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Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

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Emblem Lord

The Legendary Lord
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If you can name me more than 2 active notable Pit mains besides Earth I'll give you a cookie. The character can't get much results if nobody notable plays him. It's the same scenario for Ryu isn't it?


When you compare his dtilt to one of the best in the game of course it's going to look terrible. Admittedly its not the best dtilt but it isn't as useless as you think. It works decently with Pit's moveset, it pops them up into the air where he wants them, and it's not hard to catch most character's landings between dash attack, fsmash, side b, etc (for obvious reasons).
-13 ain't that bad if you actually considered the huge range you said it has. Shield drop is 7 frames that means the opponent has 6 frames to try and punish. How many characters have a move that fast and covers the distance of a spaced dtilt? And then take into account how quick it is, how many people can react to punish it in time if possible in a real game? (insert beefysmashdude's video here).


It is safe like dtilt when spaced. Admittedly the disjoint itself isn't that big, but Pit leans out then back in when he uses the move, creating alot of space that few if any characters can punish and even then they have an extremely small window to react to it.. No you wouldn't use fsmash in any situation where you would use ftilt. Ftilt lasts 4 frames, longer than both marth and ike's ftilts. It's great for catching people on the ledge (whether it be the normal getup, jump, etc) safely and is decent poke. Ftilt can also be used to hipcheck as it pushes people in front of Pit. In Dark Pit's case ftilt sets up into a techchase scenario with the electroshock and guarantees a followup on quite a few characters.....god forbid they chose to roll to the ledge. Fsmash is better for catching landings and for punishes it only lasts 2 frames.


I wouldn't trade Pit's dash attack for MK's or his dash grab for Falcons. They all use their tools in their own way. Falcon's dash grab is great and all but it would totally screw me up trying to get a dash grab midrange because of how fast he slides/runs. In falcons case it's great because it lets him get in and get it done. He doesn't have disjoints to play it midrange as well as Pit. MK's dash attack is great but Pit would not get nearly as much out of it as MK. I'd rather keep my disjointed dash attack to deal with say....an opponent landing with an aerial.


Fair, Nair, and Bair are all safe on shield when spaced. Bair being -5, Nair and Fair being -6 when perfectly autocancelled (you need to shff). All of these can be spaced outside of shield grab range. Unless you have a frame 5 disjointed OoS option like say, marth you're not punishing this. In nairs case since it doesn't have much range opponents can generally punish it with a jab or something from shield drop but this is where nair's ability to cross people over while still applying shield pressure until Pit lands is really good. I hope I don't have to explain to you the implications behind these stats.


Pit's arrows don't setup into anything?!? This is just wrong, they work extremly well in forcing airdodges offstage and onstage so that Pit can get a followup, if they do hit an opponent the hitstun allows pit to get followups anyway, they are also extremelt helpful in setting up juggles. And then there are mixups with shooting arrows upwards (which have brawl endlag aka none). Transitioning between arrows and moves is exactly how he keeps up constant pressure. You need to fight some better Pits dude, and stop theorycrafting without a proper base. You know what else is something to think about? Pit's reflector blocks attacks allowing him to safely get back to the ground or ledge (there is more to this but I don't feel the need to explain) and when it shatters it cuts the endlag allowing it to act as a pseudo counter. lol "though Dark Pit's does kill better than Pit's" that is an understatement. the move is filthy.


Pit's multiple jumps and super armoured side b are often more than enough to get him back on stage safely. Are there any moves that will launch him from onstage at a low ennough angle such that he has to use his up B? Not many if any.
So when does Pit have to use his up b? Generally after an edgeguard attempt, successful or not you are in no position to harrass him here. I honestly can't think of any other scenarios.
It's not child play to edgeguard a Pit, you say they are good at edgeguarding and this is directly linked to their good offstage presence, with multiple jumps disjointed aerials a super armoured side b, they have quite a few options. It's only if you somehow manage limit them to their UpB are they vulnerable but how would you do that?



That's because your comparing Pit's tools seperately to the best tools of everyone else, that isn't a fair comparison at all. He's got a decent bit of everything and that's what makes him so solid. If you actually compared him 1 on 1 to certain characters you'll see that they do better than him some areas but worse in others, no character should have the best of everything.


