A 2nd Main for D3 Mains... Approaching Falco, Olimar, and Pikachu

[KnightMare516]

Hey i don't usually contribute often to character discussion threads since i don't really main anyone, or at least i used to not have a main. Now i find myself playing D3 that is if i do have a main, it is him. I have to say i know all the match ups best with him and have the most confidence with him. Thing is D3 dominates more than half the roster with a few exceptions, except those exceptions can really put a hurting on him.

3 of these horrible match ups for D3 is as you all should know, Falco, Olimar, and Pikachu. D3 really has to put in some work playing them and it is hard enough for his heavy *** to get close enough to do anything to them at all. Falco, Olimar and Pikachu can out camp the hell out of D3 and this makes it extremely difficult. Besides that D3 gets a lil taste of his own medicine against these 2, the chain grabbing. D3 can get chain grabbed to spiked by Falco and nearly endlessly chain grabbed across the stage by Pikachu's Fthrow. Olimar doesn't have a CG on DDD but he is the only character with a larger grab range and has better projectiles. All these characters have basically a 70 - 30 on DDD and we cant have that or before you know it u will be over 100 percent in 5 seconds (LOLimar)

This is why i believe D3 mains NEED a strong secondary that does very well against his counters. What is that secondary you might ask? Well to tell you the truth i really dont know yet. I am still experimenting myself who else i feel comfortable with. My first pick would have to be Game and Watch. He is a legit, high tier character that has an advantage on alot of campy characters even tho he really doesn't have a true projectile (please don't consider his neutral b a good projectile, it sucks and we all know it.)

Game and Watch can bucket nearly any projectile which says F you to campy Falcos and Pikas and has very powerful smashes with ******** good hit boxes. He simply gets the job done. He has turtle and neutral air and some intense D throw mind games. You can down throw to Dsmash if they don't tech roll. if they do u can tech chase to up smash and you can do a little chain grab with Dthrow to jab and repeat. He really has alot of options. He even does well against D3 incase you dont wanna have a D3 chain grab fest ditto match.

This is why i believe he is the best choice as a secondary for D3 mains out there. If i had to make a list it would go something like this.

1. Game and Watch
vs. Falco = 70/30
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

2. R.O.B.
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

3. Marth
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

4. Falco
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

5. Luigi
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 50/50

6. Metaknight
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

7. Zelda
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 45/55
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

8. Toon Link
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 40/60
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

9. Peach
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 40/60

10. Snake
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 40/60
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

These are in my opinion the best choices for a secondary if you main D3. Now i might be wrong since this is all based on my opinion but i must insist you try these guys out if you find yourself constantly get counter picked after owning with D3 in the first game then losing to a Falco in game 2 and 3.

If you are one of those die hard D3 fans and you want to main him only then i really don't know what to suggest. If anything can you tell me how to play and beat these counters cause i just will not win D3 vs Falco and i am talking about i have played Falco's like D1, Keitaro, C4?! and Pikachu's like Anther(online, but i dont play online anymore, it sux nuts XD), and Ron from TS. They are the reason why i am doing this and why i am striving to learn more about how to play against them or do what i been doing so far.... playing Game and Watch.

 

[qwertyman]

Game and Watch all the way.
If I had to have a secondary, I'd pick him.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Or you could.. you know.. lrn2ICs.

 

[KnightMare516]

Or you could.. you know.. lrn2ICs.

If i knew what u meant i would XD but i dont know what u mean when you say lrn2ICs

 

[ImALemon]

lrn2ICs = learn to ice climbers, correct? :D

 

[Monkey Wrench]

G&W is hands down the best(except MK)2nd for Dedede. Covers literally all of D3's bad matchups(except MK). And when facing matchups where G&W only has a slight advantage, or even a disadvantage(Snake) D3 covers that.

