Official 4BR Tier List v1.0 - Competitive Impressions

[C0rvus]

I mean, as a Ness/Mewtwo main I can understand why you think her kill throw is insignificant. And it largely is. It's certainly not a move to rely on, as she has moves that kill earlier that can be comboed into. But having that throw is pretty damn important. It means her opponent cannot shield against her for free when they are at kill percent. It's a tool that makes you fear her grab more. It makes grabbing better period. Characters without this want it a lot. It's a stock cap, really. It means opponents will never live to 200%.

 

[Rizen]

So Izaw says Link is better than Toon Link, puts him at 17th-18th. He cited his result at BEAST 6, which is impressive, but I can't help but recall Toon Link's results from all sides of the globe. It seems to be a theme among Link mains to overrate the character.

He also drowned at genesis 3 where Hyuga got top 12 with Toon Link. It's great that Izaw's out playing tournaments with Link, finally, but by his logic Greninja should be a top 8 character.

Many Link players have been getting results for a long time but most rate him mid-tier. Izaw is popular on youtube and gets noticed a lot more.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Bayonetta's neutral b seems really good against Sheiks that recover above ledge to avoid the 2 frame, it has the best angle to punish it.

EDIT: Hard to do on reaction, you need to expect vanish above ledge, since like you only have a 2 frame window (at the most) to hit her before intangibility.

 

[Megamang]

My very first impression of that move was "why is she shooting up at an angle?"

Now its "If she shot horizontal half the cast would be 75:25 against her"

 

[FallofBrawl]

My very first impression of that move was "why is she shooting up at an angle?"

Now its "If she shot horizontal half the cast would be 75:25 against her"

Too bad that doesn't stop her from hitting Ganon's fat face and making it one of the worst MUs.

 

[Browny]

I mean, as a Ness/Mewtwo main I can understand why you think her kill throw is insignificant. And it largely is. It's certainly not a move to rely on, as she has moves that kill earlier that can be comboed into. But having that throw is pretty damn important. It means her opponent cannot shield against her for free when they are at kill percent. It's a tool that makes you fear her grab more. It makes grabbing better period. Characters without this want it a lot. It's a stock cap, really. It means opponents will never live to 200%.

I'm more of the opinion that if a Bayonetta is letting her opponent live to %'s where fthrow actually kills, she is doing something very wrong. With WT, dair, uair and bair its pretty bad if your enemy is living past 150% because you cant land those moves.

 

[C0rvus]

I'm more of the opinion that if a Bayonetta is letting her opponent live to %'s where fthrow actually kills, she is doing something very wrong. With WT, dair, uair and bair its pretty bad if your enemy is living past 150% because you cant land those moves.

I actually agree completely, but having the option is infinitely better than not having it.

 

[Teshie U]

Bair and nair are still safe on shield with the extra first up-b lag, and she can always side-b to a platform or go to the ledge or something.

Also worth noting that she can witch time on landing to ignore the extra landing lag she'd otherwise get.

Going to the ledge every time you mash out Up B in CQC isn't going to be a viable strategy. Witch Time is quite punishable if you are willing to grab her or hit the 15 frame window with a smash or something.

The most important weakness of the landing lag increases is that is absolutely butchers her ability to do an empty landing to escape someone shield grabbing her. Bair/Nair are technically safe on shield (?), but once she is out of lag, its still at least 3 more frames before she can get a hitbox out to stop grabs and 4-5 before her dodges will protect against grabs. You always HAVE to land with the aerial. If you witch time a grab, they just mash grab again and get you anyway.

Side B to a platform I guess is relative to how slow the opposing character is.

 

[Nobie]

No character can "not trigger witch time at all".
You are gonna throw attacks. No character can only use grabs. You will use attacks in neutral, you will try and catch her in the air with aerials and you are going to try and get back to neutral with attacks. Also most recoveries do have a hitbox.
Even then, most grabs just go even with witch time since her invulnerability will dodge the grab.
Witch time is a real threat to any attack that you use and will use, and you just have to hope that she won't witch time it. Other super strong counters like Corrin's can have the counterplay of using weak moves, but bayonetta doesn't, which is completely stupid imo.