Well you could look at it that way.....I guess.....but I digress. Imo You don't pick a character to learn the game, You learn a character to play the game. But we are delving into abstract stuff here so I'll just leave it as opinions, not gonna say either is wrong or right. Dynamic is the exact word I'd use to describe them, that is their niche, they have no trait they are dominant in, no incredible ability all to themselves, yes I agree with all that but they have a little of everything which makes them versatile. They don't suck vs campy characters, they don't suck vs rush down characters, they don't suck vs spacies they can deal with everyone quite well because they are versatile.
Sure they aren't threatening but they are extremely solid, someone like DK would be threatening but he's not as solid as Pit and that is what makes them good. They don't need to have powerful tools like TSRK or ding dongs or bouncing fish to be good.
no no. dtilt is -13 AFTER shield drop.

Thats horrendous.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason they dont have alot of players is because they arent good?

And yes...you do need powerful tools to be good. Thats how power levels work.

Also as for his arrows, I said he doesnt get guaranteed follow ups which is not wrong. If I let out that important distinction then I apologize.

Also you ended it by admitting they aren't threatening?
My man what are you even debating then if you end by agreeing with me?
 
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no no. dtilt is -13 AFTER shield drop.

Thats horrendous.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason they dont have alot of players is because they arent good?

And yes...you do need powerful tools to be good. Thats how power levels work.

Also as for his arrows, I said he doesnt get guaranteed follow ups which is not wrong. If I let out that important distinction then I apologize.

Also you ended it by admitting they aren't threatening?
My man what are you even debating then if you end by agreeing with me?
"Did it ever occur to you that the reason they dont have alot of players is because they arent good"



Triggered
 

ReRaze

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Paseriman and Plastic Poptart

Edit:Just realized you said MORE than 2, so Paseriman, Kuro, Plastic Poptart, and Kibzu (17th at Beast)
I said 2 active notable pit mains
Also that was just me rhetorically trying to say there arent many but you can have a cookie anyway~ :p

no no. dtilt is -13 AFTER shield drop.

Thats horrendous.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason they dont have alot of players is because they arent good?

And yes...you do need powerful tools to be good. Thats how power levels work.

Also as for his arrows, I said he doesnt get guaranteed follow ups which is not wrong. If I let out that important distinction then I apologize.

Also you ended it by admitting they aren't threatening?
My man what are you even debating then if you end by agreeing with me?
hmm, that sounds right from the damage and endlag but idk it doesnt seem like that ingame gonna double check. My apologies if I made a mistake.

Also he does get guaranteed true combo followups from arrows, easiest being arrows > usmash.

Did it ever occur to you that not everyone is a tier *****?
People don't always pick characters just because they are good or not, otherwise you'd see alot more shieks and rosas around in that top 20 at umebera for e.g, there are alot of other factors such as whether you like the character, the playstyle, etc.

They aren't threatening in the sense that they can't "dur hurr you whiffed, ur dead at 50% or take 50%" Like DK or Ryu. But they are more solid than either of them in the sense that....well for e.g they don't die if they lose their jump offstage. Characters are good in different ways, Pit's good in the sense he's solid.

Maybe my wording of powerful tools (moves) was vague. There is more to being good than having powerful tools, e.g mobility, if shiek didn't have a good run speed her needles wouldn't work nearly as well as a keepaway tool. Or say Robin with great mobility would be crazy good. Mobility isn't a tool but it definitely helps make a character good.
(edit: the shiek example wasn't the best but you get the idea)
 
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hypersonicJD

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Thank you Shaya. I was actually searching for a thread for the tourney yesterday lol
 

lordvaati

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Cloud

I believe Smash is the first fighting game where Cloud is considered great. He was trash in the original Dissidia game and mediocre in the sequel, though he is obviously quite good here. I think Smash does a significantly better job of capturing the "spirit" of Cloud than his other incarnations. Just like in FF7 he's quick, powerful, and deals explosive damage. Limit is obviously a huge point of contention for many people, and i'm not sure how I really feel about it. I suppose i'm satisfied with its implementation for now. But yeah Cloud's cool and I'm still taking his presence in Smash Bros for granted.
He and Zack were High/High Mid Tier in Ehrgeiz, but that game is so obscure I don't blame ya for knowing about it.

but yeah the best incarnation of him is in Smash.
 

LancerStaff

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LancerStaff LancerStaff Please stop spreading misinformation about marth and pits jab. Marths jab is just better in every way. I don't know what game you're playing but the pits jab isn't "twice as big"; in fact marth jab has slightly more range. Also Marths jab is just as fast coming out at frame 5 but it also has one more active frame and one less frame of end-lag, and it's more versatile as it makes for a good anti air. Marth's jab...is definitely better.

the pits dtilt has slightly more range than marths, not "twice as much"

and the pits arrows have more start-up and end-lag than luigi's fireball
No, it's not. Especially because Marth's Jab is stuck on Marth and his garbage walk. You're confusing range and disjoint.

