KikoMePlease
Smash Journeyman
I'm ready to **** everyone in 626.
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626 / Pasadena Area Smash: Unleashing Your Inner Robert
- Thread starter baka4moé
- Start date
A3(PO4 3-)
Smash Apprentice
Kevin, I want to play you again sometime
Baka when you nair out of shield do you slide from X/Y to the A button or do you press up and then a? I tend to accidentally shield grab a lot (particularly against spacies) and really need to practice the timing against Falco shield pressure.
SUNG666
Smash Ace
X to A for sure! Shield grabbing means that you're doing it too early wait a split second longer then do X to A.
Shield pressuring is kinda like rock paper scissors...bunch of guessing except the one pressuring has a stronger rock paper and scissors
-Falco late aerial into shine = you can't do anything between aerial and shine, typically how they start shield pressure (unless they screw it up)
-Approaching laser into shine = same as above except with laser (can't do anything between laser and shine, another way they can start the pressure)
-Aerial shine into early aerial fade away = you can't do anything but they lose more pressuring however they can still keep some pressuring by doing like fade aerial into spaced bair / spaced jab (or both in some order) which are all out of range to be punishable by grab (wes likes to do this the spaced bair into turn around spaced jab)
-The same goes for aerial double shines you can't do anything in between aerial shine or the 2nd shine but they lose more pressuring however they can still do follow ups like aerial double shine waveland on the platform drop with a spaced aerial etc
-Even though they lose some pressuring falcos want to do aerial shine fast fade aerial or aerial double shine to condition you into shielding a little longer so the next time they can aerial shine grab which in case if they do = you can hard read and nair oos between the shine and grab
-If they want to commit to shield pressure and do shine dair/nair shine dair/nair = Nair oos between shine and dair/nair (I'm almost positive you cannot grab in between any of these)
A lot of things are just mixups on both sides but obviously Falco is on the advantage since he's the one pressuring you
Shield pressuring is kinda like rock paper scissors...bunch of guessing except the one pressuring has a stronger rock paper and scissors
-Falco late aerial into shine = you can't do anything between aerial and shine, typically how they start shield pressure (unless they screw it up)
-Approaching laser into shine = same as above except with laser (can't do anything between laser and shine, another way they can start the pressure)
-Aerial shine into early aerial fade away = you can't do anything but they lose more pressuring however they can still keep some pressuring by doing like fade aerial into spaced bair / spaced jab (or both in some order) which are all out of range to be punishable by grab (wes likes to do this the spaced bair into turn around spaced jab)
-The same goes for aerial double shines you can't do anything in between aerial shine or the 2nd shine but they lose more pressuring however they can still do follow ups like aerial double shine waveland on the platform drop with a spaced aerial etc
-Even though they lose some pressuring falcos want to do aerial shine fast fade aerial or aerial double shine to condition you into shielding a little longer so the next time they can aerial shine grab which in case if they do = you can hard read and nair oos between the shine and grab
-If they want to commit to shield pressure and do shine dair/nair shine dair/nair = Nair oos between shine and dair/nair (I'm almost positive you cannot grab in between any of these)
A lot of things are just mixups on both sides but obviously Falco is on the advantage since he's the one pressuring you
baka4moé
Smash Champion
i use Y to A. i understand ur problem cuz i do that too. ive been messing up less lately but it still happens someitmes, like spotdodging when im trying to fc bair oos. if u are shield grabbing, all that means is that you are pressing jump too early (as in, while ur still in sheildstun), so only the A button registers and u grab. u have to know how much sheild stun each of falcos aerials give to u and recognize if nair oos is a viable option (so, they cant shine u in time, or if u think theyre not gonna shine) depending on when their aerial actually hits ur shield
SUNG666
Smash Ace
Most punishable aerials on shield is if they're dropping through/running off a platform or some sort of full jump aerial basically if the aerial hits the top of your shield (sometimes you can also angle your shield up so they hit the top of the shield quicker giving you more time to retaliate oos) 2. If an aerial is not spaced correctly 3. I find that whenever I land behind someone after attacking their shield like approach nair land behind (even a pretty delayed nair) I can get FC Baired OOS before my up tilt can come out (I might be messing it up but it usually trades or bair comes out faster in which case I'll get D smashed as well)
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Ummm
You should be holding cstick up and then A peligro
Don't listen to these guys lol
You should be holding cstick up and then A peligro
Don't listen to these guys lol
baka4moé
Smash Champion
yea dont listen to me or sung listen to crimson
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I say do whatever you're most comfortable with. As Sung noted, accidentally shield-grabbing means you're simply inputting whatever jump command you like to use too early. This is solely a problem with timing, not your choice of inputs.
