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Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

The_Bookworm

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 10, 2018
Messages
3,202
i dont see why people dont just block him already, its the same thing over and over

Personally, I think Ike would be C tier if it wasn't for the lack of rep. Hes solid all rounder that has the tools to handle most situations and actually does decently against quite a few high/top tiers.
Too bad DLC stole his playerbase, now he might be stuck with the low tier stigma until smash 5 comes out
If I ever enter go to a low tier event (when I go to tournaments in general lol), I am going to use Ike and say "are you sure this character belongs here". The funny thing is that while his results and strengths are that of a mid tier, people thoughts about him are of a low tier (such as ESAM, ZeRo, and Dabuz). It generally frustrates me. Like what Rizen said: G&W and Wario being there is also a bit confusing.
 
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J0eyboi

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
573
If I ever enter go to a low tier event (when I go to tournaments in general lol), I am going to use Ike and say "are you sure this character belongs here". The funny thing is that while his results and strengths are that of a mid tier, people thoughts about him are of a low tier (such as ESAM, ZeRo, and Dabuz). It generally frustrates me. Like what Rizen said: G&W and Wario being there is also a bit confusing.
Of course Ike looks good at low-tier events. Low-tier events don't have Cloud, Bayo, Marth, Shiek, Falcon, Pikachu, or any of those other characters that completely **** the guy up. Ike's matchups against other low tiers are pretty good, but outside there, he starts really struggling. I don't think he wins a single matchup in the top tier (though I could be super wrong on this, please correct me if so).
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 28, 2015
Messages
1,700
Location
Prince Edward Island
NNID
Catboog
Of course Ike looks good at low-tier events. Low-tier events don't have Cloud, Bayo, Marth, Shiek, Falcon, Pikachu, or any of those other characters that completely **** the guy up. Ike's matchups against other low tiers are pretty good, but outside there, he starts really struggling. I don't think he wins a single matchup in the top tier (though I could be super wrong on this, please correct me if so).
Ike may not win any top tier matchups, but the amounts that he outright loses is actually really slim, in a similar vein to link he has the right tools to combat the top tiers, they're just not very good tools, he has a bunch of -1's but no real -2's aside from maybe, idk, Sheik or like, Sonic or something?
 

The-Technique

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 27, 2016
Messages
613
Location
Maryland
NNID
luckysharm
Ike's hardest matchups are Sheik and Fox. A lot of Ike's feel the same towards DK but I personally don't think it's that bad for Ike.

And when I refer to "hardest" i mean matchups where a secondary might be considered, but they vary a lot between each player.
 
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Rizen

Smash Legend
Joined
May 7, 2009
Messages
14,907
Location
Colorado
Of course Ike looks good at low-tier events. Low-tier events don't have Cloud, Bayo, Marth, Shiek, Falcon, Pikachu, or any of those other characters that completely **** the guy up. Ike's matchups against other low tiers are pretty good, but outside there, he starts really struggling. I don't think he wins a single matchup in the top tier (though I could be super wrong on this, please correct me if so).
This describes all the D-tiers.
 

|RK|

Smash Marketer
Moderator
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
4,033
Location
Maryland
Ike may not win any top tier matchups, but the amounts that he outright loses is actually really slim, in a similar vein to link he has the right tools to combat the top tiers, they're just not very good tools, he has a bunch of -1's but no real -2's aside from maybe, idk, Sheik or like, Sonic or something?
Ike actually pretty regularly does well against Sonic. Always has.
 

JustCallMeJon

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 5, 2017
Messages
1,072
Location
Editing posts after posting posts...
3DS FC
3067-7373-5050
Switch FC
SW 4274 8573 0226
Man, I haven't reply to this thread for a long time! Otherwise, I thank you all for helping having a better understanding of Super Smash Bros.!

Today, I will list out 2-21 PGR'd players' results and wins from Umebura T.A.T. to Noods Noods Noods: Oakland Edition. Since SwitchFest is getting near, I will post updates on each players' results whenever SwitchFest is over!
Right now, I will post a separate thread for all results and wins for 2-50 PGR players soon.
Link: https://smashboards.com/threads/2-50-pgr-ranked-players-results-and-summary.454195/

In the mean time, here is the taste of these results! 2-21!

Salem
PGR Ranked: 2nd
Main(s): :4bayonetta:
Secondaries: :4greninja::4samus:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Ally
  • komorikiri
  • Cosmos
  • CaptainZack
  • MVD
  • Fatality
  • tyroy
  • Shoyo James
  • 6WX
  • K9sbruce
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 3rd GENESIS 5, 4th Frostbite 2018, 9th SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 7th Collision XV
C-TIER: N/A

Summary: In 2017, Salem was widely considered one of the greatest Smash 4 players of that year (behind ZeRo) and placed 2nd at PGR. In 2018, Salem started off strong at GENESIS 5; placing 3rd while losing to MKLeo and Mistake. After that, he placed 4th at Frostbite; he was first upset by Fatality and later lost to Tweek. Conclusively, he made a second-rate 9th place at Smash Masters League Vegas by losing to Nairo and Fatality once again. Overall in Q1, Salem attend less frequently than last year (He attends at A-Tier tournaments this year and only one B-Tier) and couldn't win prominent majors yet. At the same time, he hadn't beat any current top 10 players yet. Still, while his performance has declined slightly, he can still make a comeback at any time.


Nairo
PGR Ranked: 3rd
Main(s)::4zss:
Secondaries::4bowser::4diddy:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Salem
  • MKLeo
  • KEN
  • Mistake
  • CaptainZack
  • Marss
  • ESAM
  • MVD
  • 6WX
  • Light
  • Zenyou
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 1st SML: Battle for Vegas, 4th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 1st Niconico Tokaigi 2018, 1st Collision XV
C-TIER: N/A

Summary: Nairo is widely considered to be one of the consistent players out there, and it is no slouch to say that Nairo did take it all. With his trusty Zero-Suit, Nairo made a legitimate start at GENESIS 5 by placing 4th. After his 4th place at GENESIS 5, Nairo traveled to Japan and attend Niconico Tokaigi 2018. Facing MKLeo in Grand Finals, Nairo taken down MKLeo and win the tourney, despite Leo's undisputed dominance at GENESIS 5 and EVO Japan. After his win at Niconico Tokaigi 2018, he had been in a brief pause as he hadn't attend any major tournaments until Smash Masters League Vegas. Nevertheless, Nairo pulled a 1st place finish at Smash Masters League Vegas while beating most of the Bayonetta players such as Mistake, MKLeo, Salem, and CaptainZack. While his brief interruptions prompted people to question about Nairo, Nairo winning Smash Masters proves that even in a short inactivity, Nairo will nevertheless be a threat. From this, it will not be surprising that Nairo will be the best, but he still must fight against dominant players such as MKLeo, Tweek, and Mistake to collect the crown.


MKLeo
PGR Ranked: 4th
Main(s): :4marth::4cloud2:
Secondaries: :4metaknight::4bayonetta::4corrinf:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Salem
  • Nairo
  • Tweek
  • Dabuz
  • Mistake
  • Ally
  • Abadango
  • CaptainZack
  • ANTi
  • Lima
  • Shuton
  • Konga
  • Tsu-
  • Choco
  • Fatality
  • falln
  • Zenyou
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 1st GENESIS 5, 2nd SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 1st EVO Japan 2018, 2nd Niconico Tokaigi 2018, 3rd Midwest Mayhem 11
C-TIER: 1st Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1, 1st Noods Noods Noods: Oakland Edition

Summary
: MKLeo made a critical start in 2018. Leo had won GENESIS 5, EVO Japan 2018 and Umebura Tokaigi Qualifiers. However, after that, he made a minuscule drop by placing 2nd at Niconico Tokaigi 2018 and 3rd at Midwest Mayhem 11 while gotten upset by Zinoto. At Smash Masters League, MKLeo astonished everyone as he made a sudden Bayonetta pick against falln. Into top 8, he made an imminent loss against Nairo and was sent to losers. Into losers, MKLeo defeats Tweek 3-1 while one of the matches was a Bayonetta ditto. Pursuing retaliation, he defeats Fatality in a reverse 3-0 with his Bayonetta and 3-0d Mistake. However, his revenge fails as he was swiftly 3-0d by Nairo, placing 2nd. Throughout this year, MKLeo's performance is consistent and his results are very effective. From this, I believe he is a great contender for being the best player.


