Official 4BR Tier List v2.0 - Competitive Impressions

[TDK]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OirDaXLhiI

Hyper takes a set from Fatality with Solo Roy.

How can someone be so good without owning a Wii U? (Hyper doesn't own a Wii U)

 

[Das Koopa]

Chubu Round Robin Invitational

1st: SH (8-1)
2nd: Sigma (7-2)
3rd: Earth (6-3)
4th: ikep (5-4)
5th: Masha (5-4)
6th: DIO (4-5)
7th: NGA (4-5)
8th: NAI (3-6)
9th: Fuwa (3-6)
10th: Tsu~ (0-9)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

's top level matchup record from February 2016 to now against

Spoiler

Abadango 3-0 Ned (Ignition 28)
Abadango 3-2 Ned (Ignition 28)
Abadango 2-1 Mew2King (Smash & Splash 2)
Abadango 2-0 Z-Tan (Waseda Festival 2016)
komorikiri 3-2 Abadango (2GGT: ZeRo Saga)
Mao 2-1 Abadango (SGC 2017)
Abadango 3-1 Tweek (GENESIS 4)
RAIN 2-1 Rich Brown (CEO 2016)
komorikiri 2-0 Rich Brown (EVO 2016)
SS 2-1 Ric Brown (2GGT: KTAR Saga)
ANTi 3-1 Rich Brown (SSC 2016)
komorikiri 3-1 Rich Brown (MSM 67)
MKLeo 3-1 Rich Brown (GENESIS Saga)
WaDi 2-0 Seibrik (SSC 2016)
Ned 2-1 Demitus (Endgame)
MewSquared 3-0 Mew2King (Super Bit Wars 4)
Mew2King 2-1 Leo Heart

Mewtwo - 7
Cloud - 10

Roughly a 59% win rate for Cloud.

I think it'd be a good idea to look at the match count as well given the amount of times this matchup has happened over the last year - it's currently 28:26 in Cloud's favor if my counting is correct. And depending on how the secondary characters you listed have performed, the match count between Cloud and Mewtwo might be to the match exactly even. With a sample size of over 50 matches shared between no less than 17 players we're dealing with a set of information that's just about as representative as can realistically be and if projected to a set of a hundred games it may actually add up to be literally exactly a 50:50 matchup.

As crazy unlikely as that may seem, the numbers are backed up so well that it's hard to argue otherwise. This might just be the perfectly even matchup.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Almost all the human limb bairs are crazy.

What about DK?

 

[Yikarur]

Beast 7 has a Shulk in Winner Semis.
This is the biggest Smash 4 tournament europe has had so far, but it's pretty unstacked. A lot of top players are missing sadly

 

[Deleted member]

M2-0's Gluttony , sending him to Losers at BEAST 7. He's gotta face iStudying next.

Yikarur M is considered to be one of if not the best player in Sweden, I think he would've done well regardless. His aggression with Shulk is amazing.

 

[420quickscoper]

And speaking of Gluttony, he was just eliminated 2-0 by KillerJawz !

 

[Deleted member]

And speaking of Gluttony, he was just eliminated 2-0 by KillerJawz .

KJ's a sick ass Mewtwo, also glad to see him getting out more often.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Both Shulk and Mewtwo are awful matchups for Wario.

 

[HoSmash4]

Both Shulk and Mewtwo are awful matchups for Wario.

This. Matchup/bracket luck is so important.

 

[valakmtnsmash4]

This. Matchup/bracket luck is so important.

Except Scarhi (best shulk in france) has played gluttony many times in locals, regionals in france. Gluttony usually beats scarhi at all of these events. It's just that M had a completely different playstyle than scarhi and gluttony was not used to that.

 

[Jaguar360]

Smash Valley V (69 entrants)

1. Wadi
2. MVD
3. Sinji
4. Biddy
5. Volt
5.Weezy
7. Midnight
7. NessJesus

Midnight was also using Greninja and Lucario, though I don't know if his Lucario won any games.

BEAST 7 top 8 looks nothing like I imagined it would. Definitely would have expected to see at least 3 of Glutonny, Meru, J Miller, and Long0uw in there. Raziek also out super early losing the Cloud-Yoshi matchup of all things.

 

[DungeonMaster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OirDaXLhiI
Hyper takes a set from Fatality with Solo Roy.

Really nice set, and considerably more hype than the current top tier sets I've seen in recent memory. The game needs one or two more rounds of good patches to push to tournament viable more characters and then it'll be a blast to watch as a spectator sport (my opinion). We'll see with switch, of course.

 

[TDK]

M 3-2 iStudying

 

[Deleted member]

BIG UPSET

M 3-2 over iStudying , sending him to Loser's

 

[Das Koopa]

M absolutely shredded iStudying game 3 and 5

 

[Frihetsanka]

I guess Shulk has some "potential", eh?