 

[Gates]

This is a good idea and I basically went through the same thing when I was trying to find a secondary. However, you forgot to factor in Dedede's worst matchup: Ice Climbers. Dedede loses more badly to ICs than Falco, Pikachu, and Olimar, by a significant margin. If you factored in ICs, you'd come out with the following list:

Game and Watch
vs. Ice Climbers = 60/40
vs. Falco = 70/30
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
50 net points

R.O.B.
vs. Ice Climbers = 60/40
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
50 net points

Marth
vs. Ice Climbers = 60/40
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
40 net points

Falco
vs. Ice Climbers = 45/55
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
25 net points

Luigi
vs. Ice Climbers = 45/55
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 50/50
25 net points

Metaknight
vs. Ice Climbers = 70/30
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
40 net points

Zelda
vs. Ice Climbers = 60/40
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 45/55
vs. Pikachu = 55/45
20 net points

Toon Link
vs. Ice Climbers = 50/50
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 40/60
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
0 net points

Fox
vs. Ice Climbers = 30/70
vs. Falco = 40/60
vs. Olimar = 50/50
vs. Pikachu = 30/70 (idk how you got 60/40 out of this, most Fox players say that this is their worst matchup lol)
-50 net points

Snake
vs. Ice Climbers = 70/30
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 40/60
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
20 net points

So the list would be more like:

1. G&W, ROB
3. Marth, MK
5. Falco, Luigi
7. Snake, Zelda
9. Toon Link
10. Fox

I only did the characters you had on there. If you want to do the whole cast, do it yourself lol.

 

[qwertyman]

Gates: Just for your information, Pikachu vs. Fox is officially "LOL" in Pikachu's favor.

Just to clarify.

 

[KnightMare516]

This is a good idea and I basically went through the same thing when I was trying to find a secondary. However, you forgot to factor in Dedede's worst matchup: Ice Climbers. Dedede loses more badly to ICs than Falco, Pikachu, and Olimar, by a significant margin. If you factored in ICs, you'd come out with the following list:

Game and Watch
vs. Ice Climbers = 60/40
vs. Falco = 70/30
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
50 net points

R.O.B.
vs. Ice Climbers = 60/40
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
50 net points

Marth
vs. Ice Climbers = 60/40
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
40 net points

Falco
vs. Ice Climbers = 45/55
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
25 net points

Luigi
vs. Ice Climbers = 45/55
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 70/30
vs. Pikachu = 50/50
25 net points

Metaknight
vs. Ice Climbers = 70/30
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
40 net points

Zelda
vs. Ice Climbers = 60/40
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 45/55
vs. Pikachu = 55/45
20 net points

Toon Link
vs. Ice Climbers = 50/50
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 40/60
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
0 net points

Fox
vs. Ice Climbers = 30/70
vs. Falco = 40/60
vs. Olimar = 50/50
vs. Pikachu = 30/70 (idk how you got 60/40 out of this, most Fox players say that this is their worst matchup lol)
-50 net points

Snake
vs. Ice Climbers = 70/30
vs. Falco = 50/50
vs. Olimar = 40/60
vs. Pikachu = 60/40
20 net points

So the list would be more like:

1. G&W, ROB
3. Marth, MK
5. Falco, Luigi
7. Snake, Zelda
9. Toon Link
10. Fox

I only did the characters you had on there. If you want to do the whole cast, do it yourself lol.

ya thanx for the input i completely forgot about fox vs pika the chaingrab is deadly. i forgot to factor that in but also i didnt put ice climbers cause i dont know really anyone that can consistantly do there cg and i have beaten a fair amount of ic with ddd so i guess that is just me.

ima take fox off that list

 

[Gates]

Gates: Just for your information, Pikachu vs. Fox is officially "LOL" in Pikachu's favor.

Just to clarify.

Oh, sorry, I forgot.

also i didnt put ice climbers cause i dont know really anyone that can consistantly do there cg and i have beaten a fair amount of ic with ddd so i guess that is just me.

You probably haven't played any IC mains at all then. I'm pretty sure a siginificant majority of IC mains can do the chaingrabs. Even without them though, it's still a hard matchup because you effectively can't grab them at all.