Bayonetta doesn't have that bad of a frame data tbh. UpB makes up for it a lot. Her normals have way more range than the animation looks like, and long range means long startup.
UpB is just plain stupid. If you are supposed to throw out moves and out-frame data her (and hope she doesn't use witch time), why does she have such a good and fast super safe move? And if she hits you with it she will combo off of it.

I don't see many ways to approach the matchup besides trying to abuse rage.

That's why I had "deal" in quotation marks, because as you said there isn't a perfect solution to it and at the end of the day the move is really, really good. What I'm never saying is "Countering Witch Time is easy and risk-free!" because that move is absurdly good. However, there are going to be attacks that are not AS risky to use, relatively speaking. Still a danger getting countered, but, grabs (which won't interact at all unless you start the grab before she starts Witch Time, which means you'll grab her during startup), or frame 3 and faster jabs (which would trigger Bat Within instead) are harder to Witch Time than other moves.

Re: Bayonetta's TETSUZANKOOOO F-throw

Some "kill throws" ARE designed to be the "we've gotten this far, let's just use it" type. Marth's up throw, Bowser's forward throw (still the strongest f-throw in the game or is it Bayonetta now?), Meta Knight, even Palutena to some extent. If Bayonetta's been having trouble killing her opponent, then at super high percents she has the extra option of forcing them towards the ledge and trying to land a grab.

It's also notable that f-throws tend to be the weakest kill throws in general, as if to say that the game prefers back to the wall reversal of fortune back throws more.

 

[Greward]

Unless you are a tether grabber, you should just be able to buffer another grab if she witch times to block a grab. Its a 45 frame commitment with 30+ frames where you can grab her after the invincibility wears off.

Bayo is invulnerable from frame 5-16 and most dash grabs do grab between 8-9.
Bat Within FAF is 45, most grabs end up within 36 and 39.
This would mean you have some advantage frames, but bayo will usually do the counter slightly faster than grabs so it makes up for that (since she's trying to counter something that is not a grab and usually has more range than a grab). It's a bit character dependant though.

If a dash grab does have a FAF over 38 it can effectively become a frame deficit option against a counter. Even when you get a frame advantage the back step might make up for it. It depends on the timing of both things though. But yeah, sometimes with some characters you should be able to punish it.

That's why I had "deal" in quotation marks, because as you said there isn't a perfect solution to it and at the end of the day the move is really, really good. What I'm never saying is "Countering Witch Time is easy and risk-free!" because that move is absurdly good. However, there are going to be attacks that are not AS risky to use, relatively speaking. Still a danger getting countered, but, grabs (which won't interact at all unless you start the grab before she starts Witch Time, which means you'll grab her during startup), or frame 3 and faster jabs (which would trigger Bat Within instead) are harder to Witch Time than other moves.

I see what you mean, but an important note is that Bayo won't use witch time in neutral that much. It's way more easy to read an attack when you got your opponent on the air than onstage when he can actually grab.
Having a good throw game is good tho, specially for killing.

Bowser fthrow is still the strongest, then pits or wario I think. Bayo is weight dependant and has a hard time killing heavy guys.

 

[Megamang]

Bayo using witch time, you whiffing a punish, then her returning to neutral is actually a decent situation since it alleviates the threat of WT, especially after 2 whiffs. It certainly is a good mechanic they decided to add because if it only got worse on successful triggering it would be totally ridiculous.

 

[bc1910]

No character can "not trigger witch time at all".
You are gonna throw attacks. No character can only use grabs.

 

[Megamang]

Can Ryu trigger it with D-tilt and instantly input DP to have invincibility throughout?

 

[Smog Frog]

what speed does witch time reduce you to?

 

[RedBeefBaron]

No counter play? Not buying it. As far as my main goes Diddy Kong is pretty great at beating witch time by confirming into damage and kills from outside its range with peels.

Also what's with all the talk of it being unpunishable? If you bait it out she eats a full string or dies just like any other character who's counter just got read.