baka4moé
Smash Champion
^ I noted that....i think
anyway yea if u like y-a then just use that imo
anyway yea if u like y-a then just use that imo
SUNG666
Smash Ace
LOL
In theory holding C stick up then A is better BUT you don't EXACTLY know when you're going to jump so you might be late on pressing A. X/Y to A is more controlled imo
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Sung you can just mash A. You don't need to time the button press
SUNG666
Smash Ace
You're going to shield grab if you mash A since you might press A before you are actually airborne making it a JC grab
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
Mashing A is worse since it's less precise. Like, I can generally get an aerial out the frame I go airborne or the frame after that, but since I can't hit A 30 times per second, I'd be more likely to have the aerial be very delayed if I mashed A instead.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Sung, you shouldn't still be holding L..
Fly's point is definitely true though. The distance between cstick and A make the transition from jump to mash hard so getting a delayed aerial is common. That factor alone may make Y+A more practical, but strictly speaking, if your hands are fast enough, I'd say cstick+A is a more reliable method. I guess you could use z if the distance to A is really bothering you...you could accidentally JC grab with Z but tbh i dont think thats that big of a deal once you learn the timing.
I think Y+A's occassional shieldgrabs are a lot more harmful because you will likely compensate by doing nair OOS much later than you should...plus, I think having your right thumb at cstick when you are shielding is much more flexible. You have buffer roll, buffer sidestep, or buffer nair OOS all really close to each other, and you can choose between them really quickly as you go into shieldstun.
Fly's point is definitely true though. The distance between cstick and A make the transition from jump to mash hard so getting a delayed aerial is common. That factor alone may make Y+A more practical, but strictly speaking, if your hands are fast enough, I'd say cstick+A is a more reliable method. I guess you could use z if the distance to A is really bothering you...you could accidentally JC grab with Z but tbh i dont think thats that big of a deal once you learn the timing.
I think Y+A's occassional shieldgrabs are a lot more harmful because you will likely compensate by doing nair OOS much later than you should...plus, I think having your right thumb at cstick when you are shielding is much more flexible. You have buffer roll, buffer sidestep, or buffer nair OOS all really close to each other, and you can choose between them really quickly as you go into shieldstun.
SUNG666
Smash Ace
Have you even tried it, you have to be holding L in order to jump with C stick and you're going to have to react to their attack hold c stick, react to whenever you jump let go of C stick, let go of L and then press A...I don't know how C stick A is more reliable since there are many other things you would have to do in other situations like wavedash oos at the right timing, or like Baka said FC B air oos, shine oos... it's best if you know the hitstun timing on their attacks on your shield. It's like Fly said mashing A is less precise, like when you do drop zone knee with falcon on yoshis you don't mash jump and hope you live, you just time it. Exact same with sh d airing off of yoshis with falco you don't mash jump or you're going to die.
..And you had better be doin what I'm doin and practice while occasionally goin on smashboards
..And you had better be doin what I'm doin and practice while occasionally goin on smashboards
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
Yes sung, you hold L and Cstick. And then when you let go of Cstick to hit A, you also let go of L. Since you are no longer holding L, you should never get a JC grab.
If you are really worried about WD OOS, you can learn to do it with control stick or cstick. I find WD OOS super easy with cstick so I don't think thats much of a learning curve at all.
You'd still have to know the basic timing of the shield stun; thats how you know when to let go of Cstick and hit A/Z. The difference is that you insure your jump comes out immediately, which is pretty much what makes nairing oos so hard.
If you are really worried about WD OOS, you can learn to do it with control stick or cstick. I find WD OOS super easy with cstick so I don't think thats much of a learning curve at all.
You'd still have to know the basic timing of the shield stun; thats how you know when to let go of Cstick and hit A/Z. The difference is that you insure your jump comes out immediately, which is pretty much what makes nairing oos so hard.
