Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Crystanium]

Tier lists are subjective, which is why new renditions exist to this day.

I'm sure there is something objective about tier lists, so I suppose it's subjective with regard to certain factors. Who else could take ZeRo's place? Zinoto appeared to have better technical skill than ZeRo, or at least applied it.

 

[MercuryPenny]

It appears you repeated yourself. If not, perhaps you could explain the subtleties.

my bad lol. i meant that results are advanced by a playerbase driven by theory, and theory is advanced by a playerbase expanded through results/exposure

So, what you're suggesting is that the tier list is subjective?

with the metrics available to us, yes. results and theory have to be interpreted to be methods of weighing character strength rather than having objective conclusions everyone can agree on; that's why there are wildly varying opinions even between back room members as the official tier list is constructed, individual personal tier lists even more so

 

[Finh009]

Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1 (229 Entrants) (Kanto, Japan)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/UmeburaTQ1T

1st. Echo Fox | MVG | MkLeo
2nd. Shuton
3rd. shky
4th. Eim
5th.Paseriman
5th. DNG | Kameme
7th. Abadango
7th. T
9th. Kuro
9th. Tea
9th. Towa
9th. Yuzu
13th. Mao
13th. Raito
13th. takera
13th. Tiger

Spoiler: Rest of Top 32

17th. bAhuto
17th. Gackt
17th. gain
17th. Onpu
17th. Repo
17th. Ri-ma
17th. Songn
17th. Yotchan
25th. SHI-G | Abia
25th. Akabuchi
25th. Earth
25th. RSZ | Umeki
25th. Shiki
25th. Shogun
25th. taranito
25th. Zackray

Tsu- out at 49th.

Kome drowned in pools.

MkLeo, Shuton and shky qualify for Tokaigi.

 

[Nu~]

Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1 (229 Entrants) (Kanto, Japan)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/UmeburaTQ1T

1st. Echo Fox | MVG | MkLeo
2nd. Shuton
3rd. shky
4th. Eim
5th.Paseriman
5th. DNG | Kameme
7th. Abadango
7th. T
9th. Kuro
9th. Tea
9th. Towa
9th. Yuzu
13th. Mao
13th. Raito
13th. takera
13th. Tiger

Spoiler: Rest of Top 32

17th. bAhuto
17th. Gackt
17th. gain
17th. Onpu
17th. Repo
17th. Ri-ma
17th. Songn
17th. Yotchan
25th. SHI-G | Abia
25th. Akabuchi
25th. Earth
25th. RSZ | Umeki
25th. Shiki
25th. Shogun
25th. taranito
25th. Zackray

Tsu- out at 49th.

Kome drowned in pools.

MkLeo, Shuton and shky qualify for Tokaigi.

Are any vods up yet? I really wanna see Tea’s play again

 

[Deleted member]

Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1 (229 Entrants) (Kanto, Japan)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/UmeburaTQ1T

1st. Echo Fox | MVG | MkLeo
2nd. Shuton
3rd. shky
4th. Eim
5th.Paseriman
5th. DNG | Kameme
7th. Abadango
7th. T
9th. Kuro
9th. Tea
9th. Towa
9th. Yuzu
13th. Mao
13th. Raito
13th. takera
13th. Tiger

Spoiler: Rest of Top 32

17th. bAhuto
17th. Gackt
17th. gain
17th. Onpu
17th. Repo
17th. Ri-ma
17th. Songn
17th. Yotchan
25th. SHI-G | Abia
25th. Akabuchi
25th. Earth
25th. RSZ | Umeki
25th. Shiki
25th. Shogun
25th. taranito
25th. Zackray

Tsu- out at 49th.

Kome drowned in pools.

MkLeo, Shuton and shky qualify for Tokaigi.

Of course MKLeo would win.
Interesting that he used mostly Marth and Meta Knight, probably because he was too stressed to use Cloud against top players like Shunton. Is MKLeo considered the Bayonetta slayer, or is Dabuz? They both are really good at fighting Bayonetta and checking her play.