 

[|RK|]

How does she not deal with shield? U-throw combos exist, and u-throw and d-throw have various set-ups as well.
Also, shield is only threatening if your opponent can actually convert shielding your move into something, everything from bayo is safe so she doesn't really care if she just hits your shield with 10 bairs or d-tilts until it pokes lol.

Okay, I wasn't aware of her throw combos. Thanks!

 

[Megamang]

RedBeefBaron While WT is obviously a good move, I think a part of the salt comes from the fact that dying to it feels so bad. While Bayo has kill moves, she isn't shoryu'ing you so you see your death coming for a while be it spaced bairs, or a drawn out gimp... then suddenly everything changes, you have already died but you have to sit there and pretend you have an option while she full charges her smash. It is a pretty disheartening way to die, as is any kill confirm. This game felt so safe at first, but as we got better and DLC characters got added its actually pretty perilous. The only thing that feels safer is being grabbed by Diddy =]

 

[Radical Larry]

Rizen Hey, it may take some time, but with Izaw finally showing Link's high potential, Link can no longer be considered a low tier character, and the results say it now. Link has the potential to place very well in a large tournament (is BEAST 6 a National, International or Major?), so if he's going anywhere on the next tier list, it would have to be at least middle tier. More of his results will also show later on, but this is a big step.

It's something that settles me down finally, and hopefully when EVO comes, Izaw can attend the tournament and do this performance again, if not better. I'll even try making it there now, since I know Link can do better than just top 10. Oh, and that reminds me of something...to do...later...

what speed does witch time reduce you to?

I think it's 1/4 speed or a speed akin to the TImer being activated.

 

[Amadeus9]

Rizen Hey, it may take some time, but with Izaw finally showing Link's high potential, Link can no longer be considered a low tier character, and the results say it now. Link has the potential to place very well in a large tournament (is BEAST 6 a National, International or Major?), so if he's going anywhere on the next tier list, it would have to be at least middle tier. More of his results will also show later on, but this is a big step.

It's something that settles me down finally, and hopefully when EVO comes, Izaw can attend the tournament and do this performance again, if not better. I'll even try making it there now, since I know Link can do better than just top 10. Oh, and that reminds me of something...to do...later...



I think it's 1/4 speed or a speed akin to the TImer being activated.

1 result

character is now viable

Classic larry

 

[Radical Larry]

1 result

character is now viable

Classic larry

It's hilarious that you say that. Don't you remember Doctor Mario's single result way back when and people thought that he was more viable than they thought? That's only because he was pulled out in a few winning matches and was just a pocket.

But this result, BEAST 6, Izaw primarily used Link and no one else, right? And he still got put into the top ten. Even barring this, I've posted on the previous threads about two other tournaments; the Eclipse tournament, a European national tournament and the Umebura Niconico Qualifiers. Both had Link players who placed very well in those tournaments, but they're not as discussed as BEAST 6.

He has results, Amadeus, but you're not looking for them apparently.
And don't even SAY this quote anymore, because we know what happened with Doctor Mario and his hype.

 

[Megamang]

Lets keep talking about Bayo, or maybe even Corrin (it seems like swordsman players are liking him and getting good results) instead of falling into this cycle again.

Though it seems like most streams I open are bayo dittos and this is wearing the character thin for some people. In general I find dittos boring, in fighting games, in starcraft, in pokemon, because the point of games is to see how your tools compare to theirs and dittos are just so meh in that. I was laughing when the punish for a missed Witch Twist was a Witch Twist though.

Also, Ranai and 9B were SDIing intensely, I didn't see them get killed off the roof once! Confirms still lead into damaging combos, but they were organic, flowing, and escapable. No double WTwist off the ceiling at 50, no silly confirms at all really.

One thing that sucks about Bayo's properties is that if you are going for a double ABK combo, you don't get the ABK if you miss... so flying offstage as they SDI'd down often lead to a total reversal of who was at advantage. This means offstage, downwards SDI might be a safe escape option, or at least reverse the risk reward for Bayo's usual shenanigans since if you go down she usually divekicks to get you, but if you're offstage, that presents its own problems.


EDIT: Radical Larry ... the hype died down and he got placed fairly low on the tier list?

