clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
Honestly it'd be a better stage for competitive play. Ballin the mad genius
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A Case Against Hyrule
- Thread starter ¨°PÞ-§°¨ Bane
- Start date
KeroKeroppi
Smash Champion
Dude I literally thought the exact same thing when I found the picture. I was like, "Wtf there's no way that this isn't the taco bell in my town."
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
I think I've told you this before, but opposing something because it's "more like Melee" is a pretty ****ty reason dude
On the flip side, supporting something because it would be "more like Melee" would also be a ****ty reason
But I'm pretty sure nobody wants to implement stage bans or whatever just for that reason. If so then yeah that's pretty dumb.
Anyway my point to you is that you should support whatever you support because you think it's more fair, not because of how other communities work.
I'm only singling you out because mostly everything else is rehashing the same stuff once again. So for everyone else, carry on, michaeljacksonpopcorn.gif, etc.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
why's it a ****ty reason? i do not like anything about melee and if things in 64 start to take a turn and start to morph into a mini melee community i'd be quite sad.
keep the two separate and don't attempt to assimilate one into the other (timers stage bans stock count etc). just...let them do their thing and let us do ours and don't take working ideas from melee and expect them to work in 64 and blahblahblah etc etc.
but that is not merely the only reason i don't want full list stage bans and stuff. i gave a few others. i think. unless i deleted them in my post before hitting post. in which case, meh.
keep the two separate and don't attempt to assimilate one into the other (timers stage bans stock count etc). just...let them do their thing and let us do ours and don't take working ideas from melee and expect them to work in 64 and blahblahblah etc etc.
but that is not merely the only reason i don't want full list stage bans and stuff. i gave a few others. i think. unless i deleted them in my post before hitting post. in which case, meh.
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
It's ****ty because:
X- 64
Y- melee
A- Any change to 64 ruleset
cobr logic:
If:
| X - Y| > |(X+A) - Y|
Then A is bad
If
|X - Y| < |(X + A) - Y|
Then A is good.
regular logic:
If:
(X+A) > X
Then A is good.
If:
(X + A) < X
Then A is bad.
With regular logic Y has no part in how good or bad a rule change is.
X- 64
Y- melee
A- Any change to 64 ruleset
cobr logic:
If:
| X - Y| > |(X+A) - Y|
Then A is bad
If
|X - Y| < |(X + A) - Y|
Then A is good.
regular logic:
If:
(X+A) > X
Then A is good.
If:
(X + A) < X
Then A is bad.
With regular logic Y has no part in how good or bad a rule change is.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
now employ emotion and enjoyment factors.
Sangoku
Smash Master
Don't forget cobr is an English major who thought Switzerland was the capital of Russia.
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Having a match timer is nowhere close to being a melee-only thing.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
this is bull****, i just couldn't find it on a map, which is totally normal because switzerland has never done anything of note besides give us faulty cheese.
and also, i'm aware it's not a melee only thing. but instituting a timer would make it more similar to melee than mortal kombat, because they're already similar games and we're not really that affiliated with anyone else.
Yobolight
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,126
It is ironic for a competitive 64 player to say that he hates the influence of Melee because if it weren't for a former Melee player (Isai) we would all still be playing with Items on Sector Z.
Melee developed a competitive rule-set (Stock mode, No items, less stages) in the early-mid 2000s and this consensus was ported back for competitive 64 play.
Whether you like it or not, Melee basically laid the groundwork for "competitive smash" even though it came out after Smash 64.
If you want to "rebel" against the influence of Melee, then you can play the game on timed free-for-all with items (the default settings of the game).
Melee developed a competitive rule-set (Stock mode, No items, less stages) in the early-mid 2000s and this consensus was ported back for competitive 64 play.
Whether you like it or not, Melee basically laid the groundwork for "competitive smash" even though it came out after Smash 64.
If you want to "rebel" against the influence of Melee, then you can play the game on timed free-for-all with items (the default settings of the game).