 

[Finh009]

Are any vods up yet? I really wanna see Tea’s play again

Unfortunately no, and the stream replay is locked behind a paywall.

If really want to see more of Tea I recommend that you tune in to the 2nd qualifier tomorrow.

 

[Nah]

made me remember a post on the announcement thread for the 4th tier list https://smashboards.com/threads/4br-smash-for-wii-u-tier-list-v4.452109/#post-21882314
feel like it's worth bringing up and might explain the low playerbase and lack of attention directed towards them (especially the point about robin never being on stream for some reason)

Delzethin has always been rather (somewhat baselessly imo) optimistic about Robin. His post is largely blaming the rest of the community for Robin's placement on tier lists, but the responsibility lies with her playerbase to work on the character's meta and net her good results (which make stream time not matter so much, if the character is frequently getting good results, they are frequently getting good results, regardless of stream time).

But her playerbase, including myself, is/has been coming to realize that she's not a truly viable character and so is not worth maining anymore. People like to praise this game's balance, but I think that people confuse "this is better balanced than Melee/Brawl" with "this is a well-balanced game". The former is true, the latter is not. But since people confuse the two, people still cling to this false hope that the majority of the cast is viable, yet everything we have says otherwise. It's been more than 3 years, in the age of the internet, and patches are no more. While the meta is not and may never be completely set, it's still very unlikely that there's going to be a lot of huge shifts in it long-term.

If you read a bit of the Twitter conversation, Dath says something that I've felt for a while and think sums the character's problem(s) up nicely:

Honestly the best feeling for me is losing a match as MK and being like "wow, I got out-played" instead of losing a match as Robin and being like "wow, there was nothing I could do, Robin sucks"

Tier lists are subjective, which is why new renditions exist to this day.

It's not so much that they change because they're objective or subjective, but more that metagames are a somewhat fluid thing (the "meta" in the word metagame implies this).

 

[The_Bookworm]

Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1 (229 Entrants) (Kanto, Japan)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/UmeburaTQ1T

1st. Echo Fox | MVG | MkLeo
2nd. Shuton
3rd. shky
4th. Eim
5th.Paseriman
5th. DNG | Kameme
7th. Abadango
7th. T
9th. Kuro
9th. Tea
9th. Towa
9th. Yuzu
13th. Mao
13th. Raito
13th. takera
13th. Tiger

Spoiler: Rest of Top 32

17th. bAhuto
17th. Gackt
17th. gain
17th. Onpu
17th. Repo
17th. Ri-ma
17th. Songn
17th. Yotchan
25th. SHI-G | Abia
25th. Akabuchi
25th. Earth
25th. RSZ | Umeki
25th. Shiki
25th. Shogun
25th. taranito
25th. Zackray

Tsu- out at 49th.

Kome drowned in pools.

MkLeo, Shuton and shky qualify for Tokaigi.

Paseriman went on a rampage in the loser's bracket. 2-0'd Gackt , Onpu , 2-1'd Raito , 2-0'd Tea , then 2-1'd Abadango before losing to Eim 2-0. Also, gain 2-1'd Earth .

We are right: We NEED those Japanese ZSS players here in USA.

 

[MarioManTAW]

We are right: We NEED those Japanese ZSS players here in USA.

2GG: Metroid Saga, anyone?

 

[The_Bookworm]

2GG: Metroid Saga, anyone?

If that happens, then it is possible for Bayonetta, Earthbound, or Donkey Kong (series) Saga to happen.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Why are there no Robins, is it because Robin is too slow to play for some players so there is a lack of them?

It's probably because Robin isn't that good. She has several -2 MUs against some of the most relevant characters in the game, and -1 against the rest of top/high tier (pretty much, anyway). I could see her dropping a bit on the next tier list, I don't (currently, at least) think that she's better than Mr. Game & Watch, Wario, or Roy.