Tweek
PGR Ranked: 5th
Main(s): :4bayonetta::4cloud2:
Secondaries: :4dk:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Salem
  • Dabuz
  • Mr. R
  • Elegant
  • WaDi
  • Mistake
  • Ally
  • komorikiri
  • CaptainZack
  • Samsora
  • Lima
  • Darkshad
  • Charlie
  • Fatality
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 2nd Frostbite 2018, 5th SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 1st EGLX 2018
C-TIER: 1st King of the Springs 3, 1st Rise 2018

Summary: Tweek is widely considered one of the most divine Cloud players of all time (Alongside MKLeo and Komorikiri). This time, however, Tweek became one of the most competent Bayonetta players. Tweek hadn't used Cloud that much as he focused on playing his Bayonetta; with that, his dominance continues to grow just like last year. With his first major tournament attendance at Frostbite, he placed 2nd with mostly Bayo. Most surprisingly, he defeated the top Bayo players, Mistake and Salem, with only Bayonetta at top 8. From this unprecedented feat of Tweek's Bayonetta, many argue that Tweek may be the best Bayonetta out there as he was competent to win King of the Springs 3, EGLX 2018 and Rise 2018 with mostly Bayonetta. Finally, at Smash Masters Vegas, he placed 5th while losing to MKLeo which was a respectable loss. From his dominance, we will likely see Tweek seeking his best for being the best Smasher as his dominance with his Bayonetta gives him a boost on wins and results.


Dabuz
PGR Ranked: 6th
Main(s): :rosalina:
Secondaries: :4olimar::4bayonetta:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • MKLeo
  • Tweek
  • Mistake
  • Cosmos
  • Marss
  • ESAM
  • Zinoto
  • tyroy
  • Shoyo James
  • 6WX
  • Light
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 1st Frostbite 2018, 5th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 1st Midwest Mayhem 11, 5th Collision XV
C-TIER: 1st Xenosaga XIII, 1st Overclocked II, 3rd King of the Springs


Summary: Dabuz, the Mr. Consistent of Smash. Despite his cheerful personality, he is a feisty player in Smash. It is no surprise that Dabuz have done well throughout Q1 2018. In GENESIS 5, he placed 5th. In King of Springs 3, he placed 3rd. Since then Dabuz has made a slew of 1st placements at Frostbite 2018, Xenosaga XIII, Midwest Mayhem 11, and Overclocked II. By the surplus of wins at many tournaments he entered, it is by no surprise that Dabuz will be the candidate of being the best Smash 4 in PGR 5.


Larry Lurr
PGR Ranked: 7th
Main(s): :4fox:
Secondaries: :4dk::4diddy:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • VoiD
  • Ally
  • Kirihara
  • Charlie
  • falln
  • Zenyou
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 7th SML: Battle for Vegas, 17th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 5th Niconico Tokaigi 2018, 9th EGLX 2018
C-TIER: 1st Kawaii Kon 2018, 5th No Fun Allowed 2


Summary: Larry Lurr was one of the most effective player out there and a candidate for being the best. However, this year, Larry Lurr wasn't living out well. In GENESIS 5, Larry Lurr made an embarrassing 17th place by losing to Javi and Lima. In Niconico Tokaigi 2018, he was double eliminated by Tsu-, placing 5th. At No Fun Allowed 2, he positioned 5th once again. At Kawaii Kon 2018, he finally placed 1st while defeating VoiD. However, he was placed at an average 9th at EGLX 2018. In Smash Masters League, he was bodied by Cosmos 1-3 and Fatality 0-3, placing 7th. Although his results may be respectable, you need to realize that Larry Lurr is currently placed 7th at the current PGR and having these placements are not well commendable. It is also noted that he currently hasn’t defeated 9 out of 10 PGR Players out there. It is unknown whether Larry Lurr will be able to prompt it back but only time will tell.


KEN
PGR Ranked: 8th
Main(s): :4sonic:
Secondaries: N/A

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • VoiD
  • Shuton
  • Tsu-
  • Choco
  • Kameme
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: N/A
B-TIER: 1st Umebura T.A.T., 3rd Niconico Tokaigi 2018, 5th EVO Japan 2018
C-TIER: 1st Sumabato Tokaigi Qualifier 1, 7th Umebura 31


Summary: Japan has been silent throughout early 2018 as most Japanese players are currently focused on their regional tournaments instead of focusing on their American majors. KEN is one of them as he hasn’t entered any single North American tournaments as of right now. Still, KEN not entering any international majors doesn’t mean that he hasn’t contain any results. His 1st place at Umebura T.A.T. and Sumabato Tokaigi Qualifier, his 3rd place at Niconico Tokaigi 2018, and his 5th place at EVO Japan are very respectable in the Japanese community. He also has plenty wins under his belt such as beating VoiD, Shuton, Choco, and other Japanese players. However, his absence does harm him as these results are not as strong as the American majors. Despite this, KEN could have the chance to return to top 10, but time is growing slim as the next PGR iteration is getting closer.


VoiD
PGR Ranked: 9th
Main(s): :4sheik:
Secondaries: :4fox:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Larry Lurr
  • Choco
  • Fatality
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 9th SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 2nd Kawaii Kon 2018, 9th Niconico Tokaigi 2018
C-TIER: 5th Noods Noods Noods


Summary: VoiD has been quiet throughout early 2018. He hasn’t placed top 8s of any A-Tiers or win any top 10 PGR players right (excluding Larry Lurr). Despite his unusual obscure attendance, his attendance he enters were commendable. His 9th placement SML: Battle for Vegas and Niconico Tokaigi 2018 were pretty good and he does fairly well at C-Tier tournaments. However, his obscurity DOES harm him as the lack of attendance means that he can be outclassed by other players who contain greater results than VoiD’s. Like KEN, VoiD could have the chance to return to top 10 (2GGC: Hyrule Saga and 2GGC: SwitchFest), but of course, time is growing slim as the next PGR iteration is getting closer.


Mr. R
PGR Ranked: 10th
Main(s): :4sheik:
Secondaries: :4cloud2:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Elegant
  • Cosmos
  • Samsora
  • Darkshad
  • K9sbruce
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 5th Frostbite 2018, 9th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 9th EGLX 2018
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: Mr. R does fairly well through early 2018. Despite, Mr. R’s lack of wins on any of the top 10 players, his 9th place at GENESIS 5, 5th at Frostbite, and 9th EGLX are respectable results that should be fairly honored. After his EGLX performance, Mr. R has been notably silent in attendance for unknown reasons. Although Ramin will hopefully return (especially 2GGC: Hyrule Saga rolling in), he needs to be quick to retain his top 10 position as other players such as Fatality, ESAM, Cosmos, and falln, will try to snatch top 10 positions as they accomplished fantastic results.


Elegant
PGR Ranked: 11th
Main(s): :4luigi:
Secondaries: :4zss::4gaw:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Lima
  • Darkshad
  • falln
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 13th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: N/A
C-TIER: 1st No Fun Allowed 2, 2nd Noods Noods Noods, 2nd Rise 2018


Summary: Elegant is widely considered to be the best Luigi out there. His fantastic performance at GameTyrant Expo and 2GG Championship gives him an unimaginable boost to 11th place on the current PGR. However, similar to most PGR players throughout 2018, Elegant hasn’t enter any majors that would allow him to possibly place top 10 or retaining his position. His absence on majors after GENESIS 5, and the lack of major PGR wins throughout 2018 harms him significantly. Elegant, like many others, will need to attend more majors to retain or rise his position, but time will tell.

WaDi
PGR Ranked: 12th
Main(s)::4mewtwo:
Secondaries::4rob:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • ESAM
  • Lima
  • Darkshad
  • Zinoto
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 9th Frostbite 2018, 13th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 2nd EGLX 2018
C-TIER: 5th King of the Springs 3


Summary: Throughout latter 2017, WaDi made the largest jump in any PGR rank history. His fantastic placements in latter 2017 led to rise up from 46th place on PGR v3 to 12th place on PGR v4 (THAT IS A WHOOPING 34 POINTS RISE!). This amazing comeback in performance, alongside his engagement to his girlfriend live at 2GG Championship, makes him one of the most favorable smashers out there. WaDi made a strong performance in 2018 as he placed 13th at GENESIS, 2nd at EGLX 2018, and many other commendable results. However, WaDi doesn’t have any wins outside of top 10 and top 20 and his attendance was slightly more obscure. Despite this, the possibility for WaDi for entering top 10 is high, especially his great achievements in majors recently.


