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Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

Darkmoone1

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I'm honestly not too sure why people are saying Link has a projectile advantage over Cloud when Cloud's neutral B invalidates all of Link's projectiles since they cancel each other out(And I think Clouds neutral B comes out slightly faster, but I'm no expert on the frame subject.).

You can say the arrows can out do Clouds projectile and charging his limit since they have the range, but all Cloud has to do is gain a small amount of stage ground and Cloud's projectile can hit Link while he's charging. Cloud can then charge in between every exchange and once he's fully charged he gets the speed advantage he needs to close his distance.

Like a lot of fights this is a patient one for Cloud, but as an early prediction I really don't believe Link has any sort of strong advantage on this matchup.
 
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Hanku Hirru

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So, after a slew of FG matches against a damn good Roy, I definitely think Cloud has the advantage, and I'd assert that Roy is the best swordsman in the game.

Cloud just has way too many options to wall out Roy (Nair, BB, Bair to name a few). The Roy I fought had a hard time getting close enough to for grabs and he gets insane mileage off his grabs. Roy does most of his damage up close, but if he can't get close, he really struggles.
 

TTTTTsd

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So, after a slew of FG matches against a damn good Roy, I definitely think Cloud has the advantage, and I'd assert that Roy is the best swordsman in the game.

Cloud just has way too many options to wall out Roy (Nair, BB, Bair to name a few). The Roy I fought had a hard time getting close enough to for grabs and he gets insane mileage off his grabs. Roy does most of his damage up close, but if he can't get close, he really struggles.
Cloud is just Roy's kill potential tied behind Limit and a MUCH better neutral. I just can't see a reason to pick Roy anymore haha. Cloud just kinda kills early like he does off of hard reads but also has better options virtually any other time and it's like....yup.
 

Smooth Criminal

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I honestly thought that Ike was the best swordsman overall, but I guess I haven't seen much Roy play.

I've played...maybe a couple of solid ones offline with Dedede? Something like that.

Smooth Criminal
 
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Hanku Hirru

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Smooth Criminal Smooth Criminal : I'm torn between Ike and Roy being the best overall swordsman. Ike is much slower, but he has some of the best defensive options/punishes in the game. A good Ike will be able to properly space out his opponents with his tilts and aerials; rarely us in any of his smashes unless it's a guaranteed hard read. If you're at kill percent, you're going to get Bair'd so hard.

Roy has speed and a **** ton of power, but he lacks range. He's always forced to approach and in certain match ups (i.e Cloud, Ike, or any character with a solid projectile like Triple D) he's effectively walled out. Roy is great and he's a lot of fun, but you know he's always going to approach -- he's predictable.

**** it -- Ike is the best overall swordsman. He gets a lot of mileage off his grabs (his pivot grab range is silly) his tilts are basically smash attacks, and he's got great anti-aerial options to name a few of Ike's positives.

Cloud is great and I'm going to continue to play him, but Ike is one of his toughest match ups.
 
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Aetheri

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I'm honestly not too sure why people are saying Link has a projectile advantage over Cloud when Cloud's neutral B invalidates all of Link's projectiles since they cancel each other out(And I think Clouds neutral B comes out slightly faster, but I'm no expert on the frame subject.).

You can say the arrows can out do Clouds projectile and charging his limit since they have the range, but all Cloud has to do is gain a small amount of stage ground and Cloud's projectile can hit Link while he's charging. Cloud can then charge in between every exchange and once he's fully charged he gets the speed advantage he needs to close his distance.