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
another completely useless yobolight post.
they had timers in melee in 2004. we had the ability to use timers in 64 in 2004 via stopwatches and such, but that didn't happen.
they had many more stages in 2004. we still have fewer stages and have, over the course of almost a decade, realized what stages are competitively viable and which ones are not. why go backwards and import a full stage list and make bans from that? it didn't happen.
they used 4 stocks in 2004. hell, i saw an early isai/johnny falcon ditto that had 6 stocks, from 2006. since then it's been dialed back to 5. we've discussed the stock issue. we could've had four stocks all along, but again, it didn't happen.
so sure, even if melee laid the groundwork, there are things being brought up now that were able to put into effect back then - but none of them happened.
now, what with the extensive pika dittos at zenith, m2k's venture into the 64 tourney scene at smashacre and ddos, and melee's exposure via evo, everyone who wasn't a part of 64 is trying to get more involved, it seems. as i said, see chibo's post. see posts from nintendude comparing stocks and run time. see capps' idea of turning brawl into 64 (not something i am calling a negative, but i don't know if it would have ever gained steam had project m not occurred).
so please, don't patronize me. **** that happened back then and **** that's happening now are hardly comparable.
they had timers in melee in 2004. we had the ability to use timers in 64 in 2004 via stopwatches and such, but that didn't happen.
they had many more stages in 2004. we still have fewer stages and have, over the course of almost a decade, realized what stages are competitively viable and which ones are not. why go backwards and import a full stage list and make bans from that? it didn't happen.
they used 4 stocks in 2004. hell, i saw an early isai/johnny falcon ditto that had 6 stocks, from 2006. since then it's been dialed back to 5. we've discussed the stock issue. we could've had four stocks all along, but again, it didn't happen.
so sure, even if melee laid the groundwork, there are things being brought up now that were able to put into effect back then - but none of them happened.
now, what with the extensive pika dittos at zenith, m2k's venture into the 64 tourney scene at smashacre and ddos, and melee's exposure via evo, everyone who wasn't a part of 64 is trying to get more involved, it seems. as i said, see chibo's post. see posts from nintendude comparing stocks and run time. see capps' idea of turning brawl into 64 (not something i am calling a negative, but i don't know if it would have ever gained steam had project m not occurred).
so please, don't patronize me. **** that happened back then and **** that's happening now are hardly comparable.
mixa
Banned via Warnings
rofl
'Murica level: battlecow
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
pika dittos at zenith lead to complaints from both onlookers and stream viewers. streamers themselves criticized the long winded boring matches, and since the general population of stream viewers is composed of melee players, this can present an issue to the stream itself. fewer viewers is not good for anyone. having to endure pika dittos leads to fewer viewers.
now, i am not one to say you shouldn't play pika dittos - i find it boring myself, but i do not think the snooze factor of a match should define the match itself or prevent it from being played. capisci?
concerning smashacre, if m2k didn't hold up melee and brawl brackets, there'd be no problem. things would still be running smoothly. there have been campy matches before with no response whatsoever from anyone else - all of a sudden, because he entered three events and went to the greatest possible lengths to win, chibo makes a post concerning the stagelist, how implementing a timer and a stock change altered the game a bit, etc. from his post: (also, chibo, this isn't me insulting you or calling you out; i am merely using you as an example, there's no harm intended here)
"I almost feel like Brawl became campy due to a wealth of defensive options, and 64 becomes campy from such amazing offensive options, that players will naturally play campy to avoid such situations, especially while in a lead. Melee offers a balance of both to keep a good pace of the game in most instances. "
" Something that can help make the game run quicker is something that will make it further welcomed at other events, and can keep the pace of matches much more fresh."