Mistake
PGR Ranked: 13th
Main(s): :4bayonetta2:
Secondaries: :4zss:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Salem
  • Nairo
  • Dabuz
  • VoiD
  • Mr. R
  • WaDi
  • Ally
  • Cosmos
  • ANTi
  • MVD
  • Konga
  • Fatality
  • falln
  • K9sbruce
  • Zenyou
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 2nd GENESIS 5, 3rd Frostbite 2018, 3rd SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 4th EGLX 2018
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: Mistake throughout Q3 of 2017 was astonishing. This Canadian Bayonetta player was able to take down the likes of Salem, CaptainZack, ZeRo, and many others while placing fantastic in tourneys such as 5th at Super Smash Con. Be that as it may, Mistake made a steep decline at Q4 as his performance grew more inconsistent. Some people dubbed him the "one-hit wonder" at one point and predicts that Mistake will never reach his peak performance after his sudden decline. Nonetheless, it was about to change, starting GENESIS 5. In GENESIS 5, he was gotten upset by a Mr. Game & Watch main, Maister and was sent to losers. One may argue that Mistake couldn't even make through top 32 and into top 8, but they are fooled for Mistake had made one of the most impressive losers run in Smash 4 history. Throughout losers, Mistake 2-0d ANTi, 3-2 Konga, 3-0 Javi, 3-1 WaDi, 3-1 K9sbruce, 3-0 falln, 3-2 Dabuz, 3-2 Nairo, and 3-0 Salem. However, his god-like losers run had ended as he lost to MKLeo 3-1. Since he fantastic 2nd place after his risky losers run performance, he still made a superb performance since then as he stood 3rd at Frostbite 2018, 4th at EGLX 2018, and 3rd Smash Master League Vegas. By the looks of his fantastic performance, it will be believable that Mistake could have a chance to win a major someday; and if so, Mistake will be one of the most significant threats as his performance could likely give him potential for being the best


Ally
PGR Ranked: 14th
Main(s): :4mario:
Secondaries: :4diddy:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Mr. R
  • ANTi
  • Konga
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 9th GENESIS 5, 13th SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 5th EGLX 2018, 9th Niconico Tokaigi 2018
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: Ally in early 2018 performs rather well in comparison to his volatile performance in latter 2017. Able to perform exceptionally well on majors while using a character that is currently debated whether it should be top tier or high tier as a solo main. Despite securing well-earned placings, Ally could not secure many wins against top players, with only 3 PGR’d players he defeated. Despite this, 2018 will be soon be a good year for Ally as he strives to pursue his Mario into great success. Ally will hopefully achieve similar success to his first-half of 2017, however maybe not to an extent of his 2016 peaks (Mario has decline overtime).


Abadango
PGR Ranked: 15th
Main(s): :4bayonetta::4mewtwo:
Secondaries: :4metaknight::rosalina:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • KEN
  • Kameme
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: N/A
B-TIER: 2nd EVO Japan 2018
C-TIER: 3rd Umebura 31, 5th Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 2, 7th Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1

Summary
: Abadango’s attendance was silent throughout early 2018. He, like many Japanese fellows, tend to stay in Japan. Despite many Umeburas, Sumabatos, and Karisumas in Japan, Abadango entered only one Umebura. His performance was splendid however, as he was able to secure 2nd place at EVO Japan 2018 with his trusty Bayonetta. Still, his lack of attendance brought him down into obscurity but him entering 2GGC SwitchFest will hopefully brought him back out of the darkness. Will Abadango return to his former top 10 glory? With the fantastic performance at EVO Japan, maybe, but time will tell.


Komorikiri
PGR Ranked: 16th
Main(s): :4cloud2::4sonic:
Secondaries: :4feroy:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Samsora
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 7th Frostbite 2018
B-TIER: 7th EVO Japan 2018
C-TIER: 5th Sumabato 24, 7th Sumabato 23


Summary: komorikiri attendance in Japan was slightly less obscure in comparison to KEN and Abadango. He made respectable placings at Sumabatos and placed very well at EVO Japan 2018. Komorikiri was one of the few Japanese players to currently enter a major outside of Japan, which was Frostbite 2018. Komorikiri certainly does well at Frostbite but that is the end of his ability to enter international majors until SwitchFest. Of course, komorikiri will try to show everyone his performance at SwitchFest.


Cosmos
PGR Ranked: 17th
Main(s): :4corrinf:
Secondaries: N/A

Notable PGR Wins:
  • Tweek
  • Larry Lurr
  • WaDi
  • Samsora
  • Shoyo James
  • AC
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 5th SML: Battle for Vegas, 7th Frostbite 2018
B-TIER: N/A
C-TIER: 4th King of the Springs 3


Summary: Since the Big House 7, Cosmos is widely considered to be the most divine Corrin player out there, able to take down the likes of ZeRo, Salem, and many others. This year is a prominent year for Cosmos. He placed 7th at Frostbite 2018 while beating WaDi and Shoyo James. He was unfortunately lost to Fatality 0-3 and Mr. R 3-2. After Frostbite, Cosmos attend King of the Springs 3 where he secured 4th, losing to Fatality once again. Finally, he entered Smash Masters Vegas where he placed 5th, losing to Fatality 3-0 once again. Although Cosmos have generated commendable results in Q1 2018, he has a hard time against Fatality and he hadn't enter many tournaments. Otherwise, Cosmos's results are good enough to secure Corrin's status as a high/top tier character.


CaptainZack
PGR Ranked: 18th
Main(s): :4bayonetta2:
Secondaries: :4peach::4wiifit:

Notable PGR Wins:
  • VoiD
  • Charlie
  • dyr
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 7th SML: Battle for Vegas, 17th Frostbite 2018
B-TIER: 4th Midwest Mayhem 11
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: CaptainZack seems to performance well in 2018. While having a rough start by placing 17th at Frostbite 2018, CaptainZack seemed to pull his performance and improve it after Frostbite by securing top 8 placements at Midwest Mayhem 11 and SML: Battle for Vegas.


Marss
PGR Ranked: 19th
Main(s): :4zss:
Secondaries: :4falcon::4lucario:

Notable PGR Wins:
  • Salem
  • Tweek
  • Samsora
  • Mr. E
  • Light
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 17th Frostbite 2018
B-TIER: 3rd Collision XV
C-TIER: 2nd Overclocked II


Summary: Marss is notorious for his uncommon tournament appearances, especially 2017. Despite his tournament appearance, Marss place exceptionally such as his 5th place at 2GGC: Civil War and 2nd place at Big House 7. These extremely successful yet uncommon tournament attendance makes him, in my opinion, the PPMD of Smash (in terms of how both are uncommon and successful at the same time). In early 2018, Marss handle rather well in his uncommon tournament appearances. Having a decent start at Frostbite, he made exceptionally well at Overclocked II and Collision XV while beating the likes of Salem, Light, and Tweek. Right now, Marss may seem to be an unlikely contender for top 20/top 15, but like before, Marss can make an explosive comeback.


ANTi
PGR Ranked: 20th
Main(s): :4mario:
Secondaries: :4zss::4cloud::4metaknight::4sonic:

Notable PGR Wins:
  • K9sbruce
  • falln
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: N/A
B-TIER: 7th EGLX 2018
C-TIER: 2nd Noods Noods Noods: Oakland Edition


Summary: ANTi starts his performance in early 2018 by placing 7th at EGLX 2018. After that, ANTi went on placing 2nd at Noods Noods Noods: Oakland Edition. ANTi’s future can be bright but it is up to his decision. However, ANTi’s announcement of his possible retirement of Smash 4 can bring his future into darkness until the Smash 5 iteration. Right now, who knows and time will show.

ESAM
PGR Ranked: 21st
Main(s)::4pikachu:
Secondaries::4samus::4mario::4mewtwo::4diddy:
Notable PGR Wins:
  • Mr. R
  • Mistake
  • Lima
  • Fatality
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 7th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 3rd EGLX 2018, 13th EVO Japan 2018
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: ESAM is usually very good Pikachu player. This year, ESAM does certainly well. At GENESIS 5, he was able to take down Mr. R and enter to top 8. In top 8, he faced against Nairo for the first time since an extensive time. Despite ESAM's prediction of him winning against Nairo because Pika vs ZSS MUs is 60-40 MU Pika favor (ESAM's opinion), he wasn't able to challenge Nairo as Nairo made a complete 3-0 against ESAM. From this, ESAM finished 7th place. Next, ESAM enters EVO Japan 2018 where he lost to Sigma, securing 13th. After a brief hiatus, ESAM made a brief return at EGLX 2018. Starting off strong in top 32 winners, ESAM defeated Fatality 3-1 and Mistake 3-0. Nevertheless, ESAM was unfortunate enough to be double eliminated by WaDi, both 1-3 at Winners Semi-Finals and Losers Finals, securing 3rd. ESAM retain pride with his Pikachu and this year clearly shows it. From an impressive 7th place finish at GENESIS 5 to 3rd place at EGLX, ESAM will surely strive his best to become a top 10 player and will show everyone what Pikachu is made of.
 