Like a lot of fights this is a patient one for Cloud, but as an early prediction I really don't believe Link has any sort of strong advantage on this matchup.
Link has more than just arrows though, Link's arrows are best used for chip damage and possible gimping (like a worse version of Sheik's needles actually, can't hold the charge and not as spammable but can still provide long distance pressure and effective for gimping especially against characters that have poor horizontal recoveries, also I personally never charge arrows in neutral only if my opponent is off stage or in the air or on the far side of the stage)...both Link's bombs and his zair beats Cloud's Blade Beam...while Link's bombs are one of the few projectiles that blocks LB Blade Beam, Link's bomb's are generally a lot more versetile which is why I think Link has the better projectile advantage (If a player is spamming Blade Beams they need to stop playing Cloud tbh)...also Link's sheild makes it relatively easy for Link to approach since he can literally just walk up and grab (blocking with his sheild has less stun than perfect sheilding btw)

I'm not trying to say that one is better than the other, as of now Cloud is looking like the more solid character, Link has his issues, but so does Cloud...But when playing as both against the other the match literally felt like it went either way, but as of now I'm not calling anything conclusive because 1) I'm still learning how to use Cloud and 2) I'm still learning how to deal with his matchup as Link...As good as Cloud's on stage options are, his off stage options are where he struggles and Link can take advantage of that easily with his projectiles, both characters are combo food as well and can string eachother effectively for an almost guaranteed 0-50/60%, Link also has stronger grab options with his clawshot as well as dthrow and uthrow follow-ups and a more reliable kill throw (Link's uthrow kills most at 150-60% while Cloud's uthrow kill most over 200%)...

As someone who mains Link, and is planning on maining Cloud...I've noticed several similarities between the two...

Utilt-great for strings, combos into itself and uair for both characters...however Link's can combo into usmash...Utilt is one possible followup off of Link's dthrow; which Cloud has no guaranteed followups off of any of his throws...Cloud's may come out slightly quicker but Link's covers more area and can make for a good roll punish as well as being a better kill option...Link's is the better of the two because of it's uses both are used for juggling and combo's but Link's has more use for punishes and kills...

Dtilt-effective for punishing rolls and possible tech reads (though Cloud's can tech chase unlike Link's), both can knock opponent upwards and lead into follow ups such as a uair...can be used for edgeguarding, though Link's has a spike; There really isn't any competition that Cloud's is the better of the two since it is one of Cloud's best moves period...Megaman's dtilt was one of the best in the game, Cloud's is Megaman's dtilt on steroids (literally because it can kill at higher percents)

Uair-spammable move great for juggling, insane kill option for both as well as having lasting hitboxes which can punish air dodges, both have disjointed hitboxes which can punish moves like Bowser Bomb; Link's has better vertical coverage, whereas Cloud's is a more horizontal attack; Cloud's is the better of the two because it can combo into itself (which is god-like) and because of Cloud's aerial mobility it covers more space...FF uair is also god-like as well as having very little landing lag...
Dair-Pretty much function the same except Cloud's doesn't bounce...both spike at the tip on the initial downward thrust and have lasting hitboxes...I'm not certain if Cloud's able to follow up with a second hit if it spikes over the ground like Link's (tried testing it with no success, once again it doesn't bounce so it doesn't have that horizontal coverage after the first hit)...Cloud's is still the better of the two since it has A LOT more range in addition to his aerial mobility making it an actual better landing option, also can poke under certain stages for edgeguards more effectively...

Fsmash-Multi-hitting powerful, one of the best kill moves for either character...Cloud is commited to three hits, while Link can use either one or two hits...Link's first hit has a slight tipper effect, but if sourspotted combos into the second hit which is the stronger of the two, with Cloud's all three are guaranteed to follow up into eachother with the last hit being the stronger of the two...because Link is able to use just one hit it makes it a little tricky to punish on sheild since the second hit can punish a grab attempt, while Cloud can't use less than his three hits...the KB on Cloud's is DEVASTATING, while Link (assuming you hit both attacks) is actually also one of the strongest fsmashes as well...this is really tough to decide which is better since Cloud's has more bang for your buck but is very punishable if sheilded, while Link's can be a bit more versatile at times and can be effective for mind-games as well...

Dsmash-both hit on both sides, great for roll punishes and are great kill options for both...Cloud's has a sweeping effect, while Link can situationally do it with help of his boomerang...so Cloud's is more comparable to Toon Link's or Ganondorf's dsmashes...I think Link's comes out a bit quicker though...but Cloud's guarantees two hits if the first hit connects...