I don't recall comparing Pit's Dtilt to Marth's.

The FAF on Pit's arrows is a frame faster then Luigi's fireballs, actually. More start-up, less endlag.

Did Lancer say Pits Nair is safer then Marth's?

Safer on what? block? Doesnt even matter because its just not true. Marth is safer due to range and push back on shield. Heck I didnt even mention his aerial safety. You also didn't refute my point. Pits aerials do not transition well to his ground game. A similar problem Marth had. Meaning he cannot land with an aerial safely on a shield then keep up pressure. He can AC with Nair and Fair which helps, but its not quite as seamless.

Also did you basically imply that I shouldnt compare one chars tools to another? What?

Then how in the world would you come to a conclusion about tiers or match-ups? That's all this stuff is. Tool comparisons and interactions.

Also its pretty darn obvious to me you don't read frame data or test hitboxes for yourself. Do that.
Pit's Nair is so safe you either have to roll or risk getting grabed when shielding it, but then he can grab you during the endlag of a dodge anyway with a read. That's not shield pressure?

Overall is okay, individually is not. Doesn't matter how good Dorf Fair is when it's on Dorf.

I do, and it's plainly obvious people dismiss Pit without looking at the finer details.

Did it ever occur to you that the reason they dont have alot of players is because they arent good?
You could say the same thing about Ike because nobody plays him in Japan... The only reason you wouldn't is because you live in 'Merica. Somewhere in Japan somebody's giving the exact same speech about Ike and ignoring the character's results out of the country.
 

Eugene Wang

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A fork is bad at picking up soup. It's still a staple tool of diners everywhere.

It's what all the tools can do together that makes the fighter. Not what each one can do alone. If dtilt is that bad at poking shields, what about the other pokes?
 
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Mario766

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Ike vs ZSS is looking a lot like Ike vs Sonic at times.


The MU is a lot better after the Ike F-Air buff and ZSS nerfs.
 

predator_21476

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No, it's not. Especially because Marth's Jab is stuck on Marth and his garbage walk. You're confusing range and disjoint.

I don't recall comparing Pit's Dtilt to Marth's.

The FAF on Pit's arrows is a frame faster then Luigi's fireballs, actually. More start-up, less endlag.



Pit's Nair is so safe you either have to roll or risk getting grabed when shielding it, but then he can grab you during the endlag of a dodge anyway with a read. That's not shield pressure?

Overall is okay, individually is not. Doesn't matter how good Dorf Fair is when it's on Dorf.

I do, and it's plainly obvious people dismiss Pit without looking at the finer details.



You could say the same thing about Ike because nobody plays him in Japan... The only reason you wouldn't is because you live in 'Merica. Somewhere in Japan somebody's giving the exact same speech about Ike and ignoring the character's results out of the country.
I know you like the character but stop letting that blind yourself. The data doesn't lie for example pits arrows are laggier than Luigi's fireballs in both startup and endlang on the ground. In the air they still have more startup but has a faf of just one less frame than Luigi's. It takes 30 seconds to look this stuff up. So please do so before you make claims like that.
*edit* Marth's Jab has more range than pits. Just tested it where did you get the double range thing?
 
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Jehtt

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No, it's not. Especially because Marth's Jab is stuck on Marth and his garbage walk. You're confusing range and disjoint.



I think Marth's walk acceleration isn't amazing (can't find any data on that) but the difference in their speed is huge and important.
 
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LancerStaff

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I know you like the character but stop letting that blind yourself. The data doesn't lie for example pits arrows are laggier than Luigi's fireballs in both startup and endlang on the ground. In the air they still have more startup but has a faf of just one less frame than Luigi's. It takes 30 seconds to look this stuff up. So please do so before you make claims like that.
*edit* Marth's Jab has more range than pits. Just tested it where did you get the double range thing?
FAF is the first actionable frame as compared to the first frame, not the moment the hitbox comes out. Use Pit's arrows and Luigi's fireballs on the same frame and Pit finishes sooner.

Last I checked Pit's had more range, Marth's had more disjoint. Don't use them one after another right away if you're testing because the characters hurtboxes shift during and after the move.

I think Marth's walk acceleration isn't amazing (can't find any data on that) but the difference in their speed is huge and important.
Marth's walking acceleration is garbage and renders the high top speed completely moot. It's tied for worst in the game. Since acceleration in Smash is +X every tick instead of a percent of the max, the first couple steps are as slow as Bowser and Robin's.

Really, is there a reason to even walk far enough to where Marth's walk even fully accelerates? He has to walk most of FD to even catch up to Pit.
 

redblade

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A fork is bad at picking up soup. It's still a staple tool of diners everywhere.

