11 Year Old Gives Birth On Wedding Day

[GoldShadow]

How dare these people have a different culture and morals from our own!!! Obviously, the American way is the only right and sensible way in a world filled with savages like these!!! (end sarcasm)

You're basically suggesting we follow moral relativism, which says that no one culture or its practices are better than another's.

This position is wrong, and you should be careful about supporting it.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

WTF is this What is this world coming to....

She's still not teen, I'm older(15 and a half) and still haven't got a gf yet.

 

[KevinM]

Meh, she seems secure in her decision, and she doesn't seem to be asking society for anything, so all the people who want to instill their arbitrary moral values in her life are seriously overstepping their boundaries.

My 2 cents.

You realize she is in fact 11 and in no way knows the gravity of her situation right?

 

[Teran]

You're basically suggesting we follow moral relativism, which says that no one culture or its practices are better than another's.

This position is wrong, and you should be careful about supporting it.

I think that's pretty much why we can't have peace in the world, because we're always sticking our noses into other countries' affairs. It doesn't matter though, it's not really a big issue.

As for the girl, I think she should be grateful she's still alive.

I'm not really bothered by the morals of what the boyfriend did, it's not my business and it's in no way going to affect my life. Let her life be ruined.

 

[BBQTV]

we should

A. wait a few years until they interview her or something

B. forget this and move on

 

[Yoshi]

A. wait a few years until they interview her or something

I doubt they'll interview her. Yes this is international news, but also bad P.R. on the world scale. I'm sure they people there will try and make this go away as soon as possible once another bigger story comes into play.

 

[Livvers]

i think most people will forget bout it and move onto the next "shocking" whatever.

 

[Teran]

Well the youngest mother ever was a 5 year old girl from Peru.

Her son was raised believing the girl was his sister until he was in his middle ages I believe.
That's a real story.

Nobody knew who the father was btw.

 

[SkylerOcon]

I would try to kick a few of you off your high horses, but then I might have to step down off of mine for a second.

 

[Aibou]

Well the youngest mother ever was a 5 year old girl from Peru.

Her son was raised believing the girl was his sister until he was in his middle ages I believe.
That's a real story.

Nobody knew who the father was btw.

I...I don't understand this. You're serious?

 

[1048576]

We sure have come a long way since we deemed it acceptable for people to conceive outside of their own race

How do you know this woman doesn't know the depth of her new responsibilities? I'd say that there are many cultures which cause women to mature (i.e. be capable of consent) by age 11. If both parties are offering consent, then what's the harm?

You all have a lot of arguments. None of them are any good. Unfortunately there's too many of you and I'm very lazy.

 

[Spire]

This is a bizarre good story. Doesn't bother me cause really, it's not bad. Good be to she and her husband. So long as they love eachother and he can support her so the child can grow and live, then great. Keep sending good vibes.

 

[Mic_128]

How do you know this woman doesn't know the depth of her new responsibilities?

First off, it's a girl. Not a woman.

Secondly, she called her baby "a new toy." Does that sound like something a parent who understands their responsibilities would say?

 

[Mota]

Seriuosly, after a week and they're in love? I don't think so.

The guy targeted someone young and vulnerable for his own f***ed up reasons, not love.

 

[KevinM]

Yeah basically they nailed it on the head.

She could be the most mature 11 year old in the world.

She's still 11 and has no life experiences in which to compare this to, to understand the gravity of this situation.

 

[Teran]

I...I don't understand this. You're serious?

Cross my heart and hope to die.

Also, I can pretty much guarantee she'd be a better mother than 50% of mothers I've seen anyway. For starters, she's not gonna be one of those whores with a cigarette in one hand and the baby in the other, I wouldn't imagine.

To be perfectly fair, there is no real gravity behind this situation. She's got a child. Big deal. Feed it, clothe it, let it scurry off to school. She has parents to help her, it's not that hard. This isn't the west remember, there are a lot of pressures she probably won't have to deal with.

Also, the age gap between her and her son is less than my mum and her youngest brother... =/

 

[Yoshi]

I think it's scary how the age gap between the father and mother is 8 years, only TWO years difference between the age gap of the mother, and the daughter, 11. That kind of creeps me out.

 

[GoldShadow]

I think that's pretty much why we can't have peace in the world, because we're always sticking our noses into other countries' affairs. It doesn't matter though, it's not really a big issue.

This is not entirely what I was talking about, but let me explain.

If we follow the idea that no one culture is better than another, it implies a few things:
1) Obviously, no one culture is better than another.
2) To find out what is right or wrong, a person should look to the rules of their own culture.
3) One culture cannot criticize the practices of another culture.
4) There is no such thing as social progress.