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J0eyboi

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573
This describes all the D-tiers.
No, not really. Most of them win against at least one top-tier, and the ones that don't have better matchups with mid and high tiers than Ike does.
 
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Crosstails20

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What top tiers do these characters beat?
:4duckhunt: :4link: (:4pit::4darkpit:) :4yoshi: :4shulk: :4rob: :4robinm: :4samus:
Well, you can do some research on Smashboards to find who they do well against, I am not certain of most of their matchups, but I do know that Pit has a 55:45 against Cloud.
 
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Rizen

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Well, you can do some research on Smashboards to find who they do well against, I am not certain of most of their matchups, but I do know that Pit has a 55:45 against Cloud.
I'm not the one claiming "Most of them [D tier] win against at least one top-tier." "Win", not "do well against", ie even or -1.

Can you expand on how the Pit/Cloud MU goes?
 

Crosstails20

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I'm not the one claiming "Most of them [D tier] win against at least one top-tier." "Win", not "do well against", ie even or -1.

Can you expand on how the Pit/Cloud MU goes?
Well with Pit's Arrows of Light all he needs to do is get Cloud off stage and snipe him.
 

Envoy of Chaos

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Well with Pit's Arrows of Light all he needs to do is get Cloud off stage and snipe him.
If having a easily gimped recovery (which while Cloud does have one but it's not as simple as throw him off stage) was all it took to win a MU then a lot more characters in this game would lose a lot more matchups than they really do. I don't know the particulars of the Pit-Cloud matchup up but I can infer based off what I know of the characters that Cloud out neutrals, out advantages and problem even out disadvantages Pit in this matchup. Cloud is faster, has safer options, gets more damage per neutral win, kills much more consistently and easier, lands better, and probably even gets off the ledge easier than Pit can do against Cloud. Pit's lack of a strong kill confirm or even strong kill moves hurts against a character like Cloud and his floatier nature makes landing hell against one of the best jugglers in the game. I can see pit working much harder than cloud does to get damage up and score the kill aside the occasional arrow snipe. I can see this being even but I wouldn't be surprised if Pit was disadvantaged. It helps Pit that he can contest Cloud's range and punish things characters with less range can't pusish as easily and that he doesn't have to approach as often as Cloud (Cloud is going to get Limit more likely than he won't get Limit atleast once a stock and unless your character has a good approach option it's usually not worth trying to force yourself in on Cloud in a haphazard attempt to stop his limit charge.)

Also regarding low tier's top tier MUs I can also see some of them if not going even (which isn't a bad thing) only losing some of them 55-45 which while disadvantaged isn't insurmountable. They probably don't beat any of them aside a few rare exceptions like Kirby-Fox but I don't see it being a wash across the board.
 
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Prince Koopa Jr

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It's a shame, but whatever. It makes things easier when people constantly dash into his jab and fall for the same 50/50 uthrow uair KO over and over.
Its unfortunate that Ike is such an underrepresented character, Ryo puts in major work with the character and shows that hes viable. There are just better options available if you want to play a swordie though, that and Cloud does everything Ike can do but with more potent tools.
 

Prince Koopa Jr

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Of course Ike looks good at low-tier events. Low-tier events don't have Cloud, Bayo, Marth, Shiek, Falcon, Pikachu, or any of those other characters that completely **** the guy up. Ike's matchups against other low tiers are pretty good, but outside there, he starts really struggling. I don't think he wins a single matchup in the top tier (though I could be super wrong on this, please correct me if so).
Ike has a pretty ok matchup spread, but some matchups can feel like an up hill battle (Sonic, Sheik) IMO.
 

Frihetsanka

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Its unfortunate that Ike is such an underrepresented character, Ryo puts in major work with the character and shows that hes viable. There are just better options available if you want to play a swordie though, that and Cloud does everything Ike can do but with more potent tools.
That's a very generous view on viable. Anyway, I don't think Ike's main issue is "there are better swordies". Even if Ike were the best swordie in the game I doubt many people would play him at a top level. You don't see all that many Samus, Wario, or Mr. Game & Watch at top level of play, after all.
 

The_Bookworm

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New C tier event in the MD/VA area. Mason Verus: Mr. E (do not ask me why that is it's name). It is the only PGR'ed event this weekend.

PGR'ed Players
Dabuz:rosalina:
WaDi:4mewtwo:
Mistake:4bayonetta2:
Cosmos:4corrinf:
Mr. E:4lucina::4marth:
6wx:4sonic:

Notable Players
JeBB:4bayonetta:
Remzi:4zss::4sheik:
Logic:4olimar:
Poyo:4kirby:
Serynder:4jigglypuff:
 

Frihetsanka

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Frozen posted a new Corrin MU chart:

Seems pretty in line with the general opinion, with a few exceptions (Diddy even, Sonic + for Corrin, Mewtwo and ZSS - for Corrin). Many Corrin mains seem to think that Captain Falcon is - for Corrin, though that might be recency bias (Cosmos losing to Fatality a lot) combined with how infuriating that matchup can be to play at times. I'm not really sure myself.
 
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The_Bookworm

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Frozen posted a new Corrin MU chart:

Seems pretty in line with the general opinion, with a few exceptions (Diddy even, Sonic + for Corrin, Mewtwo and ZSS - for Corrin). Many Corrin mains seem to think that Captain Falcon is - for Corrin, though that might be recency bias (Cosmos losing to Fatality a lot) combined with how infuriating that matchup can be to play at times. I'm not really sure myself.
Not a bad matchup chart. I noticed that he didn't label any matchups as -3 at all.

Some minor nitpicks: I think Diddy (out-neutrals her pretty well), Sonic (runs miles around her), and Falcon (Fatality did mention that he doesn't lose against Corrin in general) are -1's, and that TLink is +1 (projectiles at least aiding him in the matchup).
 
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Prince Koopa Jr

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Man, I haven't reply to this thread for a long time! Otherwise, I thank you all for helping having a better understanding of Super Smash Bros.!

Today, I will list out 2-21 PGR'd players' results and wins from Umebura T.A.T. to Noods Noods Noods: Oakland Edition. Since SwitchFest is getting near, I will post updates on each players' results whenever SwitchFest is over!
Right now, I will post a separate thread for all results and wins for 2-50 PGR players soon.
Link: https://smashboards.com/threads/2-50-pgr-ranked-players-results-and-summary.454195/

In the mean time, here is the taste of these results! 2-21!

Salem
PGR Ranked: 2nd
Main(s): :4bayonetta:
Secondaries: :4greninja::4samus:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Ally
  • komorikiri
  • Cosmos
  • CaptainZack
  • MVD
  • Fatality
  • tyroy
  • Shoyo James
  • 6WX
  • K9sbruce
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 3rd GENESIS 5, 4th Frostbite 2018, 9th SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 7th Collision XV
C-TIER: N/A

Summary: In 2017, Salem was widely considered one of the greatest Smash 4 players of that year (behind ZeRo) and placed 2nd at PGR. In 2018, Salem started off strong at GENESIS 5; placing 3rd while losing to MKLeo and Mistake. After that, he placed 4th at Frostbite; he was first upset by Fatality and later lost to Tweek. Conclusively, he made a second-rate 9th place at Smash Masters League Vegas by losing to Nairo and Fatality once again. Overall in Q1, Salem attend less frequently than last year (He attends at A-Tier tournaments this year and only one B-Tier) and couldn't win prominent majors yet. At the same time, he hadn't beat any current top 10 players yet. Still, while his performance has declined slightly, he can still make a comeback at any time.


Nairo
PGR Ranked: 3rd
Main(s)::4zss:
Secondaries::4bowser::4diddy:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Salem
  • MKLeo
  • KEN
  • Mistake
  • CaptainZack
  • Marss
  • ESAM
  • MVD
  • 6WX
  • Light
  • Zenyou
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 1st SML: Battle for Vegas, 4th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 1st Niconico Tokaigi 2018, 1st Collision XV
C-TIER: N/A

Summary: Nairo is widely considered to be one of the consistent players out there, and it is no slouch to say that Nairo did take it all. With his trusty Zero-Suit, Nairo made a legitimate start at GENESIS 5 by placing 4th. After his 4th place at GENESIS 5, Nairo traveled to Japan and attend Niconico Tokaigi 2018. Facing MKLeo in Grand Finals, Nairo taken down MKLeo and win the tourney, despite Leo's undisputed dominance at GENESIS 5 and EVO Japan. After his win at Niconico Tokaigi 2018, he had been in a brief pause as he hadn't attend any major tournaments until Smash Masters League Vegas. Nevertheless, Nairo pulled a 1st place finish at Smash Masters League Vegas while beating most of the Bayonetta players such as Mistake, MKLeo, Salem, and CaptainZack. While his brief interruptions prompted people to question about Nairo, Nairo winning Smash Masters proves that even in a short inactivity, Nairo will nevertheless be a threat. From this, it will not be surprising that Nairo will be the best, but he still must fight against dominant players such as MKLeo, Tweek, and Mistake to collect the crown.