It's what all the tools can do together that makes the fighter. Not what each one can do alone. If dtilt is that bad at poking shields, what about the other pokes?
Pit does have better pokes than dtilt, which itself is an infinitely better poke than ftilt, though only because ftilt is not good on shield. From a frame data perspective, jab 1 has the edge on dtilt as a poke while still having respectable range. (Most characters, particularly most non-swordies, would kill for a tilt that poked with the range, disjoint, and speed combination of Pit's jab 1 IMO, but I digress.)

Retreating
aerials, when properly spaced and SHFF'ed, are also decent pokes; retreating fair, retreating bair, retreating dair (yes, you can SHFF autocancel this one too as long as you buffer it from your short hop), and even retreating nair are non-trivial to punish from shield. Advancing aerials, on the other hand, will get you in trouble. Especially if you're not using Pit's max range. Which is why savvy Pits don't just rush in with aerials in neutral, by the way; there aren't many characters in the game who can do that, but Pit is undoubtedly not amongst such characters.

The point of Pit's character, IMO, is: to slow down the neutral game by staying in a safe poking range, whether through jabs, aerials, or arrows; to induce approaches that you can pick apart with disjoints and mobile zoning; and to punish screw-ups with big damage and/or stage control gains through grab/aerial combos and strings, juggle scenarios, and the odd aerial arrow follow up to link them all together or cap them all off (among many other uses for Pit's arrows). He's in no way an offense-heavy character, but I wouldn't pin him as a defense-heavy character or even an all-rounder; he's more of a counterattack character in the sense that he'll keep you out, but if you put yourself in a bad position against him, you'll eat a chunk of damage and then get put into a pressure scenario. Speaking from experience, Rushdown Pits quickly wise up in tourney play and slow the hell down or switch to a character that actually facilitates such a style.
 

predator_21476

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FAF is the first actionable frame as compared to the first frame, not the moment the hitbox comes out. Use Pit's arrows and Luigi's fireballs on the same frame and Pit finishes sooner.

Last I checked Pit's had more range, Marth's had more disjoint. Don't use them one after another right away if you're testing because the characters hurtboxes shift during and after the move.
I waited for the animations to finish. Marth's Jab has more range however Jab 3 on Pit has about the same range. Also if they're both on the ground and a fireball and the arrow come out at the same time. Luigi's will finish first. In the air pits will finish first. In the air though the arrow will come out 5 frames later.
 

Megamang

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So MK Leo is damn good with his perfect pivots, and he has basically (in my opinion) been winning neutral against almost everyone. with a character with a 'lackluster' neutral. If he gets the hardcore kills of the other top players at the ledge/ceiling, he'd be the best.
 

Smashifer

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Don't mind this post; wrong thread
 
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ReRaze

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Mobility is a trait each char has so yes its a tool.
Who decides that? Definitely not you so you can't say yes or no for certain because it isn't defined and I did mention that I meant moves just to clear up any ambiguity.
Either way the point of my posts was to clear up your misconceptions about Pit so I'm done here.
 
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D

Deleted member

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Get On My Level 2016 Top 32 (489 entrants)

1st
Ally :4mario::4marth:

2nd
ZeRo :4diddy::4sheik:

3rd
Larry Lurr :4fox::4dk:

4th
Nairo :4zss:

5th
Mew2King :4cloud2:
Leo :4metaknight::4cloud2::4marth:

7th
Mr. R :4sheik:
ANTi :4mario::4zss::4sheik::4diddy::4cloud2: (If only this website had the Random button icon.)

9th
Ksev :4fox:
Alphicans :4littlemac::4fox:
Will :4dk:
San :4myfriends:

13th
SuperGirlKels :4sonic:
PikaPika! :4pikachu::4cloud2:
Astro :4lucario:
DarkWolf :4shulk:

17th
iStudying :4greninja:
False :4marth::4sheik:
Yoh :4diddy:
Max Ketchum :4cloud2::4falcon:
Holy :4rob:
C3PO :4diddy:
Mr. E :4marth:
Venom :4ryu:

25th
Chrim Foish :4diddy:
JJROCKETS :4diddy:
Blacktwins :4cloud2::4mario:
Raziek :4robinf:
K.I.D. Goggles :4sonic::4kirby::4bayonetta:
Constance :4zss:
JPeds :4diddy:
Exodia :4zss:

:4diddy: x7
:4cloud: x6
:4zss: x4
:4sheik: x4
:4marth: x4
:4mario: x3
:4fox: x3
:4dk: x2
:4sonic: x2
:4shulk: x1
:4metaknight: x1
:4kirby: x1
:4bayonetta: x1
:4robinf: x1
:4ryu: x1
:4rob: x1
:4falcon: x1
:4greninja: x1
:4lucario: x1
:4littlemac: x1
:4pikachu: x1
:4myfriends: x1

23 characters total in top 32. Good show, jolly good show!