"I personally don't think a stage like this would stay legal in the other Smash games for this purpose,"
again, it comes down to our exposure. melee got a hell of a lot of it at evo and there will always be melee tournaments around. but seldom will they be willing to host 64 at the same event. and why? because of the aforementioned occurrences. especially if there's a stream involved. if melee players want to watch melee and have to be subjected to wf lf and gf of pika dittos, the numbers are gonna drop...so is the income. chibo said it himself - if the game runs faster it will be further welcomed at other events.
evo sorta gave smash a bit of a kick - a lot of people now saw it as a viable competitive game, one that isn't merely fun. what scares me is the idea that people are gonna look at melee and all its nuances, start to play it, and then look at 64 and either a) refuse to host it at tournaments because of its "long campy matches" or b) have absolutely nothing but kirbys sitting around on hyrule. if hyrule stays, anyway.
two ending statements:
one, i never said the aforementioned things had anything to do with each other, but that they all had instances of people from outside the 64 community attempting to get more involved in and try to change things that have been working for a while.
two, your inability to understand is not a result of my "poor job of getting my thoughts across in english". perhaps you should work harder in your comp class if you don't get my points.
i may've said this in the thread before, but move hyrule to a cp and put peach's in starter. after a while to think about it, though, i would be okay with hyrule being banned. sad, but okay.
now, i am not one to say you shouldn't play pika dittos - i find it boring myself, but i do not think the snooze factor of a match should define the match itself or prevent it from being played. capisci?
concerning smashacre, if m2k didn't hold up melee and brawl brackets, there'd be no problem. things would still be running smoothly. there have been campy matches before with no response whatsoever from anyone else - all of a sudden, because he entered three events and went to the greatest possible lengths to win, chibo makes a post concerning the stagelist, how implementing a timer and a stock change altered the game a bit, etc. from his post: (also, chibo, this isn't me insulting you or calling you out; i am merely using you as an example, there's no harm intended here)
"I almost feel like Brawl became campy due to a wealth of defensive options, and 64 becomes campy from such amazing offensive options, that players will naturally play campy to avoid such situations, especially while in a lead. Melee offers a balance of both to keep a good pace of the game in most instances. "
" Something that can help make the game run quicker is something that will make it further welcomed at other events, and can keep the pace of matches much more fresh."
"I personally don't think a stage like this would stay legal in the other Smash games for this purpose,"
again, it comes down to our exposure. melee got a hell of a lot of it at evo and there will always be melee tournaments around. but seldom will they be willing to host 64 at the same event. and why? because of the aforementioned occurrences. especially if there's a stream involved. if melee players want to watch melee and have to be subjected to wf lf and gf of pika dittos, the numbers are gonna drop...so is the income. chibo said it himself - if the game runs faster it will be further welcomed at other events.
evo sorta gave smash a bit of a kick - a lot of people now saw it as a viable competitive game, one that isn't merely fun. what scares me is the idea that people are gonna look at melee and all its nuances, start to play it, and then look at 64 and either a) refuse to host it at tournaments because of its "long campy matches" or b) have absolutely nothing but kirbys sitting around on hyrule. if hyrule stays, anyway.
two ending statements:
one, i never said the aforementioned things had anything to do with each other, but that they all had instances of people from outside the 64 community attempting to get more involved in and try to change things that have been working for a while.
two, your inability to understand is not a result of my "poor job of getting my thoughts across in english". perhaps you should work harder in your comp class if you don't get my points.
i may've said this in the thread before, but move hyrule to a cp and put peach's in starter. after a while to think about it, though, i would be okay with hyrule being banned. sad, but okay.
SheerMadness
Smash Master
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2005
- Messages
- 4,781
Wish I could argue more but my internet is out until friday and my 3g phone is too old and slow to wanna post much on here.
Anyway just man up and learn how tobait left side hyrule campers intelligently. Or ban it, doesn't hurt me I **** on dreamland.
Anyway just man up and learn how tobait left side hyrule campers intelligently. Or ban it, doesn't hurt me I **** on dreamland.
KeroKeroppi
Smash Champion
There's a pretty intense debate going on here..
It would be a shame if a HERD OF DEER WERE TO APPEAR.