MKLeo
PGR Ranked: 4th
Main(s): :4marth::4cloud2:
Secondaries: :4metaknight::4bayonetta::4corrinf:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Salem
  • Nairo
  • Tweek
  • Dabuz
  • Mistake
  • Ally
  • Abadango
  • CaptainZack
  • ANTi
  • Lima
  • Shuton
  • Konga
  • Tsu-
  • Choco
  • Fatality
  • falln
  • Zenyou
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 1st GENESIS 5, 2nd SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 1st EVO Japan 2018, 2nd Niconico Tokaigi 2018, 3rd Midwest Mayhem 11
C-TIER: 1st Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1, 1st Noods Noods Noods: Oakland Edition

Summary
: MKLeo made a critical start in 2018. Leo had won GENESIS 5, EVO Japan 2018 and Umebura Tokaigi Qualifiers. However, after that, he made a minuscule drop by placing 2nd at Niconico Tokaigi 2018 and 3rd at Midwest Mayhem 11 while gotten upset by Zinoto. At Smash Masters League, MKLeo astonished everyone as he made a sudden Bayonetta pick against falln. Into top 8, he made an imminent loss against Nairo and was sent to losers. Into losers, MKLeo defeats Tweek 3-1 while one of the matches was a Bayonetta ditto. Pursuing retaliation, he defeats Fatality in a reverse 3-0 with his Bayonetta and 3-0d Mistake. However, his revenge fails as he was swiftly 3-0d by Nairo, placing 2nd. Throughout this year, MKLeo's performance is consistent and his results are very effective. From this, I believe he is a great contender for being the best player.


Tweek
PGR Ranked: 5th
Main(s): :4bayonetta::4cloud2:
Secondaries: :4dk:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Salem
  • Dabuz
  • Mr. R
  • Elegant
  • WaDi
  • Mistake
  • Ally
  • komorikiri
  • CaptainZack
  • Samsora
  • Lima
  • Darkshad
  • Charlie
  • Fatality
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 2nd Frostbite 2018, 5th SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 1st EGLX 2018
C-TIER: 1st King of the Springs 3, 1st Rise 2018

Summary: Tweek is widely considered one of the most divine Cloud players of all time (Alongside MKLeo and Komorikiri). This time, however, Tweek became one of the most competent Bayonetta players. Tweek hadn't used Cloud that much as he focused on playing his Bayonetta; with that, his dominance continues to grow just like last year. With his first major tournament attendance at Frostbite, he placed 2nd with mostly Bayo. Most surprisingly, he defeated the top Bayo players, Mistake and Salem, with only Bayonetta at top 8. From this unprecedented feat of Tweek's Bayonetta, many argue that Tweek may be the best Bayonetta out there as he was competent to win King of the Springs 3, EGLX 2018 and Rise 2018 with mostly Bayonetta. Finally, at Smash Masters Vegas, he placed 5th while losing to MKLeo which was a respectable loss. From his dominance, we will likely see Tweek seeking his best for being the best Smasher as his dominance with his Bayonetta gives him a boost on wins and results.


Dabuz
PGR Ranked: 6th
Main(s): :rosalina:
Secondaries: :4olimar::4bayonetta:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • MKLeo
  • Tweek
  • Mistake
  • Cosmos
  • Marss
  • ESAM
  • Zinoto
  • tyroy
  • Shoyo James
  • 6WX
  • Light
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 1st Frostbite 2018, 5th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 1st Midwest Mayhem 11, 5th Collision XV
C-TIER: 1st Xenosaga XIII, 1st Overclocked II, 3rd King of the Springs


Summary: Dabuz, the Mr. Consistent of Smash. Despite his cheerful personality, he is a feisty player in Smash. It is no surprise that Dabuz have done well throughout Q1 2018. In GENESIS 5, he placed 5th. In King of Springs 3, he placed 3rd. Since then Dabuz has made a slew of 1st placements at Frostbite 2018, Xenosaga XIII, Midwest Mayhem 11, and Overclocked II. By the surplus of wins at many tournaments he entered, it is by no surprise that Dabuz will be the candidate of being the best Smash 4 in PGR 5.


Larry Lurr
PGR Ranked: 7th
Main(s): :4fox:
Secondaries: :4dk::4diddy:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • VoiD
  • Ally
  • Kirihara
  • Charlie
  • falln
  • Zenyou
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 7th SML: Battle for Vegas, 17th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 5th Niconico Tokaigi 2018, 9th EGLX 2018
C-TIER: 1st Kawaii Kon 2018, 5th No Fun Allowed 2


Summary: Larry Lurr was one of the most effective player out there and a candidate for being the best. However, this year, Larry Lurr wasn't living out well. In GENESIS 5, Larry Lurr made an embarrassing 17th place by losing to Javi and Lima. In Niconico Tokaigi 2018, he was double eliminated by Tsu-, placing 5th. At No Fun Allowed 2, he positioned 5th once again. At Kawaii Kon 2018, he finally placed 1st while defeating VoiD. However, he was placed at an average 9th at EGLX 2018. In Smash Masters League, he was bodied by Cosmos 1-3 and Fatality 0-3, placing 7th. Although his results may be respectable, you need to realize that Larry Lurr is currently placed 7th at the current PGR and having these placements are not well commendable. It is also noted that he currently hasn’t defeated 9 out of 10 PGR Players out there. It is unknown whether Larry Lurr will be able to prompt it back but only time will tell.


KEN
PGR Ranked: 8th
Main(s): :4sonic:
Secondaries: N/A

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • VoiD
  • Shuton
  • Tsu-
  • Choco
  • Kameme
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: N/A
B-TIER: 1st Umebura T.A.T., 3rd Niconico Tokaigi 2018, 5th EVO Japan 2018
C-TIER: 1st Sumabato Tokaigi Qualifier 1, 7th Umebura 31


Summary: Japan has been silent throughout early 2018 as most Japanese players are currently focused on their regional tournaments instead of focusing on their American majors. KEN is one of them as he hasn’t entered any single North American tournaments as of right now. Still, KEN not entering any international majors doesn’t mean that he hasn’t contain any results. His 1st place at Umebura T.A.T. and Sumabato Tokaigi Qualifier, his 3rd place at Niconico Tokaigi 2018, and his 5th place at EVO Japan are very respectable in the Japanese community. He also has plenty wins under his belt such as beating VoiD, Shuton, Choco, and other Japanese players. However, his absence does harm him as these results are not as strong as the American majors. Despite this, KEN could have the chance to return to top 10, but time is growing slim as the next PGR iteration is getting closer.


VoiD
PGR Ranked: 9th
Main(s): :4sheik:
Secondaries: :4fox:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Larry Lurr
  • Choco
  • Fatality
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 9th SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 2nd Kawaii Kon 2018, 9th Niconico Tokaigi 2018
C-TIER: 5th Noods Noods Noods


Summary: VoiD has been quiet throughout early 2018. He hasn’t placed top 8s of any A-Tiers or win any top 10 PGR players right (excluding Larry Lurr). Despite his unusual obscure attendance, his attendance he enters were commendable. His 9th placement SML: Battle for Vegas and Niconico Tokaigi 2018 were pretty good and he does fairly well at C-Tier tournaments. However, his obscurity DOES harm him as the lack of attendance means that he can be outclassed by other players who contain greater results than VoiD’s. Like KEN, VoiD could have the chance to return to top 10 (2GGC: Hyrule Saga and 2GGC: SwitchFest), but of course, time is growing slim as the next PGR iteration is getting closer.


Mr. R
PGR Ranked: 10th
Main(s): :4sheik:
Secondaries: :4cloud2:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Elegant
  • Cosmos
  • Samsora
  • Darkshad
  • K9sbruce
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 5th Frostbite 2018, 9th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 9th EGLX 2018
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: Mr. R does fairly well through early 2018. Despite, Mr. R’s lack of wins on any of the top 10 players, his 9th place at GENESIS 5, 5th at Frostbite, and 9th EGLX are respectable results that should be fairly honored. After his EGLX performance, Mr. R has been notably silent in attendance for unknown reasons. Although Ramin will hopefully return (especially 2GGC: Hyrule Saga rolling in), he needs to be quick to retain his top 10 position as other players such as Fatality, ESAM, Cosmos, and falln, will try to snatch top 10 positions as they accomplished fantastic results.