Now for some of my thoughts:
  • Seven :4diddy:s in top 32 alone is insanity. If Diddy wasn't at the top spot in the meta before at least near there, he definitely is now in my opinion. This character has nowhere to go but up. He gets impressive results at all levels of play and this is more or less reinforcing that.
  • My competitive impression is that :4mario: and Ally are beautiful creations. Fantastic job to both.
  • :4cloud: having six people repping him is also a pleasant surprise. Maybe the :4bayonetta: nerfs were that significant. M2K played his heart out, nice to see a solo Cloud in top 5 at a tournament this large.
  • :4shulk: making it into top 16 at a major. Beautiful. Jerm getting 49th and Artyuu getting 33rd were also some decent results here. Six Shulks were here at the tournament, reminds me of the invasion of Ikes at BH5 but to a lesser extent.
  • :4marth:continuing more and more to show us that he's got the juice. It's nice to see Marth becoming a relevant force in tournaments in this game.
  • I am still apprehensive about :4littlemac: despite Alphicans' absolutely impressive play today. Maybe its because I believe Mac's rather polarized design can leave him to go hot and cold a lot of the time. I'm still interested to see where he'll go in the meta, especially if people like Alphicans and Sol have the ability to travel more often. Maybe he's not the widely perceived low tier he is.
  • :4metaknight: is still a good character, in my honest opinion. I still don't see him falling down to mid tier like I've seen many here predict he will.
 
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Wintermelon43

Smash Champion
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Feb 13, 2015
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Get On My Level 2016 Top 32 (489 entrants)

1st
Ally :4mario:

2nd
ZeRo :4diddy::4sheik:

3rd
Larry Lurr :4fox::4dk:(?)

4th
Nairo :4zss:

5th
Mew2King :4cloud2:
Leo :4metaknight::4cloud2:

7th
Mr. R :4sheik:
ANTi :4mario::4zss::4sheik::4diddy::4cloud2: (If only this website had the Random button icon.)

9th
Ksev :4fox:
Alphicans :4littlemac::4fox:
Will :4dk:
San :4myfriends:

13th
SuperGirlKels :4sonic:
PikaPika! :4pikachu::4cloud2:
Astro :4lucario:
DarkWolf :4shulk:

17th
iStudying :4greninja:
False :4marth::4sheik:
Yoh :4diddy:
Max Ketchum :4cloud2::4falcon:
Holy :4rob:
C3PO :4diddy:
Mr. E :4marth:
Venom :4ryu:

25th
Chrim Foish :4diddy:
JJROCKETS :4diddy:
Blacktwins :4cloud2::4mario:
Raziek :4robinf::4corrinf:
K.I.D. Goggles :4sonic::4kirby::4bayonetta:
Constance :4zss:
JPeds :4diddy:
Exodia :4zss:

:4diddy: x7
:4cloud: x6
:4zss: x4
:4sheik: x4
:4mario: x3
:4fox: x3
:4dk: x2
:4sonic: x2
:4marth: x2
:4shulk: x1
:4metaknight: x1
:4kirby: x1
:4bayonetta: x1
:4robinf: x1
:4corrinf: x1
:4ryu: x1
:4rob: x1
:4falcon: x1
:4greninja: x1
:4lucario: x1
:4littlemac: x1
:4pikachu: x1
:4myfriends: x1

23 characters total in top 32. Good show, jolly good show!

Now for some of my thoughts:
  • Seven :4diddy:s in top 32 alone is insanity. If Diddy wasn't at the top spot in the meta before at least near there, he definitely is now in my opinion. This character has nowhere to go but up. He gets impressive results at all levels of play and this is more or less reinforcing that.
  • My competitive impression is that :4mario: and Ally are beautiful creations. Fantastic job to both.
  • :4cloud: having six people repping him is also a pleasant surprise. Maybe the :4bayonetta: nerfs were that significant. M2K played his heart out, nice to see a solo Cloud in top 5 at a tournament this large.
  • :4shulk: making it into top 16 at a major. Beautiful. Jerm getting 49th and Artyuu getting 33rd were also some decent results here. Six Shulks were here at the tournament, reminds me of the invasion of Ikes at BH5 but to a lesser extent.
  • :4marth:continuing more and more to show us that he's got the juice. It's nice to see Marth becoming a relevant force in tournaments in this game.
  • I am still apprehensive about :4littlemac: despite Alphicans' absolutely impressive play today. Maybe its because I believe Mac's rather polarized design can leave him to go hot and cold a lot of the time. I'm still interested to see where he'll go in the meta, especially if people like Alphicans and Sol have the ability to travel more often. Maybe he's not the widely perceived low tier he is.
  • :4metaknight: is still a good character, in my honest opinion. I still don't see him falling down to mid tier like I've seen many here predict he will.
Ally actually went Marth in winners finals of round 1 pools and performed better than he was than with his Mario

