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its has been a good season with hype sets geat moments crazy upsets everything you would expect in a smash 4 season but there has been a noticeable lack of major tournaments the only major ones are Genesis 5 Frostbite Hyrule Saga and CEO in my opinion
There wasn't a lot of majors at the first half of this season, but then it kicked out into action at the second half. I say that all the A/A+ tiered tournaments are majors.
good point but what I meant to say was supermajors
Today is July 24th.Here are the current PGR v5 top 50 player! Starting with 50-41!
Link: https://amp.redbull.com/us-en/pgrv5-50-41?__twitter_impression=true
50. Kirihara
49. Locus
48. Sinji
47. 6WX
46. Tsu
45. Darkshad
44. Maister
43. Zenyou
42. Ned
41. Shky
Stay tune for Thursday July 23rd!
T has also attended almost no major tournaments this year
That did not stop shky from ending up on the PGR. Him, Kirihara and Tsu- all got in without leaving Japan, and T has quite the amount of wins and results to get in. I never mentioned majors, and even knowing that, T has a better argument, but he probably will get snubbed hard.
Pac-Man is probably at the upper low tier or lower mid tier. I personally put him at the top of low tier, but who knows.
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YES Captain L made it on the PGR36. Captain L
MVD isnt the only one who got carried hard in this PGR by his G5 placement, Vinnie and Shoyo James placed higher than Captain L by their peaks despite Captain L clearly having better consistency and wins alongside having better attendence.
Consistency is part of it. L is somewhat consistent, but not that consistent, and Vinnie and Shoyo showed excellent performances in their own rights at B and C tiered events. Both of them also got a high placing on the major PGR'ed events they did participate.
to be honest, I have never been the biggest fan of how the PGR is set up they need to fix this issue when it comes to wins
Seconded. This is what I always say - and why I really don't think placement should be balanced with wins, as people say. Should just be wins & losses IMO. But that's just my preference.
and aren't grapplers, and why another character you might not expect is one.
If that is how "grappler" stereotype works, then they need to work on the naming convention.Apropos of nothing, I've been thinking about character archetypes in Smash recently, specifically the grappler archetype and how often the term "grappler" is misused in Smash. So I wanted to make a post about the grappler archetype, why
On a surface level, Bowser and DK look a lot like grapplers in other fighting games. After all, they're big buff dudes who deal a lot of damage and grab a lot, which sounds very similar to Zangief, the prototypical grappler as far as I'm aware. But that comparison really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. There are a bunch of other, far more important commonalities among grapplers that Bowser and DK lack.
For one, grapplers tend to struggle in neutral, due to low mobility and big hitboxes, and while Bowser and DK do have somewhat linear neutrals, I wouldn't say they really struggle to approach in the same way traditional grapplers do.
The second point is their disadvantage states. Grapplers don't always have great disadvantage states, but their disadvantage is almost always extremely threatening, as command grabs do the same damage no matter how you land them and can often lead to side switches, putting you in the corner when they were previously. Again, neither Bowser nor DK really has this; they do have disadvantage options that can reverse the situation, but they're so generally terrible they may as well not exist, and their disadvantage states are notoriously terrible.
Most important of all, though, is how they play neutral. Grapplers are generally some of the best characters in the game at exploiting their opponent's fear and conditioning them to take certain defensive options they excel at punishing, and Bowser and DK just don't do that. They dash grab, occasionally pivot grab, and sometimes they use jab/dtilt comboed into grab, but no matter what, they always grab, and they get the same reward off every type of grab. They can get early kills off stuff like airdodge read bair or airdodge read regrab on a platform, but every character has stuff like that. Bowser and DK don't exploit fear or conditioning any better than Palutena, another character with a good grab game who is decidedly not a grappler.
So if Bowser and DK aren't grapplers, who is? Ike is a good candidate, as he utilizes and benefits from fear and conditioning a fair amount and struggles to deal with zoning, but there's one character I think fits the bill better than anyone else in the game. One character in particular who has high damage output, explosive disadvantage, weak approach, and heavily benefits from fear and conditioning because her best damage comes from calling out defensive options. I'm talking, of course, about Bayonetta.