Not that these characters are all that great either. Chances are we're going to see more and more players either quit or retire their low/mid tier main in favor of a high/top tier main (some of them will still use their former main as a secondary/pocket, though), at least at higher levels of play. It's not very fun to feel that you've lost not because you got outplayed but because your character has a -2 or -3 MU vs your opponent's character. If there's money on the line then I imagine it'd feel even worse.

I think skilled low tier and mid tier players are great for the viewers, but they might not be that great for the players. It feels like lately, we only really see S, A, and B tier players doing consistently well (which,

But her playerbase, including myself, is/has been coming to realize that she's not a truly viable character and so is not worth maining anymore. People like to praise this game's balance, but I think that people confuse "this is better balanced than Melee/Brawl" with "this is a well-balanced game". The former is true, the latter is not. But since people confuse the two, people still cling to this false hope that the majority of the cast is viable, yet everything we have says otherwise.

Having ~12-22 solo viable characters is still really good for a Smash game. It, of course, means that the majority of the roster isn't solo viable at higher levels. Sure, Link can get lucky and not run into any -2 MUs (or manage to secure wins vs those MUs), but he's still going to run into a lot of -1 MUs and either have to outplay consistently or hope that the opponent doesn't know the MU. Low tiers and mid tiers have a tendency to hope for bracket luck or MU inexperience. High tiers and top tiers generally need to worry about that less.

Also, -3 MUs are really rare in Smash 4, while they were somewhat common in Melee and Brawl.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Also, -3 MUs are really rare in Smash 4, while they were somewhat common in Melee and Brawl.

There were some -4 matchups in those two games.

 

[Frihetsanka]

There were some -4 matchups in those two games.

Melee didn't have any -4 MUs, according to the last community MU chart (though going -3 against the most popular characters in the game isn't exactly good either). Brawl had some -4s for Bowser, Zelda, and Ganondorf, but these characters were not very viable to begin with. Smash 4 greatly buffed Bowser, and somewhat buffed Zelda and Ganondorf as well, so in that sense, the bottom of the barrel isn't quite as bad as they were in Brawl. They're still pretty bad though.

 

[Deleted member]

Paseriman went on a rampage in the loser's bracket. 2-0'd Gackt , Onpu , 2-1'd Raito , 2-0'd Tea , then 2-1'd Abadango before losing to Eim 2-0. Also, gain 2-1'd Earth .

We are right: We NEED those Japanese ZSS players here in USA.

Dude, Paseriman powered up. Him beating all of those people like that is actually impressive for a person like him ( especially Ratio and Abadango ). Congratulations to gain for defeating Earth, who is a Pit main.

2GG: Metroid Saga, anyone?

That would actually not be a bad idea. We would need ESAM to not pick Pikachu and IcyMist to show up.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

You guys lost me with the "better than melee and brawl" vs the "smash 4 is a balanced game" arguement.

 

[The_Bookworm]

You guys lost me with the "better than melee and brawl" vs the "smash 4 is a balanced game" arguement.

Basically, SSB4 is better balanced that SSBM or SSBB, but the game itself is not perfectly balanced at all.

 

[Galaxeon]

Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1 (229 Entrants) (Kanto, Japan)
Bracket: http://challonge.com/UmeburaTQ1T

1st. Echo Fox | MVG | MkLeo
2nd. Shuton
3rd. shky
4th. Eim
5th.Paseriman
5th. DNG | Kameme
7th. Abadango
7th. T
9th. Kuro
9th. Tea
9th. Towa
9th. Yuzu
13th. Mao
13th. Raito
13th. takera
13th. Tiger

Spoiler: Rest of Top 32

17th. bAhuto
17th. Gackt
17th. gain
17th. Onpu
17th. Repo
17th. Ri-ma
17th. Songn
17th. Yotchan
25th. SHI-G | Abia
25th. Akabuchi
25th. Earth
25th. RSZ | Umeki
25th. Shiki
25th. Shogun
25th. taranito
25th. Zackray

Tsu- out at 49th.