Think about it. If "right" and "wrong" are decided by a culture's own rules, and that we are not allowed to criticize other cultures, it means there was nothing wrong with Western countries having slaves, with Germany trying to eliminate Jews and others, that there's nothing wrong with the Sudanese government committing genocide in Darfur, that there's nothing wrong with North Korea's oppressive regime, with Saudi Arabia's oppression of women; because according to cultural relativism, we cannot criticize these countries. It's their culture and their rules.

Most importantly though, this notion of cultural relativism says that there's no such thing as "social progress". If we look back 150 years or 200 years at the United States, we see a country where Native Americans were slaughtered, blacks held to be subhuman, and women not allowed to vote. But we could not criticize this because those were the values of the culture at the time, and they were right for that culture. We cannot say that we are better off now than we were then.

And the whole idea of "social movements" would be bunk in cultural relativism. If a society truly believes in CR, it would not tolerate people who want change (because "change" implies that there's something wrong with a culture's values, and "wrong" implies that there are better ways of doing things, that not all value systems are equal); it would say that people are wrong to fight for equal rights for women, wrong to fight for equal rights for minorities, wrong to fight for equal rights for homosexuals. Think about that.


You're **** right I think not all cultures are equal and that we should not just let each culture do what they want. But don't mistake my position for a "everybody should do what America does" argument. That is most definitely not my stance.

How do you know this woman doesn't know the depth of her new responsibilities? I'd say that there are many cultures which cause women to mature (i.e. be capable of consent) by age 11. If both parties are offering consent, then what's the harm?

Cultures that force women to "mature" or "consent" exist, but that doesn't mean these girls are actually capable of such judgment. We have come a long way in many respects, and that includes neuroscience. An 11 year old girl does not know what these responsibilities entail, and she is not capable of legitimate consent. I'm not sure how you can believe this, seeing as how you're a very math/science oriented person.

 

[Brightside6382]

Are you serious? It has nothing to do with -American- morality. Pedophilia is pedophilia. People like you are why the child sex trade is on such a sharp rise. And by people like you, I mean people that actually think something like that is okay, so long as it's not on American Soil. Get real, dude.

lol you make me laugh. I just found it funny how you would condemn an entire society with one individuals decisions. I guess the USA must be filled with violent child killing fathers because yesterday I saw a report of a dad shooting his son in the head.

GoldShadow
That's a very wishy washy subject. How would do we go about deciding what's "right and wrong" for other cultures without degenerating into good ol' fashion colonization. We all know how good that turned out.

 

[GoldShadow]

GoldShadow
That's a very wishy washy subject. How would do we go about deciding what's "right and wrong" for other cultures without degenerating into good ol' fashion colonization. We all know how good that turned out.

This is the topic of a lot of discussions in philosophy, morality, ethics, socioeconomics, and international law.

It's basically the basis for all of human rights and most UN treaties and conventions. Yes, there's always a gray area, but that doesn't mean the entire subject is a gray area (ie, a lot of the time, we can figure out what is right/wrong, with a little bit of uncertainty, of course). I don't see where "good ol' fashioned colonization" comes in, though? The world is past that, what with decolonization and globalization and all.

 

[Sucumbio]

This speaks volumes about what kind of man he is, what kind of parents raised her, and what kind of society it is they live in that they even got as far as they did.

lol you make me laugh. I just found it funny how you would condemn an entire society with one individuals decisions. I guess the USA must be filled with violent child killing fathers because yesterday I saw a report of a dad shooting his son in the head.

I guess my statement -was- a bit generalized. Let me clarify.

"what kind of man he is" -> a pedofile.
"what kind of parents raised her" -> the kind that don't teach their kids to tell a person they trust when someone touches them where their bathing suit covers.
"what kind of society it is they live in that they even got as far as they did" -> a society that condones dating and/or marriage between a man and a child.

I tried to rationalize this by condemning Bulgaria as a 3rd world nation. Had that been the case, I'd not be the least bit surprised it happened. Yeah it'd still disgust me, but whatever, at least I could relax a bit on my moral pedestal because basically, whatever it's the 3rd world, who gives 2 flying F's, it's not like this happened in a properly developed nation, kinda thing.

But I went to wiki answers, lol

Is Bulgaria third world country?

No, it is a former member of the Eastern Bloc- it's standards of living and infrastructure are not of the same high standard as those of the West, but it's still classed as a 'developed' nation and is by no means Third World.



As for why I'm applying my moral values on someone else, thus judging them, well I hate to say it, that's what people do. That's what morals are... Murder is wrong not just cause I know it is, but because it's agreed by Society that it's wrong, and those that don't agree are in the vast minority, may even end up in jail because they're sociopaths (don't care if murder is wrong or right so they do it anyway) or psychopaths (enjoy murdering).

