Social 7th Heaven - Cloud Social Thread

[Bladeviper]

I'm probably the only soul here that doesn't really care all that much for story in a fighting (PLATFORMER HYBRID) game. I'm here to kick *** and chew bubblegum, right? That's what it's all about, when you get down to it. I kinda thought Subspace Emissary was kinda half-baked to begin with, especially taking the silent movie route to characterize and to help further the plot. Other fighting games like Blazblue and Guilty Gear at least genuinely attempt to immerse you in their world with storytelling and lore on top of all the fighting (which, of course, isn't a testament to their quality, mind you); Subspace relied on familiar faces and (I guess) their attributed charisma without much depth otherwise. But, I guess I'm just not fond of the kinda medium it strove for to convey its story.

(The mode itself, well, it was kinda...lackluster. A lot of it really, really felt like I was playing through a generic Kirby game with generic enemies, rather than this epic standalone thing that blended many of our beloved franchises together. But I digress.)

That said, I don't really mind modes like that. It's good padding for a game, imo. Same with other single player modes. I would have loved a Smash Run equivalent on the Wii U version, complete with online AND local multiplayer. I spent a considerable amount of time playing that mode on the 3DS version. It was a lot of fun.

Smooth Criminal

man at this point I dont even want a story in a fighting game unless it is on par with the mk stuff as that is the way to handle a story in a 1v1 game imo

 

[Aetheri]

But there is something we have to keep in mind. We can talk about how we are all gonna main Cloud and how top tier until our mouths fall off, but lets be honest here, who here is really gonna stick with Cloud once he is released?

I've wanted Cloud in this game for a while now...And so far he looks pretty damn awesome...I use both Roy and Ike rather frequently and have had them both as secondaries in their previous Smash iterations, so I'm already somewhat accustomed to using a similar playstyle in a way...

The way it's looking now my top three mains are as shown in my signature...I've been looking for a solid number three for a while now and it seems I've found him!

 

[Hanku Hirru]

JesseMcCloud

I live in PMT.

So, we can easily coordinate a time.

 

[RebelXII]

I've wanted Cloud in this game for a while now...And so far he looks pretty damn awesome...I use both Roy and Ike rather frequently and have had them both as secondaries in their previous Smash iterations, so I'm already somewhat accustomed to using a similar playstyle in a way...

The way it's looking now my top three mains are as shown in my signature...I've been looking for a solid number three for a while now and it seems I've found him!

@Tri Knight and Aetheri is Link good? I need a solid 3 as well and I'm looking for a Projectile fighter. From what I'm seeing, there are a lot of Link mains here. More then I expected.

I may try to go as well.

 

[Aetheri]

@Tri Knight and Aetheri is Link good? I need a solid 3 as well and I'm looking for a Projectile fighter. From what I'm seeing, there are a lot of Link mains here. More then I expected.

I may try to go as well.

He's good but not great...He's a Top 25 possibly Top 20 character, but he does struggle with most high tier match-ups due to his frame-data...I do feel that he does indeed have the tools to succeed as he can provide lots of pressure with his projectiles (and his zair which is god-like imo) and can kill quite easily since half of his moves can KO...This is the best Link iteration Smash has ever had so if you want to pick him up now is the time...

If you want to learn more tech about Link, check out Izaw's Art of Link videos, he's arguably the best Link player out there...and his video tutorials actually cover quite a bit of what Link can do on an advanced level...

Link is one of those characters that if you decide to main him, you'll need to have a strong secondary to go with him...example Izaw also mains Sheik...

But for the love of God DON'T be a For Glory Link...Link gets a bad enough wrap to begin with...

 

[Tito Maas]

Cloud had better be a heavy. If Link and Ryu and Yoshi can be heavies, there's no reason why Cloud shouldn't be.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Cloud had better be a heavy. If Link and Ryu and Yoshi can be heavies, there's no reason why Cloud shouldn't be.

Snake was also the third heaviest in Brawl

But seriously, I see him somewhere between Lucario and Greninja in terms of weight.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Snake was also the third heaviest in Brawl

But seriously, I see him somewhere between Lucario and Greninja in terms of weight.

That light, huh? Well, at least he'll be heavier than Mewtwo.

 

[Tito Maas]

Snake was also the third heaviest in Brawl

But seriously, I see him somewhere between Lucario and Greninja in terms of weight.

He was?

Well then nah, that would be completely unacceptable for him to be even that light. Please don't **** us over, Sakurai.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Guys, this is just my theory.

