2008-2009 School Year Discussion

[GoldShadow]

Basic analytical thinking and critical reading and writing skills would make people much more able to do things like understand political arguments, debates, and world events. Math, that's a stretch. Everyone should know some basic math but really, verbal ability is crucial.

For the record, I'm a molecular and cell biology major and I strongly believe that people (especially Americans) need a much stronger science background. The number of people who don't believe in evolution is appalling (there's that thread in the DH which I refuse to look at, because I know I will just become irritated with the anti-evolutionist evangelicals). The number of people who don't understand how basic medical science works is unacceptable.

But if people were better at verbal reasoning and comprehension, they could understand those things better as well when they heard or read about them (about science and technology I mean).

I read somewhere that the average local newspaper is written at an 8th-grade level (ie, 8th graders can comprehend it). Other newspapers are written at higher (11-12th grade levels), such as the NYT and WSJ. I believe that all newspapers should be written at at least a post-high-school level; people would understand world events that much better. People might also actually want to read about these events.

In an ideal world, everybody would have excellent reading ability and everything would be written like the Economist or something. Familiarity with world, local, and national events would be very high. People would make better decisions (politically and personally) as a result.

 

[Roihu]

Oh god, I'm fighting the urge to type up an essay about why math is more important and relevant to your lives than pretty much anything else no matter what you're going to do in life. Second in line was an essay explaining why you NEED those 12+ years of education in order to do anything worthwhile in the world.



When you stop working at McDonalds.

Seriously kids, this isn't the 40s. You can't just be a self made man anymore without an education. It doesn't work that way. And what's with people still thinking that "Scientists" are a real profession? What, do you still believe that engineers drive trains too?

Don't you have any curiosity as to how the world works? Don't you want to try and better it or change it in any way? If you plan on doing it with words, good luck. Unless your personal profile is beyond brilliant, no one's going to give you a passing glance without a degree, and no one GOOD will even give you the time of day without something from a respected university.

Oh no, it's happening. The essay it writing itself without my consent. I'm stopping now before I sound like I'm 60, but just know that some of you guys sound like you're still 10 from my prospective. I send a warning, you better learn to like school, because it's necessary to get anywhere in life.

Still counts as school related.
Seriously, when are you gonna use it OUTSIDE of school?
Edit: I can understand basic math and stuff, but Algebra is just unnecessary.

 

[GoldShadow]

I think a lot of people miss the point of having school.

Lavos is certainly right about one thing; you need all those years of education to be successful.

Why?

It's not because you'll necessarily "need" to know all those things you learn. Seriously. Ask me something about my 9th grade "Modern European History" class. The only thing I remember from that class is the name Charlemagne. I honestly couldn't tell you anything else about medieval Europe. Or let's go back to pre-calculus and calculus. Ask me how to find the sum of a converging series, and I wouldn't be able to tell you. I don't remember, and I'll probably never have to use it again. Ask me about 11th grade American Literature and who the writers of the Harlem Renaissance were, and I won't be able to tell you.

It's not the facts themselves that are important. School is important for the skills it teaches you. Taking all those classes forces you to become a better reader, a better thinker, a better analyzer. It forces you to learn how to study, how to read, how to digest and comprehend new material.

Those skills come up again and again through life. If you go to college or grad school, obviously. When you get a new job and have to learn new skills. When your employer gives you new training to perform your job. Schooling gives you the ability to be successful at many of those things.

 

[Rusty Shacklefurd]

... you better learn to like school...

ILIKESCHOOL!
Just starting at BCIT this week, and so far I've learned that several optional courses I took in high school are ones that are covered in the robotics program, so I can pretty much coast in most of my courses for the first couple weeks because I already know most of what's being taught! Yay school!

 

[Keblerelf]

I just had my first day today and got my new AP physics book~!

1714 numbered pages. Awesome.

I hope i enjoy my last year of HS =/

 

[Roihu]

I think a lot of people miss the point of having school.

Lavos is certainly right about one thing; you need all those years of education to be successful.

Why?