Kome drowned in pools.

MkLeo, Shuton and shky qualify for Tokaigi.

Wow, how have I never heard of Shky before? He's "only" ranked 70th in the latest Japan PR of 2017, and now in two weekends he top 8'ed Evo Japan 2018 where he notably defeated Tsu , AC , Ryo and Anti and proceeded to qualify for Tokaigi 2018 beating Shogun , Abadango, T and Eim, only falling to Leo and Shuton, the two players who placed above him at the event, and not without taking a game from both. That's impressive.
Same with Paseriman who is again "only" top 70 in Japan. This region is awesome.

 

[Rizen]

Zinoto appeared to have better technical skill than ZeRo, or at least applied it.

If there's one thing SSB4 has proven time after time it's fundamentals>>>>>tech skill. T's Link is the perfect example; he doesn't even use bombslides but is smart about spacing and pressure. He makes good calls and keeps opponents off balance. His style does have flaws in being overly aggressive when he has the lead and he commits to laggy moves that get him punished vs players he can't read. If T mastered keep away he'd be crazy good.

A lot of people complain about ssb4's lack of ATs, which is fair, but the balance rewards whoever makes good calls. If you lose, you got outplayed (or SDed). Everything sums up to risk/reward ratios in characters and players' management of. Pac Man can have tricks up the arcade coin slot and still lose to a well placed grab or confirm.

 

[|RK|]

Wow, how have I never heard of Shky before? He's "only" ranked 70th in the latest Japan PR of 2017, and now in two weekends he top 8'ed Evo Japan 2018 where he notably defeated Tsu , AC , Ryo and Anti and proceeded to qualify for Tokaigi 2018 beating Shogun , Abadango, T and Eim, only falling to Leo and Shuton, the two players who placed above him at the event, and not without taking a game from both. That's impressive.
Same with Paseriman who is again "only" top 70 in Japan. This region is awesome.

Many regions are proud of their mid level players or top level players. But they typically have fewer of the latter than the former.

Japan's high to top level is genuinely insane. I don't think there's another region that compares in high level players.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Many regions are proud of their mid level players or top level players. But they typically have fewer of the latter than the former.

Japan's high to top level is genuinely insane. I don't think there's another region that compares in high level players.

U.S.A.? If you talking about regions outside the U.S.A., then yes.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

If there's one thing SSB4 has proven time after time it's fundamentals>>>>>tech skill. T's Link is the perfect example; he doesn't even use bombslides but is smart about spacing and pressure. He makes good calls and keeps opponents off balance. His style does have flaws in being overly aggressive when he has the lead and he commits to laggy moves that get him punished vs players he can't read. If T mastered keep away he'd be crazy good.

A lot of people complain about ssb4's lack of ATs, which is fair, but the balance rewards whoever makes good calls. If you lose, you got outplayed (or SDed). Everything sums up to risk/reward ratios in characters and players' management of. Pac Man can have tricks up the arcade coin slot and still lose to a well placed grab or confirm.

Fundamentals = choosing good options, Execution = more options.

 

[|RK|]

U.S.A.? If you talking about regions outside the U.S.A., then yes.

Well, I guess my error is comparing all of Japan to the U.S.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Most people don't know about the japanese scene.
It's flooded with talented players, and they have a very different mentality and aren't afraid to face top players.
Upsets happen often there because they never give up.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Most people don't know about the japanese scene.
It's flooded with talented players, and they have a very different mentality and aren't afraid to face top players.
Upsets happen often there because they never give up.

In the early SSB4 metagame, ZeRo believed that Japan was a better region because the Japanese players were "tryhards" (and yes, he said that in the interview where he called out all Falcon mains). This trait is also expressed in their characters, as they were stuck and dedicated to their mains instead of switching to a higher tiered character, which is why more mid to low tiered characters show up in Japanese tournaments, resulting an altered metagame. However, even to this day, this fact was rubbed on us in a wrong way, resulting in region bias when discussing about a character's viability.