He could be heavier than what I said.

And I hope to be wrong and that he happens to be heavier that my estimation...

 

[Aetheri]

Characters like Snake and Link are fairly heavy because of the equipment they are carrying...

Cloud has a bigass sword, remember...I can see him being at least heavier than Ike...I can't see him being comparable to Greninja as he is pretty damn light...Lucario is somewhere around the middle I believe? Anyway I can see Cloud being pretty heavy, especially since some of his movement animations do show some weight to his sword...Also take into account his recovery which doesn't seem like the greatest which could be attributed to his weight, other than Dedede heavy characters don't really have very good recoveries since they are harder to send flying...

Isn't Cloud going to be a heavy-type character in Dissidia?

 

[Tito Maas]

Guys, this is just my theory.

He could be heavier than what I said.

And I hope to be wrong and that he happens to be heavier that my estimation...

I mean, we understand that part, but that's a theory that can definitely be questioned.

Characters like Snake and Link are fairly heavy because of the equipment they are carrying...

Cloud has a bigass sword, remember...I can see him being at least heavier than Ike...I can't see him being comparable to Greninja as he is pretty damn light...Lucario is somewhere around the middle I believe? Anyway I can see Cloud being pretty heavy, especially since some of his movement animations do show some weight to his sword...

Isn't Cloud going to be a heavy-type character in Dissidia?

The only thing that could keep Cloud from being a heavy is if they look at his frame and decide he's not bulky enough a person to be considered heavy, but yeah, they should still consider the blade whih should make him a heavy in itself, being the largest weapon in the game and all. Characters have been given super heavy stats for less before... like Snake, Wario, Yoshi.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Well, Mewtwo is 260+ lbs. if I remember correctly, and he's what, third lightest in the game? EDIT: 2nd lightest.
I predict that Cloud won't be super heavy, but hopefully no lighter than Ike.
Watching his trailer, it doesn't look like he'll be a fast-faller.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Darn it! I forgot to count the sword when thinking of his weight!

But heavier than Ike? I don't know.

The Buster Sword's definitely heavier than Ragnell(?), but Cloud doesn't look as buffed as Ike does either.

 

[Aetheri]

I mean, we understand that part, but that's a theory that can definitely be questioned.


The only thing that could keep Cloud from being a heavy is if they look at his frame and decide he's not bulky enough a person to be considered heavy, but yeah, they should still consider the blade whih should make him a heavy in itself, being the largest weapon in the game and all. Characters have been given super heavy stats for less before... like Snake, Wario, Yoshi.

Well Snake is lugging around rocket launchers and explosives, Wario is fat.......and Yoshi is a dinosaur so it does make sense...either way there's no reason they won't take his sword into consideration since it is...y'know about the same frikkin size that he is...Mewtwo was given the whole 'psychic abilities/glass cannon' so his lightweight at least has basis...but we all know that unless for some reason Cloud's sword is made of styrofoam or something that there really isn't any feasible reason to make him a lightweight...

 

[Tito Maas]

Well, Mewtwo is 260+ lbs. if I remember correctly, and he's what, third lightest in the game?
I predict a Cloud won't be super heavy, but hopefully no lighter than Ike.
Watching his trailer, it doesn't look like he'll be a fast-faller.

Well let's just be honest, Mewtwo was a completely botched attempt at "balance", especially when it comes to his weight.

And yeah, all I need is for Cloud to be around Ike and Captain Falcon weight.

Well Snake is lugging around rocket launchers and explosives, Wario is fat.......and Yoshi is a dinosaur so it does make sense...either way there's no reason they won't take his sword into consideration since it is...y'know about the same frikkin size that he is...Mewtwo was given the whole 'psychic abilities/glass cannon' so his lightweight at least has basis...but we all know that unless for some reason Cloud's sword is made of styrofoam or something that there really isn't any feasible reason to make him a lightweight...

It's funny how Mewtwo is the second-lightest character in the game because "psychic", meanwhile the game clearly considers Ness to be more proficient at psychic abilities (if his back throw killing at 90% is representative of his psychic abilities...) and he's much heavier. What a failed attempt at balance. Let us pray nothing like that ever happens again.

 

[8-peacock-8]

It's funny how Mewtwo is the second-lightest character in the game because "psychic", meanwhile the game clearly considers Ness to be more proficient at psychic abilities (if his back throw killing at 90% is representative of his psychic abilities...) and he's much heavier. What a failed attempt at balance. Let us pray nothing like that ever happens again.