It would be a shame if a HERD OF DEER WERE TO APPEAR.
Sedda
Smash Champion
I like this ruleset. We should implement Kero's Hyrule deer ruleset.There's a pretty intense debate going on here..
It would be a shame if a HERD OF DEER WERE TO APPEAR.
Yobolight
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2012
- Messages
- 1,126
Hopefully nobody has crappy internet.There's a pretty intense debate going on here..
It would be a shame if a HERD OF DEER WERE TO APPEAR.
I like how you allways come to this conclusion no matter what subject you discuss lol.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
I like how you allways come to this conclusion no matter what subject you discuss lol.
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
^^aa i can't like posts multiple times, so i just liked and unliked your post a couple of times. I hope you get the notifications and just know even the unlikes were really likes.
"good" and "bad" are highly general words that mean different things to different people and employ just the right amount of emotion and enjoyment depending on who it is. PWNED.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
so they are general enough to be completely ignored?
FOHHHH
FOHHHH
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
obvi not cmon dude.
Instead of looking at the overall utility of a particular ruleset, you are looking at how different that ruleset is from another unrelated ruleset. You're basically insisting on using the English system instead of the metric system just because its different, regardless of how ****ty the English system is. Not that 64 ruleset is ****ty, or that melee ruleset is the gold standarad by any means, but how good either is has NOTHING to do with how good the other is.
I don't think you actually believe this though. If we did 1 stock random stage that would be pretty far from melee, but I doubt you would like that. Same goes for 100 stock. There must be something else going on in that cobra mind of yours.
Instead of looking at the overall utility of a particular ruleset, you are looking at how different that ruleset is from another unrelated ruleset. You're basically insisting on using the English system instead of the metric system just because its different, regardless of how ****ty the English system is. Not that 64 ruleset is ****ty, or that melee ruleset is the gold standarad by any means, but how good either is has NOTHING to do with how good the other is.
I don't think you actually believe this though. If we did 1 stock random stage that would be pretty far from melee, but I doubt you would like that. Same goes for 100 stock. There must be something else going on in that cobra mind of yours.
Cobrevolution
Smash Master
i love 1 stock random stage. we call it YOLO TOURNEY. single elim random char lock. it's great.
and i'm looking at people trying to port the current melee ruleset into the current 64 ruleset. this includes, as stated, full list stage banning, instituting a timer, and reducing stock count. we have had numerous discussions on all of these, and i am of the mind that none of them would enhance 64's competitive play at all. bringing melee-like elements into the game - which has come from people more closely affiliated with melee than with 64 - is something i would not enjoy at all.
so there are two things at work here: my own personal feelings towards melee and its community, and my feelings towards the actual rulesets of 64 and melee. on a competitive level, i believe that incorporating the latter into the former would not help the game or make it fairer. and on a personal level, i have found our community to be a lot more accepting, more relaxed, easier to talk to, more pleasant, and less rude.
sk thinks i shouldn't let my views of the other community interfere with how i want the ruleset to be. but if our ruleset starts to mimic theirs and a lot of them drift over an i am subjected to more of the kind of **** we all were at smashacre - and i'm not even referring to m2k's in-game antics - or at zenith - i am going to huff and puff quite a bit.
and i have no problem bringing a ****ing febreeze bottle with me wherever i go.
and i'm looking at people trying to port the current melee ruleset into the current 64 ruleset. this includes, as stated, full list stage banning, instituting a timer, and reducing stock count. we have had numerous discussions on all of these, and i am of the mind that none of them would enhance 64's competitive play at all. bringing melee-like elements into the game - which has come from people more closely affiliated with melee than with 64 - is something i would not enjoy at all.
so there are two things at work here: my own personal feelings towards melee and its community, and my feelings towards the actual rulesets of 64 and melee. on a competitive level, i believe that incorporating the latter into the former would not help the game or make it fairer. and on a personal level, i have found our community to be a lot more accepting, more relaxed, easier to talk to, more pleasant, and less rude.
sk thinks i shouldn't let my views of the other community interfere with how i want the ruleset to be. but if our ruleset starts to mimic theirs and a lot of them drift over an i am subjected to more of the kind of **** we all were at smashacre - and i'm not even referring to m2k's in-game antics - or at zenith - i am going to huff and puff quite a bit.
and i have no problem bringing a ****ing febreeze bottle with me wherever i go.