It's not because you'll necessarily "need" to know all those things you learn. Seriously. Ask me something about my 9th grade "Modern European History" class. The only thing I remember from that class is the name Charlemagne. I honestly couldn't tell you anything else about medieval Europe. Or let's go back to pre-calculus and calculus. Ask me how to find the sum of a converging series, and I wouldn't be able to tell you. I don't remember, and I'll probably never have to use it again. Ask me about 11th grade American Literature and who the writers of the Harlem Renaissance were, and I won't be able to tell you.

It's not the facts themselves that are important. School is important for the skills it teaches you. Taking all those classes forces you to become a better reader, a better thinker, a better analyzer. It forces you to learn how to study, how to read, how to digest and comprehend new material.

Those skills come up again and again through life. If you go to college or grad school, obviously. When you get a new job and have to learn new skills. When your employer gives you new training to perform your job. Schooling gives you the ability to be successful at many of those things.

Well, you're right, I guess. You've made it so that I can't really contradict what you've said except with only one thing:
Why Math?

I just had my first day today and got my new AP physics book~!

1714 numbered pages. Awesome.

I hope i enjoy my last year of HS =/

...
I would personally be pretty pissed.

 

[Lavos]

Still counts as school related.
Seriously, when are you gonna use it OUTSIDE of school?
Edit: I can understand basic math and stuff, but Algebra is just unnecessary.

...

Algebra of all things is unnecessary!? Algebra is the point in math where it begins to become truly relevant! Don't you ever want to be able to compare your interest rates on a loan without hiring someone? Almost everything money related requires algebra!

I have a better idea! You tell me what you plan on doing in life, and I'll tell you what level of math you're going to need to be able to do.


On topic:
I'm in my sophomore year of College at Purdue. I'm taking differential equations with linear algebra. Honestly, I think now is the point where my math is starting to become somewhat excessive. But truth be told, I thought that last year when I took Calc 3 and I found out I was really wrong. I'm also taking advanced C programming, linear circuit analysis, Electromagnetic interactions, and biology. My schedule sucks reeeeally bad.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

[complaint about "when will I use blah]
When you stop working at McDonalds.

Oh. Snap. lulz

Even in my Geography class, we use math. And in Digital Video Production. And in Marine Biology. And in Tai Chi. And every day life.

 

[Darkslash]

Pretty much you need math to live. Every thing involves numbers. Yes including the internet.

 

[GoldShadow]

...

Algebra of all things is unnecessary!? Algebra is the point in math where it begins to become truly relevant! Don't you ever want to be able to compare your interest rates on a loan without hiring someone? Almost everything money related requires algebra!

I have a better idea! You tell me what you plan on doing in life, and I'll tell you what level of math you're going to need to be able to do.


On topic:
I'm in my sophomore year of College at Purdue. I'm taking differential equations with linear algebra. Honestly, I think now is the point where my math is starting to become somewhat excessive. But truth be told, I thought that last year when I took Calc 3 and I found out I was really wrong. I'm also taking advanced C programming, linear circuit analysis, Electromagnetic interactions, and biology. My schedule sucks reeeeally bad.

Hm... engineer? Electrical engineer? That's rough!

I've taken math through calc II and I think that calculus is very cool, and much more relevant to real life than many other classes. But I'm not sure the general population needs it too much. People in finance and business should definitely know calc.

I'm now taking statistics (which, at the intro level, is not real math at all), and while easy, is definitely useful; especially for the biological and medical sciences (which is where I'm headed).

 

[Roihu]

...

Algebra of all things is unnecessary!? Algebra is the point in math where it begins to become truly relevant! Don't you ever want to be able to compare your interest rates on a loan without hiring someone? Almost everything money related requires algebra!

I have a better idea! You tell me what you plan on doing in life, and I'll tell you what level of math you're going to need to be able to do.

Not sure yet. That's the only reason I'm taking Algebra II and doing good in all my classes. If nothing else comes up, I'll take a job as a doctor or something.

 

[Lavos]

Not sure yet. That's the only reason I'm taking Algebra II and doing good in all my classes. If nothing else comes up, I'll take a job as a doctor or something.

I'm pretty sure you don't just get to "take" a job as a doctor. In fact, I'm positive you're going to go to school for a long time where you will need a lot of math in order to understand the chemistry they'll teach you so that you can understand the biology they teach you so they you can properly understand the workings of the human body, so that whatever hospital you end up at doesn't become a morgue. (Yeah, run on sentences are awesome!)