Elegant
PGR Ranked: 11th
Main(s): :4luigi:
Secondaries: :4zss::4gaw:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Lima
  • Darkshad
  • falln
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 13th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: N/A
C-TIER: 1st No Fun Allowed 2, 2nd Noods Noods Noods, 2nd Rise 2018


Summary: Elegant is widely considered to be the best Luigi out there. His fantastic performance at GameTyrant Expo and 2GG Championship gives him an unimaginable boost to 11th place on the current PGR. However, similar to most PGR players throughout 2018, Elegant hasn’t enter any majors that would allow him to possibly place top 10 or retaining his position. His absence on majors after GENESIS 5, and the lack of major PGR wins throughout 2018 harms him significantly. Elegant, like many others, will need to attend more majors to retain or rise his position, but time will tell.

WaDi
PGR Ranked: 12th
Main(s)::4mewtwo:
Secondaries::4rob:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • ESAM
  • Lima
  • Darkshad
  • Zinoto
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 9th Frostbite 2018, 13th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 2nd EGLX 2018
C-TIER: 5th King of the Springs 3


Summary: Throughout latter 2017, WaDi made the largest jump in any PGR rank history. His fantastic placements in latter 2017 led to rise up from 46th place on PGR v3 to 12th place on PGR v4 (THAT IS A WHOOPING 34 POINTS RISE!). This amazing comeback in performance, alongside his engagement to his girlfriend live at 2GG Championship, makes him one of the most favorable smashers out there. WaDi made a strong performance in 2018 as he placed 13th at GENESIS, 2nd at EGLX 2018, and many other commendable results. However, WaDi doesn’t have any wins outside of top 10 and top 20 and his attendance was slightly more obscure. Despite this, the possibility for WaDi for entering top 10 is high, especially his great achievements in majors recently.


Mistake
PGR Ranked: 13th
Main(s): :4bayonetta2:
Secondaries: :4zss:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Salem
  • Nairo
  • Dabuz
  • VoiD
  • Mr. R
  • WaDi
  • Ally
  • Cosmos
  • ANTi
  • MVD
  • Konga
  • Fatality
  • falln
  • K9sbruce
  • Zenyou
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 2nd GENESIS 5, 3rd Frostbite 2018, 3rd SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 4th EGLX 2018
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: Mistake throughout Q3 of 2017 was astonishing. This Canadian Bayonetta player was able to take down the likes of Salem, CaptainZack, ZeRo, and many others while placing fantastic in tourneys such as 5th at Super Smash Con. Be that as it may, Mistake made a steep decline at Q4 as his performance grew more inconsistent. Some people dubbed him the "one-hit wonder" at one point and predicts that Mistake will never reach his peak performance after his sudden decline. Nonetheless, it was about to change, starting GENESIS 5. In GENESIS 5, he was gotten upset by a Mr. Game & Watch main, Maister and was sent to losers. One may argue that Mistake couldn't even make through top 32 and into top 8, but they are fooled for Mistake had made one of the most impressive losers run in Smash 4 history. Throughout losers, Mistake 2-0d ANTi, 3-2 Konga, 3-0 Javi, 3-1 WaDi, 3-1 K9sbruce, 3-0 falln, 3-2 Dabuz, 3-2 Nairo, and 3-0 Salem. However, his god-like losers run had ended as he lost to MKLeo 3-1. Since he fantastic 2nd place after his risky losers run performance, he still made a superb performance since then as he stood 3rd at Frostbite 2018, 4th at EGLX 2018, and 3rd Smash Master League Vegas. By the looks of his fantastic performance, it will be believable that Mistake could have a chance to win a major someday; and if so, Mistake will be one of the most significant threats as his performance could likely give him potential for being the best


Ally
PGR Ranked: 14th
Main(s): :4mario:
Secondaries: :4diddy:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Mr. R
  • ANTi
  • Konga
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 9th GENESIS 5, 13th SML: Battle for Vegas
B-TIER: 5th EGLX 2018, 9th Niconico Tokaigi 2018
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: Ally in early 2018 performs rather well in comparison to his volatile performance in latter 2017. Able to perform exceptionally well on majors while using a character that is currently debated whether it should be top tier or high tier as a solo main. Despite securing well-earned placings, Ally could not secure many wins against top players, with only 3 PGR’d players he defeated. Despite this, 2018 will be soon be a good year for Ally as he strives to pursue his Mario into great success. Ally will hopefully achieve similar success to his first-half of 2017, however maybe not to an extent of his 2016 peaks (Mario has decline overtime).


Abadango
PGR Ranked: 15th
Main(s): :4bayonetta::4mewtwo:
Secondaries: :4metaknight::rosalina:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • KEN
  • Kameme
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: N/A
B-TIER: 2nd EVO Japan 2018
C-TIER: 3rd Umebura 31, 5th Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 2, 7th Umebura Tokaigi Qualifier 1

Summary
: Abadango’s attendance was silent throughout early 2018. He, like many Japanese fellows, tend to stay in Japan. Despite many Umeburas, Sumabatos, and Karisumas in Japan, Abadango entered only one Umebura. His performance was splendid however, as he was able to secure 2nd place at EVO Japan 2018 with his trusty Bayonetta. Still, his lack of attendance brought him down into obscurity but him entering 2GGC SwitchFest will hopefully brought him back out of the darkness. Will Abadango return to his former top 10 glory? With the fantastic performance at EVO Japan, maybe, but time will tell.


Komorikiri
PGR Ranked: 16th
Main(s): :4cloud2::4sonic:
Secondaries: :4feroy:

Notable PGR Wins 2018:
  • Samsora
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 7th Frostbite 2018
B-TIER: 7th EVO Japan 2018
C-TIER: 5th Sumabato 24, 7th Sumabato 23


Summary: komorikiri attendance in Japan was slightly less obscure in comparison to KEN and Abadango. He made respectable placings at Sumabatos and placed very well at EVO Japan 2018. Komorikiri was one of the few Japanese players to currently enter a major outside of Japan, which was Frostbite 2018. Komorikiri certainly does well at Frostbite but that is the end of his ability to enter international majors until SwitchFest. Of course, komorikiri will try to show everyone his performance at SwitchFest.


Cosmos
PGR Ranked: 17th
Main(s): :4corrinf:
Secondaries: N/A

Notable PGR Wins:
  • Tweek
  • Larry Lurr
  • WaDi
  • Samsora
  • Shoyo James
  • AC
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 5th SML: Battle for Vegas, 7th Frostbite 2018
B-TIER: N/A
C-TIER: 4th King of the Springs 3


Summary: Since the Big House 7, Cosmos is widely considered to be the most divine Corrin player out there, able to take down the likes of ZeRo, Salem, and many others. This year is a prominent year for Cosmos. He placed 7th at Frostbite 2018 while beating WaDi and Shoyo James. He was unfortunately lost to Fatality 0-3 and Mr. R 3-2. After Frostbite, Cosmos attend King of the Springs 3 where he secured 4th, losing to Fatality once again. Finally, he entered Smash Masters Vegas where he placed 5th, losing to Fatality 3-0 once again. Although Cosmos have generated commendable results in Q1 2018, he has a hard time against Fatality and he hadn't enter many tournaments. Otherwise, Cosmos's results are good enough to secure Corrin's status as a high/top tier character.


CaptainZack
PGR Ranked: 18th
Main(s): :4bayonetta2:
Secondaries: :4peach::4wiifit:

Notable PGR Wins:
  • VoiD
  • Charlie
  • dyr
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 7th SML: Battle for Vegas, 17th Frostbite 2018
B-TIER: 4th Midwest Mayhem 11
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: CaptainZack seems to performance well in 2018. While having a rough start by placing 17th at Frostbite 2018, CaptainZack seemed to pull his performance and improve it after Frostbite by securing top 8 placements at Midwest Mayhem 11 and SML: Battle for Vegas.


Marss
PGR Ranked: 19th
Main(s): :4zss:
Secondaries: :4falcon::4lucario:

Notable PGR Wins:
  • Salem
  • Tweek
  • Samsora
  • Mr. E
  • Light
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 17th Frostbite 2018
B-TIER: 3rd Collision XV
C-TIER: 2nd Overclocked II


Summary: Marss is notorious for his uncommon tournament appearances, especially 2017. Despite his tournament appearance, Marss place exceptionally such as his 5th place at 2GGC: Civil War and 2nd place at Big House 7. These extremely successful yet uncommon tournament attendance makes him, in my opinion, the PPMD of Smash (in terms of how both are uncommon and successful at the same time). In early 2018, Marss handle rather well in his uncommon tournament appearances. Having a decent start at Frostbite, he made exceptionally well at Overclocked II and Collision XV while beating the likes of Salem, Light, and Tweek. Right now, Marss may seem to be an unlikely contender for top 20/top 15, but like before, Marss can make an explosive comeback.