 

[Nu~]

Apparently a dude was able to upload some of Tea’s sets


And here we have our Pac friend overseas taking a bite out of Rosa right after Sinji. Almost as if that MU wasn’t bad or something :^)

 

[The_Bookworm]

Apparently a dude was able to upload some of Tea’s sets


And here we have our Pac friend overseas taking a bite out of Rosa right after Sinji. Almost as if that MU wasn’t bad or something :^)

Who was the Rosa player?

 

[Skeeter Mania]

However, even to this day, this fact was rubbed on us in a wrong way, resulting in region bias when discussing about a character's viability.

In your opinion, which characters are the most affected by this region bias?

 

[Nathan Richardson]

In the early SSB4 metagame, ZeRo believed that Japan was a better region because the Japanese players were "tryhards" (and yes, he said that in the interview where he called out all Falcon mains). This trait is also expressed in their characters, as they were stuck and dedicated to their mains instead of switching to a higher tiered character, which is why more mid to low tiered characters show up in Japanese tournaments, resulting an altered metagame. However, even to this day, this fact was rubbed on us in a wrong way, resulting in region bias when discussing about a character's viability.

Huh, you mean that like me and certain players on FG they simply main who they want instead of switching up characters? What a concept.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

The guy also has Shuton vs Tea uploaded.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Who was the Rosa player?

Yuzu, a pretty well known player in the Japanese scene.
No quite at Kirihara's level, but a good player nonetheless.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Huh, you mean that like me and certain players on FG they simply main who they want instead of switching up characters? What a concept.

Not all of them, but yeah. They usually switch to higher tiered characters in order to obtain better results, since they are focused on winning. That is the main reason, but there are other reasons why they switch to higher tiered characters (like playstyle). Those who don't switch mains to higher ranked characters usually do it because one: the character fits their playstyle and it brings the most success, two: they believe in their character and they think they can bring the character to the next level, or three: they simply play the game for fun and isn't worried on losing. That last reason is most common in non-tournament settings were money is not on the line.
Of course, they are more reasons for both aspects, but those are the main reasons.

In your opinion, which characters are the most affected by this region bias?

Lucas, Duck Hunt (especially after Genesis 4), Lucario, Greninja (especially prior to Greninja Saga), and to a lesser extent: Dedede, Charizard, and Shulk.

I mentioned this in a previous post, but many players also focus on the character's main strengths, ignoring an overlooked factor of a character's overall strength: weaknesses that harms or nullify the reliability of a character's strengths, or it makes the character's own strengths flawed. I noticed that many of the characters people considers underrated (Shulk, Roy, Lucas, Falco for example) suffers from this. For example, Roy's combo game is flawed: as his sweetspotted moves are ineffective at performing lengthy combos past medium percents, while his forward, back and down throws are heavily reliant on reads because of their very low hitstun. Roy also has poor a approach despite his mobility owing to his slow air acceleration and unsafe aerials that cannot autocancel in a short hop. On a related note, Roy is ineffective at spacing: despite having disjointed range, the Sword of Seals' virtually useless sourspots force him to space his sweetspotted attacks dangerously close to opponents.

My personal tier list, which is at this citation, is modified from the official list to attempt to avoid those two things inflicting false viability (you might need to scroll down):
https://smashboards.com/threads/your-personal-tier-lists-anyone-can-input.452908/#post-21911905

 

[nannerham]

Roy's combo game is flawed: as his sweetspotted moves are ineffective at performing lengthy combos past medium percents, while his forward, back and down throws are heavily reliant on reads because of their very low hitstun. Roy also has poor a approach despite his mobility owing to his slow air acceleration and unsafe aerials that cannot autocancel in a short hop. On a related note, Roy is ineffective at spacing: despite having disjointed range, the Sword of Seals' virtually useless sourspots force him to space his sweetspotted attacks dangerously close to opponents.

