Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[Ninety]

Hey, good on ESAM! Shame no one was watching because GOML lol

 

[ARISTOS]

Leaf mains random

 

[Deleted member]

While obviously GOML was the hypest thing around, there were a couple category 1 tournaments for Das Koopa list and here is one of them (the other isn't done yet)

Paradigm Shift (195 entrants)

1) ESAM
2) Fatality
3) Kai
4) Puppeh
5) Stingers
5) Xanos
7) Mekos
7) Sect
9) Peabnut Bubber
9) Dandy Penguin
9) NickRiddle
9) That Guy (idk)
13) Lazyboredom
13) MoNrA
13) Sova Unknown
13) Leaf FC (idk)

I see two Lucas'. I approve.

Mekos looks like he's jumping right in after starting to get into Smash 4. Hope this means more for the Lucas meta in the future. Nice win for ESAM and it's nice to see Dandy Penguin placing so high!

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Mario is scary. I think it's absolute bull that he's earned a reputation for being an all around "honest" character. Mario is not at all honest, if we're defining honest as pit and falcon tier stuff. Mario has downright bonkers frame data, damage racking potential, smash attacks are amazing, and his gimps are top tier stuff. There is no way mario is lower than top 5 and I think he's definitely up there with ,, as contenders for #1.

Does mario actually lose any matchups? Rosalina seems hard but it's obviously doable, and cloud is an easy rosa counterpick. He's supposed to lose to swords, but I don't buy it. His mobility is more than good enough for rushing down, and once he gets in, his combo ability just ****s all over swordies, who typically lack string beakers or get-off-me aerials. He goes even or beats Diddy, Fox, Sheik, Ryu. He destroys pikachu.

Why isn't mario a candidate for #1 again? Is it because of his supposedly bad range, which is almost completely mitigated by his aggressive rushdown potential and mobility? Is it because he has no kill confirms, despite having arguably the dumbest smash attacks and gimps in the game? Is it because of his results? I suppose he isn't doing as well right now as diddy, sheik, or cloud purely based on results. The thing is, I see diddy and cloud counterplay only getting stronger as people adapt to banana, learn to perfect shield and gimp better. I don't see how counterplay is going to make an invincible, frame fast upsmash, crazy strings, or godlike gimping tools any less terrifying.

This may be a stretch, but I think mario may end up being the best character in the game in the future.

 

[juddy96]

Another tourney that went mostly undetected, was Invasion 5, a Connecticut monthly that happened yesterday, which was decently stacked for its size. Dabuz won both WF and GF in 5 game sets.

Invasion 5 (80 entrants)

1) Dabuz
2) Marss
3) Raptor
4) LingLing
5) Craftis
5) Mtn64
7) Waldo
7) Fabled ?

Players such as ADHD and Angel Cortes did not make it to top 8.

 

[sedrf]

2 lucases in top 8
ok then

 

[juddy96]

A couple other notes about Paradigm Shift

- The tourney was 3 stock
- This was ESAM's first victory in a tournament with 100+ entrants this year
- MoNrA, a player from the Dominican Republic (8th on their PR) that was in the area at the time of the tournament, finished a respectable 13th with his Villager
- Two Lucas' in top 8 tho?

 

[420quickscoper]

It was a good tournament for a lot of characters- I think were relatively underwhelming and no Dabuz means no

Other relative losers:

Bayonetta's basically been wrecked a few days ago, so I'm not surprised.
Blue was the only notable Mewtwo to go to GOML, so I'm not surprised at that, either.

 

[Deleted member]

2 lucases in top 8
ok then

I literally just said this :U

 

[Pazx]

Another tourney that went mostly undetected, was Invasion 5, a Connecticut monthly that happened yesterday, which was decently stacked for its size. Dabuz won both WF and GF in 5 game sets.

Invasion 5 (80 entrants)

1) Dabuz
2) Marss
3) Raptor
4) LingLing
5) Craftis
5) Mtn64
7) Waldo
7) Fabled ?

Players such as ADHD and Angel Cortes did not make it to top 8.

Notably, Dabuz went Olimar for game 5 of winners finals and all (?) of grand finals. This begs the question, does ZSS still have a strong Rosalina matchup?

 

[outfoxd]

Duck Hunt still lingering like a cockroach. I need to quit being lazy and look at what they do.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Mario is scary. I think it's absolute bull that he's earned a reputation for being an all around "honest" character. Mario is not at all honest, if we're defining honest as pit and falcon tier stuff. Mario has downright bonkers frame data, damage racking potential, smash attacks are amazing, and his gimps are top tier stuff. There is no way mario is lower than top 5 and I think he's definitely up there with ,, as contenders for #1.