 

[TTTTTsd]

Doc's hype was because he was horribly underrated as a low tier character. Nobody smart argued that he wasn't low tier, everybody simply said "Wow a lot of people kept saying bottom 10 (in extreme cases it was bottom 5) and it doesn't look like they were right!"

I don't think anybody said Doc was solo viable in tournament at all. He's only ever been usable as a secondary.

 

[Fex13]

Lets keep talking about Bayo, or maybe even Corrin (it seems like swordsman players are liking him and getting good results) instead of falling into this cycle again.

Though it seems like most streams I open are bayo dittos and this is wearing the character thin for some people. In general I find dittos boring, in fighting games, in starcraft, in pokemon, because the point of games is to see how your tools compare to theirs and dittos are just so meh in that. I was laughing when the punish for a missed Witch Twist was a Witch Twist though.

Also, Ranai and 9B were SDIing intensely, I didn't see them get killed off the roof once! Confirms still lead into damaging combos, but they were organic, flowing, and escapable. No double WTwist off the ceiling at 50, no silly confirms at all really.

One thing that sucks about Bayo's properties is that if you are going for a double ABK combo, you don't get the ABK if you miss... so flying offstage as they SDI'd down often lead to a total reversal of who was at advantage.


EDIT: Radical Larry ... the hype died down and he got placed fairly low on the tier list?

corrin is a very solid character that i would put into top 20 for sure.
and one thing to note, corrin's speed isnt as bad as people make it out to be. people always call things bad if your character isnt top 10 in that specific trait. if you watch ryuga vs ally/zinoto, you can see that if you use the right options and move well, corrin doesnt look slow at all. people need to realise that. having a very mediocre running speed isnt as terrible in this game as people want it to be as long as you have tools to play around that. that is what's important, and corrin definitely does have those.

 

[Radical Larry]

Megamang Right, but that's...
TTTTTsd ...because yes, Doc was a secondary. However, Link in this tournament wasn't a secondary. He was a solo main and in that tournament, he seemed solo viable.

Link could be the "Low Tier Hero" that finally came out of the shop. And who's to say Link won't make even better results again?

 

[MistressRemilia]

It's hilarious that you say that. Don't you remember Doctor Mario's single result way back when and people thought that he was more viable than they thought? That's only because he was pulled out in a few winning matches and was just a pocket.

But this result, BEAST 6, Izaw primarily used Link and no one else, right? And he still got put into the top ten. Even barring this, I've posted on the previous threads about two other tournaments; the Eclipse tournament, a European national tournament and the Umebura Niconico Qualifiers. Both had Link players who placed very well in those tournaments, but they're not as discussed as BEAST 6.

He has results, Amadeus, but you're not looking for them apparently.
And don't even SAY this quote anymore, because we know what happened with Doctor Mario and his hype.

Dr.Mario made a jump from Bottom tier to Low Tier because successful counterpick use at Top Level of a major tournament is better than anything a bottom tier would have done, but he didn't rise further in people's mind, the highest was usually MidLow tier, thanks to a niche in the metagame to beat a few important characters.

It's a different rise you're talking about here: Low tier from High Tier.
You want your character to enter in the realm of character who can almost reliably place in major tournaments. While Isaw's performance was pretty good in Beast 6, the lack of the big names of America besides Esam & MVD, and the lack of Japanese players made it a bit easier for Isaw to place: Beast 6 isn't really a major.
We could take his placement at Genesis 3 for example, he drowned sadly, which isn't his fault really, but just that Link isn't that amazing of a character, he struggles vs a good amount of character, and he had the misfortune to be against good players of said characters, ultimately leading into him not placing in Genesis 3.

We could talk for hours about the little wins of each character in tournaments: A Dedede got Top 32 at Beast 6 too, A Ganondorf player won a tournament that had a good amount of player at the same time, etc. What matters the most is how said players that can carry their character at that type of tournaments will do once they participate in the big majors such as EVO. And sadly for Link, he hasn't done good in majors so far.

 

[Amadeus9]

Corrins nair is absolutely rage inducing. its a contender for one of the best moves in the game. he can do so much nonsense with it.

oh also he has a frame 7 move that does 19% and kills at like 70

 

[Radical Larry]

Corrins nair is absolutely rage inducing. its a contender for one of the best moves in the game. he can do so much nonsense with it.

oh also he has a frame 7 move that does 19% and kills at like 70

Actually, he can't do much if N-Air is blocked. It's very unsafe on block.