I guess it's for Ness having a different style of psychic powers? Seeing as he's not the bend spoons type of psychic but rather the set the room on fire with his mind type. lol

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Tbh, I feel that Mewtwo's greatest weakness is his lack of a combo game thanks to his janky second jump. If he had a means to reliably land his fair, he'd be a lot better.
But yeah, being somewhere between Falcon and Ike would be perfect for Cloud, both from a balance and conceptual perspective.

 

[Aetheri]

Well let's just be honest, Mewtwo was a completely botched attempt at "balance", especially when it comes to his weight.

And yeah, all I need is for Cloud to be around Ike and Captain Falcon weight.


It's funny how Mewtwo is the second-lightest character in the game because "psychic", meanwhile the game clearly considers Ness to be more proficient at psychic abilities (if his back throw killing at 90% is representative of his psychic abilities...) and he's much heavier. What a failed attempt at balance. Let us pray nothing like that ever happens again.

Well I never said that Mewtwo's lightweight was a good idea...just that there is some basis...besides Smash isn't really following canon weight since ZSS should actually weigh more than most of the cast being around 200 lbs without her suit...and Olimar would likely be the lightest since he's the size of a bottlecap...as I said though I highly doubt Cloud will be a lightweight simply because of the Buster Sword...

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Olimar would likely be the lightest since he's the size of a bottlecap

Game & Watch is 2-D and he's heavier than Mewtwo...

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

The only logical reason that Mewtwo is so light is because it's Smash's "glass cannon"

It's got the moves to kill early, but if it were heavy, it wouldn't really be "balanced" as it would end up being difficult to knock it off the stage.

Also, maybe it just doesn't care about physics and has it own gravitational effect, making it feel lighter as a result? (That one's kind of a stretch though)

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Miiverse stage is banned now

 

[praline]

The only logical reason that Mewtwo is so light is because it's Smash's "glass cannon"

It's got the moves to kill early, but if it were heavy, it wouldn't really be "balanced" as it would end up being difficult to knock it off the stage.

Also, maybe it just doesn't care about physics and has it own gravitational effect, making it feel lighter as a result? (That one's kind of a stretch though)

I just wish it was a bit heavier.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Miiverse stage is banned now

I'm surprised no one did that for Lucas...

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Mewtwo either needs more weight or more power. Preferably both

 

[praline]

Well let's just be honest, Mewtwo was a completely botched attempt at "balance", especially when it comes to his weight.

And yeah, all I need is for Cloud to be around Ike and Captain Falcon weight.


It's funny how Mewtwo is the second-lightest character in the game because "psychic", meanwhile the game clearly considers Ness to be more proficient at psychic abilities (if his back throw killing at 90% is representative of his psychic abilities...) and he's much heavier. What a failed attempt at balance. Let us pray nothing like that ever happens again.

I think Cloud will be around Link's weight.

 

[Ffamran]

I guess it's for Ness having a different style of psychic powers? Seeing as he's not the bend spoons type of psychic but rather the set the room on fire with his mind type. lol

Ness, Lucas, and Toon Link are heavier than Fox, Falco, Little Mac, Sheik, Zelda, Palutena, Marth, Lucina, and Peach. They are also 1 unit lighter than Roy. Little kids are heavier than and almost heavy as grown *** people some who wear armor, are muscular, wear heavy dresses, carry heavy equipment, or have prosthetic, metal legs. Toon Link you could justify since he carries stuff like Link and Snake, but hey, what about hammerspace making that moot since Snake carried a freaking railgun like it was nothing when it wasn't equipped? Toon Link doesn't even wear chainmail or body armor like Link and Snake!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Since when do video games have logic?

 

[meleebrawler]

Tbh, I feel that Mewtwo's greatest weakness is his lack of a combo game thanks to his janky second jump. If he had a means to reliably land his fair, he'd be a lot better.

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwos-big-book-o-combos-8-characters-done.413911/

Dtilt to fair is like the first combo anybody trying Mewtwo learns.

Ness and Lucas have very similar jumps, do their combo games suck too?

Mewtwo either needs more weight or more power. Preferably both

Because having the strongest normal chargeable projectile and vertical killing throw isn't enough power.

He is not a completely screwed up character. He has his gameplan and it works. He just suffers a bit too much for not implementing it successfully is all.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwos-big-book-o-combos-8-characters-done.413911/

Dtilt to fair is like the first combo anybody trying Mewtwo learns.

Ness and Lucas have very similar jumps, do their combo games suck too?