Knew you guys would forget it
 

Cereal Bawks

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I think this is the first super stacked major where an Ike broke out of 17th place.

Also Shulk placing 13th wat
 
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Amadeus9

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Get On My Level 2016 Top 32 (489 entrants)

1st
Ally :4mario:

2nd
ZeRo :4diddy::4sheik:

3rd
Larry Lurr :4fox::4dk:(?)

4th
Nairo :4zss:

5th
Mew2King :4cloud2:
Leo :4metaknight::4cloud2:

7th
Mr. R :4sheik:
ANTi :4mario::4zss::4sheik::4diddy::4cloud2: (If only this website had the Random button icon.)

9th
Ksev :4fox:
Alphicans :4littlemac::4fox:
Will :4dk:
San :4myfriends:

13th
SuperGirlKels :4sonic:
PikaPika! :4pikachu::4cloud2:
Astro :4lucario:
DarkWolf :4shulk:

17th
iStudying :4greninja:
False :4marth::4sheik:
Yoh :4diddy:
Max Ketchum :4cloud2::4falcon:
Holy :4rob:
C3PO :4diddy:
Mr. E :4marth:
Venom :4ryu:

25th
Chrim Foish :4diddy:
JJROCKETS :4diddy:
Blacktwins :4cloud2::4mario:
Raziek :4robinf::4corrinf:
K.I.D. Goggles :4sonic::4kirby::4bayonetta:
Constance :4zss:
JPeds :4diddy:
Exodia :4zss:

:4diddy: x7
:4cloud: x6
:4zss: x4
:4sheik: x4
:4mario: x3
:4fox: x3
:4dk: x2
:4sonic: x2
:4marth: x2
:4shulk: x1
:4metaknight: x1
:4kirby: x1
:4bayonetta: x1
:4robinf: x1
:4corrinf: x1
:4ryu: x1
:4rob: x1
:4falcon: x1
:4greninja: x1
:4lucario: x1
:4littlemac: x1
:4pikachu: x1
:4myfriends: x1

23 characters total in top 32. Good show, jolly good show!

Now for some of my thoughts:
  • Seven :4diddy:s in top 32 alone is insanity. If Diddy wasn't at the top spot in the meta before at least near there, he definitely is now in my opinion. This character has nowhere to go but up. He gets impressive results at all levels of play and this is more or less reinforcing that.
  • My competitive impression is that :4mario: and Ally are beautiful creations. Fantastic job to both.
  • :4cloud: having six people repping him is also a pleasant surprise. Maybe the :4bayonetta: nerfs were that significant. M2K played his heart out, nice to see a solo Cloud in top 5 at a tournament this large.
  • :4shulk: making it into top 16 at a major. Beautiful. Jerm getting 49th and Artyuu getting 33rd were also some decent results here. Six Shulks were here at the tournament, reminds me of the invasion of Ikes at BH5 but to a lesser extent.
  • :4marth:continuing more and more to show us that he's got the juice. It's nice to see Marth becoming a relevant force in tournaments in this game.
  • I am still apprehensive about :4littlemac: despite Alphicans' absolutely impressive play today. Maybe its because I believe Mac's rather polarized design can leave him to go hot and cold a lot of the time. I'm still interested to see where he'll go in the meta, especially if people like Alphicans and Sol have the ability to travel more often. Maybe he's not the widely perceived low tier he is.
  • :4metaknight: is still a good character, in my honest opinion. I still don't see him falling down to mid tier like I've seen many here predict he will.
I S2g if i see a certain person that posts here try to fight you on mk being good, I will blow a ****ing gasket
 

Megamang

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,791
In the end, really solid smash attacks with good prediction/reactions overcame the kill confirm monkey. This bodes well for MK, Leo definitely was within reach of winning every set I saw.
 

Trunks159

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
431
Location
Pennsylvania
NNID
Trunks159
Only time i saw him use shiek was vs M2K and we all know how that went.
I don't wanna see a ton of people on here trying to make a case for :4mario: being top 3. That was Ally right there.
 