 

[KnightMare516]

Oh, sorry, I forgot.

You probably haven't played any IC mains at all then. I'm pretty sure a significant majority of IC mains can do the chaingrabs. Even without them though, it's still a hard matchup because you effectively can't grab them at all.

well when i play any type of ice climbers with D3 i basically focusing on separating them and once they are separated and near the edge that is the stock for them. i can easily gimp one of them with a back air if there off the stage and they wont recover if there is one. Also i can CG the hell out of a single ice climber.

if your a smart D3 you wont get grabbed by the ice climbers minuscule grab range. but in turn if i do get grabbed by someone who perfected there cg then that is my stock, but doesn't that go for any character?

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm actually trying to have a decent amount of counter picks going, sticking to Diddy, ICs, Falco, and Falcon.

 

[Pdiamond]

Gah, you all forget the best secondary of them all... Kirby =P

 

[KnightMare516]

Gah, you all forget the best secondary of them all... Kirby =P

he gets pretty much owned by all the same guys ddd does lolz

 

[Pdiamond]

he gets pretty much owned by all the same guys ddd does lolz

I disagree... My friend plays both Pika and G&W and he usually beats my DDD with them.

But then I go Kirby and **** his *** =P

 

[Gates]

Kirby
vs. Ice Climbers = 40/60
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 60/40
vs. Pikachu = 50/50
10 net points

If you disclude Ice Climbers, he's as good of a secondary as Metaknight. Otherwise he's still pretty decent.

 

[Pdiamond]

Well all I'm saying is imo I think Kirby is a okay secondary, and it's a lot of fun to play him ^_^

 

[KnightMare516]

I disagree... My friend plays both Pika and G&W and he usually beats my DDD with them.

But then I go Kirby and **** his *** =P

well that means he dont know the kirby matchup but olimar ***** kirby and game and watch ***** kirby. what gates that has to be wrong where do u get that info from. i play blackwaltz all the time and he says olimar ***** kirby

 

[Gates]

I got it from DanGR's matchup thread and the matchup threads it linked to.

Both the Olimar and Kirby matchup threads agree that Kirby has the advantage in the matchup. Maybe Blackwaltz knows something the rest of them don't. People in character backrooms tend to keep info from everyone, including other mains. Like that one super secret AT we have.

You're right about Game & Watch having an advantage over Kirby though.

 

[KnightMare516]

I got it from DanGR's matchup thread and the matchup threads it linked to.

Both the Olimar and Kirby matchup threads agree that Kirby has the advantage in the matchup. Maybe Blackwaltz knows something the rest of them don't. People in character backrooms tend to keep info from everyone, including other mains. Like that one super secret AT we have.

You're right about Game & Watch having an advantage over Kirby though.

lol i believe i have a vid on my wii actually of blackwaltz playing DM's kirby and 3 stocking it without getting 50 percent. then he told me ummm olimar kind ***** kirby because kirby really has no approach on him.

 

[Gates]

Olimar can be hard for anyone to approach when he gets a "perfect camp" going. If you don't know the matchup, you'll likely lose.

 

[PinkPwnageFrenzy]

Also, to be fair, you can't say *character* beats your friends so that makes them better, as it really doesn't. That just means your friends aren't very good at the matchup.

I've actually thought about picking up ROB, G&W is my secondary at the moment though.

 

[KnightMare516]

Also, to be fair, you can't say *character* beats your friends so that makes them better, as it really doesn't. That just means your friends aren't very good at the matchup.

I've actually thought about picking up ROB, G&W is my secondary at the moment though.

ya they are definitely 2 of the best to choose from if you do need a secondary for D3

 

[B0mbe1c]

Yes, lrn2ICs means learn to Ice climbers. Bthrow CGs work wonders on lightweights (Pika/Oli), and for Falco, you COULD just do a fthrow chain to Nana fair and edgehog them.