Does mario actually lose any matchups? Rosalina seems hard but it's obviously doable, and cloud is an easy rosa counterpick. He's supposed to lose to swords, but I don't buy it. His mobility is more than good enough for rushing down, and once he gets in, his combo ability just ****s all over swordies, who typically lack string beakers or get-off-me aerials. He goes even or beats Diddy, Fox, Sheik, Ryu. He destroys pikachu.

Why isn't mario a candidate for #1 again? Is it because of his supposedly bad range, which is almost completely mitigated by his aggressive rushdown potential and mobility? Is it because he has no kill confirms, despite having arguably the dumbest smash attacks and gimps in the game? Is it because of his results? I suppose he isn't doing as well right now as diddy, sheik, or cloud purely based on results. The thing is, I see diddy and cloud counterplay only getting stronger as people adapt to banana, learn to perfect shield and gimp better. I don't see how counterplay is going to make an invincible, frame fast upsmash, crazy strings, or godlike gimping tools any less terrifying.

This may be a stretch, but I think mario may end up being the best character in the game in the future.

Lets not knee jerk here. Mario is still reliant on hard reads for kills and doesn't exploit on advantageous situations like sheik or Diddy. And counter play to Mario will be better neutral play.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Lets ignore the fact that Ally is top 5 on the face of the mother****ing planet.

It was all Mario clearly.

what the ****

 

[Peppermint1201]

Mario is scary. I think it's absolute bull that he's earned a reputation for being an all around "honest" character. Mario is not at all honest, if we're defining honest as pit and falcon tier stuff. Mario has downright bonkers frame data, damage racking potential, smash attacks are amazing, and his gimps are top tier stuff. There is no way mario is lower than top 5 and I think he's definitely up there with ,, as contenders for #1.

Does mario actually lose any matchups? Rosalina seems hard but it's obviously doable, and cloud is an easy rosa counterpick. He's supposed to lose to swords, but I don't buy it. His mobility is more than good enough for rushing down, and once he gets in, his combo ability just ****s all over swordies, who typically lack string beakers or get-off-me aerials. He goes even or beats Diddy, Fox, Sheik, Ryu. He destroys pikachu.

Why isn't mario a candidate for #1 again? Is it because of his supposedly bad range, which is almost completely mitigated by his aggressive rushdown potential and mobility? Is it because he has no kill confirms, despite having arguably the dumbest smash attacks and gimps in the game? Is it because of his results? I suppose he isn't doing as well right now as diddy, sheik, or cloud purely based on results. The thing is, I see diddy and cloud counterplay only getting stronger as people adapt to banana, learn to perfect shield and gimp better. I don't see how counterplay is going to make an invincible, frame fast upsmash, crazy strings, or godlike gimping tools any less terrifying.

This may be a stretch, but I think mario may end up being the best character in the game in the future.

Let's not get ridiculous. There are definite problems with Mario. For one, there are some questionable matchups with upper-mid characters, such as DK (an opinion not only held by Ally and ANTi but backed by results if im not mistaken) and, if Ally's 3-1 loss to Ryuga at Landlocked means anything, Corrin. Not to mention Ally actually being down 2-1 in games and at a 100% deficit in game 4 of his set vs Mr. E at GOML. If he didn't get a spike and turn up the jets in Game 5 it would've been an early trip to losers for him. MK Leo also took a game off of Ally with Marth. Furthermore, Ally's two biggest demons, Dabuz and Nairo, didn't attend and didn't fight him at GOML, respectively.

 

[ShadowGuy1]

Aye, Dabuz beating Marss. That is nice to know.

 

[Jucchan]

https://www.twitch.tv/cacawgaming
http://cacaw.challonge.com/SSN7S4Top24
Super SmashNestv7 (100 entrants) is going on right now, feat. Cacogen, Big D, Captain L, Viviff, K-****

 

[juddy96]

And the other category 1 tournament has just finished.

CEO Prologue (135 entrants)

1) All Might
2) DJ Jack
3) MVD
4) Dath
5) Master Raven
5) Cashmere
7) Prince Ramen
7) Ryo
9) Day
9) Saj
9) Riot
9) Eden
13) Brand
13) E
13) Seibrik
13) Xaltis

Players such as Sol, True Blue, Poltergust, and dyr did not make top 16.

 

[hypersonicJD]

And the other category 1 tournament has just finished.

CEO Prologue (135 entrants)

1) All Might
2) DJ Jack
3) MVD
4) Dath
5) Master Raven
5) Cashmere
7) Prince Ramen
7) Ryo
9) Day
9) Saj
9) Riot
9) Eden
13) Brand
13) E
13) Seibrik
13) Xaltis

Players such as Sol, True Blue, Poltergust, and dyr did not make top 16.

So, Sonic doesn't win tournaments huh? Good to see that a Sonic main finally did it. This is truly a historic day for Smash 4 competitive scene.