Zoning-both characters are effective at zoning out the opponent and creating their own walls, Link has his various items and Cloud has a 7ft long sword...Link's zair (IMO) is his best zoning tool, as it's not a projectile so it's unaffected by reflectors, is fairly safe on sheild, and can follow-up into grabs, fsmash, or into another zair, a great poking tool in general and comes out rather quickly and has no lag on landing, does two hits assuming opponent isn't right next to you, beats most projectiles, IMO best zair in the game (though ZSS's zair is pretty good as well, but I find it harder to hit with hers, Samus's is close but that's literally one of the only good things about her moveset) and of course makes for an effective recovery...Cloud's best zoning tool I'd say is his nair, has a ton of range, initial hit starts behind him and goes a full 360 around his body VERY safe on sheild giving his aerial mobility, I could be wrong but I think it starts on frame 1, if not than it's pretty dam close, effective pokes while RARing or SH LCCing and leads into all sorts of stuff such as utilts and fmashes, like Link's zair it has almost no end lag on landing...while I do love Link's zair as it is one of his best moves, Cloud's nair has overall better coverage all around his body as opposed to straight out in front of him, especially giving his horizontal movemet, it is harder to punish with sheild grabs as a results creates better sheild pressure...

Lousy Recoveries (lol)-both characters have pretty poor recoveries, and can be gimped quite easily...Cloud's regular Climhazzard doesn't snap to the ledge from below which makes him very vulnerable, while Spin attack can snap to the edge but can make for better added pressure...both characters can use their projectiles to aid in their recovery as Link's can distrupt opponents as they attempt to edge guard as well as his bomb's giving him essentially an extra jump...while Blade Beam gives Cloud a slight horizonatal boost...alternatively Cloud's LB give his Climhazzard a huge boost, while Link's Zair is overall a much better option for recovering; both are much harder to punish as well...however LB CH is more situational whereas Link can use his zair any time (as long as he hasn't used it three times already without touching the stage)...Link's recovery is clearly the better of the two, Link's Spin Attack can also beat out a lot of edge guard attempts since it has more horizontal range and catch enemies off guard if used a bit earlier, LB CH is too situational assuming the player was even able to charge at all, even still it uses up his Limit Charge at that moment and is generally not the ideal option for the Cloud player
 

JesseMcCloud

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Cloud is great and I'm going to continue to play him, but Ike is one of his toughest match ups.
See, this is one area I'm not sure I agree with. Sure, Ike's strong, but he's incredibly slow.
Cloud's speed and mobility make the matchup look like Ganondorf vs. Falcon. Then you throw in a projectile? Psh.
 
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Hanku Hirru

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See, this is one area I'm not sure I agree with. Sure, Ike's strong, but he's incredibly slow.
Cloud's speed and mobility make the matchup look like Ganondorf vs. Falcon. Then you throw in a projectile? Psh.
Cloud's mobility gives him a slight edge on stage, but Ike easily wall him out with aerials and tilts. Ike makes Cloud's life hell by his ample edge guarding options, as well.

He can camp the ledge and counter a non-ledge snapped Climhazzard, he can walk off Bair for a stage spike, D-tilt into Fair, Bair or Uair (D-tilt vertically pops your opponent off the ledge just enough for a SH aerial punish and good luck reacting to it as Ike's aerials are fast and have stupid range), or hit him with Eruption if he tries to recover low. Off stage, Ike trounces Cloud and that is arguably Cloud's biggesy weakness is being off stage. One good Fair or Bair at mid to high percents and it's curtains for Cloud unless he has LB.

And, I'm fairly certain Ike's F-tilt can clank/kill vanilla BB. I'll test this, but would not be surprised if it's true -- Ike's F-tilt can kill most projectiles.
 
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Smooth Criminal

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Speed =/= everything. Trust me. It's all about the rest of your options, and Ike just so happens to have a few that poke holes in Cloud's game. Hanku Hirru Hanku Hirru summed Ike up well enough in that regard, I think.

Btw: Vanilla BB gets beat out by everything, even windboxes, so stuff like Ike's jabs can stuff it. LB BB, however, has transcendent priority, meaning it will coast through most other projectiles/things. Not unstoppable even with LB since you can evade, but it's not something Ike wants to get hit by, either. Not even shielding. That just allows Cloud to approach and mix up, providing he's in range to do it.