 

[MistressRemilia]

I guess Shulk has some "potential", eh?

If we got by PGR stats, there isn't much that makes Beast 7 more noteworthy than MM Saga.
Guess what happened in MM Saga? Falco in Top 8 with upsets done on Top 50 players as well.
So yeah, don't get too hype about it, even though it's nice, it's nothing groundbreaking. Shulk, much like most characters of this game, is certainly capable of doing such things given the bracket is kind enough to him.
Though it is certainly a nice win/placement to have, M doing some work is nice to see.

Tl;Dr Take M's placement at Beast 7 with a grain of salt.

 

[Deleted member]

If we got by PGR stats, there isn't much that makes Beast 7 more noteworthy than MM Saga.
Guess what happened in MM Saga? Falco in Top 8 with upsets done on Top 50 players as well.
So yeah, don't get too hype about it, even though it's nice, it's nothing groundbreaking. Shulk, much like most characters of this game, is certainly capable of doing such things given the bracket is kind enough to him.
Though it is certainly a nice win/placement to have, M doing some work is nice to see.

Tl;Dr Take M's placement at Beast 7 with a grain of salt.

AC also used MK quite a bit at Midwest Mayhem Saga, while M is a solo Shulk.

There's also taking into consideration that Shulk has been getting decent results for a while now.

 

[Frihetsanka]

If we got by PGR stats, there isn't much that makes Beast 7 more noteworthy than MM Saga.
Guess what happened in MM Saga? Falco in Top 8 with upsets done on Top 50 players as well.
So yeah, don't get too hype about it, even though it's nice, it's nothing groundbreaking. Shulk, much like most characters of this game, is certainly capable of doing such things given the bracket is kind enough to him.
Though it is certainly a nice win/placement to have, M doing some work is nice to see.

Tl;Dr Take M's placement at Beast 7 with a grain of salt.

I think Shulk has the potential to be a high-mid tier character. He's not high tier and definitely not top tier, but he's still a pretty decent character. I think Shulk should certainly be higher than 44th place, probably somewhere around 30-37th or so.

 

[Deleted member]

I think Shulk has the potential to be a high-mid tier character. He's not high tier and definitely not top tier, but he's still a pretty decent character. I think Shulk should certainly be higher than 44th place, probably somewhere around 30-37th or so.

I definitely think 44th is too low for his accomplishments, along with the fact he has a pretty alright matchup spread overall.

I'd rank him around 38-35th. Low-mid at absolute best. This is a great win, but the character's flaws still prevent him from being much better.

 

[Peppermint1201]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OirDaXLhiI

Hyper takes a set from Fatality with Solo Roy.

How can someone be so good without owning a Wii U? (Hyper doesn't own a Wii U)

Pink Fresh didn't own a Wii U for the first year or so of the game; neither did LOE1 iirc. If your fundamentals are good and you have enough nearby locals you can definitely pull it off.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

BEAST 7 may not be a particularly stacked tournament but there's no denying that wins against Glutonny and iStudying are worth something. They are the best players of their respective characters after all.

 

[jet56]

http://challonge.com/dlssb4singles decent sized event happened in AZ, although i wouldn't expect it to be super noteworthy or anything:

Dreamleague (44 entrants):

1. Strozai
2. Luhtie
3. Saiki
4. Skylar

biggest thing to take away from Beast 7 is M's performance obviously. i have always believed that shulk is much better than a low tier.

 

[TDK]

BEAST 7 (304 Entrants) (Europe)

1st: Mr. R
2nd: Cyve
3rd: M
4th: iStudying
5th: S1
5th: KillerJawz
7th: El_Pitikla
7th: Aperture
9th: Meru
9th: Robo~Luigi
9th: J.Miller
9th: Glutonny
13th: ZartZu
13th: El Bardo
13th: LoNg0uw
13th: Sim-Max

Mr. R went Cloud for one game against Cyve, where he won quite handily.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Do you only list characters people lost with? M went Sheik one game against Cyve, though he lost that game.

 

[MistressRemilia]

BEAST 7 may not be a particularly stacked tournament but there's no denying that wins against Glutonny and iStudying are worth something. They are the best players of their respective characters after all.

This is true for Glutonny, but i'd say Some is the better Greninja out there.

 

[TDK]

Do you only list characters people lost with? M went Sheik one game against Cyve, though he lost that game.

I only list characters people at least took a game with. Since M's Sheik didn't take a game, I didn't count it. Same with KillerJawz' Robin.

 

[Deleted member]

I like how people are undermining M's accomplishment yet if it was somebody like a Roy main people would be all over him.