 

[|RK|]

And the other category 1 tournament has just finished.

CEO Prologue (135 entrants)

1) All Might
2) DJ Jack
3) MVD
4) Dath
5) Master Raven
5) Cashmere
7) Prince Ramen
7) Ryo
9) Day
9) Saj
9) Riot
9) Eden
13) Brand
13) E
13) Seibrik
13) Xaltis

Players such as Sol, True Blue, Poltergust, and dyr did not make top 16.

Wait, is category 1 the highest level? Because I would not consider these tournaments to be the same level as GOML.

If not, please ignore me lol

 

[juddy96]

So, Sonic doesn't win tournaments huh? Good to see that a Sonic main finally did it. This is truly a historic day for Smash 4 competitive scene.

... It certainly wasn't easy on the eyes, that's for sure. And I'm a big fan of watching Smash 4 Sonic.

 

[PK Gaming]

Here's some footage of 1.16 Bayonetta. Not too shabby, she still has some combos.

 

[Nu~]

So, Sonic doesn't win tournaments huh? Good to see that a Sonic main finally did it. This is truly a historic day for Smash 4 competitive scene.

...Historic?
...Hello?

You would think that it was some underdog mid tier that won the tournament lol

 

[juddy96]

Wait, is category 1 the highest level? Because I would not consider these tournaments to be the same level as GOML.

If not, please ignore me lol

Ok.

*ignoring*

 

[Rizen]

Remember when I said is viable regionally but not in majors? This is a perfect example.

Get On My Level 2016 Top 32 (489 entrants)

1st
Ally

2nd
ZeRo

3rd
Larry Lurr

4th
Nairo

5th
Mew2King
Leo

7th
Mr. R
ANTi (If only this website had the Random button icon.)

9th
Ksev
Alphicans
Will
San

13th
SuperGirlKels
PikaPika!
Astro
DarkWolf

17th
iStudying
False
Yoh
Max Ketchum
Holy
C3PO
Mr. E
Venom

25th
Chrim Foish
JJROCKETS
Blacktwins
Raziek
K.I.D. Goggles
Constance
JPeds
Exodia

Spoiler: GOML 2016 Top 32 Character Diversity

x7
x6
x4
x4
x4
x3
x3
x2
x2
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1
x1

While obviously GOML was the hypest thing around, there were a couple category 1 tournaments for Das Koopa list and here is one of them (the other isn't done yet)

Paradigm Shift (195 entrants)

1) ESAM
2) Fatality
3) Kai
4) Puppeh
5) Stingers
5) Xanos
7) Mekos
7) Sect
9) Peabnut Bubber
9) Dandy Penguin
9) NickRiddle
9) That Guy (idk)
13) Lazyboredom
13) MoNrA
13) Sova Unknown
13) Leaf FC (whoever he feels like)

^ solo got 13th on the lower quote. This is my result based reasoning for link being a mid-tier. Link has a lot of good regional results like that but doesn't show in the top 32 of majors. When I see people put Link on a tier below Robin and Kirby it looks too low imo. I think Link is about where Robin is on the tier list.


On another note, lots of s even at the highest level of play, 2nd only to in numbers. IMO Diddy's probably the best followed by Cloud, Rosa and Sheik (not ordered).

 

[HeavyLobster]

Lets ignore the fact that Ally is top 5 on the face of the mother****ing planet.

It was all Mario clearly.

what the ****

The idea of best player > best character is lost on some.

 

[Deleted member]

While obviously GOML was the hypest thing around, there were a couple category 1 tournaments for Das Koopa list and here is one of them (the other isn't done yet)

Paradigm Shift (195 entrants)

1) ESAM
2) Fatality
3) Kai
4) Puppeh
5) Stingers
5) Xanos
7) Mekos
7) Sect
9) Peabnut Bubber
9) Dandy Penguin
9) NickRiddle
9) That Guy (idk)
13) Lazyboredom
13) MoNrA
13) Sova Unknown
13) Leaf FC (whoever he feels like)

I want to bring attention that a main named RDR7 got 17th place at this tournament. Not too bad.

 

[Shady Shaymin]

Guys, I know one nice upset in a tournament is not enough to instantly qualify a character as number one. I'm just playing devil's advocate here and entertaining the possibility that diddy, sheik, cloud, or rosa could have another competition for #1 spot. Maybe mario really does have flaws that prevent him from being up there, but ally sure as hell is good at hiding them.

 

[juddy96]

Remember when I said is viable regionally but not in majors? This is a perfect example.


^ solo got 13th on the lower quote. This is my result based reasoning for link being a mid-tier. Link has a lot of good regional results like that but doesn't show in the top 32 of majors. When I see people put Link on a tier below Robin and Kirby it looks too low imo. I think Link is about where Robin is on the tier list.