Fireblaster
Smash Lord
Okay but this thread is about getting rid of hyrule as a legal stage. The "full stage list with bans" was some idea someone tossed around and quickly got dismissed because it's too ridiculous. As someone who has played probably more competitive fighting games than anyone here, melee being my 2nd least played title, I still think incorporating a timer would be a good idea. Nearly all competitive games have timers on them and not just video games either. Games have timers for a reason; it's to make sure that they finish within a reasonable amount of time. Please do not use the awful logic of "including a timer makes it more like melee". That's the equivalent of saying "Not including a timer makes the game more like starcraft". I personally am leaning towards including timers in this game because it would force everyone to realize much faster what an awful stage hyrule is for competitive play.
As for the whole 4 vs 5 stocks debate, I don't believe 4 stocks is really necessary specially when evidence shows it really only cuts off 45 seconds off of a match as opposed to having 5 stocks. It also still wouldn't fix the main problem which is hyrule. But it's all your choice, community. Do you want to keep playing on this "fair stage" that "benefits low tiers much more" (i.e. only link) or do you want to avoid the embarrassment of saying "Yeah I'm a 64 player" and then having a match like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=D52KGq4jlMQ#t=780 showing up on stream to alienate everyone from playing or even paying attention to this game?
As for the whole 4 vs 5 stocks debate, I don't believe 4 stocks is really necessary specially when evidence shows it really only cuts off 45 seconds off of a match as opposed to having 5 stocks. It also still wouldn't fix the main problem which is hyrule. But it's all your choice, community. Do you want to keep playing on this "fair stage" that "benefits low tiers much more" (i.e. only link) or do you want to avoid the embarrassment of saying "Yeah I'm a 64 player" and then having a match like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=D52KGq4jlMQ#t=780 showing up on stream to alienate everyone from playing or even paying attention to this game?
Zenyore
Banned via Warnings
nah hyrule is mad cool once u get to know him
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
hyrule is a pretty great guy to go party with. Very charismatic, brings the laughs, and he always buys a few rounds of drinks which is awesome. But whenever we need to get something done that guy is a ****. ****ing says he'll get it done eventually and then never finishes the work.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Check the Apex thread.
banze
Smash Journeyman
Common Guys !!
you really should check out Brazilian Rules already !
they actually work for us !
you really should check out Brazilian Rules already !
they actually work for us !
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
banze i love you, but you and your countrymen are insane in the membrane
-_____- ha ha ha
seriously are you 5 years old?
someone teach this man about humor pls.
Zenyore
Banned via Warnings
oh so I come up with the idea of personificating Hyrule but clubba gets all the likes?
mixa
Banned via Warnings
ask Star King, he controls the business.
clubbadubba
Smash Master
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Messages
- 4,086
its funny because you always come to the conclusion of coming to a conclusion and then loling. :xzibit:
Judging by the Apex ruleset,
I guess this Case against Hyrule
...is Closed.
I guess this Case against Hyrule
...is Closed.
The Star King
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2007
- Messages
- 9,681
i allways come to a conclusion of coming to a conclusion? wtf drag your penis out of aa ass pls. he just went total ****** saying the same i did, when i pointed out yobo always tells that people likes items ffa, when they disagree with him. why you get super excited for nothing is on your ****ing bill.
asianaussie
Smash Hero
to be fair i just abuse olikus' posts because he's so outrageously hipster/norwegian
everything i say about him gets likes
everything i say about him gets likes
Zenyore
Banned via Warnings
You guys <3 :')