Ffamran

The Smooth Devil Mod
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
14,629
Get On My Level 2016 Top 32 (489 entrants)

1st
Ally :4mario::4marth:

2nd
ZeRo :4diddy::4sheik:

3rd
Larry Lurr :4fox::4dk:(?)

4th
Nairo :4zss:

5th
Mew2King :4cloud2:
Leo :4metaknight::4cloud2:

7th
Mr. R :4sheik:
ANTi :4mario::4zss::4sheik::4diddy::4cloud2: (If only this website had the Random button icon.)

9th
Ksev :4fox:
Alphicans :4littlemac::4fox:
Will :4dk:
San :4myfriends:

13th
SuperGirlKels :4sonic:
PikaPika! :4pikachu::4cloud2:
Astro :4lucario:
DarkWolf :4shulk:

17th
iStudying :4greninja:
False :4marth::4sheik:
Yoh :4diddy:
Max Ketchum :4cloud2::4falcon:
Holy :4rob:
C3PO :4diddy:
Mr. E :4marth:
Venom :4ryu:

25th
Chrim Foish :4diddy:
JJROCKETS :4diddy:
Blacktwins :4cloud2::4mario:
Raziek :4robinf::4corrinf:
K.I.D. Goggles :4sonic::4kirby::4bayonetta:
Constance :4zss:
JPeds :4diddy:
Exodia :4zss:

:4diddy: x7
:4cloud: x6
:4zss: x4
:4sheik: x4
:4mario: x3
:4fox: x3
:4marth: x3
:4dk: x2
:4sonic: x2
:4shulk: x1
:4metaknight: x1
:4kirby: x1
:4bayonetta: x1
:4robinf: x1
:4corrinf: x1
:4ryu: x1
:4rob: x1
:4falcon: x1
:4greninja: x1
:4lucario: x1
:4littlemac: x1
:4pikachu: x1
:4myfriends: x1

23 characters total in top 32. Good show, jolly good show!

Now for some of my thoughts:
  • Seven :4diddy:s in top 32 alone is insanity. If Diddy wasn't at the top spot in the meta before at least near there, he definitely is now in my opinion. This character has nowhere to go but up. He gets impressive results at all levels of play and this is more or less reinforcing that.
  • My competitive impression is that :4mario: and Ally are beautiful creations. Fantastic job to both.
  • :4cloud: having six people repping him is also a pleasant surprise. Maybe the :4bayonetta: nerfs were that significant. M2K played his heart out, nice to see a solo Cloud in top 5 at a tournament this large.
  • :4shulk: making it into top 16 at a major. Beautiful. Jerm getting 49th and Artyuu getting 33rd were also some decent results here. Six Shulks were here at the tournament, reminds me of the invasion of Ikes at BH5 but to a lesser extent.
  • :4marth:continuing more and more to show us that he's got the juice. It's nice to see Marth becoming a relevant force in tournaments in this game.
  • I am still apprehensive about :4littlemac: despite Alphicans' absolutely impressive play today. Maybe its because I believe Mac's rather polarized design can leave him to go hot and cold a lot of the time. I'm still interested to see where he'll go in the meta, especially if people like Alphicans and Sol have the ability to travel more often. Maybe he's not the widely perceived low tier he is.
  • :4metaknight: is still a good character, in my honest opinion. I still don't see him falling down to mid tier like I've seen many here predict he will.
Didn't Leo use Marth once against Ally and won a round? Or was it someone else?
 
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KamikazePotato

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Messages
217
On the subject of Marth - Mr. E took Ally to Game 5 using Marth, and he was .00001% away from getting to Top 13, his last match had a bunch of weird stuff in it. Marth definitely had a good tournament.
 

ARISTOS

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2016
Messages
741
Location
The Empire
It was a good tournament for a lot of characters- I think :4sheik::4zss: were relatively underwhelming and no Dabuz means no :rosalina:

Other relative losers: :4mewtwo::4bayonetta2:
 
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DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
All I have to say is if you're still in denial about patch 1.1.5-onward Mario's worth, you're hopeless.

Congrats to Ally as well.
 
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sedrf

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
418
there wasn't that many notable 2s besides bleu and no notable bayos especially after being just nerfed
 

Zelder

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
477
Location
(location)
No one wants to read a no name player bluster about Mario winning his first major, so I'll just say that I'm mentally playing back the "Mario is bottom 5" discussions from when Smash 4 first hit, and laughing my ass off.
 

lordvaati

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
3,148
Location
Seattle, WA
Switch FC
SW-4918-2392-4599
Mario is the rare case of a character becoming amazing by doing absolutely nothing.

he just naturally became stronger by the world changing around him.