On another note, lots of s even at the highest level of play, 2nd only to in numbers. IMO Diddy's probably the best followed by Cloud, Rosa and Sheik (not ordered).

In terms of results on the regional level, Robin is known to do well in Florida, Nova Scotia, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, and Minnesota. I'm not completely aware of all the Links out there

 

[Rizen]

In terms of results on the regional level, Robin is known to do well in Florida, Nova Scotia, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, and Minnesota. I'm not completely aware of all the Links out there

Off the top of my head, tourney placing Links are Zane the Pure in Texas, Scizor in SoCal, Lord Xavior in RI, Unknown in (was Paradigm Shift in FL?), Cat in Netherlands, there's also Huggles who's PRed, kxiong, ...sorry I'm not home atm and got to go. See this.
http://smashboards.com/threads/link-tournament-results-thread-25th-october.404196/page-6

 

[juddy96]

Off the top of my head, tourney placing Links are Zane the Pure in Texas, Scizor in SoCal, Lord Xavior in RI, Unknown in (was Paradigm Shift in FL?), Cat in Netherlands, there's also Huggles who's PRed, kxiong, ...sorry I'm not home atm and got to go. See this.
http://smashboards.com/threads/link-tournament-results-thread-25th-october.404196/page-6

Paradigm Shift was in NC. Sova Unknown, as the name implies, is from Southern Virginia

 

[Das Koopa]

That Guy is apparently still a Bayo faithful.

 

[Aaron1997]

And the other category 1 tournament has just finished.

CEO Prologue (135 entrants)

1) All Might
2) DJ Jack
3) MVD
4) Dath
5) Master Raven
5) Cashmere
7) Prince Ramen
7) Ryo
9) Day
9) Saj
9) Riot
9) Eden
13) Brand
13) E
13) Seibrik
13) Xaltis

Players such as Sol, True Blue, Poltergust, and dyr did not make top 16.

Oh look, the moment DH starts getting alot of great placings MVD picks him back up LOL

 

[Shady Shaymin]

No ness in GOML or Paradigm Shift top 32? Shame. Is someone gatekeeping him or did he just lack representation at these tours?

 

[Charoite]

.

This is all good until you realize, that seibrik isn't SDI or DI correctly, in fact that last combo shouldn't happened if he knowed how to SDI that Up-2, i dont know why people are looking for combos in bayo, when she isn't good at that anymore.

A good bayo player should do turtling and camp until can use her kill confirms.
Imagine 1.1.6 as a combination of and , with a poor's man Za warudo, how good is she now is another matter, but dont expect any notable results of her right now.

 

[ARGHETH]

No ness in GOML or Paradigm Shift top 32? Shame. Is someone gatekeeping him or did he just lack representation at these tours?

I mean...unless FOW, Shaky, or NAKAT went, I'd say it a rep issue.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

you know, if top players slowed the game down more, I think we would see much less upsets than we do now.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Guys, I know one nice upset in a tournament is not enough to instantly qualify a character as number one. I'm just playing devil's advocate here and entertaining the possibility that diddy, sheik, cloud, or rosa could have another competition for #1 spot. Maybe mario really does have flaws that prevent him from being up there, but ally sure as hell is good at hiding them.

What has Rosa actually done to merit discussion as the best character in the game? She's obviously a good character, but she definitely has MUs she loses harder than anything Sheik/Diddy have to deal with, and also has worse results, so I don't understand the actual case for her as #1 right now. People keep saying she's gonna take over as #1 after every round of nerfs but it never seems to materialize. At this point I'm not even sold on her as top 5 with Diddy, Sheik, Cloud, ZSS, and Mario all looking better right now. She's still really good but has some rough MUs to deal with.

 

[Charoite]

Yes, nairo is big example on this, he couldn't slow down against , to the point that he was eating smashes, compare this to Leo or Zero, who could slow the game and capitalize on that, if Nairo weren't getting the 0-death ladder combos against Alphicans he would lose the set.

 

[KamikazePotato]

you know, if top players slowed the game down more, I think we would see much less upsets than we do now.

This is true but don't spread it around. Smash 4 is actually fun to watch at the moment.

 

[Ninety]

And the other category 1 tournament has just finished.

CEO Prologue (135 entrants)

1) All Might
2) DJ Jack
3) MVD
4) Dath
5) Master Raven
5) Cashmere
7) Prince Ramen
7) Ryo
9) Day
9) Saj
9) Riot
9) Eden
13) Brand
13) E
13) Seibrik
13) Xaltis

Players such as Sol, True Blue, Poltergust, and dyr did not make top 16.

No disrespect to Manny, but if he won, I guarantee it wasn't by playing hype.

Good showing from Dath. Is it just me, or does he have a tendency to place exactly 4th? Also, respect to Saj for sticking with Bayo.