TheCrimsonBlur
Smash Master
lol im at work. when i go home imma put on my smurfs-themed pajamas, order some chinese food, play my J-POP playlist at MAX volume, turn off all the lights, and...
probably watch some NBA games or somethin iunno.
SUNG666
Smash Ace
I've practiced fox so long today almost got short hopping down 100% and then tomorrow it'll be as if I just started today but a little better and grind it out again. I find that it's almost pointless playing if you aren't technically consistent cause you'll just be getting hit by things that shouldn't work, it'll be bad for you and your opponent since he'll be getting bad habits too. A lot of the time I feel like I'm screwing Dendy over cause he's punishing me a lot when I make a technical error and he tries to do the same punish against other people in tournament but it doesn't work at all, those punishes might work once every ten times but you only need one reason to make it all worth it (just like how Manatee always pounds back on the stage even if you punish it 5 / 6 times the one time it does work make it seem like it's worth doing all over again)
Lol it's all about that JPOP
Lol it's all about that JPOP
A3(PO4 3-)
Smash Apprentice
Sung I love you for that shield pressure post. Also, Jigglypuff is too hard, rest x3 ***** me.
Woah, lots of response. I know that ultimately it comes down to my preference and it's more about timing. Just thought I would ask anyway since I don't mind trying different inputs if others feel one way is easier. I actually had no idea about all this C-stick business and I think I'll probably give it a whirl since it sounds like it could be beneficial if you get it consistently.
I think a major road block to my game right now is technical inconsistency. I find practicing tech to be extremely boring, but in the last two months or so I've started to realize how important it is. I used to think that Smash was completely different from say Street Fighter, but they're quite similar. Top players are top players because they know what the options are, they avoid bad habits, and they have the tech to never drop combos or give up pressure without reason. The inconsistent punishes that Sung mentioned are huge. I FC Bair on shield > DSmash EVERY TIME even though it only pierces 1/5 times and I get punished the rest of the time (I feel like I'm a pretty unlucky Peach when it comes to pierces).
Anyway kind of rambling now. Thanks for the situational Falco breakdown Sung, I might copy paste that to the Peach boards to see what they think, but they all sound more or less correct to me. Falco Shield pressure is dumb.
I think a major road block to my game right now is technical inconsistency. I find practicing tech to be extremely boring, but in the last two months or so I've started to realize how important it is. I used to think that Smash was completely different from say Street Fighter, but they're quite similar. Top players are top players because they know what the options are, they avoid bad habits, and they have the tech to never drop combos or give up pressure without reason. The inconsistent punishes that Sung mentioned are huge. I FC Bair on shield > DSmash EVERY TIME even though it only pierces 1/5 times and I get punished the rest of the time (I feel like I'm a pretty unlucky Peach when it comes to pierces).
Anyway kind of rambling now. Thanks for the situational Falco breakdown Sung, I might copy paste that to the Peach boards to see what they think, but they all sound more or less correct to me. Falco Shield pressure is dumb.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
use Z imo
can't i roll?
see above. what about DIing the laser away and then doing whatever i want? particularly effective for marth. oh ya, marth can counter.
make sure you do it with mango/s2j spacing so it's not an obvious DC
get jacked weston
you really can't roll after the 1st shine? hmm. i wonder how shield DI affects all these things. ime there's never anything that simply can't be countered.
do you have a link to any tek info concerning shine grab? i used to think it was impossible to get out of -- when it first came out that was the scouting report -- but i've even rolled before the grab. i dunno how though; sometimes it's worked but most of the time it hasn't.
i love you sungqft
that's their problem for being results oriented and not studying the game
SUNG666
Smash Ace
There's a chance you can roll between delayed aerial into shine, approaching laser into shine (what I mean by this approaching delayed laser landing on your shield and then shining), and aerial double shine HOWEVER you have a few frames of vulnerability when you roll so you still might get hit ESPECIALLY the double shine because the shines come in such quick succession to each other (and falcos can time it so that it'll catch the vulnerability frames if you buffer a roll)
As for shine jc grab you can do pretty much anything between the shine and grab, buffering roll/spotdodge/shine oos/etc, shine jc grab is never completely guaranteed
In case someone doesn't know, you can buffer options oos by holding the C stick in a direction (up = jump, left/right = roll, down = spotdodge) you will be able to do any of these in the first frame you are able to do so (such as the first frame out of shield stun)
"I FC Bair on shield > DSmash EVERY TIME even though it only pierces 1/5 times and I get punished the rest of the time (I feel like I'm a pretty unlucky Peach when it comes to pierces)."