AND I LOVE IT.

I feel he finally became the character he was built to be IMO.
 

Nexus Nova

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 18, 2015
Messages
20
Get On My Level 2016 Top 32 (489 entrants)

1st
Ally :4mario::4marth:

2nd
ZeRo :4diddy::4sheik:

3rd
Larry Lurr :4fox::4dk:

4th
Nairo :4zss:

5th
Mew2King :4cloud2:
Leo :4metaknight::4cloud2::4marth:

7th
Mr. R :4sheik:
ANTi :4mario::4zss::4sheik::4diddy::4cloud2: (If only this website had the Random button icon.)

9th
Ksev :4fox:
Alphicans :4littlemac::4fox:
Will :4dk:
San :4myfriends:

13th
SuperGirlKels :4sonic:
PikaPika! :4pikachu::4cloud2:
Astro :4lucario:
DarkWolf :4shulk:

17th
iStudying :4greninja:
False :4marth::4sheik:
Yoh :4diddy:
Max Ketchum :4cloud2::4falcon:
Holy :4rob:
C3PO :4diddy:
Mr. E :4marth:
Venom :4ryu:

25th
Chrim Foish :4diddy:
JJROCKETS :4diddy:
Blacktwins :4cloud2::4mario:
Raziek :4robinf::4corrinf:
K.I.D. Goggles :4sonic::4kirby::4bayonetta:
Constance :4zss:
JPeds :4diddy:
Exodia :4zss:

:4diddy: x7
:4cloud: x6
:4zss: x4
:4sheik: x4
:4marth: x4
:4mario: x3
:4fox: x3
:4dk: x2
:4sonic: x2
:4shulk: x1
:4metaknight: x1
:4kirby: x1
:4bayonetta: x1
:4robinf: x1
:4corrinf: x1
:4ryu: x1
:4rob: x1
:4falcon: x1
:4greninja: x1
:4lucario: x1
:4littlemac: x1
:4pikachu: x1
:4myfriends: x1

23 characters total in top 32. Good show, jolly good show!

Now for some of my thoughts:
  • Seven :4diddy:s in top 32 alone is insanity. If Diddy wasn't at the top spot in the meta before at least near there, he definitely is now in my opinion. This character has nowhere to go but up. He gets impressive results at all levels of play and this is more or less reinforcing that.
  • My competitive impression is that :4mario: and Ally are beautiful creations. Fantastic job to both.
  • :4cloud: having six people repping him is also a pleasant surprise. Maybe the :4bayonetta: nerfs were that significant. M2K played his heart out, nice to see a solo Cloud in top 5 at a tournament this large.
  • :4shulk: making it into top 16 at a major. Beautiful. Jerm getting 49th and Artyuu getting 33rd were also some decent results here. Six Shulks were here at the tournament, reminds me of the invasion of Ikes at BH5 but to a lesser extent.
  • :4marth:continuing more and more to show us that he's got the juice. It's nice to see Marth becoming a relevant force in tournaments in this game.
  • I am still apprehensive about :4littlemac: despite Alphicans' absolutely impressive play today. Maybe its because I believe Mac's rather polarized design can leave him to go hot and cold a lot of the time. I'm still interested to see where he'll go in the meta, especially if people like Alphicans and Sol have the ability to travel more often. Maybe he's not the widely perceived low tier he is.
  • :4metaknight: is still a good character, in my honest opinion. I still don't see him falling down to mid tier like I've seen many here predict he will.
That's actually pretty cool. I admire Ally for his unique techniques when he plays as Mario.
It makes me wonder though what would happen if a Mewtwo player like Abadango was in it. I remembered last time that he struggled a bit against him.
In fact, it sounds like Mewtwo is actually a bad matchup for Mario.
 
Last edited:

juddy96

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
1,133
Location
Canada
While obviously GOML was the hypest thing around, there were a couple category 1 tournaments for @Das Koopa list and here is one of them (the other isn't done yet)

Paradigm Shift (195 entrants)

1) ESAM :4pikachu:
2) Fatality :4falcon:
3) Kai :4sonic:
4) Puppeh :4sheik:
5) Stingers :4cloud2:
5) Xanos :4lucas:
7) Mekos :4lucas:
7) Sect :4metaknight:
9) Peabnut Bubber :4megaman:
9) Dandy Penguin :4duckhunt:
9) NickRiddle :4zss:
9) That Guy :4bayonetta:
13) Lazyboredom :4littlemac:
13) MoNrA :4villager:
13) Sova Unknown :4link:
13) Leaf FC (whoever he feels like)
 
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