This is completely false, the absolute worst his shield advantage gets when it comes to his sourspot aerials is -9 (bair) and because its a sourspot aerial that means the opponent is a fair distance away, Roy's ability to space is hardly ineffective and I don't know about you but to me his ability to space seems actually pretty solid.

Shield Advantage (OoS)

N-air (Hit 1): -7
N-air (Hit 2): -7
F-air: -7
B-air: -9
D-tilt: -9

Shield Advantage (Shield Drop)

N-air (Hit 1): 0
N-air (Hit 2): 0
F-air: 0
B-air: -2
D-tilt: -2

All of these numbers where from his sourspot moves and look at that none of the moves he uses to reliably space even hit -10, and just to reiterate that since these are sourspot moves that means the opponent is a fair distance away. Remember to always do your research folks when talking about the advantages/disadvantages of a character so you don't spread misinformation.

 

[Rizen]

Fundamentals = choosing good options, Execution = more options.

What? Fundamentals is understanding core game mechanics and execution is performance.

More options do not necessarily mean better performance. Point in case: Pac Man and Link are both complex characters with a wide array of options yet the relatively simple DK outperforms them both with a powerful grab kill confirm.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Lucas, Duck Hunt (especially after Genesis 4), Lucario, Greninja (especially prior to Greninja Saga), and to a lesser extent: Dedede, Charizard, and Shulk.

Lemme take a wild guess:

• : Taiheita (and now possibly Agehasama)
  
• : Raito, Brood, You3, Tamushika
  
• : Tsu~
  
• : Oisiitofu, Lea, Some
  
• : Zaki
  
• : Tosshi
• : Kome

 

[Baby_Sneak]

What? Fundamentals is understanding core game mechanics and execution is performance.

More options do not necessarily mean better performance. Point in case: Pac Man and Link are both complex characters with a wide array of options yet the relatively simple DK outperforms them both with a powerful grab kill confirm.

that.......leads to choosing good options. Knowing how things work gives you a more informed choice.

being able to do things reliably keeps those things as consistent options.

I can play simple Zard and do well, but my palette would be limited on how to play. Or, I can practice extended Dashdancing, Perfect Pivot, get a superb feel on how Zard moves on the ground and in the air, just know how he moves in generally to a great degree, and play a slippery dragon that skates across the stage and be given more choices on how to play. because I practiced these extra options and made them consistent.

don't just think character v character. it's more nuanced than that.

 

[TDK]

http://live2.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv310002938

Umebura Tokaigi qualifier #2, featuring...

Abadango
Earth
Kuro
Eim
Takera
T
Some
Umeki
Kie
Gackt
Kameme
Tsu-
Kome
Ri-Ma
Raito
RAIN
Tea

and more!

EDIT: Upset in literally the first match of the day:

Nicorin > Earth !

 

[WiFi]

Diddy is top three. I agree with his position on the tier list and the f

Dude, Paseriman powered up. Him beating all of those people like that is actually impressive for a person like him ( especially Ratio and Abadango ). Congratulations to gain for defeating Earth, who is a Pit main.

That would actually not be a bad idea. We would need ESAM to not pick Pikachu and IcyMist to show up.

Add DanishButterCookie, if he actually decides to travel. He was able to go even with Mr.E in the sets they had together so he's the hidden best Samus main imo.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Lemme take a wild guess:

• : Taiheita (and now possibly Agehasama)
  
• : Raito, Brood, You3, Tamushika
  
• : Tsu~
  
• : Oisiitofu, Lea, Some
  
• : Zaki
  
• : Tosshi
• : Kome

Yep. There are other Lucario players, and the Dedede and Charizards mainly come from Europe.

This is completely false, the absolute worst his shield advantage gets when it comes to his sourspot aerials is -9 (bair) and because its a sourspot aerial that means the opponent is a fair distance away, Roy's ability to space is hardly ineffective and I don't know about you but to me his ability to space seems actually pretty solid.