 

[Das Koopa]

who's undermining M

 

[Deleted member]

who's undermining M

Implications that he only got as far as he did due to "bracket luck" or whatever.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

This is true for Glutonny, but i'd say Some is the better Greninja out there.

I guess istudy's position as the #1 Greninja main isn't undisputed anymore at this point. Fair enough.

 

[Delzethin]

I like how people are undermining M's accomplishment yet if it was somebody like a Roy main people would be all over him.

That's the curse of going against the grain. If you do well with a character people think isn't supposed to be good, they look for any reason to write it off.

I wish I knew a way to get them to not dismiss this kind of thing, because this is a big deal that should be treated as such. Goes to show than in Smash 4, even the (seemingly) more lackluster characters still have some useful tools.

 

[Yonder]

BEAST 7 (304 Entrants) (Europe)

1st: Mr. R
2nd: Cyve
3rd: M
4th: iStudying
5th: S1
5th: KillerJawz
7th: El_Pitikla
7th: Aperture
9th: Meru
9th: Robo~Luigi
9th: J.Miller
9th: Glutonny
13th: ZartZu
13th: El Bardo
13th: LoNg0uw
13th: Sim-Max

Mr. R went Cloud for one game against Cyve, where he won quite handily.

There are so many pocket Cloud users that uh...They should all get trench coats, idk insert clever joke here but it's absolutely insane how many notable players have one.

 

[MistressRemilia]

Implications that he only got as far as he did due to "bracket luck" or whatever.

Just kind of don't want people to go bat sh*t insane about the whole thing.
How people reacted to AC's placement was respectable, reminding people that Falco, while not very good, isn't hopeless & certainly capable of doing such things as beating good representatives of good charas.
The same thing should be applied to Shulk here, only that it hasn't been the first time: Nicko gets good results in Socal with the occasional strong upset on very good players, Kome is on the rise with some very strong wins on some of the biggest japanese threats while Masha is still doing quite decent using Shulk, and M is only getting better as time goes on.
That's kind of why Shulk is indeed better than Falco, because these achievements have happened more frequently, solidifying both Shulk's ability to compete against some of this game's better players, and also having some good matchups against relevant characters in the top half side of the tier list. ( You don't get a win on Shuton or Komorikiri that free: Along with the Shulk theory that was already saying that Olimar & Cloud were decent matchup for the Monado Master )
Despite all of this, M's losses highlight Shulk's issues and why he isn't that much more higher than characters like Falco: Most top tiers end up being an issue: With M getting 3-0d against a Sheik & a Diddy, it should be taken as a reminder that bracket should be taken into account when it comes to the success of Shulk in tournament, or of almost any character in the lower half of the cast.

Not trying to undermine M's successful run at Beast 7, it was indeed quite a good run, and as i just said, it solidifies everything i've said about Shulk being able to be a tournament threat at a certain scale. I'm just trying to add on constructive criticism on what should be remembered about this run & how it will affect one's judgement about Shulk. My opinion of that is that: It is yet another good placing for Shulk, solidifying Shulk's spot as one of the better characters in the lower part in the cast, because he can achieve a certain amount of consistent placings with different mains all around the world, however, not reaching the highest spots in tours is often due to a rather harsh loss against some top tiers, showcasing Shulk's poor top tier matchups as a whole, so while the character has been able to place in tours, placements so far haven't been as high as you'd expect from a character higher up because Shulk has issues with several top tiers characters, simple as that really.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If we got by PGR stats, there isn't much that makes Beast 7 more noteworthy than MM Saga.
Guess what happened in MM Saga? Falco in Top 8 with upsets done on Top 50 players as well.
So yeah, don't get too hype about it, even though it's nice, it's nothing groundbreaking. Shulk, much like most characters of this game, is certainly capable of doing such things given the bracket is kind enough to him.
Though it is certainly a nice win/placement to have, M doing some work is nice to see.

Tl;Dr Take M's placement at Beast 7 with a grain of salt.

This is the most important post about the subject matter.

Have M pull it off in another 2-3 tournaments of this size, over the next several months, then we can talk about Shulk being underrated. Until then, its just another low tier having a surprise showing. Which happens a lot in this game.

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Gee, this game sure has a gigantic mid tier, doesn't it?

 

[The-Technique]

There are so many pocket Cloud users that uh...They should all get trench coats, idk insert clever joke here but it's absolutely insane how many notable players have one.

Mr. R's Cloud is not a pocket.

 

[TDK]

NOLA Gaming Fest (64 Players) (Louisiana)
1st: Samsora
2nd: Captain Zack
3rd: Creatious
4th: Hoodlife

Also, ZeRo's newest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHAEY6QbuhQ

 

[Das Koopa]

Mr. R's Cloud is not a pocket.

it's sure not a great secondary if he's getting 2 stocked by Ranai on Lylat with it though