ANTi
PGR Ranked: 20th
Main(s): :4mario:
Secondaries: :4zss::4cloud::4metaknight::4sonic:

Notable PGR Wins:
  • K9sbruce
  • falln
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: N/A
B-TIER: 7th EGLX 2018
C-TIER: 2nd Noods Noods Noods: Oakland Edition


Summary: ANTi starts his performance in early 2018 by placing 7th at EGLX 2018. After that, ANTi went on placing 2nd at Noods Noods Noods: Oakland Edition. ANTi’s future can be bright but it is up to his decision. However, ANTi’s announcement of his possible retirement of Smash 4 can bring his future into darkness until the Smash 5 iteration. Right now, who knows and time will show.

ESAM
PGR Ranked: 21st
Main(s)::4pikachu:
Secondaries::4samus::4mario::4mewtwo::4diddy:
Notable PGR Wins:
  • Mr. R
  • Mistake
  • Lima
  • Fatality
Notable Placements in 2018:
A-TIER: 7th GENESIS 5
B-TIER: 3rd EGLX 2018, 13th EVO Japan 2018
C-TIER: N/A


Summary: ESAM is usually very good Pikachu player. This year, ESAM does certainly well. At GENESIS 5, he was able to take down Mr. R and enter to top 8. In top 8, he faced against Nairo for the first time since an extensive time. Despite ESAM's prediction of him winning against Nairo because Pika vs ZSS MUs is 60-40 MU Pika favor (ESAM's opinion), he wasn't able to challenge Nairo as Nairo made a complete 3-0 against ESAM. From this, ESAM finished 7th place. Next, ESAM enters EVO Japan 2018 where he lost to Sigma, securing 13th. After a brief hiatus, ESAM made a brief return at EGLX 2018. Starting off strong in top 32 winners, ESAM defeated Fatality 3-1 and Mistake 3-0. Nevertheless, ESAM was unfortunate enough to be double eliminated by WaDi, both 1-3 at Winners Semi-Finals and Losers Finals, securing 3rd. ESAM retain pride with his Pikachu and this year clearly shows it. From an impressive 7th place finish at GENESIS 5 to 3rd place at EGLX, ESAM will surely strive his best to become a top 10 player and will show everyone what Pikachu is made of.
Really appreciate you taking the time to post all this information about the players and their characters Jon.
 

ARGHETH

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 9, 2015
Messages
1,395
Not a bad matchup chart. I noticed that he didn't label any matchups as -3 at all.

Some minor nitpicks: I think Diddy (out-neutrals her pretty well), Sonic (runs miles around her), and Falcon (Fatality did mention that he doesn't lose against Corrin in general) are -1's, and that TLink is +1 (projectiles at least aiding him in the matchup).
Nah, Corrin does pretty well against Sonic. Sonics and Corrins seem to agree on even to losing for Sonic, based on what I've heard and MU charts.
 

The-Technique

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Frozen posted a new Corrin MU chart:

Seems pretty in line with the general opinion, with a few exceptions (Diddy even, Sonic + for Corrin, Mewtwo and ZSS - for Corrin). Many Corrin mains seem to think that Captain Falcon is - for Corrin, though that might be recency bias (Cosmos losing to Fatality a lot) combined with how infuriating that matchup can be to play at times. I'm not really sure myself.
Fatality has a good record in general vs Corrins. I think even is fair since both characters body eachother hard once they land a hit.

I think if someone were to suggest that Falcon wins the matchup though, that would definitely be recency bias.
 
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Frihetsanka

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Location
Sweden
Not a bad matchup chart. I noticed that he didn't label any matchups as -3 at all.

Some minor nitpicks: I think Diddy (out-neutrals her pretty well), Sonic (runs miles around her), and Falcon (Fatality did mention that he doesn't lose against Corrin in general) are -1's, and that TLink is +1 (projectiles at least aiding him in the matchup).
Corrin actually does really well against Sonic, surprisingly enough. Sure, Sonic can punish pin easily, but he generally won't get a very hard punish. Meanwhile, Corrin has a much easier time killing than Sonic does, and Sonic can deal with spindash shenanigans fairly well. I think it's pretty even, but more of an advantage for Corrin than Sonic, so it could be +1 (likely just "even" though). So, Corrin wins or it's even.

I agree that Diddy Kong is likely -1, but it could be even, I suppose.

I think if someone were to suggest that Falcon wins the matchup though, that would definitely be recency bias.
That's what I said. It should be noted that while Frozen thinks the MU is even, he also thinks the Corrin player has to really abuse their advantage state against Falcon, which can be very stressful for the Corrin player. Falcon seems to have better comeback mechanics than Corrin does in the MU (watch Cosmos vs Fatality, in some games Cosmos was winning and then bam, Falcon happened).
 

Ordeaux26

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Messages
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For Fun I Am Going To Look Most Hype Smash 4 Set Of 2018 Per Tournament I Will Keep Updating Every Time There Is a Major Tournament And If You Have Your Own Opinions Share Them Here Is My List Also I Can Include Both Winners and Grand Finals If They Have The Same Two Players All The Sets And Also I Have My Own Forum For This But I Decided To Post It Here

Genesis 5 Falln Vs Ally Losers Top 12

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iar6O_L2AhI&t=38s&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US&index=1

Evo Japan 2018 MkLeo Vs Abadango Winners/Grand Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLdWRb0DvEA&index=3&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT_hlQomFQQ&index=4&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US

Frostbite 2018 Salem Vs Fatality Winners Top 32

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4cGGAFZ4Uw&index=2&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US

King Of Springs 3 Fatality Vs Cosmos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_DF9RuLLJo&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US&index=5

Kawaii Kon 2018 Larry Lurr Vs Void Winners/Grand Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv5OW1OT_vU&index=6&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-DW7YNp4fI&index=7&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US

Midwest Mayhem 11 Mkleo Vs Dabuz Winners Finals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNY9WBrZjAU&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US&index=8

EGLX 2018 Samsora Vs Tweek And Lima Vs ESAM I Cant Decide

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWWfBRsslG4&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US&index=9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1tieZCoesY&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US&index=10

Smash Masters League Battle For Vegas Mkleo Vs Nairo Winners Semifinals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNuMCYYgQF0&index=11&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US

Collision XV Dabuz Vs Marss Losers Quaterfinals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLEH4BYxjj4&index=12&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US

Noods Noods Noods Okland Edition Falln Vs Konga Losers Semifinals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77684siqebI&index=13&list=PLOKeMBSdKPVmxuikl1q7K7_fX6OGfb4US
 

Minordeth

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 14, 2014
Messages
921
On Ike:

His saving grace is that he hits hard in a game of lightweight top tiers, and has an actual ground game. If he had Corrin’s dash to shield, and better traction, he’d fare a bit better.

Sheik makes him a sad panda tho. Fox isn’t fun, since Ike can’t outbox him, and Ike’s OoS is limited to grab and jab, so Fox gets almost free shield pressure.

Unlike the other heavies, he doesn’t get totally trashed by Rosa. And he can do alright against Cloud, Sonic, and yes, Bayo. ZSS is less awful than Sheik. Mario and Marth are fine.

I... don’t remember seeing a whole lot of top Mewtwo/Ike. I guess theoretically that MU could really suck. Mewtwo is kind of an anti-swordie swordie.
 

MarioManTAW

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
843
I... don’t remember seeing a whole lot of top Mewtwo/Ike. I guess theoretically that MU could really suck. Mewtwo is kind of an anti-swordie swordie.
Some potentially notable Mewtwo vs Ike sets:
Rich Brown vs SM https://ssbworld.com/watch/?v=uaYw1KYFLjg
Deathorse vs San https://ssbworld.com/watch/?v=FexaLkSU92k
Abadango vs Ryo (game 1 only, Ryo played Roy for the rest of the set) https://ssbworld.com/watch/?v=_rYPWXDtFKE
Mew2King vs Ryo https://ssbworld.com/watch/?v=lBYIkXN9cmw
 

MERPIS

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Location
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Catboog
On Ike:

His saving grace is that he hits hard in a game of lightweight top tiers, and has an actual ground game. If he had Corrin’s dash to shield, and better traction, he’d fare a bit better.

Sheik makes him a sad panda tho. Fox isn’t fun, since Ike can’t outbox him, and Ike’s OoS is limited to grab and jab, so Fox gets almost free shield pressure.