Because having the strongest normal chargeable projectile and vertical killing throw isn't enough power.

He is not a completely screwed up character. He has his gameplan and it works. He just suffers a bit too much for not implementing it successfully is all.

First of all, Charizard has the best killing U-throw, second, I enjoy playing as Mewtwo, third, Mewtwo's a high risk and decent reward character tbh, make most of his other moves better, and boom, we're good to go

 

[meleebrawler]

First of all, Charizard has the best killing U-throw, second, I enjoy playing as Mewtwo, third, Mewtwo's a high risk and decent reward character tbh, make most of his other moves better, and boom, we're good to go

No no no Zard does not. Good DI neuters it badly, at which point even Lucas's is better.

His power isn't readily apparent because he's a defensive character at heart. He's not really meant to mount an offensive most of the time, instead using the threat of a super-powerful projectile and a deterring reflector to goad enemies into coming after him, then deflecting their assaults with proper spacing. And with Mewtwo's higher than average DPH they add up faster than you might think.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

No no no Zard does not. Good DI neuters it badly, at which point even Lucas's is better.

His power isn't readily apparent because he's a defensive character at heart. He's not really meant to mount an offensive most of the time, instead using the threat of a super-powerful projectile and a deterring reflector to goad enemies into coming after him, then deflecting their assaults with proper spacing. And with Mewtwo's higher than average DPH they add up faster than you might think.

Lucas' only throw that isn't a killthrow is Dthrow though.

My argument wasn't Mewtwo needs to be more aggressive, but have a bit more oomph, he's pretty laggy, but the power of his moves aren't always enough to jutify the lag imo

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Tbh, I feel that Mewtwo's greatest weakness is his lack of a combo game thanks to his janky second jump. If he had a means to reliably land his fair, he'd be a lot better.

Mewtwo gets a lot out of his floaty second jump, perhaps as much as the PK Kids get out of theirs (areas like recovery and setups). His combo game from that is also fine, 'cause he can get good stuff off of most of his hit confirms (fair strings are legit things, as well as trapping/baiting stuff like airdodges). No, where Mewtwo struggles is skewed risk/reward in just about every facet of his game (neutral/footsies, zoning). He gets dividends from hits, but getting hit hurts him a helluva lot more in the long run. It's hard for Mewtwo keep an advantage thanks to his lightweight, akwardly big frame. Not to mention his normals are notably borked as well, especially the tail-centric ones, with super inconsistent hitboxes on par with some of Samus' stuff. He definitely got the short end of the dev's stick there.

I do believe that if a Mewtwo plays an efficient (but lame) counteroffensive game, he could probably mitigate some of his weaknesses...but a lot of the Mewtwos I see would rather focus on mobility and other offensive strats.

Just IMO, of course.

Smooth Criminal

 

[JesseMcCloud]

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwos-big-book-o-combos-8-characters-done.413911/

Dtilt to fair is like the first combo anybody trying Mewtwo learns.

Ness and Lucas have very similar jumps, do their combo games suck too?


Because having the strongest normal chargeable projectile and vertical killing throw isn't enough power.

He is not a completely screwed up character. He has his gameplan and it works. He just suffers a bit too much for not implementing it successfully is all.

Woah, man, calm down. All I meant is he doesn't have the versatility of the higher-tier characters like Sheik. Apologies.

 

[meleebrawler]

Mewtwo gets a lot out of his floaty second jump, perhaps as much as the PK Kids get out of theirs (areas like recovery and setups). His combo game from that is also fine, 'cause he can get good stuff off of most of his hit confirms (fair strings are legit things, as well as trapping/baiting stuff like airdodges). No, where Mewtwo struggles is skewed risk/reward in just about every facet of his game (neutral/footsies, zoning). He gets dividends from hits, but getting hit hurts him a helluva lot more in the long run. It's hard for Mewtwo keep an advantage thanks to his lightweight, akwardly big frame. Not to mention his normals are notably borked as well, especially the tail-centric ones, with super inconsistent hitboxes on par with some of Samus' stuff. He definitely got the short end of the dev's stick.

I do believe that if a Mewtwo plays an efficient (but lame) counteroffensive game, he could probably mitigate some of his weaknesses...but a lot of the Mewtwos I see would rather focus on mobility and other offensive strats.

Just IMO, of course.

Smooth Criminal

Yeah, well Dedede's fair and bair look like they should hit a larger area than they do but that doesn't change the fact that they're still giant disjointed moves people don't really wanna mess with.