Smooth Criminal
 
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Tri Knight

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That moment when you're way too tired to be playing and trying to grab the ledge from below with Braver... *facepalms for days*
 

stingers

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I played all cloud at a tourney today, definitely did well, good MU knowledge / overall play in here for those that want to take a look

http://www.twitch.tv/smash_it_again/v/30815446?t=30m28s - round 3 vs Uncle (:4bowser: / :4wario:)
http://www.twitch.tv/smash_it_again/v/30815446?t=96m53s - winners semis vs Dandy (:4duckhunt:) rank #3 in NC
http://www.twitch.tv/smash_it_again/v/30815446?t=156m25s - winners finals vs Kai (:4sonic:) rank #1 in NC
http://www.twitch.tv/smash_it_again/v/30815446?t=170m00s - losers finals vs Killanator (:4pacman:) rank #8 in NC
http://www.twitch.tv/smash_it_again/v/30815446?t=183m33s - grand finals vs Kai (:4sonic:)
 

Login_Sinker

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Thoughts on Cloud vs Sonic? Seems like it's in Cloud's favor. I mentioned earlier that Cloud is great at anti-camp, and Sonic isn't so good at approaching. Forcing aggression out of him by camping with Limit Charge seems to be the optimal way to go. I watched stingers stingers GFs set with Kai, and I think the issue was that he kept trying to chase Sonic down too much, which kept getting him punished. We want to be very patient and camp him back. If we do this, I think we win against Sonic.
 

Tri Knight

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So they released a picture that says FF15 will have an announcement January on technical and gameplay changes... hopefully release date? If you look at the picture in the background you can see a slightly new UI. Looks like you can actually choose one of four weapons you wanna attack with mid battle as well. Hopefully that's the way they're going. Wasn't a fan of the demo's combat methods.

However, here's the pic. Look closely and you could see some differences in the UI that suggests a different direction in combat.
 
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Gimmick

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You know what I find weird? The summons on Midgard. Specifically Leviathan and Bahamut ZERO. Basically you're summoning a water snake that floods the city and a space dragon that blast a beam through the city.... Said city is full of people... Ergo, you basically kill thousands of people via flooding or incineration via space laser by summoning either...
 

Tino

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Looks more like an industrial manufacturing district than a city if you ask me. No city lights or anything suggesting as such.
 

SSJ X Cloud Strife

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So they released a picture that says FF15 will have an announcement January on technical and gameplay changes... hopefully release date? If you look at the picture in the background you can see a slightly new UI. Looks like you can actually choose one of four weapons you wanna attack with mid battle as well. Hopefully that's the way they're going. Wasn't a fan of the demo's combat methods.

However, here's the pic. Look closely and you could see some differences in the UI that suggests a different direction in combat.
I still have hope that this game is gonna turn out to be much better than the initial demo represented. Even though it's been in developmental hell for so long.


Looks more like an industrial manufacturing district than a city if you ask me. No city lights or anything suggesting as such.
If you're talking about Midgar, then yeah, there's no city lights cause most of the city folks are living under the sector plates.
 
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~Skelly~

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I still have hope that this game is gonna turn out to be much better than the initial demo represented. Even though it's been in developmental hell for so long.
The remake was in development hell? I didn't even know they were making the remake this whole time. I only learned of the FF7 remake confirmation just last year. I heard only rumors of there being one during the years prior.
 
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Tino

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I've only heard about the remake not long after Cloud was revealed. Since then, I've been wanting to get a PS4 so that I could play it when it comes out. Plan to get that console after I file my tax returns.
 
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shinhed-echi

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You know... I finally figured out why Omnislash seemed a bit off to me.
Today, it hit me.

9999 > 9999 > 9999 > 9999 > 9999 > 9999 > 9999 > 9999 > 9999

Although... Would have been amazing if it took your opponent to 999% automatically. XD
 

Tri Knight

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The remake was in development hell? I didn't even know they were making the remake this whole time. I only learned of the FF7 remake confirmation just last year. I heard only rumors of there being one during the years prior.
Yeah FF15.