People shouldn't rely too much on shield stabbing everyone will be able to do light shield / angling later on (I think it's pretty underused atm)
As for shine jc grab you can do pretty much anything between the shine and grab, buffering roll/spotdodge/shine oos/etc, shine jc grab is never completely guaranteed
In case someone doesn't know, you can buffer options oos by holding the C stick in a direction (up = jump, left/right = roll, down = spotdodge) you will be able to do any of these in the first frame you are able to do so (such as the first frame out of shield stun)
"I FC Bair on shield > DSmash EVERY TIME even though it only pierces 1/5 times and I get punished the rest of the time (I feel like I'm a pretty unlucky Peach when it comes to pierces)."
People shouldn't rely too much on shield stabbing everyone will be able to do light shield / angling later on (I think it's pretty underused atm)
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Ah dude I thought you said JPOB at first, and I was gonna be like yeah that dude's posts ****
SUNG666
Smash Ace
Dude I was pretty shocked when I first saw there was a guy named JPOBS cause I have a friend in my crew named JBOBS LOL samurai jack is too good
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
i heard hairy nips played baka4moe
also if anyone from pasadena needs a ride to sung's tomorrow i can provide one
also if anyone from pasadena needs a ride to sung's tomorrow i can provide one
HairyNipples
Smash Apprentice
baKA is 2 legit love that dudes company. Find out where i can park without geting a 46 buck ticket 
cuz i was in a zone that said no parking 8am-8pm and parked 9pm -2pm and got cited for overnight parking -_- not cool
love that dudes company. Find out where i can park without geting a 46 buck ticket cuz i was in a zone that said no parking 8am-8pm and parked 9pm -2pm and got cited for overnight parking -_- not cool
baka4moé
Smash Champion
yea jake thats hella weird ppl park on hill all the time, and as long as its after 8pm there should be no problems. also im assuming u meant 9pm-2am right? really sorry about the ticket though, this has never happened to anyone before...
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
if it was outside the hours you can protest the ticket and get baka/peligro/anyone verifying the time of day you were there (type up a two-sentence note w/ your signature) and get it rescinded
Little England
Smash Master
I think there are two simple counters to this.
1. Just wait until the second shine is done and then punish. If they're going to run the risk of using their double jump to pressure your shield just smack 'em when they try to get away. (Falco is super slow. To quote KirbyKaze "Falco's main weakness is that he's slow. Once he starts pressuring he is fully commited.")
2. Light shield if you don't want to take the double shine/shine grab mixup. People hard shield too often in this game imo.
HairyNipples
Smash Apprentice
it was on the other side of san pasqual... the place where all the houses are. Theres a no parking 8am - 8pm obviously so school kids dont park there for their classes. A friend from pasadena said that you can get cited for parking in a residential area overnight.... IDK id have to call and see what the hell happened.
A3(PO4 3-)
Smash Apprentice
I got ***** so hard today by everyone How can I learn to tighten up my spacing and punish camping?
How can I learn to tighten up my spacing and punish camping?
baka4moé
Smash Champion
I recommend parking on hill next time thats where everyones been parking
Boris i didnt really watch ur matches so all i can say is that u really just need to play more people and think about stuff more. try to come over sometime and ill try to give u more (specific and useful) advice. if it helps u seem pretty good esp for only going to a couple tourneys
A3(PO4 3-)
Smash Apprentice
Yeah.. the difficulty curve was steep from the last one to this one, and this is only my second one.. I think I have the most trouble with sheiks who camp, and occasionally falcos/marths who camp. Baka, i'll try to go over sometime after your finals?
baka4moé
Smash Champion
yea i finish finals by wednesday. sung lets play sometime too ill be kinda bored.
lol boris if it makes u feel better the people today were just better than at mikes
lol boris if it makes u feel better the people today were just better than at mikes
Inty17
Smash Journeyman
I iz home till Sunday. I wanna shhhmasshh.
shadrach kabango
Banned via Warnings
young weston dennis wavedashes down and then shines again. iono for sure but i know i've tried nair oos before and the shine wins
i can do that =)
stabbedbyanipple
Smash Master
Have I met A3(PO4 3-) or does he not go to tournaments? lol