Mewtwo's hitbox issues are greatly exaggerrated. People don't regularly fall out of his usmash like with Samus's nor does his jab fail to link properly (though you can't delay at all on fastfallers if going for the multihit).

As for the main ones that get brought up a lot, bair starts up too slow to be reliable against ground opponents, but it's range is fantastic in the air (almost going directly above Mewtwo) making it great air-to-air, anti-air and prime edgeguarding material (I can't count how many stage spikes I've gotten with it). Uair may not hit directly in front or behind but it still hits a very wide disjointed arc making it one of his safest juggle tools, plus it can set up landing traps or even start combos on tall targets with practice. Utilt is the only offender I can agree with, in that it would be nice to have a DK-style coverage move.

I don't really understand why most Mewtwo focus so much on the damage race when playing him. Maybe it's because his combo game is just good enough, combined with the supposed pressure of trying to take out the opponent before they can do the same that causes this, but Mewtwo really doesn't have to take huge risks to do his damage. And if the opponent tries to lame him back, well a charged shadow ball and reflector beg to disagree.

 

[Aetheri]

No no no Zard does not. Good DI neuters it badly, at which point even Lucas's is better.

His power isn't readily apparent because he's a defensive character at heart. He's not really meant to mount an offensive most of the time, instead using the threat of a super-powerful projectile and a deterring reflector to goad enemies into coming after him, then deflecting their assaults with proper spacing. And with Mewtwo's higher than average DPH they add up faster than you might think.

Good DI neuters any attack badly, but Charizard's uthrow has greater knockback than Mewtwo's but only just...while ROB is close behind both of them...

 

[Smooth Criminal]

meleebrawler

I know you were trying to prove a point with your first paragraph, but actually, D3's fair and bair do cover as wide an area as the hitbox implies (arguably moreso, in bair's case), on top of their innate disjointed-ness.

The rest of what you're saying, though, you're right. For the most part. I don't think Samus is a terribad character despite her hitbox issues, for example, because the rest of her kit makes up for it. Mewtwo I hold in a similar esteem. Neither of them are bottom tier in my eyes.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Gene]

A friend and I were talking and we thought what if he included Sub Zero to represent gaming controversy? lol

Sign me up. I seriously want an MK character in Smash Bros. Ed Boon needs to approach this man Sakurai some day before Smash 5 is announced because I think we can all agree that an MK character would never win a Smash Ballot.

Spoiler: Long MK Rant

Me, you and your friend might be the very small minority that want this to happen. Gen 1 Mortal Kombat will pretty much be represented. Mortal Kombat certainly has a legacy and stirred up a good ****storm from mainstream media in the 90's because of the gore, violence, and fatalities were too real, as well as the kiddies being interested in the game. Majority of the MK games released on Nintendo consoles so that's a plus. MK also introduced having a different control scheme and a button for blocking attacks which was different considering all of the fighting games people were playing in the 90's that didn't have this except Smash Bros.

Considering we've had Solid Snake in Smash Bros, which was from an M rated franchise involving war and murder then having an MK character in Smash Bros wouldn't be that out of place. Netherrealm Studios would most likely push Scorpion because Ed Boon loves him. The only problem is I don't see his spear move working in Smash Bros without it going into the character. Sakurai showcasing the names of Scorpion's moves also won't work out for Nintendo and Sakurai. I could see Sakurai going with either Raiden, Liu Kang or Sub-Zero because they have a more "friendly" character design (Scorpion can take off his face revealing his 2spooky skeleton head and breath fire on you).

The trailer would fit pretty well with the Smash universe because there are different Realms in MK. The beginning of the trailer could have the Smash Ball logo in the center with fire at the bottom. The logo starts to spin slowly and shows the dragon logo on the back. After the dragon logo you hear the Gong sound effect. Raiden, Liu Kang, or any other qualified MK character for smash could go through a portal (the one's from Subspace Emissary) and into Smash Bros challenging everyone to a fight. An MK character could even the Aggressor mechanic in smash bros, making them fight like Turbo mode in Project M while buffing their strength until the Aggressor meter runs out. Friendship would probably end up being mixed in a final smash. It seems appropriate and something Sakurai would do.

 

[JesseMcCloud]

Just my two cents, but the main reason I didn't want Snake in Smash is the fact that his series is entirely rated M.

 

[Bladeviper]

Just my two cents, but the main reason I didn't want Snake in Smash is the fact that his series is entirely rated M.

not everyone is m in fact there is an e rated mg game and the msx games would probably be e or t if rated today