Around 10 years of developing this game means that there's a LOT of work put into it. But supposedly, Fallout 4 had a lot of work put into it too and it's extremely lacking in anything that made the old games great. Hopefully this isn't the same with FF15. The only thing I didn't like about the demo was the combat system, and I'm pretty sure they changed it again... Hopefully allowing us to switch weapons on the fly instead of preset attacks. But hey, whatever they decide I guess.

All I know is Numara has praised this game and even said that besides Sora, Noctis is his favorite creation. Even the world itself seems to be one of the greatest blends of fantasy and reality. They've even said that FF15's antagonist tops the likes of Sephiroth and Kefka! So I'm expecting a great story and a great atmosphere. And hopefully, great combat.

To be honest I'm hoping the game beats FF7. I really want it to.
 
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Tino

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Would've been better if they were being more specific with what game they were talking about...
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/73017398/839638290
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/73017398/839639658

Here's an interesting read for you all. Apparently, both Bayonetta and Cloud were the ballot winners.
The series with the highest amount of votes was Final Fantasy and Cloud was the most popular choice, which is why his symbol is "FF" rather than the meteor from FF7. There was also a glitch with the shield stun and Cloud's Cross Slash, which was why the changes in shield stun took place.

I'm honestly glad this happened. Cloud is not only one of the most fun characters I've played, but he fits so naturally to me. His play style is that of a character that I never knew I wanted.
 

Tri Knight

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So maybe this means we actually might get another FF character then... unless they're done with DLC now. Im not sure.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
So maybe this means we actually might get another FF character then... unless they're done with DLC now. Im not sure.
I think that they are done with DLC... Bayonetta's video was said to be the last one according to Sakurai.

I think that there is a window for another FF character in the future; I won't deem that to be impossible.
 

Tino

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If there's ever gonna be another Final Fantasy character for the next Smash game, then I will welcome him/her with open arms.
 

Tri Knight

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Agreed! The more FF, the better. Besides it's recent trilogy FF is probably my favorite series ever. I've played literally every single one of them except the sequels to FF13 because I just hated that one so much.

If they wanna represent FF anymore it's gotta be WoL though... he looks like he'd fit in a smash game.
 

Jae

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Gotta love how DL Cloud's taunts are. They're not overly obnoxious like most of the cast
 

SonicvMario

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If we get another FF rep I'd say it'd probably be Noctis since FF15 will probably be the most recent FF by then and SE will want to advertise it.
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Gotta love how DL Cloud's taunts are. They're not overly obnoxious like most of the cast
Agreed. It goes well with his character~
Also I really like your signature. Who made it? I want something similar but with my boy Inaho.
 

Tito Maas

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http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/73017398/839638290
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/73017398/839639658

Here's an interesting read for you all. Apparently, both Bayonetta and Cloud were the ballot winners.
The series with the highest amount of votes was Final Fantasy and Cloud was the most popular choice, which is why his symbol is "FF" rather than the meteor from FF7. There was also a glitch with the shield stun and Cloud's Cross Slash, which was why the changes in shield stun took place.

I'm honestly glad this happened. Cloud is not only one of the most fun characters I've played, but he fits so naturally to me. His play style is that of a character that I never knew I wanted.
This is actually super-interesting stuff, especially the part about the shield stun being changed for Cross-Slash. Who is the guy posting, though? Is he a Nintendo rep?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
This is actually super-interesting stuff, especially the part about the shield stun being changed for Cross-Slash. Who is the guy posting, though? Is he a Nintendo rep?
He's apparently a marketing specialist that worked on Smash 4 and thus got access to a bunch of data. He is using a friend's account to protect his identity.

I think this is pretty plausible, but still take it with a grain of salt. Though, a lot of this does make sense.
 

roymustang1990-

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I don't know.It's hard to believe shield stun mechanics were changed universally for only one character's special move. It's also harder to believe that cloud was the ballot winner after all since Nintendo never officially stated it themselves. :/

Regardless,still a great read. Thanks for sharing.
 
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