Unlike the other heavies, he doesn’t get totally trashed by Rosa. And he can do alright against Cloud, Sonic, and yes, Bayo. ZSS is less awful than Sheik. Mario and Marth are fine.

I... don’t remember seeing a whole lot of top Mewtwo/Ike. I guess theoretically that MU could really suck. Mewtwo is kind of an anti-swordie swordie.
Mewtwo is workable but Ike can really get ****ed up by shadow ball shenanigans and dtilt shenanigans.
On the topic of Mewtwo:
I don't feel like people give offstage mewtwo as much credit as they should, nair works wonders at gimping characters since it basically drags them down with you and pops them away from the stage or sometimes under it, it also catches many recoveries since its apparently disjointed, bair also works wonders with his double jump, though not as well as nair, fair can be good but it only lasts 3 frames.
 

Nah

Smash Champion
Joined
May 31, 2015
Messages
2,163
someone please explain to me why suggesting that Falcon might have a slight advantage vs Corrin is "just recency bias" while suggesting that Corrin might have a slight advantage vs Bayonetta from little more than Cosmos's track record vs Bayos in the past couple of months is not recency bias

also does the fact that no one has yet commented on how Frozen listed Mario as even mean that y'all finally got over the "Corrin hard counters Mario" train of thought?
 
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Das Koopa

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Writing Team
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Messages
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3DS FC
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MARCH DATA WRITE-UP






Monthly character movements

Bayonetta +1.9%
Ryu +0.6%
Fox +0.5%
Diddy Kong +0.3%
Sonic +0.1%
Mario +0.1%
Zero Suit Samus +0.1%
Peach +0.1%
Captain Falcon +0.1%
Wario +0.1%

Mewtwo = 3.2%
Corrin = 2.3%
Luigi = 1.7%
Toon Link = 1.4%
Shulk = 0.8%

Rosalina & Luma -0.1%
Lucina -0.1%
Greninja -0.1%
Mega Man -0.1%
Mr. Game & Watch -0.1%
Pikachu -0.1%
Marth -0.1%
Ness -0.2%
R.O.B. -0.2%
Donkey Kong -0.2%
Ike -0.3%
Sheik -0.3%
Meta Knight -0.3%
Other -0.3%
Duck Hunt -0.4%
Samus -0.4%
Cloud -1.0%

I'll be covering all the major changes near the start of May since Phase 7 ends this month. There's not a whole lot that's gone down this particular month, but the short of March's movements:

-Bayonetta is sitting at 11.7%.

-Cloud declined to 4th by a reasonable margin.

-Fox has a case for 5th best in the game at this point.

-A number of characters have pretty woefully declined in spite of their tiering position. Villager, Donkey Kong, Olimar, Bowser, and Lucario appear to suffer the most.

-Ryu has climbed into the top 10 by a good amount.

-Duck Hunt remains a viable pick for Upper Tier at this point, albeit he declined a few spots in March.

-Ness has recovered quite a bit as of late and sits in the upper tier range.

-Lucina + Marth collectively puts Marth as part of a Top 12 that has a large gap to the 13th best, data wise (Corrin.)

-Bowser Jr. has had an okay Phase, probably his best in recent memory. That's not saying much, but still.

Bayonetta: 587.5
Sheik: 359.5
Diddy Kong: 353.5
Cloud: 321
Fox: 300.75
Sonic: 242
Mario: 232
Ryu: 230.5
Zero Suit Samus: 227
Rosalina & Luma: 195.5
Mewtwo: 161.25
Corrin: 118.25
Marth: 107.5
Meta Knight: 107
Pikachu: 97
Peach: 92.5
Luigi: 83.5
Captain Falcon: 82.5
Ness: 74
Toon Link: 70
Greninja: 65
Duck Hunt: 63
Lucina: 53
Mega Man: 52.5
Wario: 48
Samus: 47.5
Mr. Game & Watch: 47
R.O.B.: 43.75
Shulk: 42.5
Donkey Kong: 41.5
Ike: 41
Lucario: 39.5
Yoshi: 36.5
Villager: 36
Olimar: 35.5
Pac-Man: 35
Bowser: 34
Link: 29
Little Mac: 28
Lucas: 25
Roy: 20.75
Charizard: 18
Wii Fit Trainer: 16
Zelda: 15
Pit: 15
Robin: 14
Palutena: 10
Falco: 10
Bowser Jr.: 8
Jigglypuff: 7
Dr. Mario: 6.5
Ganondorf: 4
King Dedede: 1
Kirby: 1
Mii Brawler: 1
Mii Gunner: 1

Results Thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/tournament-placing-database-scoring-project.437773/

Methodology: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Jks0EtmeNemKsm2rXzYf8RB3D43-Ru23ypx_DOnQPDY/edit?usp=sharing

Previous Month: https://smashboards.com/threads/4br...insight-analysis.452108/page-82#post-21970285
 

MERPIS

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Ok, what the actual hell is keeping Sheik so high? VoiD hardly gets top 8 in anything that isn't B tier or lower and the only real big (top 8) placement Mr. R has gotten as of recent is Frostbite
Meanwhile Sonic is still 6th best and that'll probably never change because god hates us
 
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Lukingordex

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What top tiers do these characters beat?
:4yoshi:
For Yoshi, literally none. His best top tier MU is Mario which is even and i personally believe Marth is also even but not many people agree with me on that one.
If we include the B tier, he beats Falcon, Peach and maybe Luigi
 
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Frihetsanka

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Apr 26, 2016
Messages
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Location
Sweden
someone please explain to me why suggesting that Falcon might have a slight advantage vs Corrin is "just recency bias" while suggesting that Corrin might have a slight advantage vs Bayonetta from little more than Cosmos's track record vs Bayos in the past couple of months is not recency bias
While I personally think Corrin-Bayo is even, people (like Ryuga) actually used arguments why Bayonetta beat Corrin before Cosmos went on a "Destroy most Bayonettas" run.

also does the fact that no one has yet commented on how Frozen listed Mario as even mean that y'all finally got over the "Corrin hard counters Mario" train of thought?
I don't think I've ever seen anyone put Mario as worse than slight disadvantage for Corrin. In general, Mario-Corrin is seen as either even or slight Corrin advantage, and in this case Frozen went with even. Nothing really out of the ordinary.

Ryu is a very interesting character. On paper, he seems worse than characters like Marth, Corrin, Mewtwo, Rosalina, and Zero Suit Samus, yet his results seem to be better than those characters. I wonder why that is?
 

DunnoBro

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What top tiers do these characters beat?
:4duckhunt: :4link: (:4pit::4darkpit:) :4yoshi: :4shulk: :4rob: :4robinm: :4samus:
Duck hunt does well vs Ryu (doesn't care about focus at all. Can is multi hit for some reason so Ryu can't land), probably beats Peach. (Negates float) Marth maybe, destroys him and neutral and dthrow frame traps work well, but high level marth edgeguards make it scary. MK also maybe, for similar reasons. MK gets destroyed in neutral and actually is pretty easy to kill because his multiple, but short jumps make it awkward for him to dodge the can while landing. But... Dash attack and floaties. Bluh.

Maybe Corrin too, but I can't really quantify why. Just feels good. Though I feel like optimized counter useage would tip it back in their favor.

Samus vs Corrin isn't bad for Samus (even or slight loss, probably). I wouldn't call Corrin a top tier, but I know some people do.

Duck Hunt supposedly goes even with Diddy Kong, according to some people.
Just MVD probably, since he knows both chars. Definitely not even imo. Diddy's neutral edges out due to monkey flip beating all DH's buffered neutral options safely. And getting off the ledge is hard too since DH has no extra options. Feels like a solid 60:40 to me.
 
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MarioManTAW

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
843
someone please explain to me why suggesting that Falcon might have a slight advantage vs Corrin is "just recency bias" while suggesting that Corrin might have a slight advantage vs Bayonetta from little more than Cosmos's track record vs Bayos in the past couple of months is not recency bias
I'd say Falcon > Corrin seems accurate based on http://ssbworld.com
Fatality 4-0 in (recorded) sets over Cosmos. SETHsational has a win on Ryuga (only recorded set I saw). Cashmere 3-0 in sets over Ryo (4-0 in games vs Ryo's Corrin).
I agree though that Corrin > Bayo may be a bit of a stretch, although there is definitely a case for the matchup being at least even. At the top level, there's Cosmos' aforementioned record vs Bayos, and MKLeo has used Corrin successfully vs Bayos. At lower levels, there are the likes of Promaelia (from what I could tell, did well against saj) and Yura (seemingly even record vs Chag, a win on 9B).
 
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