"But Bayo doesn't have a grab game!" That's correct, yes, but she doesn't need to. Being a grappler isn't about having a threatening grab. It can certainly help because it forces people to choose non-shield defensive options, but you can be a grappler without having a strong grab game. Grapplers are, first and foremost, about fear and conditioning, things Bayo is great at taking advantage of, and she ticks the rest of the boxes, too.
So in summary, please update your stereotypes about grapplers.
This is a good post, but I’ll disagree with a bit of it, as I started with 2D fighters, and Smash is weird sometimes.Apropos of nothing, I've been thinking about character archetypes in Smash recently, specifically the grappler archetype and how often the term "grappler" is misused in Smash. So I wanted to make a post about the grappler archetype, why
On a surface level, Bowser and DK look a lot like grapplers in other fighting games. After all, they're big buff dudes who deal a lot of damage and grab a lot, which sounds very similar to Zangief, the prototypical grappler as far as I'm aware. But that comparison really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. There are a bunch of other, far more important commonalities among grapplers that Bowser and DK lack.
For one, grapplers tend to struggle in neutral, due to low mobility and big hitboxes, and while Bowser and DK do have somewhat linear neutrals, I wouldn't say they really struggle to approach in the same way traditional grapplers do.
The second point is their disadvantage states. Grapplers don't always have great disadvantage states, but their disadvantage is almost always extremely threatening, as command grabs do the same damage no matter how you land them and can often lead to side switches, putting you in the corner when they were previously. Again, neither Bowser nor DK really has this; they do have disadvantage options that can reverse the situation, but they're so generally terrible they may as well not exist, and their disadvantage states are notoriously terrible.
Most important of all, though, is how they play neutral. Grapplers are generally some of the best characters in the game at exploiting their opponent's fear and conditioning them to take certain defensive options they excel at punishing, and Bowser and DK just don't do that. They dash grab, occasionally pivot grab, and sometimes they use jab/dtilt comboed into grab, but no matter what, they always grab, and they get the same reward off every type of grab. They can get early kills off stuff like airdodge read bair or airdodge read regrab on a platform, but every character has stuff like that. Bowser and DK don't exploit fear or conditioning any better than Palutena, another character with a good grab game who is decidedly not a grappler.
So if Bowser and DK aren't grapplers, who is? Ike is a good candidate, as he utilizes and benefits from fear and conditioning a fair amount and struggles to deal with zoning, but there's one character I think fits the bill better than anyone else in the game. One character in particular who has high damage output, explosive disadvantage, weak approach, and heavily benefits from fear and conditioning because her best damage comes from calling out defensive options. I'm talking, of course, about Bayonetta.
"But Bayo doesn't have a grab game!" That's correct, yes, but she doesn't need to. Being a grappler isn't about having a threatening grab. It can certainly help because it forces people to choose non-shield defensive options, but you can be a grappler without having a strong grab game. Grapplers are, first and foremost, about fear and conditioning, things Bayo is great at taking advantage of, and she ticks the rest of the boxes, too.
So in summary, please update your stereotypes about grapplers.
I wouldn't call her a rushdown character, but that's overall a better way to put it, yeah.
People came up with the name because they noticed a lot of characters with command grabs played very similarly, hence, it was named "grappler". The term denotes a playstyle that's most commonly seen in big slow bois with command grabs, but that doesn't mean they're the only characters who play in that way.
Read the post again. I wrote in exclusively generic terms that apply to Smash just as well as any other fighting game. Bowser and DK just don't play like grapplers; they're glass cannons who rely on grab.
Very well said, I wouldn't really call Bayo a grappler though, she's a combo heavy character.Apropos of nothing, I've been thinking about character archetypes in Smash recently, specifically the grappler archetype and how often the term "grappler" is misused in Smash. So I wanted to make a post about the grappler archetype, why
On a surface level, Bowser and DK look a lot like grapplers in other fighting games. After all, they're big buff dudes who deal a lot of damage and grab a lot, which sounds very similar to Zangief, the prototypical grappler as far as I'm aware. But that comparison really doesn't hold up to scrutiny. There are a bunch of other, far more important commonalities among grapplers that Bowser and DK lack.
