kinda stuff.
It'd be so subtle and such a strong nod to fans of the lore of the series. But nah, enjoy the same crappy Young Link from Melee, I guess.

Fierce Deity's never gonna be as cool as HW, smh...

Would Young Link really have known those moves? I know he is the one whom teaches TP Link those moves but maybe not till he was much older he learnt those moves. And he's never been shown to have those moves in any game. The better moveset would be to focus on the goron, deku and zora masks. Down B would be the Goron ground pound, Neutral B could be the Deku Bubble, Side B might be Zora's boomerang things, Up B is slightly more tricky but you could go with the Deku Flower Glide which would be quite ideal since it's maybe the only move to send him upwards? And Young Link just does the aerials and smash attacks (or you could add fierce deity for those).

Or you could just have them on their own and switch like pokemon which would make a 4 characters in one situation, Goron can't jump but is powerful, Deku is about range and recovery, Zora has fast speed and but weaker attacks. And Young Link is pretty much just all around, he would have the weaknesses of all them apart from Goron's jump and the strengths of the three masks but much weaker.

 

[Quillion]

Using an elegant blade of light meant to execute you as your weapon of choice as the king of evil and darkness is the sickest **** ever and I won't have anyone tell me otherwise.
Project Ganondorf, let's gooooooooooo

**** that, Ganondorf doing more damage than any sword with just his bare hands is one of the greatest things to come out of anything Zelda related ever.

The Spaceworld sword is already lame for damaging a great playstyle, but that skinny little light sword would make even less sense.

 

[Idon]

**** that, Ganondorf doing more damage than any sword with just his bare hands is one of the greatest things to come out of anything Zelda related ever.

The Spaceworld sword is already lame for damaging a great playstyle, but that skinny little light sword would make even less sense.

Nah dude, it's thematic or something.
Only thing cooler would be Link wielding a sword of darkness...

Like the Fierce Deeeeeityyyyy.

 

[Erimir]

**** that, Ganondorf doing more damage than any sword with just his bare hands is one of the greatest things to come out of anything Zelda related ever.

The Spaceworld sword is already lame for damaging a great playstyle, but that skinny little light sword would make even less sense.

Man, I've got some bad news for you about Ganondorf in the Zelda games then.

You must hate the way he's been depicted in every appearance other than Smash.

 

[Boartobewild]

Nah dude, it's thematic or something.
Only thing cooler would be Link wielding a sword of darkness...

Like the Fierce Deeeeeityyyyy.

I don't know, while Fierce Deity is a pretty cool concept, as it basically is supossed to represent the wrath and bitterness of all the suffering caused by Majora, it's execution was actually not all that special when you take all the lore away, to warrant the hype for it.

I mean just look at the best implementation of Fierce Deity --------> Hyrule warriors. Fierce Deity Link is nothing else than a beefed, buffed and speed up version of Master sword Link and some unique asthetics and flashier specials to go along with it. His only real claim to fame in canon, is being able to shoot Sword laser's against Bosses, that pierce any sort of invulnerable State and do a crap ton of damage to boot, but that's it.............

So how would that make for an interesting character? The only thing I could possibly think of to be faithful, is give him a neutral special like Cloud but also give it the properties of bayo's N-b to be used after every other move but stronger and maybe just a single projectile, instead of repeated weak fire?

I don't know about you, but in a franchise, where projectile chars already invalidated about half the cast most of the time, I don't want to be facing another broken mess like that. And yeah it's pretty likely that Sakurai would implement him like that, since he didn't care at all, about balancing the majority of Dlc chars at the end of Smash4, if the fact that Ganon didn't have any possible followup after failed Tech Flame choke, despite suffering a great deal against those Dlc characters, was any indication of that matter.

Also if we started implementing chars like that, what would come next; Shadow with Chaos Control? Oni Akuma? Shadow Mewtoo? I'm sure that People could think of many more examples of dark edgy characters with over powered attributes and movesets.