And which move are you referring to?

 

[Rizen]

I'm going to reiterate an early post. Sorry for repeating.

Welcome back Shaya !

IMO the list looks pretty good but I'd have Link 1 tier higher. The reasoning is while he's not a national threat (getting 97th and 65th at genesis 3 iirc), he does have results regionally. Like Scizor in SoCal placing 35th out of 499
http://paragon.challonge.com/la_2015_smash4_singles
4th out of 113
http://challonge.com/SBACSingles
Zane the pure in Texas getting several placings like 17 out of 118.
http://tloc.challonge.com/SW61
Unknown getting 3rd out of 65 in VA
http://rvaforge.challonge.com/bcocugj5
We also have PRed Links.
http://smashboards.com/threads/link-social-the-triforce-of-doin-work.370194/page-357#post-20817415
to name just a few; sorry to skip people but I'd rather post a link than copy the whole tourney results thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/link-tournament-results-thread-25th-october.404196/

I have trouble seeing Link below characters like Mewtwo and Kirby.

This too

Spoiler

http://smashboards.com/threads/link-tournament-results-thread-25th-october.404196/
like Scizor getting 33ed out of 499 at paragon
Paragon Los Angeles 2015 September 5-6
Scizor/ 33rd out of 499
http://paragon.challonge.com/la_2015_smash4_singles
Rooky in RI
Super Smash Con 2015 August 8th 2015
Rooky 17th out of 755
http://supersmashcon.challonge.com/wiiusingles
Lord Xav1er was doing a lot but I haven't heard from him in some time.
@kxiong92 (Requiem) is doing great in MI, iirc he might be PRed there.

Radical Larry
Link has had results for a long time. It's nothing new. I've said Link should be F tier in the current placing based on the OP. The thing is, pretty much what @Thinkman said is spot on. Some characters have to try harder. If you look at top tier results like Villager, Ness you see a lot of them in the top 8. You look at middle tiers and see DK getting some pretty good results from players like M2K and Will. Grenja, Ike, Megaman, Pac Man all get some good rep even from E tier. SSB4 has good balance. While I do think Link is underrated I can't see him above characters in E tier.

I don't see his results being as high or many as these characters. His tools aren't as good either, for example take Pac Mac vs Link Pac has a better recovery, better movement and frame data with frame 3 Nair, 4 jab, 5 jumpsquat etc vs Link's frame 7 fastest ground move, frame 6 fastest air move and frame 7 jumpsquat. They're playing the same kind of game. Pac is better. I just can't see Link on par with Pac man in theory or results. It boils down to that SOMEONE has to be labeled worse.

I've been watching high level play like ZeRo vs Ranai here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9p9ZCoeYXg&list=PL5n6M_nMn9OOkkI-ZAjzEsw4ebSI6JhdQ&index=19
and the top 32 of Genesis 3. Just watch the match, Link can't keep up with the top tiers at high levels. He's not a good enough character.

TBH I'm kind of fed up with Link players' big heads atm lol. So that's just my view as a counterpoint.

 

[Amadeus9]

Actually, he can't do much if N-Air is blocked. It's very unsafe on block.

And which move are you referring to?

If playing into shield u can just fh nair instead then pin ground, or literally anything. The move has such ridiculous utility, it's completely bonkers. Practically an autowin neutral button.

Refering to neutral b, no charge shot to partial charge bite, 2% + 17% with increased KBG, can be comboed into

 

[Sonicninja115]

I was trying to point out some non ridiculous aspects of the character, more than I was trying to actually say she is below average in anything. I agree she is amazing.

Speaking of edgeguarding, how does she challenge vanish? WTing the first hitbox leaves you with an invisible invincible shiek for the duration until and invincible snap, assuming shiek does everything correctly.

Witch Twist doesn't catch you from her OOS or boxing range if you are spacing decently. Of course its gonna score some ridiculous confirms, thats its job, but it doesn't totally cover a CQC game, in my experience so far.