Pedophilia is wrong, not just because I think so, but because Society thinks so. There is a minority of people who either enjoy sex with kids (statutory ****), or wish to exact power (****). True he's facing some jail time. 6 whole years, lol Ok, at least he's not getting away with it totally. But my problem with Bulgaria is they were allowed to date for a year, obviously... I mean no one stopped them? Not the parents, not a neighbor, or... anyone! "Oh, this is my sister" his reply when someone asks why he's taking a child out on a date.

Maybe I'd feel better if the details -were- given. Then this mystery of how the hell this all came to pass would be unfolded, and the obvious gaps in logic and whatnot could be filled. As it sits now, it's a 19 yo dude who seduced an 11 yo child, knocked her up, and no one did a thing about it, until it was too late. And what -was- finally done about it, ends up sucking, cause now the kid won't have a father for up to 6 years. And who knows what ends up happening to him while in a Bulgarian prison. This is a lose lose all around. He must have been arrested in some attempt to salvage international dignity or something, but it's just a sad state of affairs for Bulgaria, for the people involved, and worst, the child. No, children. meh. I think I'm done with this topic, lol There's no real need to further propagate my stance, my mind is spoken, and for what it's worth, I feel really bad for 'mommy' and Violin or whatever her name is

 

[BBQTV]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MayDecemberRomance

 

[Quic]

Cross my heart and hope to die.

Also, I can pretty much guarantee she'd be a better mother than 50% of mothers I've seen anyway. For starters, she's not gonna be one of those whores with a cigarette in one hand and the baby in the other, I wouldn't imagine.


You're right, she's not aloud to buy cigarettes yet.


To be perfectly fair, there is no real gravity behind this situation. She's got a child. Big deal. Feed it, clothe it, let it scurry off to school. She has parents to help her, it's not that hard. This isn't the west remember, there are a lot of pressures she probably won't have to deal with.


Yes, some parents that girl must have giving their consent to marry an adult at age 11


Also, the age gap between her and her son is less than my mum and her youngest brother... =/

I think it's rediculous that people in here are fighting for the side of the girl on this one, regardless of culture, an 11 year old raising a kid while her husband is in jail(another really great/practical thing about this whole ordeal) is preposterous.

 

[BlackLightning90]

I usually thought women give birth atleast at the age of a teen.

 

[Teran]

This is not entirely what I was talking about, but let me explain.

If we follow the idea that no one culture is better than another, it implies a few things:
1) Obviously, no one culture is better than another.
2) To find out what is right or wrong, a person should look to the rules of their own culture.
3) One culture cannot criticize the practices of another culture.
4) There is no such thing as social progress.

Think about it. If "right" and "wrong" are decided by a culture's own rules, and that we are not allowed to criticize other cultures, it means there was nothing wrong with Western countries having slaves, with Germany trying to eliminate Jews and others, that there's nothing wrong with the Sudanese government committing genocide in Darfur, that there's nothing wrong with North Korea's oppressive regime, with Saudi Arabia's oppression of women; because according to cultural relativism, we cannot criticize these countries. It's their culture and their rules.

Most importantly though, this notion of cultural relativism says that there's no such thing as "social progress". If we look back 150 years or 200 years at the United States, we see a country where Native Americans were slaughtered, blacks held to be subhuman, and women not allowed to vote. But we could not criticize this because those were the values of the culture at the time, and they were right for that culture. We cannot say that we are better off now than we were then.

And the whole idea of "social movements" would be bunk in cultural relativism. If a society truly believes in CR, it would not tolerate people who want change (because "change" implies that there's something wrong with a culture's values, and "wrong" implies that there are better ways of doing things, that not all value systems are equal); it would say that people are wrong to fight for equal rights for women, wrong to fight for equal rights for minorities, wrong to fight for equal rights for homosexuals. Think about that.


You're **** right I think not all cultures are equal and that we should not just let each culture do what they want. But don't mistake my position for a "everybody should do what America does" argument. That is most definitely not my stance.

I wonder if you'd ever be up for talking about this on AIM.

I say this because the stuff I'd like to say in reply I don't want to post here, and no it isn't because they're rude or insulting.

Just well...

not something I want to post out here.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

BS.

I'm ready to play Russian Roulette...w/ a shotgun.

 

[Today]

That's really sad. The guy was 19 years old! He know he shouldn't have been having sex with an 11 year old. And she obviously knew nothing or how things like this worked..

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

I thought it was kinda sad, like it was part of a culture that existed in the world despite the disapproval of many.
But then I read on and found out it was pretty much statutory ****, and now those people are going to have with the consequnces.

I feel sorry for the baby

 

[Falcade]

This is ******!

 

[Nø Ca$h]

shes hot























































































































lol jk

 

[Mic_128]

lol infracted