 

[Countcocofang]

i love what youve done what with the charts and numbers, but where im from, i have to deal with Diddy much more often than falco or olimar, could you maybe figure him into your calculations?

 

[Rawnie]

7. Zelda
vs. Falco = 60/40
vs. Olimar = 45/55
vs. Pikachu = 60/40

How did you get this? It's more 35/65
One of Zelda's worst match-ups. D:

 

[TKD]

Meta Knight's a good secondary? Meta Knight should be MAINED in my opinion. All of the top players go even against Meta Knight.

So if everyone goes even against him, how good a counterpick can he be? Oh well, if IC worry you much, he's MK's best match-up (along with Captain Falcon, they do that bad). But King Dedede can take on IC anyway I think.

 

[Ravener]

Meta Knight's a good secondary? Meta Knight should be MAINED in my opinion. All of the top players go even against Meta Knight.

So if everyone goes even against him, how good a counterpick can he be? Oh well, if IC worry you much, he's MK's best match-up (along with Captain Falcon, they do that bad). But King Dedede can take on IC anyway I think.

I definetly agree. However in my opinion I'd keep DDD as my main and MK as my second. Yer and MK is the best counterpick in the game and the MK/DDD players are awesome coz they have nothing to fear.

 

[Badjuju]

Since I don't know many Falco mains, I can't really help you out there, but I've heard that G&W v Falco matches are pretty intensely exciting. D3 v Pika is just rediculous because of the spammage and that dumb d-smash of Pikachu's that D3's fat bottom can't smash DI out of =(. I alt Lucas, and ICs right now, but Lucas isn't too good against CG-ers lol. In my opinion, IC all the way lol. The learning curve is a little steep, but the benefits are great in return.

 

[Rajam]

King Dedede + Game and Watch is a good option ( I main G&W and DDD is my secondary ) though this have two weak points: Metaknight ( obviously ) and Diddy... G&W is no good against this Monkey because of how he shuts down all of GW's approachs ( one of the best attributes of GW, saddly totally shut down by bananas, peanuts ) and because GW is generally bad picking up bananas from the ground, bad roll-dodge and bad get-up attack

 

[Smudge]

I'm still trying to decide on an Alt at the moment. But i've not really faced any of D3s true bad match-ups as of yet (Not been to a Brawl tournament so far and my mates all main CG-able characters)

Which of the advised characters is the quickest to pick up to a decent standard, my first tournaments next Sunday and I don't want to go in half-arsed.

 

[Badjuju]

I wish Lucas was better against Falco =(.

 

[Chileno4Live]

I think i'll pick up ROB as my secondary, though i secondary GaW now. First, i want to get good with DDD. After that, i just am gonna check which 1 plays more fun and pick that character up.

 

[Smudge]

I'm still trying to decide on an Alt at the moment. But i've not really faced any of D3s true bad match-ups as of yet (Not been to a Brawl tournament so far and my mates all main CG-able characters)

Which of the advised characters is the quickest to pick up to a decent standard, my first tournaments next Sunday and I don't want to go in half-arsed.

Any ideas? Anyone?

 

[Gates]

Any ideas? Anyone?

Metaknight is the most obvious answer. He takes very little time to learn how to play and has few, if any, bad matchups.

Marth is also a pretty good sub who doesn't take THAT long to learn.

 

[|RK|]

Trivia:

Did you know that the Dreamland Three all cover each others weaknesses really well?

 

[T3h Albino]

Trivia:

Did you know that the Dreamland Three all cover each others weaknesses really well?

thats why i main D3,Kirby,and MK
=p

 

[sMexy-Blu]

thats why i main D3,Kirby,and MK
=p

The homosexual trio lolololol

 

[Smudge]

Looks like i'll pick up MetaKnight for now, and the Kirby at some other time.

Cheers guys.

 

[Vayseth]

Metaknight is the best secondary to anyone in this game for multiple reasons. For me though, I'd go G+W over any of them because G+W is great in singles AND teams. He's a good teams secondary to have if anything else.