Also, what in neutral confirms into these ridiculous combos? All the combos I see start from either a poorly spaced dtilt, or some form of side or up B, which aren't great neutral tools. People are letting Bayonetta get away with HS in neutral, but thats silly and she shouldn't be using that in that way.

I don't think wasting witch time to land laglessly is a good choice, you only get a few before they aren't as good.

She does have a ridiculous RPS game where anyone trying to deal with her neutral in a certain way can get WTed, yet you can't over respect her or you die to other tools. Im just wondering how she deals with obnoxious safety like shiek and ZSS can barrage with, or crazy grab games like Ness,

Nair does combo into Dtilt before 20%. That is a really good way to get a combo started.

I still don't get how she deals with shields and SDI. Her "kill throw" won't kill Kirby at the edge with decent DI at 130% (IIRC).

Witch Time is crazy though.

How easy is it to SDI Twist? I have tried it, and it wasn't easy for me, although I have never practiced SDI. I haven't seen any top player that utilizes SDI (ZeRo) use it to get out of it. All I have seen are videos from the reportedly best SDI'ers. Is it really just another thing as simple as foxtrotting to do?

 

[epicnights]

I'm not sure if this will make much actual sense once it's completely written out, but I'd like to give my opinion of Link's placement in the metagame.

As a character, Link is certainly not one of the best, but he's not bad by any means at all. In fact, I feel like Link's attributes and moveset can help build strong fundamentals of smash. As a character, Link has:

• Disjoint. Link's large, sweeping tilts and smashes help the player build and define a foundation of proper disjoint use in grounded fighting, spacing enough where Link's hurtbox is out of range but the hitbox is still a threat.
• Lingering hitboxes. Link's nair, Dair, and u-air all have long lasting hitboxes, lasting 25, 51, and 30 frames respectively. They help teach the player how to cover defensive options using lasting hitboxes.
• Projectiles. Link's assortment of very different projectiles help teach the player how to use projectiles to create temporarily extended areas of stage control, whether they be thrown items, directional projectiles, or fixed trajectory projectiles.
• Recovery. Link's tether, up-b, and ability to use bombs to refresh up-b off stage create a flexible, yet strict recovery capability. It is flexible in the sense that it is able to be wildly varied to great success, yet strict in the sense that carelessness will quickly lead to a failed recovery. It teaches the player how to properly mitigate offstage recovery and exploit a character's recovery range to the fullest.
• Air superiority. Link has the greatest fast fall speed increase in the game, going from an average 1.6 to a stunning 3.04, a 90% increase in fall speed. This gives Link the third fastest fast fall speed behind Dedede and Fox. This helps teach the player how to properly use fast falling to return to the ground in order to regain jumps and continue aerial pressure and dominance. It also works in tandem with the previous four points to establish a strong neutral and edgeguarding game.

There's a reason that most local scenes have a high-level/scrub-stomper player who mains Link. Playing the character may not guarantee high placings, but it builds the fundamentals that make a good player.

 

[Megamang]

About SDI: It requires faster input that foxtrotting, but isn't as precise. Make sure you are using quarter circle mashing, its the fastest way to get down and away from Witch Twist. It isn't exactly twitch reactions though, you know when you are getting bayo combo'd and the SDI will both move you away a little from any hit and send you in the right regular DI direction, so any bit helps, while more is almost always better. (I say almost because there might be weird situations, such as you were going to be sent out flat horizontally to escape but instead launched even more down into divekick territory. Not sure that one can happen, just an example of her varied combo options making it so you can't always choose right/there is no universally safe escape. Escaping Witch Twist is a solid place to start though, its a huge part of all her huge combos, especially the death ones)

 

[Radical Larry]

If playing into shield u can just fh nair instead then pin ground, or literally anything. The move has such ridiculous utility, it's completely bonkers. Practically an autowin neutral button.

Refering to neutral b, no charge shot to partial charge bite, 2% + 17% with increased KBG, can be comboed into

Oh, I can tell you that Neutral B stuff was what I said about it, except the "combo into" part. I think it's one of the perfect kill moves since the uncharged projectile > fully charged bite can succeed, since opponents will be in electric stun for so long that it will work. It's very silly.