Shield Advantage (OoS)

N-air (Hit 1): -7
N-air (Hit 2): -7
F-air: -7
B-air: -9
D-tilt: -9

Shield Advantage (Shield Drop)

N-air (Hit 1): 0
N-air (Hit 2): 0
F-air: 0
B-air: -2
D-tilt: -2

All of these numbers where from his sourspot moves and look at that none of the moves he uses to reliably space even hit -10, and just to reiterate that since these are sourspot moves that means the opponent is a fair distance away. Remember to always do your research folks when talking about the advantages/disadvantages of a character so you don't spread misinformation.

At first, it looks like a good spacing tool (and I can understand why), but his sword range is not very impressive (not as worst as Mii Sword though). SSB4 Roy now stands at Marth's height, which enlarges his hurtbox, though his attacks have much shorter ranges and hitbox durations in spite of this, forcing him to fight at a much closer range, which exacerbates one of his key weaknesses in Melee. He is faster now, but his range was overall nerfed.
When in that situation, the opponent is generally closer to him, so he can be zoned out despite his speed, and he gets punished hard due to his fast falling speed falling speed and him being heavier than in Melee. If he had Melee's mechanics to back up his buffed toolkit, then he would be a much stronger character that can reliably approach, but he cannot.
Also, the shield mechanic changes of 1.1.0. and 1.1.1. made his sourspot hitboxes less safe on shield. He suffers more from this than Marth, since Roy must use his to space.

 

[Deleted member]

I already miss @Emblem Lord T________T, please come back to this thread again.

http://live2.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv310002938

Umebura Tokaigi qualifier #2, featuring...

Abadango
Earth
Kuro
Eim
Takera
T
Some
Umeki
Kie
Gackt
Kameme
Tsu-
Kome
Ri-Ma
Raito
RAIN
Tea

and more!

EDIT: Upset in literally the first match of the day:

Nicorin > Earth !

Ooo, MKLeo not qualifying is interesting. That means players could have a chance and the winner is going to be less predictable. Hopefully Kome makes a comeback from drowning in the pools. Just want to mention that Eim did phenomenal in Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1 ( 4th! ). Beating a Diddy Kong ( Paseriman ) who was flaring and getting higher than Abadango, T, and Kameme is impressive. Congratulations on Nicorin for beating Earth in a set!

 

[The_Bookworm]

At first, it looks like a good spacing tool (and I can understand why), but his sword range is not very impressive (not as worst as Mii Sword though). SSB4 Roy now stands at Marth's height, which enlarges his hurtbox, though his attacks have much shorter ranges and hitbox durations in spite of this, forcing him to fight at a much closer range, which exacerbates one of his key weaknesses in Melee. He is faster now, but his range was overall nerfed.
When in that situation, the opponent is generally closer to him, so he can be zoned out despite his speed, and he gets punished hard due to his fast falling speed falling speed and him being heavier than in Melee. If he had Melee's mechanics to back up his buffed toolkit, then he would be a much stronger character that can reliably approach, but he cannot.
Also, the shield mechanic changes of 1.1.0. and 1.1.1. made his sourspot hitboxes less safe on shield. He suffers more from this than Marth, since Roy must use his to space.

Just a disclaimer, I think Roy does deserve to be in the lower end of mid tier. But his strengths would be powerful if it wasn't held back by those said flaws.

I already miss @Emblem Lord T________T, please come back to this thread again.

Ooo, MKLeo not qualifying is interesting. That means players could have a chance and the winner is going to be less predictable. Hopefully Kome makes a comeback from drowning in the pools. Just want to mention that Eim did phenomenal in Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1 ( 4th! ). Beating a Diddy Kong ( Paseriman ) who was flaring and getting higher than Abadango, T, and Kameme is impressive. Congratulations on Nicorin for beating Earth in a set!

Seems like the Japanese has hidden bosses in their own metagame. Time will tell to see how far they will place.
I will wait for the results. Btw, they are qualifiers for what tournament?