I'd guess at least calc 2.

 

[GoldShadow]

Eh, docs will be able to get by with algebra and some physics; calc can help with the physics. Radiologists would benefit most from the physics.

Lavos is right about not being able to just "get a job as a doctor". But once you start seriously looking at careers and jobs and professions, I think you'll quickly realize what it takes to choose one path or another and how much work some careers require and how much some compensate you.

What I'm saying is, it doesn't really matter until you start to seriously think about what you want to do with your life.

 

[Lavos]

Yeah, he could probably get by, but there's no school that just wants their doctors to be able to "get by". They want their doctors to be way overkill. He may only need a little calc, but he's going to have to pass much higher classes than the bare minimum.

I definitely know that if I were hiring the doctor, I would take the one who knew calc over the one who was just getting by.

 

[GoldShadow]

I take it you're not familiar with medical school or the becoming-a-doctor process!

All but 1 or 2 medical schools require math through calculus II. Virtually nothing a doctor does requires a working knowledge of calculus. I guarantee you that it would make no difference whether a doctor had taken calculus or not. It's just not relevant to what they do and has no effect on their abilities as a clinician.

 

[Roihu]

I'm in honors and plan on taking AP classes in the future. I'm sure I could "take" a job as a doctor considering I have 4 more years of High School left in me.
Edit: Hmm.... That sounded like a ******* talking... Sorry 'bout that.

 

[M@v]

currently in my 1st year @ Penn State main campus. No complaints. It definately was a huge change starting college, but I like it a lot. Ill probably be crying when the first batch of tests smack me though =P

 

[~rh]

1am... still didn't do my AP World HW.

I guess Ill just wake up at 6 and do it. I have no quizzes tomorrow and the 3 hour block of boredom is also tomorrow. Sleeping opportunity ;]

 

[GoldShadow]

I'm in honors and plan on taking AP classes in the future. I'm sure I could "take" a job as a doctor considering I have 4 more years of High School left in me.

What you do in high school has no effect on that kind of thing, at all.

 

[M@v]

lol...high school has nothing to do with your career...it merely gets you to college. The better you do, the better college you can go to.(Penn State main ftw for me )THERE you get ready for a career you want.

 

[nakedsnake]

just finished my first week of school and now I am ready to sit back play some video games and just rest.

 

[Cease Tick]

Hey Ryu you're in Bowie? What school are you in?

 

[Roihu]

What you do in high school has no effect on that kind of thing, at all.

Seriously?
Those *******s keep telling lies. First they tell me Algebra is important, and they tell me that you need good grades in school to be a doctor.
The *******s. >.>

 

[GoldShadow]

You need good grades in college. Period.

Obviously, if you do well in high school and prepare yourself for college, it will help you (but not guarantee that you will) do well in college. If someone slacks off in high school, they're probably not going to get their act together in college.

You seem like a good person and a good student, but don't think you're entitled to things just because you're doing well in high school. Outside of high school, it means nothing; you'll have to prove yourself all over again when you graduate.

I know a lot of people who were the "academic stud" of their high school, got great grades, took advanced classes, got into good colleges... then found out that college work can actually be pretty hard. I also know people like that who continued to do well in college. Case in point, HS and college are radically different; doing well in HS does not automatically mean someone will do well in college (though the two certainly are correlated).

 

[Deleted member]

Nevermind, this is a bit OT.

 

[Roihu]

You need good grades in college. Period.

Obviously, if you do well in high school and prepare yourself for college, it will help you (but not guarantee that you will) do well in college. If someone slacks off in high school, they're probably not going to get their act together in college.

You seem like a good person and a good student, but don't think you're entitled to things just because you're doing well in high school. Outside of high school, it means nothing; you'll have to prove yourself all over again when you graduate.

I know a lot of people who were the "academic stud" of their high school, got great grades, took advanced classes, got into good colleges... then found out that college work can actually be pretty hard. I also know people like that who continued to do well in college. Case in point, HS and college are radically different; doing well in HS does not automatically mean someone will do well in college (though the two certainly are correlated).