I'm not sure if this will make much actual sense once it's completely written out, but I'd like to give my opinion of Link's placement in the metagame.

As a character, Link is certainly not one of the best, but he's not bad by any means at all. In fact, I feel like Link's attributes and moveset can help build strong fundamentals of smash. As a character, Link has:

• Disjoint. Link's large, sweeping tilts and smashes help the player build and define a foundation of proper disjoint use in grounded fighting, spacing enough where Link's hurtbox is out of range but the hitbox is still a threat.
• Lingering hitboxes. Link's nair, Dair, and u-air all have long lasting hitboxes, lasting 25, 51, and 30 frames respectively. They help teach the player how to cover defensive options using lasting hitboxes.
• Projectiles. Link's assortment of very different projectiles help teach the player how to use projectiles to create temporarily extended areas of stage control, whether they be thrown items, directional projectiles, or fixed trajectory projectiles.
• Recovery. Link's tether, up-b, and ability to use bombs to refresh up-b off stage create a flexible, yet strict recovery capability. It is flexible in the sense that it is able to be wildly varied to great success, yet strict in the sense that carelessness will quickly lead to a failed recovery. It teaches the player how to properly mitigate offstage recovery and exploit a character's recovery range to the fullest.
• Air superiority. Link has the greatest fast fall speed increase in the game, going from an average 1.6 to a stunning 3.04, a 90% increase in fall speed. This gives Link the third fastest fast fall speed behind Dedede and Fox. This helps teach the player how to properly use fast falling to return to the ground in order to regain jumps and continue aerial pressure and dominance. It also works in tandem with the previous four points to establish a strong neutral and edgeguarding game.

There's a reason that most local scenes have a high-level/scrub-stomper player who mains Link. Playing the character may not guarantee high placings, but it builds the fundamentals that make a good player.

Also, very good summaries. What ranking would you put in Link, then? Or is this merely only fundamentals and not for placement?

 

[Fex13]

Corrins nair is absolutely rage inducing. its a contender for one of the best moves in the game. he can do so much nonsense with it.

oh also he has a frame 7 move that does 19% and kills at like 70

i would actually say side-b is better than nair and is a top 10 move in the game.

 

[epicnights]

Also, very good summaries. What ranking would you put in Link, then? Or is this merely only fundamentals and not for placement?

I couldn't tell you exactly what his placement is due to other characters that may have equal or higher capabilities, however I can say who I believe is better than him, as that's a more cut-and-dry category than who is equal or worse than him.

Confidently, I can say all of these characters are stronger than Link in the current meta:

That's 30 characters, placing him 31st out of 58, putting him either at the end of E tier or replacing Roy as the highest F tier.

Keep in mind that the list above is only indicative of their placement in the meta. Whether or not Link has a positive, equal, or negative matchup against any of these characters is another topic for another time.

 

[Luco]

Not really sure if this gets Link out of low tier. Yes he did well in a national. G&W had 2 top 32 placings at EVO (this is old news but still). Wii Fit Trainer has had consistent top 32's at multiple levels. Pugwest is getting top 8s and as evidenced by those tournament on the weekend he got a top 3. Tweek is still getting strong results with Bowser Jr.

Don't know if Link deserves to be higher, but if he does these guys probably need to move up first.

 

[Amadeus9]

i would actually say side-b is better than nair and is a top 10 move in the game.

side b is pretty busted too

Corrin is like this odd quagmire of extremely strong moves tied to really average ones on a meh spec body

 

[KenMeister]

1 result

character is now viable

Classic larry

Hey now, same could be said for Greninja while we're at it. Lol

 

[Megamang]

As it should be! Why are really amazing moves usually tied to speed demons in smash? Why doesn't poor ol zelda get a falco laser or a jump cancellable shine?

 

[thehard]

I truly feel like Sheik's the only character Greninja really has to worry about and his mains should probably be pooling all their efforts to figuring that one out (if they aren't already). I think his abilities are sufficient in any other matchup.

What are Greninja's best tools vs. Sheik? What's the optimal way to play against her?