For one, grapplers tend to struggle in neutral, due to low mobility and big hitboxes, and while Bowser and DK do have somewhat linear neutrals, I wouldn't say they really struggle to approach in the same way traditional grapplers do.
The second point is their disadvantage states. Grapplers don't always have great disadvantage states, but their disadvantage is almost always extremely threatening, as command grabs do the same damage no matter how you land them and can often lead to side switches, putting you in the corner when they were previously. Again, neither Bowser nor DK really has this; they do have disadvantage options that can reverse the situation, but they're so generally terrible they may as well not exist, and their disadvantage states are notoriously terrible.
Most important of all, though, is how they play neutral. Grapplers are generally some of the best characters in the game at exploiting their opponent's fear and conditioning them to take certain defensive options they excel at punishing, and Bowser and DK just don't do that. They dash grab, occasionally pivot grab, and sometimes they use jab/dtilt comboed into grab, but no matter what, they always grab, and they get the same reward off every type of grab. They can get early kills off stuff like airdodge read bair or airdodge read regrab on a platform, but every character has stuff like that. Bowser and DK don't exploit fear or conditioning any better than Palutena, another character with a good grab game who is decidedly not a grappler.
So if Bowser and DK aren't grapplers, who is? Ike is a good candidate, as he utilizes and benefits from fear and conditioning a fair amount and struggles to deal with zoning, but there's one character I think fits the bill better than anyone else in the game. One character in particular who has high damage output, explosive disadvantage, weak approach, and heavily benefits from fear and conditioning because her best damage comes from calling out defensive options. I'm talking, of course, about Bayonetta.
"But Bayo doesn't have a grab game!" That's correct, yes, but she doesn't need to. Being a grappler isn't about having a threatening grab. It can certainly help because it forces people to choose non-shield defensive options, but you can be a grappler without having a strong grab game. Grapplers are, first and foremost, about fear and conditioning, things Bayo is great at taking advantage of, and she ticks the rest of the boxes, too.
So in summary, please update your stereotypes about grapplers.
Late, but monthly update. As always feel free to ask anything or dm for extensive questions. Mario is anywhere from 5-10 on the tier list
— ⚔️ Dark Wizzy ⚔️ (@Dark_Wizzy_) July 16, 2018
-July 2018 pic.twitter.com/weiFfyDmfs
Tbh most of those placements you mentioned seem fine to me. I would disagree with Mario beating Falcon that hard for one quick example though. Pit he thought for some reason had different frame data/properties than Dark Pit so he actually moved Pit back down to even as shown in the tweet thread below. I like the statement above by Frihetsanka about Anti's chart being too pessimistic while Dark Wizzy's is too optimistic though, I see what he means.
I'm incredibly glad that this has been said, as it has been needed to be said for a long time now.Apropos of nothing, I've been thinking about character archetypes in Smash recently, specifically the grappler archetype and how often the term "grappler" is misused in Smash. So I wanted to make a post about the grappler archetype, why
This inspires a question: Who are some characters in traditional fighting games, that you would call "grapplers", but don't have a threatening grab game?
i still wouldn't call it even. characters who go even with bayo tend to have the ability to pressure her when she has a lead, usually through countercamping (shiek needles, cloud limit charge, arguably fox lasers) which is a luxury mario definitely, definitely doesn't have. bayo being a fastfaller is pretty good for him but she's one of the characters who invalidates dair's usual 50/50 nature (and the only one i know of to always do so regardless of rage), so his low-percent damage output and emergency high-percent kills are pretty much out the window.
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Could you explain how this is the case? I'm not seeing it because Mario combos kirby pretty hard while kirby doesn't get nearly as much on Mario who also plays a considerably better neutral than him. It really sounds a lot closer to a -2 like the luigi matchup which is pretty difficult for kirby for similar reasons(ignoring his main strength and playing a better neutral).