Ah, well, sucks for me, I guess.
Hopefully I can find something to take me out of college. One can only hope...

 

[The Boss of God]

I have 4 AP classes.

 

[nakedsnake]

I have 4 AP classes.

I have 2 and I can barely manage

 

[Darkwashu]

Theres a kid in my class named Geno.

 

[Mahjix]

Depending on the school and your social life, school can be quite dull. I went through 3 different highschools, none of which I enjoyed. Then college came. That didn't go well either. -_-
Hopefully this next college I'm attending will be a little more interesting.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I'm not even going to uni.

What I learned was it doesn't matter what grades you get, it matters on how much the teachers like you. I got top grades in all the bottom classes, due to the fact that the grade I got the year before was actually higher than the grade I could get that year. Instead of getting moved up like I was supposed to, I got moved down a class due to the fact that the teacher never liked me.

That's quite sad, people actually went out of their way to try to ruin my life. What's worse is it's people in their 30's-50's, trying to ruin the life of a young teenage boy.

Anyway the point is, it doesn't matter what grades you get, unless you bend over when the teachers tell you too, you're not going to uni.

 

[Thrillhouse-vh.]

[/facepalm]

I'm confident it's because they have nothing better to do

 

[Lavos]

Well Pluvia, that's just part of the game of school. It doesn't change in college/University, in fact, it might just get worse. You jump through the teachers hoops and they give out free points. Somehow I doubt that the teachers just gave you poor grades because they didn't like you. If you seriously think that's the case, take it up with the principal.

It's one thing if the teacher tells you how they want work done, and then you don't do it that way.

But it's a completely different story if you are delivering the right work and you're getting worse grades for no real reason.

Get that jerk fired if he's docking points for personal preference.

 

[slave1]

Anyway the point is, it doesn't matter what grades you get, unless you bend over when the teachers tell you too, you're not going to uni.

this is only half true. you just had a sucky situation. and yes it is way lame when teachers do that to you.

anyways, I went to Alta High and my school rocked. we had way cool lunch ladies. the people were awesome. the teachers were friggen amazing. our foot ball team took state. our swim team took state. and we just owned all. I loved my high school. but college is even better. except out foot ball team kinda sucks and our band is even worse

 

[GoldShadow]

What I learned was it doesn't matter what grades you get, it matters on how much the teachers like you. I got top grades in all the bottom classes, due to the fact that the grade I got the year before was actually higher than the grade I could get that year. Instead of getting moved up like I was supposed to, I got moved down a class due to the fact that the teacher never liked me.

Like slave said, you had an unlucky situation. While some of that was certainly present in my high school, I would say it only described a small minority of teachers, definitely not the majority.

In college, I've experienced even less of that. None, actually. I'm sure it exists, but I believe it's generally less common.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

I know what everyone means by it's the minority, but it's extremely annoying when that minority happen to be your favourite and important subjects. I was going to type a long post giving the reasons to why I think they don't like me, but I realised I'm in a rush just now, so if no ones posted again in a few hours I'll come back and edit this post.

 

[~rh]

important lesson

I've learned this the good way. My parents had a good relationship with my Chem teacher last year and she hated eveyone. Except me. When they got Ds, I got Cs.

Even though I did equally terrible.

Now I have to build relationships with my Physics teacher and my AP Lang teacher this year D:

 

[The Fail Tracer]

This is strange. My teachers like me, but they still grade everyone, including me, fairly.

 

[Kiyosuki]

I don't miss a lot about high school, but I will say there are times I miss the stability and straightforwardness of it.

I'll tell you one thing though, if someone told me earlier that 90% of what you do in the K-12 system didn't even matter by the time you got to college, and in fact,you'd have to do a lot of it all over again for College this time....I'd have done a thing or two differently.

 

[~rh]

This is strange. My teachers like me, but they still grade everyone, including me, fairly.

In my schools it's the complete opposite. The kids who are pretty smart and get B's usually get Cs-Ds because of the way they act towards a teacher. Usually it's not even disrespectful, just a slight attitude every once in a while. You know, the kind of stuff you just don't like somone for.

And the teachers cover it up using the "participation grade' excuse.